I decided to watch the highlights of Geno Smith play his one game for us against the Raiders , and honestly he played decently.
As a franchise QB , there should be no comparison between Eli Manning and Geno Smith.
In one game , Geno Smith put up 17 points...
In the 15 games that Eli Manning started , the team averaged 15 points...
In fact against Arizona they put up a whopping zero points , just peachy...
Now to be fair to Eli , I do remember Evan Engram dropping a handful of Eli's passes when he played with him , so thats not Eli's fault.
Eli Manning is a better QB than this , and I do not want Geno Smith as our starter , but take a look for yourself at Geno's highlights , I posted the link below.
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In comment 13953930 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13953903 LatHarv83 said:
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In comment 13953578 Diver_Down said:
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that a coach knew he was being fired if his plan didn't succeed. So he coached it with the motivation to prove his point that Eli was holding back the offense only for Geno to prove his counter-point. Not sure the point of the mental gymnastics using a sample size of 1 singular game.
Actually, and i knew people would quickly forget these details, but Mcadoo came to Eli telling him they wanted to simply look at other QBs with the team out of contention. The plan was to continue to start Eli but work other guys in. Mcadoo is a clown but this was perfectly understandable. It was Eli who then made the decision to bench himself basically by saying “if i aint finishing i aint starting.” And now on top of fairly being labeled a bad coach, Mcadoo gets an extra layer of hate thrown on top for what was an entirely reasonable request that Eli made into something substantially bigger, caused a fan backlash, and made management tuck their tail so fast it was actually quite disheartening. The unprecedented (for this organization) in-season firing was made, followed by an assurance that Eli was back to play every snap of some meaningless football....You dont run your team like that. Forget Eli or Mcadoo, that whole situation told me John Mara is a pussy
That's bullshit. McAdoo gave Eli the half cocked plan of pulling him at halftime from then on out, whether they were winning or not.
That's bullshit.
They always seem to leave out the "no matter how you are playing Eli, you are still coming out" part.
Geno Smith cultists don't seem to understand Eli has something called integrity. He wasn't going for goof around just to go for a record. It was an absolute cowardly joke for Mara/Reese/Slick to make that offer to Eli.
Eli manned up and made the executive decision.
And then immediately asked the team to put out a press release announcing it.
So confusing.
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In comment 13953578 Diver_Down said:
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that a coach knew he was being fired if his plan didn't succeed. So he coached it with the motivation to prove his point that Eli was holding back the offense only for Geno to prove his counter-point. Not sure the point of the mental gymnastics using a sample size of 1 singular game.
Actually, and i knew people would quickly forget these details, but Mcadoo came to Eli telling him they wanted to simply look at other QBs with the team out of contention. The plan was to continue to start Eli but work other guys in. Mcadoo is a clown but this was perfectly understandable. It was Eli who then made the decision to bench himself basically by saying “if i aint finishing i aint starting.” And now on top of fairly being labeled a bad coach, Mcadoo gets an extra layer of hate thrown on top for what was an entirely reasonable request that Eli made into something substantially bigger, caused a fan backlash, and made management tuck their tail so fast it was actually quite disheartening. The unprecedented (for this organization) in-season firing was made, followed by an assurance that Eli was back to play every snap of some meaningless football....You dont run your team like that. Forget Eli or Mcadoo, that whole situation told me John Mara is a pussy
My gosh how you have things twisted. Do you make thus garbage up as you go or do you just live in la la land??
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but Mcadoo came to Eli telling him they wanted to simply look at other QBs with the team out of contention. The plan was to continue to start Eli but work other guys in.
That was not the plan presented to Eli. Mcadoo told Eli he would be pulled after the first half regardless of the score or how he was playing. Name me one head coach that ever enacted such a ridiculous plan. It was a dumb plan and mcadoo purposely presented such a plan, knowing full well that Eli would refuse it and allow him to put in Geno (not webb).
If mcadoo had ever presented to Eli that he may be pulled later in games if the game gets out of hand, then the narrative and reaction would have been totally different. And no one wanted to see Geno Smith.
The part that is most peculiar was that they went to Eli with it in advance at all. Obviously that was out of respect and in deference to him, but coaches don't typically ask a player's permission to make lineup changes, and they certainly have no obligation to do so.
Besides that though, the amount of venom spewed toward Geno throughout that whole episode, even though he played no part in causing it, sometimes makes me wonder if there are some fans (not suggesting you, TB56) that were more upset by the Giants breaking a different QB-related streak than they were about Eli's streak being broken.
Secondly, I don't remember that much venom towards Geno. I remember McAdoo getting the brunt.
the plan was formulated and implemented poorly, and several key players/mgt/owner made sure the shit hit the fan.
NO ONE came out of that debacle unscathed or without some share of the blame. That includes Eli.
Secondly, I don't remember that much venom towards Geno. I remember McAdoo getting the brunt.
I'm referring more to WFAN/ESPN radio callers, more the shallow end of the IQ pool of sports fans, not necessarily here on BBI.
So I thought really more indirect, and more direct toward Mac and coaches for not having Webb ready whatsoever.
the plan was formulated and implemented poorly, and several key players/mgt/owner made sure the shit hit the fan.
NO ONE came out of that debacle unscathed or without some share of the blame. That includes Eli.
Except there is a contingent that not only doesnt see any door to say a critical word about Eli in that process, but actually hails his decision to not start as a move of integrity and honor lol. For real. This is insanity.
Personally mara came out the worst in all of this. His actions following that seemed completely reactionary and guided by public backlash in the moment
It’s really clear you have a big misunderstanding of the situation. The handling of the eli situation from Reese and McAdoo to Mara was not the same one presented to Eli.
It was a major reason both were fired before the end of the season.
Secondly, I don't remember that much venom towards Geno. I remember McAdoo getting the brunt.
I agree. There were a few posters blaming Geno, but an overwhelming majority expressed sympathy towards the situation he was in. I’m not going to try to assign motive to the handful of anti-Geno posters.
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You call it a diva play. Put his own wishes above the desires of the team, and (if he believes he is the best qb on the roster) the fortunes of the team because him playing some is better than not at all. Phil rivers does that you shit all over him and dont tell me for a second you wouldnt. But eli does it and we are gonna hail it as the ultra integrity move? Im out of this thread. Some of you are legitimately out of your minds
It’s really clear you have a big misunderstanding of the situation. The handling of the eli situation from Reese and McAdoo to Mara was not the same one presented to Eli.
It was a major reason both were fired before the end of the season.
enlighten us please
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In comment 13953975 LatHarv83 said:
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You call it a diva play. Put his own wishes above the desires of the team, and (if he believes he is the best qb on the roster) the fortunes of the team because him playing some is better than not at all. Phil rivers does that you shit all over him and dont tell me for a second you wouldnt. But eli does it and we are gonna hail it as the ultra integrity move? Im out of this thread. Some of you are legitimately out of your minds
It’s really clear you have a big misunderstanding of the situation. The handling of the eli situation from Reese and McAdoo to Mara was not the same one presented to Eli.
It was a major reason both were fired before the end of the season.
enlighten us please
He’s 100% right and you can be enlightened by going back through this very thread because it’s already been mentioned at least once.
enlighten us please
relax.its just sports
2. McAdoo told Eli he was playing the first half only.
Two totally different situations. Like Insaid there was a reason both were fired when they were.
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that a coach knew he was being fired if his plan didn't succeed. So he coached it with the motivation to prove his point that Eli was holding back the offense only for Geno to prove his counter-point. Not sure the point of the mental gymnastics using a sample size of 1 singular game.
Actually, and i knew people would quickly forget these details, but Mcadoo came to Eli telling him they wanted to simply look at other QBs with the team out of contention. The plan was to continue to start Eli but work other guys in. Mcadoo is a clown but this was perfectly understandable. It was Eli who then made the decision to bench himself basically by saying “if i aint finishing i aint starting.” And now on top of fairly being labeled a bad coach, Mcadoo gets an extra layer of hate thrown on top for what was an entirely reasonable request that Eli made into something substantially bigger, caused a fan backlash, and made management tuck their tail so fast it was actually quite disheartening. The unprecedented (for this organization) in-season firing was made, followed by an assurance that Eli was back to play every snap of some meaningless football....You dont run your team like that. Forget Eli or Mcadoo, that whole situation told me John Mara is a pussy
Not entirely correct. The stated reason Eli turned down the idea of playing a half was because he said it wasn't fair to Geno. Eli said he believed one QB should prepare to be the starter and that QB should play the entire game baring injury. We all can chose to believe that or not, but we have no evidence that Eli's rationale for not going along with the plan was that it wasn't fair to Eli.
And I don't think McAdoo's request was reasonable at all. Whomever your starting QB is, should not have to worry about a quick hook. Let him play the game and evaluate after, especially on a 3-13 team.
He s hated because through no fault of his own he broke Eli s streak.
He s a young by quarterback and Giants had every right to see what he could bring to the table
No one is suggesting he s in Eli s league.
Maybe to Mac's benefit it shows he can elevate non-franchise QBs?
Might go to show that there isn't much separation between Geno and Eli?
Might show that Eli's getting old? Maybe he's not his 2011 self still?
It's still just one game, but it does give you some kind of glimpse of what a non-Eli Giants may look like. Eli isn't the end all be all QB forever. Eli hasn't been Eli for a long time now. We've seen glimpses of his former self, but we haven't seen consistency in a long while.
I have a lot of hope that this season will be a good one for him but it's predicated on a few things:
1) The offensive line is average at worst.
2) The running game is in the top 15.
3) Eli can learn to not hear footsteps again. Can he get rid of his PTSD?
We'll see. I think point #3 is why Geno had similar results as Eli. Geno had fresh legs and youth/mobility on his side and didn't hear footsteps every play.
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enlighten us please
relax.its just sports
well played
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In comment 13953903 LatHarv83 said:
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In comment 13953578 Diver_Down said:
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that a coach knew he was being fired if his plan didn't succeed. So he coached it with the motivation to prove his point that Eli was holding back the offense only for Geno to prove his counter-point. Not sure the point of the mental gymnastics using a sample size of 1 singular game.
Actually, and i knew people would quickly forget these details, but Mcadoo came to Eli telling him they wanted to simply look at other QBs with the team out of contention. The plan was to continue to start Eli but work other guys in. Mcadoo is a clown but this was perfectly understandable. It was Eli who then made the decision to bench himself basically by saying “if i aint finishing i aint starting.” And now on top of fairly being labeled a bad coach, Mcadoo gets an extra layer of hate thrown on top for what was an entirely reasonable request that Eli made into something substantially bigger, caused a fan backlash, and made management tuck their tail so fast it was actually quite disheartening. The unprecedented (for this organization) in-season firing was made, followed by an assurance that Eli was back to play every snap of some meaningless football....You dont run your team like that. Forget Eli or Mcadoo, that whole situation told me John Mara is a pussy
That's bullshit. McAdoo gave Eli the half cocked plan of pulling him at halftime from then on out, whether they were winning or not.
That's bullshit.
What you said doesnt contradict anything i said. You actually are just repeating what i said. Mcadoo did not tell eli he was not starting. Eli made that decision. Whats bullshit is you calling what i said “bullshit” while not only not refuting it, but reinforcing it. Weird. Legit weird bro. I know you love Eli but cmon
Im not even looking at this from an eli perspective. Im most disappointed in john mara for being spineless
2. McAdoo told Eli he was playing the first half only.
Two totally different situations. Like Insaid there was a reason both were fired when they were.
so eli made a fool of himself over 30 min of meaningless football.
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1. Reese and McAdoo told Mara that Eli was the starter and that they were going to incorporate the others into games when called for. Meaning when the game was out of hand.
2. McAdoo told Eli he was playing the first half only.
Two totally different situations. Like Insaid there was a reason both were fired when they were.
so eli made a fool of himself over 30 min of meaningless football.
Or was man enough to let Geno have the opportunity to start and finish the game himself. Liek all other QBs do.
Can we establish this as truth? Eli Manning made a personal decision not to start when the team did not have that as their plan...
Ok? Whether the plan was pull him at half, or pull him if theyre getting blown out, whatever. The above is not up for discussion. Not even you are disputing this. Dont tell me im misunderstanding anything unless you can tell me the above is not accurate. You cant tell me that, because its undeniable including by Eli’s own admission. He made a choice to not start. That was my point, everything else is a semantical dance i never participated in
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In comment 13954394 dep026 said:
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1. Reese and McAdoo told Mara that Eli was the starter and that they were going to incorporate the others into games when called for. Meaning when the game was out of hand.
2. McAdoo told Eli he was playing the first half only.
Two totally different situations. Like Insaid there was a reason both were fired when they were.
so eli made a fool of himself over 30 min of meaningless football.
Or was man enough to let Geno have the opportunity to start and finish the game himself. Liek all other QBs do.
hope he mans up next week in his mem fraud case.
I knew benching himself already showed him to be a man of integrity, a line of apologists already made that clear to us. I didnt know it made him such a big tough guy though. Manly enough to let another man start? Lol
Can we establish this as truth? Eli Manning made a personal decision not to start when the team did not have that as their plan...
Ok? Whether the plan was pull him at half, or pull him if theyre getting blown out, whatever. The above is not up for discussion. Not even you are disputing this. Dont tell me im misunderstanding anything unless you can tell me the above is not accurate. You cant tell me that, because its undeniable including by Eli’s own admission. He made a choice to not start. That was my point, everything else is a semantical dance i never participated in
Your phrase "If I aint startin, I aint finishin" puts a selfish spin to what Eli wanted to accomplish. And its to deceive people who are not aware of the situation.
If there has been a situation where a guy accepted being benched at half, even if he played well - please show me. He stated that a QB deserves to play the entire game. And he said if he was not going to finish the game, Geno deserves a chance to start.
McAdoo forced his hand. McAdoo didnt want Eli to start. And the best way he knew he could have this accomplish was to tell Eli he wasnt finishing the game.
Not only is there a reason why he was fired after the game, but there is a reason why he is still unemployed.
You can add to this to my last post as well.
Thank you dep
I knew benching himself already showed him to be a man of integrity, a line of apologists already made that clear to us. I didnt know it made him such a big tough guy though. Manly enough to let another man start? Lol
when dealing with eli cult club,first rule,walk away.
Can we establish this as truth? Eli Manning made a personal decision not to start when the team did not have that as their plan...
Ok? Whether the plan was pull him at half, or pull him if theyre getting blown out, whatever. The above is not up for discussion. Not even you are disputing this. Dont tell me im misunderstanding anything unless you can tell me the above is not accurate. You cant tell me that, because its undeniable including by Eli’s own admission. He made a choice to not start. That was my point, everything else is a semantical dance i never participated in
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Now benching himself is the manly move lol? Omg some of u
I knew benching himself already showed him to be a man of integrity, a line of apologists already made that clear to us. I didnt know it made him such a big tough guy though. Manly enough to let another man start? Lol
when dealing with eli cult club,first rule,walk away.
wish you would.
“Eli did not bench himself. He said he didn't want to start a game.”
It belongs there
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And everyone else who is arguing with my point while not refuting it and only reinforcing it by basically agreeing with what i said and only putting a different spin...
Can we establish this as truth? Eli Manning made a personal decision not to start when the team did not have that as their plan...
Ok? Whether the plan was pull him at half, or pull him if theyre getting blown out, whatever. The above is not up for discussion. Not even you are disputing this. Dont tell me im misunderstanding anything unless you can tell me the above is not accurate. You cant tell me that, because its undeniable including by Eli’s own admission. He made a choice to not start. That was my point, everything else is a semantical dance i never participated in
Your phrase "If I aint startin, I aint finishin" puts a selfish spin to what Eli wanted to accomplish. And its to deceive people who are not aware of the situation.
If there has been a situation where a guy accepted being benched at half, even if he played well - please show me. He stated that a QB deserves to play the entire game. And he said if he was not going to finish the game, Geno deserves a chance to start.
McAdoo forced his hand. McAdoo didnt want Eli to start. And the best way he knew he could have this accomplish was to tell Eli he wasnt finishing the game.
Not only is there a reason why he was fired after the game, but there is a reason why he is still unemployed.
I think you are giving Mac way too much credit here. I highly doubt he anticipated Eli's reaction. The guy was a robot, not Machiavelli
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Has been one of the most disrespected Giants I can remember. Just because we all saw Geno stink for shitty Jets teams, Giants fans act like everything that happened with this guy was an abomination. How about some respect for a veteran #2 QB who earned his position on the depth chart. How could QB evaluation not include him? We would have seen Webb soon enough had the Giants not reversed course.
How did he earn his position on the depth chart? The other veteran they had was terrible and they never let Webb take any snaps (not just in games).
Seems like you just explained it. He was our #2 QB last year. You put a veteran in that position, not a rookie 3rd rounder.
Why does everything we know about a football roster somehow not apply to Geno Smith?
I sinply ask, “can we establish as fact that eli manning made a personal decision not to start”
You call that false. And then in the next breath type “he said he didnt want to start a game”
Lets not argue semantics here. I made one claim. One. Eli manning chose not to start a football game. I have several people telling me im wrong by saying exactly what i said as their counterpoint lol.
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In comment 13954487 LatHarv83 said:
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Now benching himself is the manly move lol? Omg some of u
I knew benching himself already showed him to be a man of integrity, a line of apologists already made that clear to us. I didnt know it made him such a big tough guy though. Manly enough to let another man start? Lol
when dealing with eli cult club,first rule,walk away.
wish you would.
you would miss me,i will stay a while longer.
I would rather evaluate the backups regardless of winning or losing when Eli was taken out. Is it much of an evaluation if the game is out of hand and the D is in a bend, don't break, mode (aka, pad the O stat time)? If I'm the starting QB, I'd rather be yanked while ahead than yanked because I'm not getting the job done (losing). That whole angle, to me, is just a lot of hooey espoused to make Eli or McAdoo look good or bad, rather than a real talking point. What's the argument for leaving Eli in the game if you're ahead? Once the plan was thought up, winning became secondary. McAdoo made it about looking good with a QB other than Eli, but that's a completely different point than when to pull Eli.
What we know is that there was a 3rd string developmental QB on the roster who the HC never prepped to see game action, even when the season was long decided. That is the key to the rest of the events that happened.
Had Webb been prepared and Eli taken out for Webb, there would be hardly any outrage.
When Eli's starting streak ends because of Geno Smith, that's where the outrage cam in.
I'm sure there's some fucking reason people keep trying to establish that Eli "benched himself", but other than using it as a platform to bash him or hold him accountable for the shitshow surrounding Geno, I have no clue what it could be.
McAdoo sat Eli. He was the coach at the time.
I’d like to think Eli is smart enough and man enough to compromise his own ego and let people see him show weakness for the better of the team.
He didn’t do this of course, but it sure as hell ended well. Maybe if Eli plays along with the half-assed mcadoo idea and maybe, just maybe mcadoo isn’t wacked mid season. Thank heavens he was.
I’d like to think Eli is smart enough and man enough to compromise his own ego and let people see him show weakness for the better of the team.
He didn’t do this of course, but it sure as hell ended well. Maybe if Eli plays along with the half-assed mcadoo idea and maybe, just maybe mcadoo isn’t wacked mid season. Thank heavens he was.
I think Eli knew exactly what the aftermath was going to be. And I would add he didn't accept the plan because of his ego, not in spite of it. Nothing wrong with that by the way. All NFL QBs should have an ego.
Now you want to shift the convo to webb, which is fine. Doesnt change the fact that eli told mcadooo he didnt want to start.
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And everyone else who is arguing with my point while not refuting it and only reinforcing it by basically agreeing with what i said and only putting a different spin...
Can we establish this as truth? Eli Manning made a personal decision not to start when the team did not have that as their plan...
Ok? Whether the plan was pull him at half, or pull him if theyre getting blown out, whatever. The above is not up for discussion. Not even you are disputing this. Dont tell me im misunderstanding anything unless you can tell me the above is not accurate. You cant tell me that, because its undeniable including by Eli’s own admission. He made a choice to not start. That was my point, everything else is a semantical dance i never participated in
No, we can't agree. First, it McAdoo did not present to Eli the plan that he and Reese discussed with Mara. Next, Eli did not bench himself. He said he didn't want to start a game knowing he was going to be replaced at half-time regardless of the outcome. McAdoo decided to go with that and bench him outright. It is the coach's call.
The one thing I disagree with you on is that the plan presented to Eli was different than the one presented to Mara. IMO, Mara's attempt to explain it away after the fact as having been a miscommunication always struck me as pure spin doctoring, plain and simple.
What's the point? Is there some tangible impact right now?? McAdoo is gone. Geno is gone. So again - what is the fucking point?