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86 Giants D vs. 85 Bears D

BestFeature : 5/3/2018 7:01 pm
I don't know if this is objective fact, especially on a Giants board with most people old enough to remember the 86 Giants, but why is the 86 Giants D not regarded as highly as the 85 Bears D? And is it actually not as good? If it isn't as good, why? The 86 Giants had probably the best defensive player ever and probably the best defensive coach ever. Were the 85 Bears deeper?
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All I know  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/4/2018 10:13 am : link
was that I breathed a huge sigh of relief when the Skins knocked out the Bears. I felt the Giants didn't match up well with the Bears' defense.

As Matt alludes to above, that 1986 Redskins team was damn good. If I was a Skins fans that year, I would have been furious with the Giants.
RE: All I know  
Matt in SGS : 5/4/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13954137 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
was that I breathed a huge sigh of relief when the Skins knocked out the Bears. I felt the Giants didn't match up well with the Bears' defense.

As Matt alludes to above, that 1986 Redskins team was damn good. If I was a Skins fans that year, I would have been furious with the Giants.


I was a little scared of the aura of the Bears thanks to the 1985 shadow. But I remember being more concerned with trying to beat Washington 3 times. I thought the Bears defense could have given the offense problems. But the Bears offense was so bad after McMahon got hurt, that I thought the revenge factor and being at Giants Stadium, the Giants would have dominated them so badly defensively that unless offense turned it over, Chicago wouldn't move the ball at all. The Bears scored 20 or less points 7 times in their final 10 games.

Odds are, the 17-0 score that the NFC Championship Game was in 1986 would have probably been the same score if Chicago was there.
Somewhat tangential  
Matt in SGS : 5/4/2018 10:24 am : link
has a franchise lived more off 1 championship than the Chicago Bears? Because they were so dominant and had so many personalities and the Super Bowl Shuffle and Dikta/Ryan, you would think they were a dynasty. And while they had a great run, holy crap did they screw up something that should have been much better. They lost 3 straight home playoff games from 1986-1988. After a down year in 1989, they bearly beat a bad Saints team at home and the Giants smacked them around 31-3 in 1990. The next year they lost again at home, this time to help in part springboard the Dallas dynasty. And that was it for Ditka.

You would think they would have multiple championships like the Giants, 49ers and Redskins. But nope, just the one.
Matt speaks the truth  
Greg from LI : 5/4/2018 10:27 am : link
The Redskins and the 49ers, two very good offenses, combined to score 3 points on the Giants. The Bears wouldn't have done a damned thing.

Look at the '86 Bears schedule sometime. It might be the weakest NFL schedule I've ever seen. The NFC Central that year had 3 double digit loss teams: the 5-11 Lions, 4-12 Packers, and 2-14 Bucs. The Vikings were 9-7 and pounded the Bears in the Metrodome 23-7. After their second loss, they played seven straight games against teams with losing records. Four of them they won by a FG or less. Their two big wins in that stretch came against the Bucs, who were one of the worst teams in NFL history (-234 point differential).

The Bears turned the ball over 46 times that year! Once McMahon went down for good in week 8, their offense went from mediocre to putrid.
85 Bears better D  
giantstock : 5/4/2018 10:54 am : link
IMO that defense was unreal. I didn't see much of the Ravens defense years later - the team we lost to in the SB.

But the Bears D was the best I'd ever seen.

As for 86 - our team beats the 86 Bears. As Matt was saying - imo we were a better team in 86. I thought the 86 season game vs Minny was the turning point. Then back-to-back-to-back we beat Broncos, 49ers, and Skins. Our defense dictated the play.
The '85 Bears had "it"!  
Doomster : 5/4/2018 1:25 pm : link
Tiger had "it", when he was winning.....

Mike Tyson Had "it".....

Sandy Koufax had "it"....

Whoever was facing them, just were not confident they would win.....
The 85 Bears  
Matt M. : 5/4/2018 1:47 pm : link
But, I feel like the 86 Giants D gets overlooked because they immediately followed the Bears. That was a dominant D in 86.
Except Marino who lit them up  
KWALL2 : 5/4/2018 1:59 pm : link
85 Bears attacked the LOS hard. It was all about the front 7 but they didn’t have the DBs which Marino exposed. Nobody else could.

Giants in playoffs played them tough but our offense wasn’t up for it.

Edge goes to Bears but 86 Giants D was one of the best. 19 games only 2 teams scored more than 20. 7 teams couldn’t get more than 7. Giants played 8 teams with a top 10 scoring offense. Played 8 teams with 10 wins. Played 5 with 11+ win teams and win all of them. Denver twice with 11 wins. And 3 with 12 (Was).

Bears had 9 teams fail to score 7. 3 scored over 20. They had several shutouts. They played 5 teams with top 10 offense. They played 7 teams with 10 wins. They only beat one with 11 wins. NE at 11 wins (2 wins) and Mia at 12 had more than 10 wins.

85 Season should have ended with a Mia and Bears rematch but Dolphins played awful in Champ game. Bears caught a huge break with NE in the SB.

Strength of schedule goes to 86 giants but Bears has better defense because they dominated the LOS like no other team.

RE: Except Marino who lit them up  
Matt M. : 5/4/2018 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13954442 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
85 Bears attacked the LOS hard. It was all about the front 7 but they didn’t have the DBs which Marino exposed. Nobody else could.

Giants in playoffs played them tough but our offense wasn’t up for it.

Edge goes to Bears but 86 Giants D was one of the best. 19 games only 2 teams scored more than 20. 7 teams couldn’t get more than 7. Giants played 8 teams with a top 10 scoring offense. Played 8 teams with 10 wins. Played 5 with 11+ win teams and win all of them. Denver twice with 11 wins. And 3 with 12 (Was).

Bears had 9 teams fail to score 7. 3 scored over 20. They had several shutouts. They played 5 teams with top 10 offense. They played 7 teams with 10 wins. They only beat one with 11 wins. NE at 11 wins (2 wins) and Mia at 12 had more than 10 wins.

85 Season should have ended with a Mia and Bears rematch but Dolphins played awful in Champ game. Bears caught a huge break with NE in the SB.

Strength of schedule goes to 86 giants but Bears has better defense because they dominated the LOS like no other team.
If Rob Carpenter hadn't fumbled away a ball without contact, things may have been different.
The 1986 Giants are really a very underrated team  
Greg from LI : 5/4/2018 3:08 pm : link
They never get mentioned among the greatest Super Bowl champions, but as someone mentioned earlier, they outscored their playoff opponents 105-23, and 7 of those 23 came from a meaningless garbage-time TD Denver against backups while the Giants were already celebrating on the sidelines. By the end of the season they were destroying the opposition.
Speaking of '85  
idiotsavant : 5/4/2018 3:09 pm : link
The Jets 11-5.

Gastineu. Klecko and Lions

Another bad ass line centric team.
I really don't think an '86 rematch would have been a battle  
Matt M. : 5/4/2018 3:09 pm : link
The Giants used the loss to the Bears the year before as a springboard to their own dominating season. The Bears were nowhere near the team they were the year before. I think the combination of revenge factor and the Bears' bad offense would have resulted in the Giants steamrolling them.
Regarding that typical OL player  
idiotsavant : 5/4/2018 3:46 pm : link
As an individual is 40lbs bigger today.

It's interesting that

Jim Burt was only 6'1" 260 (d nose tackle those years)

and yet

Leonard Marshal ( 3/4 de?) 6'3" 288.

Which is weird because even now we have those 3.4 ends, at the moment, exact same size! Even given much huger OL'ers.

Perhaps the 3/4 ends should be 6'3" 333 if we are to run the 3/4 the same way (two gapping) but we won't be, apparently, so I guess it's OK!
RE: The Giants would have kicked the Bears  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/4/2018 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13953477 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
Giants were most devastating in 86! Knocked every QB they played. Bears QB was next, but the Bears punked out

How did the Bears punk out? Did they refuse to play the Giants?

You're a weird dude.
RE: RE: The Giants would have kicked the Bears  
the mike : 5/4/2018 5:31 pm : link
In comment 13954582 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13953477 Elite Mobster #32 said:


Quote:


Giants were most devastating in 86! Knocked every QB they played. Bears QB was next, but the Bears punked out


How did the Bears punk out? Did they refuse to play the Giants?

You're a weird dude.


The Redskins beat the Bears to knock them out of the playoffs in the divisional round which led to us thoroughly whipping the Skins in the NFC championship game. I was thrilled that the Bears were eliminated because the Bears defense was still the most dominant force in the league and would have likely been a tougher matchup for us than the Redskins...
The OP's question was just defenses and the Bears  
Jimmy Googs : 5/4/2018 5:33 pm : link
win that one.

Whether the 86 Giants beat the 85 Bears, I probably go Giants but its not a slam dunk. While i think low scoring of ocurse, I worry that Phil Simms didnt exactly have the quick release and game to match that Bears defense and probably allows a TD himself to the Bears.

Maybe we win 13-10?

RE: RE: RE: The Giants would have kicked the Bears  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/4/2018 5:38 pm : link
In comment 13954695 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13954582 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13953477 Elite Mobster #32 said:


Quote:


Giants were most devastating in 86! Knocked every QB they played. Bears QB was next, but the Bears punked out


How did the Bears punk out? Did they refuse to play the Giants?

You're a weird dude.



The Redskins beat the Bears to knock them out of the playoffs in the divisional round which led to us thoroughly whipping the Skins in the NFC championship game. I was thrilled that the Bears were eliminated because the Bears defense was still the most dominant force in the league and would have likely been a tougher matchup for us than the Redskins...

I know what happened - I just tend to think of "punked out" referring to someone refusing to compete, not getting eliminated by the team that wound up winning the Super Bowl the following year.
RE: The 1986 Giants are really a very underrated team  
TheVette : 5/5/2018 1:01 am : link
In comment 13954532 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
They never get mentioned among the greatest Super Bowl champions, but as someone mentioned earlier, they outscored their playoff opponents 105-23, and 7 of those 23 came from a meaningless garbage-time TD Denver against backups while the Giants were already celebrating on the sidelines. By the end of the season they were destroying the opposition.


Posted this earlier - the 82 point playoff difference is the largest of any SB winner in history.
Ryan's '85 Bears D scheme was created because of his personnel:  
baadbill : 5/5/2018 11:04 am : link
Quote:
To stop a passing game, you can't stop it unless you put pressure on it. Now some people are good enough to put it on with a three-man rush; well, we're not. In fact, I don't know whether we're good enough to put it on with a four-man rush. If we have to send eight, we'll send eight, but we're not going to let you sit back there and pick us apart.


And the thing is, Ryan was true to his word. I swear there were times I think he rushed 11. It was the weirdest looking D I ever saw ... so frequently he had 8+ D'men on the LOS.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: All I know  
short lease : 5/5/2018 6:26 pm : link
In comment 13954137 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
was that I breathed a huge sigh of relief when the Skins knocked out the Bears. I felt the Giants didn't match up well with the Bears' defense.

As Matt alludes to above, that 1986 Redskins team was damn good. If I was a Skins fans that year, I would have been furious with the Giants.


So did I ... but, at the same time I sort of wanted to play them again to see how we would have done. But, it was not meant to be ...
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