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Maybe Barkley's not such a a sure thing.

Lowell : 4/26/2018 1:48 am
2005 NFL Draft. Second overall- Ronnie Brown
2005 4th overall-Cedric Benson
2005 5th overall- Cadillac Williams.

2006 Second over all- Reggie Bush

2008 Fourth overall- Darren McFadden

2012- Third over all- Trent Richardson

Adrian Peterson won only one playoff game during his entire Vikings career.

Brandon Jacobs was the Giants' fourth round pick in 2005.



Nothing is a sure thing  
sharpshooter66 : 4/26/2018 1:51 am : link
you taoe the best prospect on your board and dont look back. No matter who we take we have to build a winning culture and winning team around them. Never expect one great pick to take you to the promised land
Oh how convenient  
TrueBlue56 : 4/26/2018 2:01 am : link
That you stop listing running backs before you get to fournette and elliott.
You can play the same game with QBs  
illmatic : 4/26/2018 2:35 am : link
.
RE: You can play the same game with QBs  
firedbytheboss : 4/26/2018 2:52 am : link
In comment 13932391 illmatic said:
Quote:
.


except qbs have far more value than rbs
thats a matter of opinion.  
sharpshooter66 : 4/26/2018 2:54 am : link
good players have more value than not so good players is a fact
thats about as big a falacy as one could have  
sharpshooter66 : 4/26/2018 2:56 am : link
A 300+ carry 1500+ yard 12+TD RB has more value to any team than an average QB lol
RE: thats about as big a falacy as one could have  
firedbytheboss : 4/26/2018 3:25 am : link
In comment 13932398 sharpshooter66 said:
Quote:
A 300+ carry 1500+ yard 12+TD RB has more value to any team than an average QB lol


you are mistaken and it is not a matter of opinion. Kirk Cousin is maybe a top 12 QB. He just signed the richest contract in NFL history $84M fully guaranteed. Meanwhile Leveon Bell, the best RB in the game can't get a contract. tell me again how a top RB is more valuable than an average RB.
RE: RE: thats about as big a falacy as one could have  
firedbytheboss : 4/26/2018 3:26 am : link
In comment 13932402 firedbytheboss said:
Quote:
In comment 13932398 sharpshooter66 said:


Quote:


A 300+ carry 1500+ yard 12+TD RB has more value to any team than an average QB lol



you are mistaken and it is not a matter of opinion. Kirk Cousin is maybe a top 12 QB. He just signed the richest contract in NFL history $84M fully guaranteed. Meanwhile Leveon Bell, the best RB in the game can't get a contract. tell me again how a top RB is more valuable than an average RB.


better than an average QB i mean..
RE: thats about as big a falacy as one could have  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/26/2018 3:39 am : link
In comment 13932398 sharpshooter66 said:
Quote:
A 300+ carry 1500+ yard 12+TD RB has more value to any team than an average QB lol

That's factually incorrect.
Yes, QBs get paid a lot  
sharpshooter66 : 4/26/2018 3:47 am : link
because thats how supply and demand works. Good players beat expensive players in a foottball game
You can do this list with any position  
Mike in NY : 4/26/2018 3:51 am : link
My hope is that with all the Giants need, they do not get tunnel vision and force a pick because a player plays a certain position. Guys like Flowers and Apple show what happens when you push players too far up your board because of the position they play. I do not doubt that both were ranked by the Giants at or above where we picked, but that was due to overemphasis on a specific position.
RE: Yes, QBs get paid a lot  
firedbytheboss : 4/26/2018 3:52 am : link
In comment 13932409 sharpshooter66 said:
Quote:
because thats how supply and demand works. Good players beat expensive players in a foottball game


thank you for admitting that the market has determined that average QBs are more valuable than elite RBs thus proving my point.
RE: You can do this list with any position  
firedbytheboss : 4/26/2018 3:55 am : link
In comment 13932411 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
My hope is that with all the Giants need, they do not get tunnel vision and force a pick because a player plays a certain position. Guys like Flowers and Apple show what happens when you push players too far up your board because of the position they play. I do not doubt that both were ranked by the Giants at or above where we picked, but that was due to overemphasis on a specific position.


spending money on less valuable positions and overdrafting players where the replacement value by much lower round guys is very high is a great way to destroy your franchise. The Patriots, for instance, do not make such dumb mistakes. And the Eagles have not made dumb mistakes like that. But we should be the knuckleheads that draft Barkley at #2 overspending AND overdrafting at a position where there is much better value 2 rounds later.
If your point is  
sharpshooter66 : 4/26/2018 3:56 am : link
that value is only monetary cost yes i concede that point because o dont care about monetary cost lol. Im not here to win stupid arguments about dumb stuff.

Whos wins a game between an average expensive player and a great cheap player?
RE: If your point is  
firedbytheboss : 4/26/2018 4:01 am : link
In comment 13932415 sharpshooter66 said:
Quote:
that value is only monetary cost yes i concede that point because o dont care about monetary cost lol. Im not here to win stupid arguments about dumb stuff.

Whos wins a game between an average expensive player and a great cheap player?


Elite qbs win you super bowls elite rbs generally don't
Good teams win Superbowls  
sharpshooter66 : 4/26/2018 4:05 am : link
Thats why i always lean to BPA regardless of position. If you go BPA you ensure that youre loading the team with talent. If i had a glaring hole i would consider that while picking BPA. Whoever the QB is he will need talent
RE: RE: You can do this list with any position  
Mike in NY : 4/26/2018 4:13 am : link
In comment 13932414 firedbytheboss said:
Quote:
In comment 13932411 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


My hope is that with all the Giants need, they do not get tunnel vision and force a pick because a player plays a certain position. Guys like Flowers and Apple show what happens when you push players too far up your board because of the position they play. I do not doubt that both were ranked by the Giants at or above where we picked, but that was due to overemphasis on a specific position.



spending money on less valuable positions and overdrafting players where the replacement value by much lower round guys is very high is a great way to destroy your franchise. The Patriots, for instance, do not make such dumb mistakes. And the Eagles have not made dumb mistakes like that. But we should be the knuckleheads that draft Barkley at #2 overspending AND overdrafting at a position where there is much better value 2 rounds later.


Patriots have probably the greatest QB of all time on a below market deal with extras under the table to circumvent the cap and an amazing head coach. Philly has a QB operating under a rookie wage scale, which has allowed them to boost their DL. They also made sure that they had an OL in place before getting their franchise QB. If you look at the teams that are successful these days, they have found a way to get their QB cheaply. However, for many of the franchises it was a long time in the making. Eagles had never won a Super Bowl. How many QB’s have teams like Washington, Cincy, Tampa, Buffalo, etc, run through? Drafting a QB for the sake of drafting a QB is how you end up with players like Akili Smith, Jake Locker, J.P. Losman, and countless others. Selecting a bust at a more important position sets the franchise back more than selecting a good player at a less important position (although good player at more important position trumps both).
I think Barkley  
sharpshooter66 : 4/26/2018 4:15 am : link
with the OL improved, and the grades ive seen on him is a perfect fit for the offense Shurmer wants to install and allows him to run his system. I think its a no brainer pick to be honest, and the only reason we have a shot at him is because the only team picking ahead of us is going to reach for positional need. And they have to, tbh. We dont have too yet, and would be stupid to pass n the best player in the draft. Find a solid QB who can run the system later
RE: RE: If your point is  
Mike in NY : 4/26/2018 4:16 am : link
In comment 13932416 firedbytheboss said:
Quote:
In comment 13932415 sharpshooter66 said:


Quote:


that value is only monetary cost yes i concede that point because o dont care about monetary cost lol. Im not here to win stupid arguments about dumb stuff.

Whos wins a game between an average expensive player and a great cheap player?



Elite qbs win you super bowls elite rbs generally don't


Except there may not be an elite QB in this draft. 1999 had 5 QB’s in the top 12 with 0 combined Super Bowl wins as a starter. The best ended up being Donovan McNabb. If that is all we are getting at #2 I am not sure that is good value.
RE: RE: RE: You can do this list with any position  
Mike from SI : 4/26/2018 4:24 am : link
In comment 13932418 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13932414 firedbytheboss said:


Quote:


In comment 13932411 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


My hope is that with all the Giants need, they do not get tunnel vision and force a pick because a player plays a certain position. Guys like Flowers and Apple show what happens when you push players too far up your board because of the position they play. I do not doubt that both were ranked by the Giants at or above where we picked, but that was due to overemphasis on a specific position.



spending money on less valuable positions and overdrafting players where the replacement value by much lower round guys is very high is a great way to destroy your franchise. The Patriots, for instance, do not make such dumb mistakes. And the Eagles have not made dumb mistakes like that. But we should be the knuckleheads that draft Barkley at #2 overspending AND overdrafting at a position where there is much better value 2 rounds later.



Patriots have probably the greatest QB of all time on a below market deal with extras under the table to circumvent the cap and an amazing head coach. Philly has a QB operating under a rookie wage scale, which has allowed them to boost their DL. They also made sure that they had an OL in place before getting their franchise QB. If you look at the teams that are successful these days, they have found a way to get their QB cheaply. However, for many of the franchises it was a long time in the making. Eagles had never won a Super Bowl. How many QB’s have teams like Washington, Cincy, Tampa, Buffalo, etc, run through? Drafting a QB for the sake of drafting a QB is how you end up with players like Akili Smith, Jake Locker, J.P. Losman, and countless others. Selecting a bust at a more important position sets the franchise back more than selecting a good player at a less important position (although good player at more important position trumps both).


People just don't want to understand this point. If Barkley is rated slightly ahead of the QB, you take the QB. If Barkley is rated super high and you don't love the QBs, you take Barkley.

This board had fucking conniptions over the JPP and Odell picks. It loved the David Wilson pick. It was moderately optimistic on Flowers because "hey, left tackles are important!" I'll trust Gettelman to do the right thing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You can do this list with any position  
Mike in NY : 4/26/2018 4:35 am : link
In comment 13932421 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 13932418 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13932414 firedbytheboss said:


Quote:


In comment 13932411 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


My hope is that with all the Giants need, they do not get tunnel vision and force a pick because a player plays a certain position. Guys like Flowers and Apple show what happens when you push players too far up your board because of the position they play. I do not doubt that both were ranked by the Giants at or above where we picked, but that was due to overemphasis on a specific position.



spending money on less valuable positions and overdrafting players where the replacement value by much lower round guys is very high is a great way to destroy your franchise. The Patriots, for instance, do not make such dumb mistakes. And the Eagles have not made dumb mistakes like that. But we should be the knuckleheads that draft Barkley at #2 overspending AND overdrafting at a position where there is much better value 2 rounds later.



Patriots have probably the greatest QB of all time on a below market deal with extras under the table to circumvent the cap and an amazing head coach. Philly has a QB operating under a rookie wage scale, which has allowed them to boost their DL. They also made sure that they had an OL in place before getting their franchise QB. If you look at the teams that are successful these days, they have found a way to get their QB cheaply. However, for many of the franchises it was a long time in the making. Eagles had never won a Super Bowl. How many QB’s have teams like Washington, Cincy, Tampa, Buffalo, etc, run through? Drafting a QB for the sake of drafting a QB is how you end up with players like Akili Smith, Jake Locker, J.P. Losman, and countless others. Selecting a bust at a more important position sets the franchise back more than selecting a good player at a less important position (although good player at more important position trumps both).



People just don't want to understand this point. If Barkley is rated slightly ahead of the QB, you take the QB. If Barkley is rated super high and you don't love the QBs, you take Barkley.

This board had fucking conniptions over the JPP and Odell picks. It loved the David Wilson pick. It was moderately optimistic on Flowers because "hey, left tackles are important!" I'll trust Gettelman to do the right thing.


Exactly re: first paragraph. I seem to recall David Wilson pick differently. I recall a lot of BBI going ape because we passed over Cordy Glenn.
Gurley  
mdthedream : 4/26/2018 6:11 am : link
and others.
Maybe  
charlito : 4/26/2018 6:42 am : link
Sam Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield are not a sure thing.

JaMarcus Russell, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf
..  
charlito : 4/26/2018 6:45 am : link
David Carr, Joey Harrington
RG III  
since1925 : 4/26/2018 8:05 am : link
.
QB's have more value than RB's it's not even remotely debatable  
pjcas18 : 4/26/2018 8:09 am : link
but they also have more failures and when you miss on a QB it usually hurts more than missing on a RB for a variety of reasons.

Not saying that means take a RB, just pointing out the impact.
no sure thing  
bc4life : 4/26/2018 8:35 am : link
but Barkley is certainly not an unreasonable bet to make
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