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If Darnold is available and DG passes on him and Rosen

Essex : 4/26/2018 11:30 am
He better be right, because he won't have a job in two years if he isn't. I mean you don't want to overreact, but we are now being given an opportunity to have a 30 year stretch of a franchise qb, and to throw that away for a RB would be criminal. At the very least, trade the pick and get capital for a qb next year if you are really sticking to your convictions that Darnold and Rosen aren't that good, get the King's ransom. Please, though, please do not draft Saquon Barkley. It is so short-sighted no matter how good he is.
'I mean you don't want to overreact'...  
Torrag : 4/26/2018 11:32 am : link
You just did.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2018 11:33 am : link
There is tremendous pressure on Gettleman to get his right. It's probably the biggest decision he will make during his entire football career.

That said, he doesn't appear to be worried.
Why is it  
lax counsel : 4/26/2018 11:34 am : link
That we are hearing the Patriots and and Saints are looking to trade up for qbs and none of these guys are good enough for the Giants? I guess that sorta pokes a hole in the bbi crowd saying none of the older teams will consider a qb. I do agree though, rb at 2 is just mind boggling.
I am in the draft Darnold/Rosen  
Jay on the Island : 4/26/2018 11:34 am : link
or trade down camp. If they truly don't like either QB then they should trade down and pick up a 2019 1st round pick.
Jay, I'm in camp with you  
ZogZerg : 4/26/2018 11:35 am : link
;)
RE: ...  
Jay on the Island : 4/26/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13933375 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
There is tremendous pressure on Gettleman to get his right. It's probably the biggest decision he will make during his entire football career.

That said, he doesn't appear to be worried.

This is what worries me. He is getting old and this is his last GM job. The pressure isn't as high as it would be for a young first time GM who is trying to make his mark.
Jay on the Island  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2018 11:38 am : link
Could work both ways. Experience could be a huge asset and he may feel less pressure because he's not worried about his job.
RE: ...  
Giants34 : 4/26/2018 11:38 am : link
In comment 13933375 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
There is tremendous pressure on Gettleman to get his right. It's probably the biggest decision he will make during his entire football career.

That said, he doesn't appear to be worried.


And what does that tell you? Does that give you insight? I mean, I want to believe the Giants are going QB at 2, but there seems to be a ton of chatter going in the opposite direction. Do you believe he's put up such a smokescreen so as to fool the entire media?
I think John Dorsey is on a hotter seat than DG  
Anakim : 4/26/2018 11:39 am : link
Drafting a 6' QB coming from a spread offense in the Big 12 first overall?


That takes major balls. MAJOR balls. If Baker flops, Dorsey's going to be out of the league.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 4/26/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 13933375 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
There is tremendous pressure on Gettleman to get his right. It's probably the biggest decision he will make during his entire football career.

That said, he doesn't appear to be worried.


I think it's the biggest decision in the history of this franchise

What else is there? Rozelle brokering the deal to bring in GY?
RE: RE: ...  
Essex : 4/26/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 13933401 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13933375 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


There is tremendous pressure on Gettleman to get his right. It's probably the biggest decision he will make during his entire football career.

That said, he doesn't appear to be worried.


This is what worries me. He is getting old and this is his last GM job. The pressure isn't as high as it would be for a young first time GM who is trying to make his mark.

Gettleman gives off the impression of being very self-confident, the smartest guy in the room type. Obviously, we don't know these guys personally or how they are, but his press conferences give me that vibe. So, yes, he does not seem worried.
And what if he drafts Barkley, who goes on to have a brilliant career.  
Brown Recluse : 4/26/2018 11:39 am : link
While Darnold and Rosen both turn ito busts. What will you say then?

No one knows what will happen. The Giants will draft who they draft and then we'll see how it plays out over the next few years. I swear, some of you get way too caught up in this stuff. Its almost as if the Giants make the wrong decision, it will impact your life somehow.

Eli is the elephant in the room  
oldutican : 4/26/2018 11:39 am : link
And I fear sentiment is going to lead to a bad decision. Evidence seems to show his best days are behind him. But ownership may run scared of bringing in a replacement, even a delayed replacement, and is afraid a QB controversy if the team is still losing in the fall with Eli. I still think some of the resistance to taking a QB is that it signals the end of the Eli era.
he would be an idiot  
jintz4life : 4/26/2018 11:39 am : link
to stay at 2 and take barkley

if he doesnt like the qbs he needs to trade down
RE: Jay on the Island  
Giants34 : 4/26/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 13933415 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Could work both ways. Experience could be a huge asset and he may feel less pressure because he's not worried about his job.


McAdoo notwithstanding (and he was a coach), the Giants are a very loyal franchise. Gettleman should know he has time to rebuild this thing, if that is the way he wants to go. I'm also sure he has gotten the ok from ownership to select a QB, so he won't do that without their blessing.
If we pass on, not one BUT TWO franchise QB’s....  
est1986 : 4/26/2018 11:40 am : link
Whoever we pick HAS TO be a future HOF’er (Barkley? Chubb?). If we don’t draft a QB at 2 (Darnold or Rosen)... I would not be happy or mad, just a little surprised.

But I will say this... pick Barkley... and you send an outstanding message to the current team... WIN NOW! SUPERBOWL OR BUST!
RE: Why is it  
jvm52106 : 4/26/2018 11:41 am : link
In comment 13933382 lax counsel said:
Quote:
That we are hearing the Patriots and and Saints are looking to trade up for qbs and none of these guys are good enough for the Giants? I guess that sorta pokes a hole in the bbi crowd saying none of the older teams will consider a qb. I do agree though, rb at 2 is just mind boggling.


Their guys are older, they are pretty set across the board with their rosters. We have a lot of holes.....
RE: Jay on the Island  
Jay on the Island : 4/26/2018 11:41 am : link
In comment 13933415 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Could work both ways. Experience could be a huge asset and he may feel less pressure because he's not worried about his job.

Good point. I am just worried about the what if scenario. What if the Giants pass on Darnold and/or Rosen and both go on to become great franchise QB's especially for the Jets. That could bother us for the next 10+ years.
RE: Eli is the elephant in the room  
Essex : 4/26/2018 11:42 am : link
In comment 13933427 oldutican said:
Quote:
And I fear sentiment is going to lead to a bad decision. Evidence seems to show his best days are behind him. But ownership may run scared of bringing in a replacement, even a delayed replacement, and is afraid a QB controversy if the team is still losing in the fall with Eli. I still think some of the resistance to taking a QB is that it signals the end of the Eli era.

I love Eli so much and he has meant so much to this franchise, but I really hope the Giants will lead with their heads and not their hearts. If in two years we have a Drew Stanton type at QB, are we going to feel that much better about ourselves because we were sentimental to a great guy and great qb who meant so much to us.
RE: RE: Jay on the Island  
Jay on the Island : 4/26/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 13933436 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 13933415 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Could work both ways. Experience could be a huge asset and he may feel less pressure because he's not worried about his job.



McAdoo notwithstanding (and he was a coach), the Giants are a very loyal franchise. Gettleman should know he has time to rebuild this thing, if that is the way he wants to go. I'm also sure he has gotten the ok from ownership to select a QB, so he won't do that without their blessing.

When he was hired it was rumored that DG was hired to keep the seat warm for Abrams who needed more experience on the player evaluation and scouting side. If DG plans on retiring in 3 years he might prefer to try to win a SB rather than set this team up for when he isn't around. That is my concern.
Gotta go QB.  
Since1965 : 4/26/2018 11:44 am : link
Otherwise, it will be "years of QB hell" in the future/
RE: ...  
Jim in NH : 4/26/2018 11:44 am : link
In comment 13933375 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
There is tremendous pressure on Gettleman to get his right. It's probably the biggest decision he will make during his entire football career.

That said, he doesn't appear to be worried.


Were the 49ers ruined when they picked Joe Montana in the third round? Were the Patriots ruined when they drafted Brady in the sixth round?

All this first-round QB hysteria is pathetic.
RE: And what if he drafts Barkley, who goes on to have a brilliant career.  
bw in dc : 4/26/2018 11:44 am : link
In comment 13933425 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
While Darnold and Rosen both turn ito busts. What will you say then?



That's an incomplete thought because the real key is how the other ten quality RBs do. This is the deepest draft for RBs in years. And the difference between most of them and Barkley isn't great. So under the circumstances where there also a good crop of QBs, and we have an aging QB, the math says take the QB and find the RB later...
Essex ownership has a VERY big  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/26/2018 11:47 am : link
say in this decision as well. If we don't go QB it could be because Mara doesn't want to.
RE: RE: ...  
Giants34 : 4/26/2018 11:48 am : link
In comment 13933470 Jim in NH said:
Quote:
In comment 13933375 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


There is tremendous pressure on Gettleman to get his right. It's probably the biggest decision he will make during his entire football career.

That said, he doesn't appear to be worried.



Were the 49ers ruined when they picked Joe Montana in the third round? Were the Patriots ruined when they drafted Brady in the sixth round?

All this first-round QB hysteria is pathetic.


So are you suggesting we pick a QB at 199 because there is a chance he becomes Tom Brady? Because the stats show that - overwhelmingly - most franchise QBs come from the top of the 1st round.
Jim in NH  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2018 11:51 am : link
I don't understand your post.

If the Giants screw this #2 pick up - after botching most of the draft the past decade - we're screwed. Period.
bw in dc  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2018 11:52 am : link
We've been in this spot before... LT pick, Manning trade.

But Gettleman hasn't been in this position before.
Giants34  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2018 11:53 am : link
I don't see a smokescreen unless I'm missing something. Doesn't provide insight... means the moment isn't too big for him.
We are in a very rare position  
Jay on the Island : 4/26/2018 11:54 am : link
to make a seamless transition from one franchise QB to another.
RE: Why is it  
Jimmy Googs : 4/26/2018 11:55 am : link
In comment 13933382 lax counsel said:
Quote:
That we are hearing the Patriots and and Saints are looking to trade up for qbs and none of these guys are good enough for the Giants?


why do you believe everything you hear?
RE: 'I mean you don't want to overreact'...  
Jimmy Googs : 4/26/2018 11:56 am : link
In comment 13933367 Torrag said:
Quote:
You just did.


I don't think he did.
RE: Giants34  
Giants34 : 4/26/2018 11:56 am : link
In comment 13933519 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I don't see a smokescreen unless I'm missing something. Doesn't provide insight... means the moment isn't too big for him.


Well then in my estimation we are screwed. Because we are passing up a QB for Barkley, and that is a huge mistake, one I cannot wrap my head around.

You think it's possible the Giants have been so secretive about this pick they are just running rampant with speculation, or that the pick is actually going to be Barkley because he is the "perfect prospect".
Let me just say this  
Coach LB : 4/26/2018 11:56 am : link
Nobody knows who can be a franchise QB out of this group. Heck what is a franchise QB in 2018 anymore?? It has everything to do with the player and the coaching. Is Foles a franchise QB? Keenum? Depending on your definition of the term maybe/maybe not but Keenum just got paid by Denver and they are still in the QB market as some experts suggest. Bradford just got paid and AZ is still in the QB market per the experts.

If Shurmer can do the same with any of these QBs (Better yet with Eli and Webb) that he did with Keenum and Bradford. Then that can afford the Giants to get a RB like Barkley or a DE like Chubb who can also fill some needed holes.
My wish is to take back with Denver at #5 then take SB or BC and also gain Denver's 2, 3, & next years 1 or 2 to fill these holes.
Taking a QB tonight does not help NYG for 2018 or 2019 period.
Go Giants!!!
RE: he would be an idiot  
Rory : 4/26/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13933428 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to stay at 2 and take barkley

if he doesnt like the qbs he needs to trade down


WTF! Trade down to who? Ok you cant fucking make that comments without backing it up.

The Bill currently have 2 1st round picks, so if you want to trade 2 pick 12 then s fucking be it but you lose out on a premier prospect.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
jvm52106 : 4/26/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13933494 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 13933470 Jim in NH said:


Quote:


In comment 13933375 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


There is tremendous pressure on Gettleman to get his right. It's probably the biggest decision he will make during his entire football career.

That said, he doesn't appear to be worried.



Were the 49ers ruined when they picked Joe Montana in the third round? Were the Patriots ruined when they drafted Brady in the sixth round?

All this first-round QB hysteria is pathetic.



So are you suggesting we pick a QB at 199 because there is a chance he becomes Tom Brady? Because the stats show that - overwhelmingly - most franchise QBs come from the top of the 1st round.


What??? No, I think we need to get Ol, DB, LB, etc.. We have a guy who we drafted to develop. Eli is here for 2 years at a min. Sorry people, get used to the fact that they believe in Eli still.
Yeah, the more I think about it,  
Dave in Hoboken : 4/26/2018 11:58 am : link
the less a trade down makes sense.
Giants34  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2018 11:59 am : link
Again, if the Giants aren't in love with a QB, then they shouldn't draft a QB at #2. (They could later, including after a trade down).

If they love a QB, they can take one at #2. (which they may)

I missed the the part  
Tom from LI : 4/26/2018 11:59 am : link
where any of these QB's are stamped "Certified Franchise QB" that we would be passing on..

Its all a crap shoot at this point.

As I pointed out in a different thread  
PatersonPlank : 4/26/2018 11:59 am : link
This draft "could" end up like the 1999 draft. Teams were desperate for a QB so they all reached. The first 3 picks were Couch (bust), McNabb (worth it), and Akili Smith (bust). Also picked in the 1st were Culpepper (Ok but not worth a 1st Rd pick) and Cade McCown (career backup, not worth it).

So 5 QB's went in the 1st and only 1 was anywhere near worth it. You don't think reaching for a QB, only because he was a QB, hurt Cleveland, Cincy, or the rest? Pick the best player, not the best position.

And by the way, I heard this on the radio from a former GM who had the 10th pick in the draft and passed on Culpepper and McCown even though they needed a QB.
Interesting  
Stan in LA : 4/26/2018 12:00 pm : link
Quote:
The other part of the rumors regarding this selection is that the Giants will take Saquon Barkley. Perhaps this is a ruse by the front office to get the Browns to trade up from No. 4 to 2, and if so, general manager David Gettleman deserves a ton of credit. However, Gettleman's picks have been telegraphed through the media in the past; everyone knew the Panthers were going to take Christian McCaffrey last year

Link - ( New Window )
I'm pretty convinced of what DG will do  
dd in Mass : 4/26/2018 12:01 pm : link
If you look back at the 10-15 years of the NFL draft. Picking QB's in the top 10 has produced a very low success rate.

So unless either he or Shurmur are in love with Rosen or Darnold then I fully expect him to trade back.

So I'd say it's 80/20 that he trades back. Whoever gives him the most value with get the #2 pick.

I'm thinking it's Buffalo and the boatload of picks. Especially if their 2019 1st rounder is included
don't count your franchise QBs  
fkap : 4/26/2018 12:02 pm : link
before they hatch.

Some big assumptions being made here.

It's going to be a while before anything can be written in stone.
RE: RE: he would be an idiot  
jvm52106 : 4/26/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13933538 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 13933428 jintz4life said:


Quote:


to stay at 2 and take barkley

if he doesnt like the qbs he needs to trade down



WTF! Trade down to who? Ok you cant fucking make that comments without backing it up.

The Bill currently have 2 1st round picks, so if you want to trade 2 pick 12 then s fucking be it but you lose out on a premier prospect.


He could easily end up like George Rogers with the Saints. Decent numbers, no success and eventually moved elsewhere. We have to build the team.
RE: RE: And what if he drafts Barkley, who goes on to have a brilliant career.  
Brown Recluse : 4/26/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13933477 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13933425 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


While Darnold and Rosen both turn ito busts. What will you say then?





That's an incomplete thought because the real key is how the other ten quality RBs do. This is the deepest draft for RBs in years. And the difference between most of them and Barkley isn't great. So under the circumstances where there also a good crop of QBs, and we have an aging QB, the math says take the QB and find the RB later...


The other RB's don't matter when the decision is between the players available at #2, and who you chose vs who you didn't.

And you only take a QB if you think its the right one. If not, you go in a different direction - because drafting a QB you don't believe in just to draft a QB, can be as problematic as passing on a QB you believe in for something else.
RE: RE: And what if he drafts Barkley, who goes on to have a brilliant career.  
Brown Recluse : 4/26/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13933477 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13933425 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


While Darnold and Rosen both turn ito busts. What will you say then?





That's an incomplete thought because the real key is how the other ten quality RBs do. This is the deepest draft for RBs in years. And the difference between most of them and Barkley isn't great. So under the circumstances where there also a good crop of QBs, and we have an aging QB, the math says take the QB and find the RB later...


The other RB's don't matter when the decision is between the players available at #2, and who you chose vs who you didn't.

And you only take a QB if you think its the right one. If not, you go in a different direction - because drafting a QB you don't believe in just to draft a QB, can be as problematic as passing on a prospect you believe in for something else.
RE: I am in the draft Darnold/Rosen  
Greg from LI : 4/26/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13933383 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
or trade down camp. If they truly don't like either QB then they should trade down and pick up a 2019 1st round pick.


Same here
I am totally onboard with a trade down but  
Joe in CT : 4/26/2018 12:34 pm : link
all indications appear that DG and PS are not enamored with any of the QBs (buzz kill for all the GM wannabe's out there).

If we stay put at 2 and select either Barkley or Chubb we are going to be a better team compared to what we were yesterday but the trade down crowd needs to realize we need a "trade partner" and if one one the needy QB teams can't come up far enough and give us a decent haul then basically we need to stay put and choose the guy DG has a conviction in.
RE: Why is it  
Amtoft : 4/26/2018 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13933382 lax counsel said:
Quote:
That we are hearing the Patriots and and Saints are looking to trade up for qbs and none of these guys are good enough for the Giants? I guess that sorta pokes a hole in the bbi crowd saying none of the older teams will consider a qb. I do agree though, rb at 2 is just mind boggling.


They arent trying to trade up to #2 pick in the draft to take a QB. They want in the teens if one falls. Big difference. If we trade back and a QB we like falls then we would jump. Big difference at #2
I want to believe  
eugibs : 4/26/2018 12:45 pm : link
that Darnold or Rosen or both are franchise quarterbacks and if they are both available when the Giants are on the clock, I will want the Giants to draft one of them. With that said, I don't know how to evaluate a quarterback prospect and if the Giants really don't believe in either guy, then they should pass on them.

However, taking a running back with the second pick is just poor strategy, even if he is instantly a top 5 back as Bill Barnwell eloquently explained in his column yesterday. If they aren't taking a quarterback, they have to trade down. There are clearly teams that desperately want these quarterbacks, so I have a very hard time believing a trade is not out there to be made if the Giants choose to go that route.
It will be funny  
Knee of Theismann : 4/26/2018 12:47 pm : link
When Lamar Jackson ends up being the best QB of this class.
RE: As I pointed out in a different thread  
Danny80 : 4/26/2018 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13933552 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
This draft "could" end up like the 1999 draft. Teams were desperate for a QB so they all reached. The first 3 picks were Couch (bust), McNabb (worth it), and Akili Smith (bust). Also picked in the 1st were Culpepper (Ok but not worth a 1st Rd pick) and Cade McCown (career backup, not worth it).

So 5 QB's went in the 1st and only 1 was anywhere near worth it. You don't think reaching for a QB, only because he was a QB, hurt Cleveland, Cincy, or the rest? Pick the best player, not the best position.

And by the way, I heard this on the radio from a former GM who had the 10th pick in the draft and passed on Culpepper and McCown even though they needed a QB.


Culpepper's career was derailed by injury. He had some really good years and looked like he was going to be awesome. Tim Couch was ruined by an awful Browns team and an interesting stat -- the Browns only drafted 2 o-linemen in the 3 years after Tim Couch was drafted - a 6th rounder and a 7th rounder. Similar to David Carr. Going to an awful team with no o-line can ruin a QB's chances. It actually almost ruined Phil Simms' career. The only guy in that draft who was a huge bust was Akili Smith, and a lot of that was his horrible preparation.
RE: RE: As I pointed out in a different thread  
fireitup77 : 4/26/2018 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13933773 Danny80 said:
Quote:
In comment 13933552 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


This draft "could" end up like the 1999 draft. Teams were desperate for a QB so they all reached. The first 3 picks were Couch (bust), McNabb (worth it), and Akili Smith (bust). Also picked in the 1st were Culpepper (Ok but not worth a 1st Rd pick) and Cade McCown (career backup, not worth it).

So 5 QB's went in the 1st and only 1 was anywhere near worth it. You don't think reaching for a QB, only because he was a QB, hurt Cleveland, Cincy, or the rest? Pick the best player, not the best position.

And by the way, I heard this on the radio from a former GM who had the 10th pick in the draft and passed on Culpepper and McCown even though they needed a QB.



Culpepper's career was derailed by injury. He had some really good years and looked like he was going to be awesome. Tim Couch was ruined by an awful Browns team and an interesting stat -- the Browns only drafted 2 o-linemen in the 3 years after Tim Couch was drafted - a 6th rounder and a 7th rounder. Similar to David Carr. Going to an awful team with no o-line can ruin a QB's chances. It actually almost ruined Phil Simms' career. The only guy in that draft who was a huge bust was Akili Smith, and a lot of that was his horrible preparation.


And how is the Giants Oline? You think our Oline might do the same to a qb we draft this year?
RE: RE: RE: As I pointed out in a different thread  
Jay on the Island : 4/26/2018 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13933805 fireitup77 said:
Quote:



And how is the Giants Oline? You think our Oline might do the same to a qb we draft this year?


The difference being that if the Giants do draft a QB he will be a backup this year. This would give the Giants another year to fix the offensive line.
Oldutican  
joeinpa : 4/26/2018 2:56 pm : link
Man I hope you re wrong. That would be a terrible reason to pass on a quarterback
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