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Eli stat, is this true?

myquealer : 5/4/2018 8:01 pm
"Eli Manning (38.8) wouldíve had a higher passer rating on deep balls last year if every one of his throws landed out of bounds (39.6)."
Pat Thorman Twitter - ( New Window )
Eli will be just fine  
bigbluefan85 : 5/4/2018 10:10 pm : link
When Eli has the proper time ( has not had it in forever) he performs. Giants are working on getting him the protection and running attack he needs to successful. THE CLEANUP CREW is on it!
I know,  
myquealer : 5/4/2018 10:38 pm : link
I support Eli and think the lack of time he had last year was the determining factor in his stats. It's (relatively) easy to not give up a sack for 8 games when your QB thinks he has to throw the ball in 1.5 seconds Hopefully he can regain comfort and confidence in the pocket with a rebuilt offensive line.

But it is surprising that he'd be better off with 100% incompletions on his deep passes last season.
he had a lot of downfield interceptions late in games when we had no  
WillieYoung : 5/5/2018 1:27 am : link
option but to go deep. I'm critical of Eli's performance last year but this is piling on.
He had no WRs last year...along with no time.  
yatqb : 5/5/2018 6:42 am : link
The failures of the OL these last few years also gave him the yips. I hope he gets over that.
The comments below the observation are telling  
RetroJint : 5/5/2018 8:22 am : link
He was pressured on 29% of his drop backs . Yes, say the Eli poop scoopers, ever present to do their life!s purpose- but he had to throw in 2.5... maybe that was him? When Geno got his start , I saw a QB who was standing tall, looking to get the ball downfield . Not a dunk and dunker . Who played WR for Geno ? No itís never Eliís fault .
Maybe the sun was in his eyes  
Jimmy Googs : 5/5/2018 8:28 am : link
...
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/5/2018 8:30 am : link
He had no OL, no running game, & one or two viable throwing options.

I really can't get on Eli for last year. It was a complete mess.
RE: The comments below the observation are telling  
dep026 : 5/5/2018 8:36 am : link
In comment 13955183 RetroJint said:
Quote:
He was pressured on 29% of his drop backs . Yes, say the Eli poop scoopers, ever present to do their life!s purpose- but he had to throw in 2.5... maybe that was him? When Geno got his start , I saw a QB who was standing tall, looking to get the ball downfield . Not a dunk and dunker . Who played WR for Geno ? No itís never Eliís fault .


You are clueless when it comes to football. Really give Giants fans a bad rap. You make eagles and cowboys fans look smart and rational.

Another PFF genius  
SirLoinOfBeef : 5/5/2018 8:47 am : link
They must grow these guys on trees...

We get it. PFF hates the fact we drafted Barkley with our aging QB situation because their metrics are indisputable.

I wish they would stick to fantasy football.
RE: The comments below the observation are telling  
djstat : 5/5/2018 9:36 am : link
In comment 13955183 RetroJint said:
Quote:
He was pressured on 29% of his drop backs . Yes, say the Eli poop scoopers, ever present to do their life!s purpose- but he had to throw in 2.5... maybe that was him? When Geno got his start , I saw a QB who was standing tall, looking to get the ball downfield . Not a dunk and dunker . Who played WR for Geno ? No itís never Eliís fault .
. You saw a QB standing Tall? I saw a QB from noble twice, run a limited route tree and in general play the worst defense in the league. Eli has not had a running game to help since 2012.

In 2017 the WR Eli worked with were all on the shelf week 5. Iíll say it wasnít ALL Eliís fault but of course some was. Curious where your stupid 2.5 security nd time stay came from.
There was a time  
crick n NC : 5/5/2018 9:45 am : link
Many years ago when I took what retro jint said as gospel, he seemed to know X's and O's and also said he was a former coach, to use his words "a damn fine one at that". I have certainly changed my opinion of him over the years. He seems to be a jaded old man who seems to know defense, while missing the mark repeatedly on offensive subjects.
Can we stop with the fantasy that Geno somehow had a great game vs Oak  
PetesHereNow : 5/5/2018 10:01 am : link
First, Oaklandís defense stinks.

Second, through some fluke, the Giants got the ball deep in Oakland territory twice on botched plays by Oakland.

Third, off this performance, is there any NFL team clamoring to have Geno start for them next year. The Chargers are praying Rivers stays healthy so they can leave Geno on the bench.

But you come to BBI and Geno stood tall in the pocket. Give me a break. The team stunk once the injuries hit and we learned McAdoo was an idiot. Aaron Rodgers doesnít lead that team to many wins last year after week 4.
RE: The comments below the observation are telling  
djm : 5/5/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13955183 RetroJint said:
Quote:
He was pressured on 29% of his drop backs . Yes, say the Eli poop scoopers, ever present to do their life!s purpose- but he had to throw in 2.5... maybe that was him? When Geno got his start , I saw a QB who was standing tall, looking to get the ball downfield . Not a dunk and dunker . Who played WR for Geno ? No itís never Eliís fault .
m

What?? Lol
Did I read that correctly?  
bigbluefan85 : 5/5/2018 10:16 am : link
Was that Ben Mcadoo that just wrote that!? My God, please don't tell me you think that Geno Smith is better then Eli Manning... Manning has still got it just needs the line and running game like he had at the beginning of his career. Jerry Reese and Ben Mcadoo chose to ignore the hogs for years. They figured rather then fix the line lets just have Eli throw the ball in 2 to 3 seconds lol.
RE: The comments below the observation are telling  
Racer : 5/7/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13955183 RetroJint said:
Quote:
He was pressured on 29% of his drop backs . Yes, say the Eli poop scoopers, ever present to do their life!s purpose- but he had to throw in 2.5... maybe that was him? When Geno got his start , I saw a QB who was standing tall, looking to get the ball downfield . Not a dunk and dunker . Who played WR for Geno ? No itís never Eliís fault .


I think the only absolute statement one can make is that Eli may never bounce back @37 from a couple of seasons with one eye on the rush..

Eli also flat out missed a lot of throws  
JonC : 5/7/2018 10:22 am : link
he normally made with ease, and missed badly, while the protection was ok. Let's be intellectually honest here ...
RE: Eli also flat out missed a lot of throws  
dep026 : 5/7/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13956661 JonC said:
Quote:
he normally made with ease, and missed badly, while the protection was ok. Let's be intellectually honest here ...


I believe missed throws is all about timing and rhythm. We had none of it last year. Also, I would love to see the downfield passing stats last two years compared to Gilbrides. If you missed only 1-2 throws in Gilbrides downfield - there were a lot more opportunities to hit thme. With McAdoo - it seemed like the opportunities were limited - which made the misses even more glaring.
On some of his misses  
JonC : 5/7/2018 10:34 am : link
it looked like he demonstrated some loss of arm strength to me.
Who was he throwing to?  
Section331 : 5/7/2018 10:35 am : link
I rest my case.
You're slipping  
Jimmy Googs : 5/7/2018 10:35 am : link
it took a whole 10 minutes for you to come in for the rescue...
The other stuff is all valid too  
JonC : 5/7/2018 10:36 am : link
protection issues, talent issues in players being unable to win individual battles, WR injuries, shite scheme, a play caller in BM who was easy to decipher, and collective confidence issues.
Eli will be fine  
WideRight : 5/7/2018 10:37 am : link
so long as Barkley goes for 1500 @ >4.2/carry, his accuracy won't matter at all.
When in doubt, always refer back to the Two Rules of BBI:  
Tesla : 5/7/2018 10:42 am : link
Rule No. 1: It's never Eli's fault.

Rule No. 2: If there is any evidence that Eli played poorly, please refer back to Rule No. 1.
FFS  
dep026 : 5/7/2018 10:43 am : link
this place sucks sometimes. Same people, every thread.
RE: Eli also flat out missed a lot of throws  
WideRight : 5/7/2018 10:45 am : link
In comment 13956661 JonC said:
Quote:
he normally made with ease, and missed badly, while the protection was ok. Let's be intellectually honest here ...


Honestly, was he ever very accurate? Throwing to Plax & Nicks, big receivers with huge targets may hid some of his problems on deep throws. Smith and Cruz, when they were in their prime, were masters at creating space for Eli on intermediate and short routes. OBJ has been awesome, but his career has been shortened because of Eli's inaccuracy.

Management made the right decision to fix the run game. That enabled a smooth transition for Dallas after Romo. Dak is not a worldbeater and they still win. Hopefully the Giants can do the same.
I have said this repeatedly here  
rich in DC : 5/7/2018 10:53 am : link
There was more than enough blame to go around last season.

The OL was TERRIBLE- complete inability to create lanes for a run game OR pass protect.

The RB committee was well below average- resulting in a running game that NO ONE respected- leading to even more OL problems as the opposition proceeded to bring the house to rush Eli because they didn't need to have ANY run contain.

In turn, the top 3 WR were lost for long periods of time- no team can overcome that level of lost time and talent. The Giant's backup WR were simply not NFL caliber. This, in turn, made Eli's life hell because he had to throw the ball early or had WR running the wrong routes or missing "hot reads."

The TE might have been the sole bright spot of the offense. However, lots of drops all around there too. However, at least they generally stayed healthy and could get some yardage.

Eli was a mess for all of the above reasons- and even he regressed to some bad habits- the "happy feet" we saw earlier in his career came back; the "fire and duck" method of throwing and finally the clear disgust with his offense probably didn't help morale. Hard to blame him- but he IS the leader and really didn't step up in that regard last year.

What passed for an offensive game plan from the coaches was terrible- and those responsible were properly fired.

I am hopeful for a number of reasons this season. A head coach and offensive coach team that has experience running real NFL offenses and with good game plans.

The OL had a significant upgrade at several positions. Maybe a new C would have been nice- but they were a little limited by the cap and lack of picks. However, a legit NFL LT, what look to be two legit NFL OGs, and hopefully one of the RT candidates emerges to at least be league average at the spot is a sign for hope.

Getting a potential superstar RB who can catch AND run the ball on any down gives the OL a boost as well. If teams have to respect the Giant's run game, that cuts down on the mass blitzes on almost every down we saw last year- and teams must maintains run contain lanes and hold position- because the Giants have a RB who can take it to the end zone if he gets to the second level.

An added bonus that doesn't get enough attention is that the Giants no longer have to "tip their hand" on the play by who is in the backfield. Barkley can be a true 3 down back- allowing the team to utilize multiple formations- and even disguise plays- with different personnel.

A little health at WR wouldn't hurt either. The Giants currently have a solid slot WR and a star WR- but probably need one more solid vet on the opposite side at WR. Again- an improved OL and legitimate run game make their jobs easier as well- time to make cuts, time to get open, more "one on one" matchups as teams have to keep defensive containment in the middle third.

The big question is whether Eli will be able to be comfortable, or whether he has reached the "shell shocked" stage where too many hits and close calls have made him trigger happy and slow. I suspect that once he finds that he isn't ducking and running for his life, he will at least be a good QB- I don't think we see Super Bowl MVP Eli again- but I will take "good enough to get to the playoffs and make some noise" Eli.

With all that said, the Giants are likely one more off-season from being a strong offense. They might need a new OC and RT. They probably need a couple long term WR. They need to find out what they have in Webb and Lauletta- and whether Eli has enough left to stay the starter.

I like the future- but I think the present might be better than some suspect. I don't think this team can challenge the Eagles for a division title, but maybe a wild card isn't too outlandish.
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