Stealing from another thread, but it's an interesting discussion. Not necessarily the biggest decisions in retrospect (i.e. drafting LT turned out to be huge), but the biggest moments for a decision that impacted the franchise.
Candidates:
1. Trading for Eli
2. 2018 #2 overall pick
3. Rozelle stepping in and making George Young GM
4. Sticking with Parcells after rough start
5. Re-signing Rodney Hampton (and foregoing comp picks)
That move still resonates to this day... 40 years later.
Young picked Perkins, Parcells, passed on Belichick, Reeves, Fassel.
Rozelle / Young is second.
Moving the franchise to New Jersey, Hiring Ray Handley and not BB, drafting Dave Brown.....
But for me its probably 3 and 4. GY hiring is a milestone and I think if you don't stick with BP you don't win 2 SBs when they did.
Yea but, didn't George Young draft LT? No GY .... no LT maybe?
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With the above commenter. Drafting LT.
Yea but, didn't George Young draft LT? No GY .... no LT maybe?
The only person in the world who wasn't drafting LT was the GM of the Saints.
I always thought this had a lot to do with the Maras being proponents of revenue sharing.
We've been chasing that period ever sense.
We've been chasing that period ever sense.
you must mean '84-'90. I don't think the Ray Handjob era qualifies as Sir Lancelot to Tuna's King Arthur. Sir Lancelot departed to Cleveland after SB 25
you must mean '84-'90. I don't think the Ray Handjob era qualifies as Sir Lancelot to Tuna's King Arthur. Sir Lancelot departed to Cleveland after SB 25
Right, my bad.
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In comment 13933716 capegman said:
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With the above commenter. Drafting LT.
Yea but, didn't George Young draft LT? No GY .... no LT maybe?
The only person in the world who wasn't drafting LT was the GM of the Saints.
Before Young - if Tim Mara and Wellington Mara were still running the draft - you cannot guarantee me LT would have been their pick. Even if they were both convinced that LT should have been the pick (not likely - the Giants had a great group of LBs at the time) - out of spite (if nothing else) 1 of them would have voted against him for no other reason than the other one - wanted him. IIRC - it was that bad.
IMO - The league forcing the Giants to hire a proper GM was way more important than drafting LT. Now, GY drafting a football God (LT) was gravy ... a great 1-2 punch proper GM + greatest defensive player of all time).
This by a mile...
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This by a mile...
I would argue the Zimmerman trade was equal to drafting LT.
The Tuna that got away - ( New Window )
From truebluelarry's "Climbing the Mountain – New York Giants 1979-1985":
"Getting “all” to agree was going to prove to be the most elusive of ideals.
Robustelli, fed up with the infighting, walked away from the Giants on December 31, leaving the quarrelsome Maras on their own. He wrote years later, “During my five seasons as director of operations, the games played behind the games played on Sunday were far tougher and costlier to the franchise than anything that happened on the field. Like the games on the field, there were soon two teams in our office.”
The New Year was filled with rumors and innuendo. Press conferences were called and little substance was revealed, consternation abounded, and potential candidates vanished. Paterno, who wanted full control of the football organization, ultimately refuted the Giants courting, while Walsh went to San Francisco. Reeves felt uncomfortable with the feuding owners and chose to remain in Dallas. The frustration boiled over. Tim Mara said of Paterno, “I don’t know what job or jobs my uncle offered him. My gut reaction is that Joe Paterno never was going to come to the Giants anyway.”
All the elder Mara would say is, “We don’t always agree.”
Rumors from unnamed sources suggested the two owners were conducting their own searches in solitary.
Wellington declared, “I am the president of the Giants. The office was given me by election. Even though the shareholding is equal, having been made president, I’m chief operating officer. It’s my responsibility, when there is a deadlock, to make the final decision…I want to get a man who can run this franchise the next 10 or 20 years, a good man whom I can trust.”
“No. No. Nobody can make that final decision. We’ve had 15 years of losing, six straight years of being in the cellar. If he picks the man it will be the same old story. Business as usual.”
Tim Mara, who was titled as vice president and treasurer, retorted, “No. No. Nobody can make that final decision. We’ve had 15 years of losing, six straight years of being in the cellar. If he picks the man it will be the same old story. Business as usual.”
Wellington said, “I think there is a difference between an equal voice and the ability to immobilize an organization.”
Don Smith, the Giants former press director said, “The inviolate Mara bond has come apart. Blood was always thicker than water. The sense of family is being disrupted, shattered in the press.”
Tim Mara said, “Of course, there’s some strain. It’s been going on for some time now, and now it’s out. Now we have to go from here.”
Climbing the Mountain – New York Giants 1979-1985 - ( New Window )
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...
This by a mile...
I agree 1000 percent. But it was the Saints who chose Rodgers that made our decision easy. If we had the first pick, I wonder who we would have chosen.
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In comment 13933768 short lease said:
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In comment 13933716 capegman said:
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With the above commenter. Drafting LT.
Yea but, didn't George Young draft LT? No GY .... no LT maybe?
The only person in the world who wasn't drafting LT was the GM of the Saints.
Before Young - if Tim Mara and Wellington Mara were still running the draft - you cannot guarantee me LT would have been their pick. Even if they were both convinced that LT should have been the pick (not likely - the Giants had a great group of LBs at the time) - out of spite (if nothing else) 1 of them would have voted against him for no other reason than the other one - wanted him. IIRC - it was that bad.
IMO - The league forcing the Giants to hire a proper GM was way more important than drafting LT. Now, GY drafting a football God (LT) was gravy ... a great 1-2 punch proper GM + greatest defensive player of all time).
Sorry, but when the Saints picked Rogers, the entire world went silent. Dumbfounded. LT wasn't some type of secret (although nobody could have foreseen that he would become was the greatest player in history the very second his feet touched the turf of the Giants practice field)
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“I was right in the middle of it, to tell you the truth,” [John]Mara said. “We had some disagreement at the time [1997] about whether Bill should be brought back. And my father was very anxious to have him back. [Former general manager] George Young was not anxious to have him back. So [late co-owner] Bob Tisch was kind of right in the middle of it, and I was kind of right in the middle of it. Bob kind of changed his mind at the last second and said, ‘OK, if you want to bring him back.’ In the meantime, George had already walked down the hall. Actually, I think it was the first time in his life that he ever ran. He ran down the hallway, and by the time I got a call from Bob Tisch saying, ‘Listen, if you want Bill Parcells back, I’m not going to block it,’ I ran down the hallway to get George, and he had already made the call and offered the job to Fassel. And we didn’t think it was right to withdraw the offer at that point in time. So that’s what ended up happening."
The Tuna that got away - ( New Window )
The really dumb thing about this was that Young was retiring after 1997 season anyway.
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In comment 13933567 Jimmy Googs said:
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...
This by a mile...
I agree 1000 percent. But it was the Saints who chose Rodgers that made our decision easy. If we had the first pick, I wonder who we would have chosen.
Alternatively, you might say the worst decision in draft history may have been New Orleans selecting Rogers over LT despite the fact that Rogers wasn't a bad player... But the Giants selected a Linebacker even though they were probably then stronger and deeper at that position than any other position on the team.
Proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that you always take best player available especially if you think it is a transcendent talent....
From truebluelarry's "Climbing the Mountain – New York Giants 1979-1985":
"Getting “all” to agree was going to prove to be the most elusive of ideals.
Robustelli, fed up with the infighting, walked away from the Giants on December 31, leaving the quarrelsome Maras on their own. He wrote years later, “During my five seasons as director of operations, the games played behind the games played on Sunday were far tougher and costlier to the franchise than anything that happened on the field. Like the games on the field, there were soon two teams in our office.”
The New Year was filled with rumors and innuendo. Press conferences were called and little substance was revealed, consternation abounded, and potential candidates vanished. Paterno, who wanted full control of the football organization, ultimately refuted the Giants courting, while Walsh went to San Francisco. Reeves felt uncomfortable with the feuding owners and chose to remain in Dallas. The frustration boiled over. Tim Mara said of Paterno, “I don’t know what job or jobs my uncle offered him. My gut reaction is that Joe Paterno never was going to come to the Giants anyway.”
All the elder Mara would say is, “We don’t always agree.”
Rumors from unnamed sources suggested the two owners were conducting their own searches in solitary.
Wellington declared, “I am the president of the Giants. The office was given me by election. Even though the shareholding is equal, having been made president, I’m chief operating officer. It’s my responsibility, when there is a deadlock, to make the final decision…I want to get a man who can run this franchise the next 10 or 20 years, a good man whom I can trust.”
“No. No. Nobody can make that final decision. We’ve had 15 years of losing, six straight years of being in the cellar. If he picks the man it will be the same old story. Business as usual.”
Tim Mara, who was titled as vice president and treasurer, retorted, “No. No. Nobody can make that final decision. We’ve had 15 years of losing, six straight years of being in the cellar. If he picks the man it will be the same old story. Business as usual.”
Wellington said, “I think there is a difference between an equal voice and the ability to immobilize an organization.”
Don Smith, the Giants former press director said, “The inviolate Mara bond has come apart. Blood was always thicker than water. The sense of family is being disrupted, shattered in the press.”
Tim Mara said, “Of course, there’s some strain. It’s been going on for some time now, and now it’s out. Now we have to go from here.” Climbing the Mountain – New York Giants 1979-1985 - ( New Window )
Then count me as delusional fan numero uno!
George Young is a tale of two decades. He was a genius in the 1980s and deserves all of the credit for selecting LT - but let's be clear, LT made George Young a genius. And it was LT who transformed this franchise into one of the top super bowl era NFL franchises instead of being a perennial Cleveland Browns look-alike franchise...
In the 1990s, George Young was a disaster. By letting Belichick go in favor of Ray Handley and making Cedric Jones his final top draft choice in 1996, who became the greatest bust selection in Giants history, he set the franchise back a decade. If Belichick had just stayed here, he would still be our head coach today and I am guessing we would have had at least two more Lombardi trophys and a much stronger winning tradition...
No banner, no George Young, no Coach Ray with the gunfighter eyes, no Tuna, maybe no LT.
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successful is delusional.
From truebluelarry's "Climbing the Mountain – New York Giants 1979-1985":
"Getting “all” to agree was going to prove to be the most elusive of ideals.
Robustelli, fed up with the infighting, walked away from the Giants on December 31, leaving the quarrelsome Maras on their own. He wrote years later, “During my five seasons as director of operations, the games played behind the games played on Sunday were far tougher and costlier to the franchise than anything that happened on the field. Like the games on the field, there were soon two teams in our office.”
The New Year was filled with rumors and innuendo. Press conferences were called and little substance was revealed, consternation abounded, and potential candidates vanished. Paterno, who wanted full control of the football organization, ultimately refuted the Giants courting, while Walsh went to San Francisco. Reeves felt uncomfortable with the feuding owners and chose to remain in Dallas. The frustration boiled over. Tim Mara said of Paterno, “I don’t know what job or jobs my uncle offered him. My gut reaction is that Joe Paterno never was going to come to the Giants anyway.”
All the elder Mara would say is, “We don’t always agree.”
Rumors from unnamed sources suggested the two owners were conducting their own searches in solitary.
Wellington declared, “I am the president of the Giants. The office was given me by election. Even though the shareholding is equal, having been made president, I’m chief operating officer. It’s my responsibility, when there is a deadlock, to make the final decision…I want to get a man who can run this franchise the next 10 or 20 years, a good man whom I can trust.”
“No. No. Nobody can make that final decision. We’ve had 15 years of losing, six straight years of being in the cellar. If he picks the man it will be the same old story. Business as usual.”
Tim Mara, who was titled as vice president and treasurer, retorted, “No. No. Nobody can make that final decision. We’ve had 15 years of losing, six straight years of being in the cellar. If he picks the man it will be the same old story. Business as usual.”
Wellington said, “I think there is a difference between an equal voice and the ability to immobilize an organization.”
Don Smith, the Giants former press director said, “The inviolate Mara bond has come apart. Blood was always thicker than water. The sense of family is being disrupted, shattered in the press.”
Tim Mara said, “Of course, there’s some strain. It’s been going on for some time now, and now it’s out. Now we have to go from here.” Climbing the Mountain – New York Giants 1979-1985 - ( New Window )
Then count me as delusional fan numero uno!
George Young is a tale of two decades. He was a genius in the 1980s and deserves all of the credit for selecting LT - but let's be clear, LT made George Young a genius. And it was LT who transformed this franchise into one of the top super bowl era NFL franchises instead of being a perennial Cleveland Browns look-alike franchise...
In the 1990s, George Young was a disaster. By letting Belichick go in favor of Ray Handley and making Cedric Jones his final top draft choice in 1996, who became the greatest bust selection in Giants history, he set the franchise back a decade. If Belichick had just stayed here, he would still be our head coach today and I am guessing we would have had at least two more Lombardi trophys and a much stronger winning tradition...
perhaps you should look at the whole body of work in those '90s drafts. Do the names Barber, Toomer, Strahan, Armstead, Sparks, Hamilton, Braatzke, Sehorn, Garnes, Oben, Hilliard, Way, Randolph, McCaffrey ring a bell? And Hilliard was his last #1 in 1997.
What set them back was his inability to deal with FA and the salary cap. And yes, he did not think Belichick was HC material. Bad call.
perhaps you should look at the whole body of work in those '90s drafts. Do the names Barber, Toomer, Strahan, Armstead, Sparks, Hamilton, Braatzke, Sehorn, Garnes, Oben, Hilliard, Way, Randolph, McCaffrey ring a bell? And Hilliard was his last #1 in 1997.
What set them back was his inability to deal with FA and the salary cap. And yes, he did not think Belichick was HC material. Bad call.
GY couldn't find the right QB either. Dave Brown was a disaster. And then there was the mix of Kannel, Graham, etc.
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In comment 13933985 Victor in CT said:
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successful is delusional.
From truebluelarry's "Climbing the Mountain – New York Giants 1979-1985":
"Getting “all” to agree was going to prove to be the most elusive of ideals.
Robustelli, fed up with the infighting, walked away from the Giants on December 31, leaving the quarrelsome Maras on their own. He wrote years later, “During my five seasons as director of operations, the games played behind the games played on Sunday were far tougher and costlier to the franchise than anything that happened on the field. Like the games on the field, there were soon two teams in our office.”
The New Year was filled with rumors and innuendo. Press conferences were called and little substance was revealed, consternation abounded, and potential candidates vanished. Paterno, who wanted full control of the football organization, ultimately refuted the Giants courting, while Walsh went to San Francisco. Reeves felt uncomfortable with the feuding owners and chose to remain in Dallas. The frustration boiled over. Tim Mara said of Paterno, “I don’t know what job or jobs my uncle offered him. My gut reaction is that Joe Paterno never was going to come to the Giants anyway.”
All the elder Mara would say is, “We don’t always agree.”
Rumors from unnamed sources suggested the two owners were conducting their own searches in solitary.
Wellington declared, “I am the president of the Giants. The office was given me by election. Even though the shareholding is equal, having been made president, I’m chief operating officer. It’s my responsibility, when there is a deadlock, to make the final decision…I want to get a man who can run this franchise the next 10 or 20 years, a good man whom I can trust.”
“No. No. Nobody can make that final decision. We’ve had 15 years of losing, six straight years of being in the cellar. If he picks the man it will be the same old story. Business as usual.”
Tim Mara, who was titled as vice president and treasurer, retorted, “No. No. Nobody can make that final decision. We’ve had 15 years of losing, six straight years of being in the cellar. If he picks the man it will be the same old story. Business as usual.”
Wellington said, “I think there is a difference between an equal voice and the ability to immobilize an organization.”
Don Smith, the Giants former press director said, “The inviolate Mara bond has come apart. Blood was always thicker than water. The sense of family is being disrupted, shattered in the press.”
Tim Mara said, “Of course, there’s some strain. It’s been going on for some time now, and now it’s out. Now we have to go from here.” Climbing the Mountain – New York Giants 1979-1985 - ( New Window )
Then count me as delusional fan numero uno!
George Young is a tale of two decades. He was a genius in the 1980s and deserves all of the credit for selecting LT - but let's be clear, LT made George Young a genius. And it was LT who transformed this franchise into one of the top super bowl era NFL franchises instead of being a perennial Cleveland Browns look-alike franchise...
In the 1990s, George Young was a disaster. By letting Belichick go in favor of Ray Handley and making Cedric Jones his final top draft choice in 1996, who became the greatest bust selection in Giants history, he set the franchise back a decade. If Belichick had just stayed here, he would still be our head coach today and I am guessing we would have had at least two more Lombardi trophys and a much stronger winning tradition...
perhaps you should look at the whole body of work in those '90s drafts. Do the names Barber, Toomer, Strahan, Armstead, Sparks, Hamilton, Braatzke, Sehorn, Garnes, Oben, Hilliard, Way, Randolph, McCaffrey ring a bell? And Hilliard was his last #1 in 1997.
What set them back was his inability to deal with FA and the salary cap. And yes, he did not think Belichick was HC material. Bad call.
George Young was a great GM - no one disagrees. But the OP asked what was the most important decision in the history of the franchise and it has been unequivocally LT.
And yes, those are some good draft picks in the 1990s. But the 1995 and 1996 drafts were unmitigated disasters. He took Wheatley in 1995 over two HOF running backs, Curtis Martin and Terrell Davis. And then took Jones in 1996 over HOFers Marvin Harrison and Ray Lewis. Unfortunately, the saying "its not how you start, its how you finish" works against George Young in those two final drafts...
Ugh - I completely forgot about that Thomas Lewis draft pick... that was brutal too!
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In comment 13933784 baadbill said:
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In comment 13933768 short lease said:
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In comment 13933716 capegman said:
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With the above commenter. Drafting LT.
Yea but, didn't George Young draft LT? No GY .... no LT maybe?
The only person in the world who wasn't drafting LT was the GM of the Saints.
Before Young - if Tim Mara and Wellington Mara were still running the draft - you cannot guarantee me LT would have been their pick. Even if they were both convinced that LT should have been the pick (not likely - the Giants had a great group of LBs at the time) - out of spite (if nothing else) 1 of them would have voted against him for no other reason than the other one - wanted him. IIRC - it was that bad.
IMO - The league forcing the Giants to hire a proper GM was way more important than drafting LT. Now, GY drafting a football God (LT) was gravy ... a great 1-2 punch proper GM + greatest defensive player of all time).
Sorry, but when the Saints picked Rogers, the entire world went silent. Dumbfounded. LT wasn't some type of secret (although nobody could have foreseen that he would become was the greatest player in history the very second his feet touched the turf of the Giants practice field)
If you are really going to try and tell me that the LT pick was automatic (at a time when we already had Brad Van Pelt, Brian Kelly, and Harry Carson as LB's) if... IF TIM and WELLINGTON were still running the team then I am not sure you know the entire history of this team and we are just going to have to agree to disagree.