Who's the closest player to Lawrence Taylor

Derrick Thomas was his closest imo..Ray Lewis played a different role

Probably. And he couldn�t hold LT�s jock.

We think alike on this one. (Grin)

In comment 13946115 Carl in CT said:

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We think alike on this one. (Grin)

👍👍

Derrick Thomas and Von Miller

Derrick Thomas is the closest in terms of get off, with good bend.

LT would run through OT and could split double teams.

Day's game was mostly speed. LT was pure violence and intimidation...along with speed.

But as far as greatest defensive player closest to him, I'd have to say Reggie White.

Demarcus Ware in his prime. 2007-2011 era

.

closest IMO today is Kahlil Mack.

Maybe people don't see him much on the east coast, but he's awesome.

however for the sake of discussion, I thought we may have been seeing the next LT during Jevon Kearse' rookie season. He transformed that team, won defensive rookie of the month in all but 1 month, i believe was runner up defensive player of the year. He also helped that team get to the super bowl and absolutely dominated in the "music city miracle" game in the playoffs.
Unreal speed for his size.
14.5 sacks as a rookie and 6 forced fumbles (he seemed to have the LT penchant for the strip sack).
Just amazing to watch that year....then he starting falling off, followed by injuries.
Anyway, just thought i would add his name to the mix.

:)
Link - ( New Window )

LT invented and perfected it.

Zero duplicators.

They broke the mold with LT. He changed the game. He dominated a game from the defensive side of the ball. He could win a game with his presence.

LOL. Uh, NFW.

Charles Haley was the same relentless type to a degree. But fell short of LT's explosion.

Ronnie Lott is the most underrated defensive player in history. All Pro at three different positions. One of the great game changers ever. And worthy of being in this discussion from the standpoint of disrupting an offense.

For about six years, and playing the same position as lT during the same time, Pat Swilling played the position about as good as you can play it being a mortal...

compares to LT. He changed the way offensive football was played (advent of the H-Back).

Very few people had the skills that LT had, the speed, the power, the quickness and the size. He was gifted with skills sets that were almost unmatched in the NFL making him almost physically impossible to stop.

Very few people had the passion LT had, the never ending, all out drive to destroy the other team. Not beat them, destroy them. He never stopped and if he got truly mad, he took his drive to an unseen level and he could be one mean SOB. When people are at that level of meanness, they are hard to deal with (in any walk of life, not just the NFL).

Some people are blessed with one of these qualities and some people are blessed with the other. No one that I know of was blessed with so much of both.

No one.

of defensive impact irespective of play-style, I'll go with JJ Watt. I really hope he stays healthy because he has had one hell of a career so far.

One of a kind and they threw away the mold.

because it implies there is someone who can even be compared. There simply isn't.

But the player who, to my eyes, made me think of the impact of LT, was a Parcells' draft pick for the Cowboys ... Demarcus Ware.

Maybe? I didn't see him play, but in the highlights he looked pretty brutal. Including head slapping and clothes-lining guys in ways that were illegal by the time LT played.

no one. LT simply put was the greatest defensive player to ever play the game of football.

as someone who watched every single LT game ever played in the Pros. There is no one like him.. period..

Intimidated a team as much as LT and changed the tenor of the game. For example, Ware put up good numbers, would routinely turn Diehl into a turnstyle, but compared to LT exploding on a QB blinside, Ware would gently caress Eli and lovingly lay him down on the grass. It's like meh he stops a drive or two, meanwhile LT is giving opposing qbs PTSD, making linemen panic and consider retirement like Anton Cigurgh.

They are very close.

Played pretty much the same time as LT, was like a poor man's version but he was as close as i've seen

is the closest. Similar size and speed but Taylor was stronger.
Charles Haley is a good opinion, also without the speed or coverage ability - but pass rush yes.

In comment 13946182 George from PA said:

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They are very close.

Very close ... friends?
Because they sure as hell aren't very close in the impact their play had on the football field (and I'm not downplaying Carson ... he was a fabulous middle lb ... but he was no LT)

including 1986, it was Carl Banks. He was amazing and the danger they caused in stereo was too much for everyone else in the leage. Brooks and Tippet were versions of LT lite. Beatlemania was closer to the reall Beatles than either of them were to being LT.

Reggie White, Deion Sanders and Ray Lewis are among the best defensive players.

In comment 13946191 Phil in LA said:

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including 1986, it was Carl Banks. He was amazing and the danger they caused in stereo was too much for everyone else in the leage. Brooks and Tippet were versions of LT lite. Beatlemania was closer to the reall Beatles than either of them were to being LT.

Banks and LT were very different players. Banks was the best I've ever seen holding the edge. But he wasn't LT.

If you want to pick a Giants linebacker from that era who reminded people of LT, it would be one pre-season of Andy Headen (I'm not sure what year it was ... I'm thinking 1985... but there was a pre-season where Headen was all world in what he did ... of course, it was only pre-season ... sooooo...)

In all the time since he was drafted, there is not a single player I've seen who could completely dictate a games like him and they includes Reggie White. And, it's not even close.

There have been some great athletes since him, but I also haven't seen anyone able to do the things he could play in and play out.

I was surprised by how big he is, both tall and massive.

Our high school coach played a few years at OT in the NFL in the late '50's, and LT would make him look like a little kid.

But Banks spent a lot of time in the backfield in 1986, too. Usually they were more different, but that year they were both amazing.

the Deacon Jones comparison. he played DE, but he was relentless in pursuit of the QB and he was a wrecking ball like LT.

In comment 13946210 Phil in LA said:

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But Banks spent a lot of time in the backfield in 1986, too. Usually they were more different, but that year they were both amazing.

I loved Banks. Still think he would be in the HOF today if not for the fact two of his line-mates are already in.

In comment 13946203 Matt M. said:

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In all the time since he was drafted, there is not a single player I've seen who could completely dictate a games like him and they includes Reggie White. And, it's not even close. There have been some great athletes since him, but I also haven't seen anyone able to do the things he could play in and play out.

I mentioned above, check out what Pat Swilling was doing playing the same position in the mid to late '80s. He was nasty. Parcells was very high on him...even told LT once that "the other 56"in New Orleans was basically just as good...

From 89-92 was a beast incl 2X First-team All-Pro. But still nowhere the run defender that LT was.

In comment 13946125 Eman11 said:

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But as far as greatest defensive player closest to him, I'd have to say Reggie White.

And Reggie White could have been a Giant!! Giants selected Gary Zimmerman in the USFL draft #3. White went #4.

In comment 13946235 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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From 89-92 was a beast incl 2X First-team All-Pro. But still nowhere the run defender that LT was.

Right. But Swilling wasn't bad.

nobody since LT has been as dominant. including Reggie White

But JJ Watt comes to mind. He wrecked games and doesn�t seem to take plays off. Hurt lately...

In comment 13946276 markky said:

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nobody since LT has been as dominant. including Reggie White

The OP asked since LT, so as great and dominant as Deacon was, he doesn't count. At least as far as this thread goes.

Also he asked for closest to not "as" so IMO Reggie is the closest. He was a dominant defensive player. Not as dominant as LT but more than anyone else I can think of.

nobody could beat him.


Go to 3:00 for the Saints game - ( New Window )

revolutionized a position like he did. Maybe Deion Sanders with the way he could take away half of the field. Maybe Peyton Manning or Jerry Rice. Manning changed the way QBs play where he was calling everything at the line. Jerry Rice was a modern day receiver with 30 years ago.

would kick LT's ass.

he is not close. LT transformed the game and no one has scratched the surface of his original blueprint...

Trying to think of someone comparable in all of sports but it is difficult. Best players tend to have close comparisons - Tiger/Jack... Wilt/Michael/Lebron...

Maybe Babe Ruth? or Wayne Gretzky?

Kinda

In comment 13946401 the mike said:

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he is not close. LT transformed the game and no one has scratched the surface of his original blueprint... Trying to think of someone comparable in all of sports but it is difficult. Best players tend to have close comparisons - Tiger/Jack... Wilt/Michael/Lebron... Maybe Babe Ruth? or Wayne Gretzky?

ALI

In comment 13946130 Grey Pilgrim said:

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.

I watched both in their prime and as great as RW was, LT just dominated games. I've seen other players including Reggie White, Charles Haley and Bruce Smith, dominate games, but not on a regular basis like LT did.

Maybe the place to look is on the offensive side of the ball, Brady?

In comment 13946401 the mike said:

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he is not close. LT transformed the game and no one has scratched the surface of his original blueprint... Trying to think of someone comparable in all of sports but it is difficult. Best players tend to have close comparisons - Tiger/Jack... Wilt/Michael/Lebron... Maybe Babe Ruth? or Wayne Gretzky?

Gretzky perhaps. "The Great One" is about the best nickname one can have...

like him before or since imho

In comment 13946193 Ira said:

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Reggie White, Deion Sanders and Ray Lewis are among the best defensive players.

Lewis is ansure HOF level guy but he�s not in the same class as Sanders or White either. People forget or just don�t realize how good Ronnie Lott was. We can name a Few guys who were studs all day. White to me is the only guy who was close to LT as a force

Not for any extended period of time. There were guys that had a good stretch here and there, where you thought maybe we were witnessing another all timer, but they never lasted.

On offense, there was this one guy that was a threat every time he touched the ball, where entire defenses had to focus on him every single play because he was so dangerous. Then, he tried to kiss a kicking net and half his fanbase wanted him run out of town.

to grasp what LT was on the field. It wasn't just that he was dominating (though he was), it was that teams would game plan to stop him and they'd have no answer for him. He'd still ruin the other team's game.

Other teams would still score on the Giants, and the Giants didn't win all the time, but LT simply would do things on the field that no one else did or had ever done.. Not Butkus, not Huff, not Ham or Lambert, and after LT, not Banks (great, but different) or Thomas or Ware or Miller or Mack or Watt or anyone else.

The Village Voice, which in the 80s had a very smart and well-written sports page, described how disruptive he was at his first practices with the Giants, and said something to the effect of "The NFL's Nuclear Age had arrived."

I agree that the only other guy I can remember who could consistently be that disruptive was maybe Reggie White, but even that's a stretch.

of LT like. Sometimes even a season, but no one creates the fear and dumbfounds coaches on both sides(including Bill and Little Bill) like LT did. At times the Giants coaches had to just turn him loose, not knowing what he was going to do, in order to allow him to have the maximum impact. The other players had to adjust to this because they did not know what he was going to do. No one ever complained on the Giants side of the football.

there never will be another LT. He was by far the best defensive player in terms of impact and ability to make plays from anywhere on the field that I've ever seen. He also did it for an extended period of time. IMHO he was a cut above other defensive players when he played the game.

Guys that came close: Derrick Thomas, Pat Swilling, maybe Von Miller, all have come close for shorter periods of time.

Stuff as well. So Brian Urlacher might be a distant #3 contender.

But in terms of doing that -and- defeating left Tackles 1-1....that prototype is harder to find now that your left tackle average weight went from 1982 275lbs or something to today 320lbs or something.

So. What it takes to beat today's Tackles and also deep zone PD your on the horns of a dilemma, prototype wise.

Thinking we try Carter as an ILB and teach him the short zone PD game...4.43 speed at 6'5".

In the end, the closest comparison at the time from a pass-rushing LB perspective was absolutely Pat Swilling.

But Swilling was well short of LT when you factor in run stoppage and getting down the LOS to tackle ball carriers...

The olbs attack both the interior and the exterior gaps and yet

the ilbs function more as pass defenders and run to sideline run containers,

putting great emphasis on your DTS of front 3 to maintain run defense inside as well as create pass rush.

So speed at ILB becomes paramount. And Carter has it

get the deep low to the ground bend, great closing speed, but wasn't destructive like LT was. OL and pass blockers would literally go flying in all directions when LT hit them.

Khalil Mack is the only modern comparison legit to my eye, but tough to gauge two players 30 years apart. LT's destructive quality and impact was one of a kind.

In comment 13946620 wgenesis123 said:

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of LT like. ... At times the Giants coaches had to just turn him loose, not knowing what he was going to do, in order to allow him to have the maximum impact...

Not "at times" ... LT, very early in his career, was allowed to line up where ever he wanted ... he'd line up on one side of the LOS, look at the offensive formation, and suddenly move to the complete opposite side ... or the middle ... and every team keyed their offensive formation/blocking assignments to try to adjust to where LT lined up (at the end of the day, it really didn't matter much, LT defeated virtually all efforts to block him, typically a triple team of OT, TE and RB combination)

In comment 13946143 Tim in JTown said:

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:) Link - ( New Window )

I like the way you think

But -if- you use what for us is a heavy front 3:

Hill/Harrison/Tomlinson

And your ilbs are ogletree and Carter, being tasked with blanket TE and RB routes, or hover in short zone and ball hunt, also run to sideline protect edge vs runs. Not so.much vs interior runs.

That leaves both of your two oversized olb/4/3 de types to attack any gap or the edge by set piece plans long coordinated with the front 3.

So, with the LT comp, you get your 287 lb outside lb and keep the speed lbs on the inside.

So it's a very different scheme, my guess.

Linked here at BBI:

In addition to olb. De, Jack.

Carter 'has played nickle' ( wtf!) And ILB.

So possibly starting at ILB next to ogletree with a heavy front and PD duties in the mix.

If it works that's a huge draft steal. With that speed and length.

About shifting PD to ILB and etc.

But if you isolate response ability (PD) from title (inside/outside,) the Carter Comp might be Myles Jack

in that he covers TE RB routes and when he does rush it's more a pure unnacounted for blitz as opposed to an additional DL piece.

So.

Carter = Myles Jack?

In comment 13946689 Jimmy Googs said:

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In the end, the closest comparison at the time from a pass-rushing LB perspective was absolutely Pat Swilling. But Swilling was well short of LT when you factor in run stoppage and getting down the LOS to tackle ball carriers...

Exactly.

If you look at the roster.

Many of the olbs are big. Bigger than many 4/3 DEs . bigger than some of our own dlers (such as wynn, etc).

So it's obviously the case that they don't require pure unaccounted for blitz opportunities. They can function as linesmen to a degree, stop runs.so the variability is almost infinite up there.

Now, look at the only current scheme specific ILB. Ogletree. A cover player. Good playing in space.

This is a new thing for us here.

He was a sensational athlete, but that's not what made him so amazing. There have been other unreal athletes in this league who were nowhere near his equal as a player. What truly set him apart was the maniacal way he played. They talk about a guy's motor - LT's motor was redlining from the opening kickoff to the final gun. He played all out all the time, with no regard for his own well being, and he was the most supernaturally tough player I've ever seen.

I have never seen a player instill the kind of real fear into the opposition the way LT did. I can recall Ron Jaworski only staring at LT, transfixed, while under center pre-snap. I can also recall the Giants' streak of QB knockouts ----that was really the Golden Age of Giants Defense and it all centered on LT and his merry band of men.

In comment 13946792 Greg from LI said:

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He was a sensational athlete, but that's not what made him so amazing. There have been other unreal athletes in this league who were nowhere near his equal as a player. What truly set him apart was the maniacal way he played. They talk about a guy's motor - LT's motor was redlining from the opening kickoff to the final gun. He played all out all the time, with no regard for his own well being, and he was the most supernaturally tough player I've ever seen.

All this AND: he was the smartest player on the defense. He knew where everyone else should be. Banks always says that LT never gets enough credit for that. All the stories about him sleeping in meetings, they leave out the part where BB wakes him up, and he completely diagrams the entire play.

Are the TFLs where he is being blocked but still manages to maneuver himself and the blocker into the path of a RB and still lunge after the RBs feet and make the TFL while still being blocked. It displays LTs incredible strength, maniacal determination, and revolutionary high football IQ and sense of geometry.

Imagine if your the rb, you must be terrified to see this maniac seemingly blocked, use a blocker tomaneuver and trap you, and than make a crazy dive at you trying to shatter both your ankles.

Btw Kevin Greene was the most reminiscent of LT for me.

In comment 13946113 Big Blue '56 said:

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Derrick Thomas was his closest imo..Ray Lewis played a different role

For me, this answer.

In comment 13946541 LauderdaleMatty said:

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In comment 13946193 Ira said: Quote: Reggie White, Deion Sanders and Ray Lewis are among the best defensive players. Lewis is ansure HOF level guy but he�s not in the same class as Sanders or White either. People forget or just don�t realize how good Ronnie Lott was. We can name a Few guys who were studs all day. White to me is the only guy who was close to LT as a force

F Ronnie Lott, he was Bavaro's bitch cape.

In comment 13946695 JonC said:

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get the deep low to the ground bend, great closing speed, but wasn't destructive like LT was. OL and pass blockers would literally go flying in all directions when LT hit them. Khalil Mack is the only modern comparison legit to my eye, but tough to gauge two players 30 years apart. LT's destructive quality and impact was one of a kind.

I picture him running over 300lb Joe Jacoby on two consecutive plays then running right around him to sack Theismann.....Joe was one big strong guy and LT ate him up.

He wasn't near LT in terms of pure talent, so he wasn't close to the same player, but he played with similar ferocity.

as the most comparable current player--obviously this was many years ago. It slightly surprised me because I'd thought he would say Ware.

Not close in production and a border line Hall of Famer, Darryl Talley of the great Bills teams of the 90's comes to mind with his style of play. He is the Bills all time leading tackler.

amd redesigned offenses as much as he did defenses. Never been anyone close to doing that since. Hes a different player, but as far as manning his position, inspiting his teammates, instincts, and dominate play id say the closest one to not even close is Ray Lewis. Again, different position, not as good of am all around force, but he was dominant for 10+ years and a great leader

In comment 13946212 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:

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the Deacon Jones comparison. he played DE, but he was relentless in pursuit of the QB and he was a wrecking ball like LT.

But LT was so much more than a pass rusher. He was incredible against the run, could defend the pass against RBs, TEs, and WRs alike, had excellent hands, etc. He was an absolutely unparalleled talent and I still have not seen anyone even close to his equal.

If you look at the highlights, so many if them he is feet off the ground, body completely horizontal to change direction and make the tackle from distance.

Or, on the ground then flying up again. Insane recovery.

But then, out of the list of players who can change direction so dramatically and suddenly fly so far from their base, from where their feet were; how many also have real leverage and power vs OTs?

So that's a good, unusual combo. Also:

The speed to pursue deep throws.

Instincts off the charts in all regards. Mental toughness off the charts.

In comment 13947206 Greg from LI said:

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He wasn't near LT in terms of pure talent, so he wasn't close to the same player, but he played with similar ferocity.

He was a dirty mother epher on the field. One of the league's most reviled players. Constantly crossed the line.

I was first in line drinking the Lavar Arrington Kool-Aid when he was a prospect at PSU. Never came close to living up to his "next LT" billing...

You see safeties doing part of all that, and a handful of big, amazing DEs doing the other part.

So far, as I said, it's been impossible to replicate the 'both parts' in singular players, due to the great increase in average weight of offensive tackles forcing the divergence into more distinct sub sets.

Deacon Jones

Reggie White was great but Deacon instilled fear, as did Butkus.

besides his relentlessness, was that extraordinary closing speed. You just couldn't get away. It was like he was always chasing down hill.

And my guess is over half the time he was performing hung over...

the broke the mold when they made LT.

All the players listed were great players. No One, and I mean no one changed the way FB was played forever like LT.
LT was fast, strong, and relentless. He also had a mean streak. I met Joe Thiesman a few years ago, and he said on every down he had to now where LT was. Entire offensive game plans were designed to neutralize LT.

is twitching reading these posts.

In comment 13947434 3rdnlong said:

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the broke the mold when they made LT. All the players listed were great players. No One, and I mean no one changed the way FB was played forever like LT. LT was fast, strong, and relentless. He also had a mean streak. I met Joe Thiesman a few years ago, and he said on every down he had to now where LT was. Entire offensive game plans were designed to neutralize LT.

Jaworski once called timeout because he couldn't locate LT in the formation. Turned out he was on the bench having some equipment repaired :-)

In comment 13946154 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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of defensive impact irespective of play-style, I'll go with JJ Watt. I really hope he stays healthy because he has had one hell of a career so far.

Glad someone mentioned him. Best defensive player in the league (by far) from 2012-2015. He averaged 17 sacks, 62 tackles, 4 FFs, and 10 PDs (as a DL!) per season during that stretch. Hopefully he can get past these injuries and back to his defensive MVP level.

In comment 13946548 jcn56 said:

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Not for any extended period of time. There were guys that had a good stretch here and there, where you thought maybe we were witnessing another all timer, but they never lasted. On offense, there was this one guy that was a threat every time he touched the ball, where entire defenses had to focus on him every single play because he was so dangerous. Then, he tried to kiss a kicking net and half his fanbase wanted him run out of town.

Gonna be fun watching him now that he has his Le'Veon Bell to draw some of the attention away!

but Von Miller's SB run in 2015 was close to that level. He dominated the conference championship and SB.

and JJ Watt.

The difference with all these guys though, was the attention LT commanded, and the violence at which he played the game. He transcended the game for a window that hasn't been seen since. He could fly, was mean, and he had heavy hands. Tough to replicate that.

In comment 13947654 RAIN said:

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and JJ Watt. The difference with all these guys though, was the attention LT commanded, and the violence at which he played the game. He transcended the game for a window that hasn't been seen since. He could fly, was mean, and he had heavy hands. Tough to replicate that.

I don't think any one of those guys approached what LT could do on the field. Reggie White would be the closest, and it's not close. He had the strength of a man you would expect to be 50 pounds heavier. He had the speed of a guy you would expect of a guy 30-40 pounds lighter. He had a ferocity to his game that has been unmatched. He played that way every play all game. He also had unreal instincts, which get overlooked a lot. He was not always known as the guy with his head buried in the playbook or film, but he knew what he was seeing on the field.

After all that, the level he played at completely changed the game on both sides of the ball, which none of those guys can claim.

OLB on a 3 - 4. Nobody comes close but I'll go with Derrick Thomas and DeMarcus Ware at their peaks.

Who's play impacted football as much as LT? Joe Montana

What athlete dominated their sport like LT? Gretsky

It was against Detroit early in his career. In it, he appears to be ridden just wide enough by the tackle to buy Gary Danielson some time.....but LT manages to grab ahold of his jersey. While still engaged by the lineman, LT simply flings Danielson down to the ground one-handed. Think about the kind of strength required to do that.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13947851 Greg from LI said:

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It was against Detroit early in his career. In it, he appears to be ridden just wide enough by the tackle to buy Gary Danielson some time.....but LT manages to grab ahold of his jersey. While still engaged by the lineman, LT simply flings Danielson down to the ground one-handed. Think about the kind of strength required to do that. Link - ( New Window )

That is simply Camelot. There was nothing like that period of football.

That sack of Neil Lomax at Giants Stadium, midway through the video, looks like LT is fired from a canon. That ability close was just super-natural.

Every once in a while, Clowney shows a similar burst of explosion...btw.

35 years later still gives me the biggest grin

The man was a beast. He wasn't quite as good as LT, but Jesus, if he'd been playing in NY, he'd have gotten all the same accolades.

Honorable mention: E.J. Junior.

is alive today.

The hits I recall him taking while I was sitting in Giants Stadium in the early 80s were sick...

Wilber Marshall. Pretty damn good.

In comment 13947839 Matt M. said:

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In comment 13947654 RAIN said: Quote: and JJ Watt. The difference with all these guys though, was the attention LT commanded, and the violence at which he played the game. He transcended the game for a window that hasn't been seen since. He could fly, was mean, and he had heavy hands. Tough to replicate that. I don't think any one of those guys approached what LT could do on the field. Reggie White would be the closest, and it's not close. He had the strength of a man you would expect to be 50 pounds heavier. He had the speed of a guy you would expect of a guy 30-40 pounds lighter. He had a ferocity to his game that has been unmatched. He played that way every play all game. He also had unreal instincts, which get overlooked a lot. He was not always known as the guy with his head buried in the playbook or film, but he knew what he was seeing on the field. After all that, the level he played at completely changed the game on both sides of the ball, which none of those guys can claim.

Only guy to compare to LT all-sports guy is LeBron

how he watched LT threw a perfect spiral from mid-field into the upper deck of Giants stadium. He said all the other players were just awestruck.

In the years I have been watching the major sports - the only 2 guys who truly were transformational in terms of reshaping how their sport's game was played were Lawrence Taylor and Bobby Orr.