Matthew Artz on Slate: Why Josh Rosen frightens the NFL.

In comment 13931271 ThatLimerickGuy said:

Quote:

Or just click on the twitter exchange with Vacchiano? The article is fascinating, especially the point made by Ross Tucker. The kid is going to be guaranteed 24 million dollars or so. What if he gets two concussions and decides it's not worth it anymore? Is the team going to call him out on it and come out looking like the big bully trying to force the kid to play with a concussion history or withhold his money? Imagine that dumb controversy. The Giants don't need that. Rosen to me is the perfect Jet. Let him bristle with the reporters and quit when the team sucks so that Jet land can continue spinning. We're above that noise. We need a reliable stud QB to move us into the next chapter of championship Giant football.

What if Mayfield gets two more concussions?

What if Darnold continues to throw the ball to the wrong team?

It's funny, when Eli first came here(and we weren't winning), his attitude was a terrible fit for NY because he had no fire. Then he started winning and he was a great fit because he's so even keeled and easy Eli. It's so stupid. The people that suggest it are stupid. All the kid needs to do is win football games and nothing else matters. Will he put us in the best position to win games for a long time? Hopefully.

In comment 13931273 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

we have our priorities out of whack. We likely aren’t getting another Eli in that regard but making it seem like Rosen will be the polar opposite and not a professional as just a massive leap in logic. I’d expect an actual criminal to give off these vibes.

its actually very important. We are fans...but the Giants run a business. Anything that can potentially effect the giants business negatively has to be considered.

You don't think someone will ask him about the Trump hat if he gets drafted here. Like do you plan on playing golf at the Trump Golf course. What if he says no way I hate that guy...regardless of your political beliefs I don't think the giants want to risk alienating some of there fan base.

Obviously talent trumps all, but when you factor in the injuries and the off the field stuff he doesn't seem like a prospect the giants would be willing to take a risk on...

Rosen is going to walk away becuase his daddy has money. What does that even mean?? Do parents just give their kids money when the kids don't work? Is he some kind of billionaire Kardashian kid that can live off family wealth? Why do people assume that his daddy will just give him all the family money? Is that really how this works in some peoples eyes?

In comment 13931273 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

we have our priorities out of whack. We likely aren’t getting another Eli in that regard but making it seem like Rosen will be the polar opposite and not a professional as just a massive leap in logic. I’d expect an actual criminal to give off these vibes.

We're not going to get another Eli. But aside from the concussions, the knock on Rosen is his personality. You probably feel differently, but Rosen came off as an impatient dick in that video (at a time when he knows he has to be on his best behavior). Deal breaker? Of course not. But he just played right into the criticism.

This is a big decision and the red flags around Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, and Allen will give most non desperate teams pause.
All the red flags can be garbage and all 4 have great careers but you can't deny that they are there.
At least these teams are going in eyes wide open.

In comment 13931279 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

In comment 13931271 ThatLimerickGuy said: Quote: Or just click on the twitter exchange with Vacchiano? The article is fascinating, especially the point made by Ross Tucker. The kid is going to be guaranteed 24 million dollars or so. What if he gets two concussions and decides it's not worth it anymore? Is the team going to call him out on it and come out looking like the big bully trying to force the kid to play with a concussion history or withhold his money? Imagine that dumb controversy. The Giants don't need that. Rosen to me is the perfect Jet. Let him bristle with the reporters and quit when the team sucks so that Jet land can continue spinning. We're above that noise. We need a reliable stud QB to move us into the next chapter of championship Giant football. How is this different then anybody else? Barkley, Chubb, Darnold, Rosen will all get the same money. What happens if they get 2 concussions and wanna retire? What a horrible hypothetical.

Having documented concussions and predicting concussions are two totally different things, aren't they?

because of concussions? Doesn't the NFL profess interest in making players aware about preparing for life after football? This stuff with Rosen is BS. If the Giants draft a QB, I hope it's him.

they are

I'll take Chubb or Barkley at 2 or trade down and get one of these guys or Nelson.

but, yeah, it could be a problem. The last QB that outspoken in NY was Namath, and look at how that turned out!!

In comment 13931285 mphbullet36 said:

Quote:

In comment 13931273 UConn4523 said: Quote: we have our priorities out of whack. We likely aren’t getting another Eli in that regard but making it seem like Rosen will be the polar opposite and not a professional as just a massive leap in logic. I’d expect an actual criminal to give off these vibes. its actually very important. We are fans...but the Giants run a business. Anything that can potentially effect the giants business negatively has to be considered. You don't think someone will ask him about the Trump hat if he gets drafted here. Like do you plan on playing golf at the Trump Golf course. What if he says no way I hate that guy...regardless of your political beliefs I don't think the giants want to risk alienating some of there fan base. Obviously talent trumps all, but when you factor in the injuries and the off the field stuff he doesn't seem like a prospect the giants would be willing to take a risk on...

I don’t question that. I question anyone who makes this immediate jump to Rosen now talking shit about any and everything. It’s weird.

scares me more than Rosen's. I like Rosen's personality.

I think most of this is media narrative at this point. He needs to understand that people knowing his point of view, is less important than being a stable leader that doesn't give out soundbites.

He's advocating for himself though, which I get. I'm a Rosen fan, and feel if he can stay healthy he will have a few pro bowls in his future.

but could Joe Namath play in New York City in 2018? I'm not so sure.

In comment 13931328 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

but could Joe Namath play in New York City in 2018? I'm not so sure.

If he wins, yes. Fans can put up with a lot of nonsense if someone wins.

Also you are assuming that someone who grew up in the 1950s would have the same set of beliefs as someone who grew up in the 2000s.

In comment 13931256 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

I'm not anti-Rosen by any means. I'm not a "hater." But if he's trying to calm people down about his personality, that interview didn't help him. Look, reporters can be dicks. And he's got to be able to handle that.

I agree. I'm a fan of Rosen as a player and I discount all of the character issues about his love for football. But if he came across the way he did in that interview in his interviews with the Giants staff, that could have really hurt his chances.

Eli came off a bit of a whiner when he was young and he has definitely matured over the years and learned how to deal with the media. I will admit that, although the kid was right and I can't blame him for having that kind of reaction, it's not a good look for someone who you want to be a steadying force on your team.

In comment 13931300 clatterbuck said:

Quote:

because of concussions?

No, he retired because of back problems.

I don't know the answer to. But thinking about it, I think the press is even more predatory now than it was back in Namath's time, and there's a whole lot more of it. Plus Namath had a lot of charm, which many not be Rosen's forte.

As to differences between their attitudes, I would expect generational differences as well as of the huge difference in family circumstances.

Perhaps. But look at how the press deals with OBJ (granted he brings much of that upon himself). But QB can get 10x the attention of a WR.

What would Pat Leonard, Ralph Vacchiano, Paul Schwartz, Jordan Raanan, etc. write about Namath if Namath played now, coming off a loss and admitting he was out all night drinking and screwing the night before?

You think boat-gate was bad?

mphbullet36 said:

Quote:

It’s actually very important. We are fans...but the Giants run a business. Anything that can potentially effect the giants business negatively has to be considered. You don't think someone will ask him about the Trump hat if he gets drafted here. Like do you plan on playing golf at the Trump Golf course. What if he says no way I hate that guy...regardless of your political beliefs I don't think the giants want to risk alienating some of their fan base.

I suspect the Maras would sign off on drafting Jared Kushner if they thought he would win games and sell jerseys. Besides, Rosen saying “I hate that guy” might be great for business: 55% of the fans would want to wear his number, and the other 45% might want to buy the jersey just to burn it.

In comment 13931256 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

I'm not anti-Rosen by any means. I'm not a "hater." But if he's trying to calm people down about his personality, that interview didn't help him. Look, reporters can be dicks. And he's got to be able to handle that.

I know. And the New York media are certainly different from most others. All of that has never been important for me, because his concussion history has always been preclusive. But I will support the Giants if they think otherwise. My guess is that Chubb is the pick.

for the record, I get the sense that Rosen is the "safest" pick from an ability standpoint. I really like the way he throws the football. I worry about the concussions (who wouldn't?).

I simply don't have enough information about his personality. I don't know him. I have hardly seen him interviewed. But I didn't like that interview posted above. Deal breaker? No. But I didn't care for it.

though not s playful --

Jim Bouton.

In comment 13931368 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Perhaps. But look at how the press deals with OBJ (granted he brings much of that upon himself). But QB can get 10x the attention of a WR. What would Pat Leonard, Ralph Vacchiano, Paul Schwartz, Jordan Raanan, etc. write about Namath if Namath played now, coming off a loss and admitting he was out all night drinking and screwing the night before? You think boat-gate was bad?

They would write tons of click bait articles.

No one would have cared about boat-gate if the Giants had won the playoff game.

from a Giant "insider" (whatever that means), that they couldn't see Rosen making it through a 16 game NFL schedule without being injured. It's a legitimate concern and it doesn't matter whether someone else is subject to injury, only whether he is. Rosen is immensely talented and scary as a core player at the same time....

In comment 13931328 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

but could Joe Namath play in New York City in 2018? I'm not so sure.

Eric have you seen Joe Namath lately

In comment 13931368 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Perhaps. But look at how the press deals with OBJ (granted he brings much of that upon himself). But QB can get 10x the attention of a WR. What would Pat Leonard, Ralph Vacchiano, Paul Schwartz, Jordan Raanan, etc. write about Namath if Namath played now, coming off a loss and admitting he was out all night drinking and screwing the night before? You think boat-gate was bad?

In today’s nfl, I think you already have your answer. Beckham gets heat for everything, it isn’t possible for a player to be any further underneath a microscope than he is. So Rosen giving a bad sound bite would be worse?

Don’t buy it at all. And the Joe Namath comparison kinda stinks. He’d be forced to adjust, just like LT would with social media.

Rosen to me sounds like outside of on the field stuff he may say something brash every once in a while but will do everything else by the book. He already had a charitable side to him and that torch would be passed.

This PR nightmare that some people talk about is kind of ridiculous.

In comment 13931170 mphbullet36 said:

Quote:

https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/989228084049035264

No worries guys, I have a lot of time on my hands these days. I can teach him how to deal with the NY media - Ben McAdoo

Rosen's future

Johnny football, Beckham, etc have a consequence and trade off. Is the play worth the aggravation, and is the play substantially above the aggravation or an underperformer?

Crash Davis: It's time to work on your interviews.

Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: My interviews? What do I gotta do?

Crash Davis: You're gonna have to learn your clichés. You're gonna have to study them, you're gonna have to know them. They're your friends. Write this down: "We gotta play it one day at a time."

Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: Got to play... it's pretty boring.

Crash Davis: 'Course it's boring, that's the point. Write it down.

Oh, and you don't win a war with reporters, no matter how smart you are or how dumb they are. Ask Ryan Leaf about that..life isn't fair.

... but his reputation combined with concussion/injury risk and I would not touch him with a ten foot pole.

But, who knows.

JohnF said:

Quote:

...Oh, and you don't win a war with reporters, no matter how smart you are or how dumb they are. Ask Ryan Leaf about that..life isn't fair.

I’m not sure there’s a single recipe for handling the media. Look where Strahan is now. By contrast, look at Tiki Barber: always the thoughtful, courteous interview subject, and a media darling until 2006. It didn’t save him from the jackals when he screwed up and there was money to be made trashing him.

being mean to reporters had nothing to do with that.

but I have taken Rosen off the board I don't have. For a while, the major red flag was his medical. But now it's a combination of the medical and his doucheness. I've stated numerous times that he's just a brilliant thrower of the football. Just a natural in the pocket. As good as Peyton Manning at this point...

But I've read the ESPN interview, this attached interview, Mora's endless digs, listened to Rosen on radio interviews, etc and Rosen just comes off a real jerk off. You can really feel his privilege seeping through.

He's suggested he wants to be able to challenge coaching, and really wants to be convinced he's less right on situations. Sort of this football Socratic method bullsh-t. Well, that's got problem written all over it. He needs to shut the f-ck up and learn by listening. So I really don't trust this guy...

The only QBs I have interest in now are LamJax, Darnold, and Falk.

And no bad interview was going to change that.

In comment 13931180 Joey in VA said:

Quote:

In comment 13931170 mphbullet36 said: Quote: https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/989228084049035264 He doesn't suffer fools, I love that.

I know that become a compliment to say someone doesn't suffer fools gladly, but the original context in the New Testament is that you should suffer fools gladly. Funny how a saint's instructions have been turned upside down.

Sorry, it's just one of those things that always brings me up short.

Wikipedia: Suffer Fools Gladly - ( New Window )

In comment 13931180 Joey in VA said:

Quote:

In comment 13931170 mphbullet36 said: Quote: https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/989228084049035264 He doesn't suffer fools, I love that.

I swear I want him because he’s a wise ass. I want to debunk this horse crap myth that the big bad media in this town makes the world spin and all the athletes around here have to play along with their bs. Fuck everyone. You know what’s makes the sports world spin? Winning! And that’s it!

Rosen has the goods. If you pass on this kid because of some horse shit reasoning you’re gonna be sorry. Pass on him for football reasons only.

In comment 13931573 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13931180 Joey in VA said: Quote: In comment 13931170 mphbullet36 said: Quote: https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/989228084049035264 He doesn't suffer fools, I love that. I swear I want him because he’s a wise ass. I want to debunk this horse crap myth that the big bad media in this town makes the world spin and all the athletes around here have to play along with their bs. Fuck everyone. You know what’s makes the sports world spin? Winning! And that’s it! Rosen has the goods. If you pass on this kid because of some horse shit reasoning you’re gonna be sorry. Pass on him for football reasons only.

Agree. Giants pass on him at their own peril. He can win a super bowl in Giant blue or he can win it in jets kelly green.

In comment 13931573 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13931180 Joey in VA said: Quote: In comment 13931170 mphbullet36 said: Quote: https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/989228084049035264 He doesn't suffer fools, I love that. I swear I want him because he’s a wise ass. I want to debunk this horse crap myth that the big bad media in this town makes the world spin and all the athletes around here have to play along with their bs. Fuck everyone. You know what’s makes the sports world spin? Winning! And that’s it! Rosen has the goods. If you pass on this kid because of some horse shit reasoning you’re gonna be sorry. Pass on him for football reasons only.

Let him prove that point wearing Green while Darnold leads the team to multiple championships. How about that?

In comment 13931627 ThatLimerickGuy said:

Quote:

In comment 13931573 djm said: Quote: In comment 13931180 Joey in VA said: Quote: In comment 13931170 mphbullet36 said: Quote: https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/989228084049035264 He doesn't suffer fools, I love that. I swear I want him because he’s a wise ass. I want to debunk this horse crap myth that the big bad media in this town makes the world spin and all the athletes around here have to play along with their bs. Fuck everyone. You know what’s makes the sports world spin? Winning! And that’s it! Rosen has the goods. If you pass on this kid because of some horse shit reasoning you’re gonna be sorry. Pass on him for football reasons only. Let him prove that point wearing Green while Darnold leads the team to multiple championships. How about that?

Darnold seems like a meathead.

This

in that interview? He said he wants to play for any of the 32 teams including the Jets or Giants. Is anyone suggesting he should have said something else? wtf

In comment 13931748 baadbill said:

Quote:

in that interview? He said he wants to play for any of the 32 teams including the Jets or Giants. Is anyone suggesting he should have said something else? wtf

It's sports.. If you have an ounce of intelligence or self awareness they think you're condescending or weird. Years ago they thought bill lee and Jim bouton were weird because they read books.

My bet is Rosen's going in the top 5. GMs aren't nearly as shaky as fans or media. He's an amazing passer and his football IQ is off the charts. If he impressed the Giants braintrust in his visit, it could raise his grade on their board. He's still the guy I'd like to see the Giants take.

In comment 13931748 baadbill said:

Quote:

in that interview? He said he wants to play for any of the 32 teams including the Jets or Giants. Is anyone suggesting he should have said something else? wtf

.

A few weeks ago he said he didn’t want to play for Cleveland I think he s done some back pedaling since then. Same thing with his F Trump hat. Now he says his father donated to the Trump campaign. He chaulks a lot up to being young and foolish. The NY media won’t wait for him to grow up I think he d be in trouble with the NY media He s the anti Eli

In comment 13931271 ThatLimerickGuy said:

Quote:

Or just click on the twitter exchange with Vacchiano? The article is fascinating, especially the point made by Ross Tucker. The kid is going to be guaranteed 24 million dollars or so. What if he gets two concussions and decides it's not worth it anymore? Is the team going to call him out on it and come out looking like the big bully trying to force the kid to play with a concussion history or withhold his money? Imagine that dumb controversy. The Giants don't need that. Rosen to me is the perfect Jet. Let him bristle with the reporters and quit when the team sucks so that Jet land can continue spinning. We're above that noise. We need a reliable stud QB to move us into the next chapter of championship Giant football.

it's so obvious you only hit him because he has liberal viewpoints, lol

In comment 13931661 Trainmaster said:

Quote:

This

You're forgetting Mayfield. Who would win in a douche-off? XD

In comment 13931924 Blue21 said:

Quote:

In comment 13931748 baadbill said: Quote: in that interview? He said he wants to play for any of the 32 teams including the Jets or Giants. Is anyone suggesting he should have said something else? wtf . A few weeks ago he said he didn’t want to play for Cleveland I think he s done some back pedaling since then. Same thing with his F Trump hat. Now he says his father donated to the Trump campaign. He chaulks a lot up to being young and foolish. The NY media won’t wait for him to grow up I think he d be in trouble with the NY media He s the anti Eli

Thanks for the background. I haven't been following any of that. Having said that, I still don't get what was controversial about the interview linked in this thread.

In comment 13931628 firedbytheboss said:

Quote:

In comment 13931627 ThatLimerickGuy said: Quote: In comment 13931573 djm said: Quote: In comment 13931180 Joey in VA said: Quote: In comment 13931170 mphbullet36 said: Quote: https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/989228084049035264 He doesn't suffer fools, I love that. I swear I want him because he’s a wise ass. I want to debunk this horse crap myth that the big bad media in this town makes the world spin and all the athletes around here have to play along with their bs. Fuck everyone. You know what’s makes the sports world spin? Winning! And that’s it! Rosen has the goods. If you pass on this kid because of some horse shit reasoning you’re gonna be sorry. Pass on him for football reasons only. Let him prove that point wearing Green while Darnold leads the team to multiple championships. How about that? Darnold seems like a meathead.

That’s your evaluation. Many would disagree with you.

Take a look at some Eli Manning’s interviews prior to the 2004 draft. Mensa member wasn’t really something that came to mind. How’s that work out?