I have never seen a hybrid WCO as incapable of completing a screen pass as the Giants were. It has been a major weakness for years. Usually screen passes are a defense against poor o-lines.
If Barkley solves this problem then it will make a major difference for converting many a first down.
It just left our line without a decent basis from which to improve.
That must be the biggest benefit of run to pass, improvement in line play for both run and pass.
Romo was on the air last year and said one of the huge things that separates QBs is their ability to hit RBs perfectly in stride, and lead them to open spaces. Romo was masterful at this so it's no surprise he sees it as a key trait, but it's something Eli struggles badly with.
My general view is Eli can throw short passes to RBs that may/may not turn into decent plays.
But he indeed does not throw a good screen pass whereas the QB sells the play, properly gets depth in his dropback, has patience to let the rush come in, and then puts proper touch and air on the ball to lead it into the RBs hands.
He does not do this well and really never has...
I think some fans watch Eli throw one at the feet of the RB and think it was a bad throw. The vast majority of those instances Eli is just throwing it away on a broken play rather than turn it over or let the RB get tackled for a five yard loss.
Screen passes become lawn darts when Eli is throwing them
If they know it's not run and are therefore able to get skinny and take risks and blow shit up, by definition your playing WUS ball and the moment of QB delay or hesitation (Waiting for ol to get out there in position) mentioned above won't be there.
Forget the screen. Key to the season is a reliable and legit outside run threat.
Tiki fixed many of Eli's throws.
Screen passes were probably the last thing on a list of 100 of what was wrong with that shit show of an offense.
And please stop with this thing that Eli can't throw a screen. Tiki went bananas with Eli under center and did a lot of damage out of the backfield. Perkins showed promise in 2016 out of the backfield.
Don't expect him to fix all of his problems in one off season, hopefully he can seize the opportunity that Barkley presents as a pass catcher.
Hopefully.
...highly inaccurate.
Can't lead a guy into a spot.
Can't hit a guy AT a spot.
Don't know why it is, but Eli is scary inaccurate in the flat 5-10 yards away from where he stands.
It's gotten to the point where -- he knows he sucks so badly -- that he almost mechanically tries to just push the ball to where he hopes it should go.
the QB and RB. We probably didn't have this in spades last few years.
Quote:
If so, what changed? No Gilbride? No Tiki?
No Snee.
No Seubert.
This is utter bullshit. If anyone is guilty of revisionist history, it is you. I saw every pass Eli threw to Tiki at Giants Stadium live. They missed on a few, but hit on far more. The idea that it was one out of 3 is moronic.
The Giants offensive line has been so bad over the last near-decade, that defenses are getting immediate pressure rushing only 4 guys and are sitting in cover 2.
Defenses have been able to sit back, get pressure with minimal numbers and use linebackers and cornerbacks to take away the flats where Eli would check down or throw a screen.
The efficacy of a screen pass going forward will be less about Barkley's ability to catch the ball, and more about our offensive line's ability to offer a run game and be able to pass-protect.
The Giants offensive line has been so bad over the last near-decade, that defenses are getting immediate pressure rushing only 4 guys and are sitting in cover 2.
Defenses have been able to sit back, get pressure with minimal numbers and use linebackers and cornerbacks to take away the flats where Eli would check down or throw a screen.
The efficacy of a screen pass going forward will be less about Barkley's ability to catch the ball, and more about our offensive line's ability to offer a run game and be able to pass-protect.
Great analysis thanks....
They don't have any metrics to show he's bad at screen passes. He just is. Unless he has a back who can catch. Then he still is, but the wonderback bails him out.
It is past the point of inane hilarity.
He cant throw short or screens
He throws too high on intermediate throws.
How the hell did he ever deserve a chance to start?
They don't have any metrics to show he's bad at screen passes. He just is. Unless he has a back who can catch. Then he still is, but the wonderback bails him out.
It is past the point of inane hilarity.
He cant throw short or screens
He throws too high on intermediate throws.
How the hell did he ever deserve a chance to start?
In fact, I actually think one of his best seasons was 2010. Yes, he threw 25 INTs. But, that was the crazy year with all the tipped passes and wrong routes run. It seemed like he was en route to monster games every week outside the one or two big mental lapses by receivers that year.
The last two years I honestly believe were on McAdoo and Eli has a lot left.
just wish I had a metric...
I think you know the difference, but I'm really not fucking sure.
He needed to get warmed up...
Oh that's right - it is an eli thread and guess who shows up??
Oh that's right - it is an eli thread and guess who shows up??
i love these eli cannot dance threads.
The problem, again, is that our offensive line is atrocious. Defenses had no reason to sell-out to bum-rush the QB. They were getting pressure with minimal effort and could keep linebackers at home.
On top of that, we haven't exactly had the most sure-handed running backs in the receiving game either. I was excited for Vereen, but due to the O-Line issues, everything he could do was negated.
Name Team Yds Total Screen Yds Screen Yds %
Nick Foles PHI 2891 474 16.4%
Alex D. Smith KC 3313 472 14.2%
Andy Dalton CIN 4294 549 12.8%
Chad Henne JAX 3241 409 12.6%
Cam Newton CAR 3379 389 11.5%
Ben Roethlisberger PIT 4276 481 11.2%
Terrelle Pryor OAK 1798 200 11.1%
Aaron Rodgers GB 2536 275 10.8%
Matthew Stafford DET 4647 490 10.5%
Peyton Manning DEN 5477 575 10.5%
Josh McCown CHI 1829 192 10.5%
Robert Griffin III WAS 3203 314 9.8%
Tom Brady NE 4343 410 9.4%
Christian Ponder MIN 1648 149 9.0%
Matt Cassel MIN 1807 151 8.4%
Sam Bradford SL 1689 141 8.3%
Russell Wilson SEA 3357 266 7.9%
Matt Ryan ATL 4515 357 7.9%
Andrew Luck IND 3822 299 7.8%
Geno Smith NYJ 3036 237 7.8%
Jason Campbell CLV 2015 151 7.5%
Philip Rivers SD 4478 326 7.3%
Drew Brees NO 5162 328 6.4%
Matthew McGloin OAK 1547 91 5.9%
Carson Palmer ARZ 4274 217 5.1%
Ryan Tannehill MIA 3913 186 4.8%
Ryan Fitzpatrick TEN 2462 116 4.7%
Tony Romo DAL 3844 175 4.6%
Matt Schaub HST 2310 104 4.5%
Case Keenum HST 1760 74 4.2%
Colin Kaepernick SF 3197 129 4.0%
Jay Cutler CHI 2621 102 3.9%
E.J. Manuel BUF 1972 75 3.8%
Joe Flacco BLT 3912 126 3.2%
Eli Manning NYG 3818 99 2.6%
Kellen Clemens SL 1673 38 2.3%
Mike Glennon TB 2608 39 1.5%
Brandon Weeden CLV 1731 16 0.9%
Here is a video example from 2017 that shows that Eli hasnt progressed much with entirely new players, coaches and schemes
Eli Screen Pass - ( New Window )
Our OL gets pushed back into either Eli or the RB, making the play break down.
Its completely illogical to think Eli can't throw a 5 yard pass
OK, but where did you get this data? His RB's in 2014 were Andre Williams and Rashad Jennings, neither would remind anyone of Tiki. Context matters. If you can point to seasons when he had good receiving backs and still had poor numbers, fine, but cherry-picking one season when he had poor RB's who were even worse receivers isn't exactly fair.
In 2014, Eli only attempted 14 screen to RB's all year. He completed 9 of them for 42 yards.
Such a small sample size. Does Eli not throw the screen well or dis the system rarely utilize them?
Look at bottom of page - ( New Window )
In 2014, Eli only attempted 14 screen to RB's all year. He completed 9 of them for 42 yards.
Such a small sample size. Does Eli not throw the screen well or dis the system rarely utilize them? Look at bottom of page - ( New Window )
"Do you guys even watch the games?"
I also can't believe I have to say this but it warrants it...
"If you watch the games and still think Eli is good at throwing screens...you are the definition of a Giant homer".