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Roethlisberger is a di... not a nice person

T-Bone : 5/5/2018 7:57 am
This guy’s attitude has ALWAYS sucked. I remember how the video of him being a dick to Eli during the draft process. I’m glad we didn’t get stuck with this clown. I’d rather be stuck with Rivers over this guy.
I’m retiring... no I’m not... yes I am... no I’m, wait why’d you pick HIM? - ( New Window )
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RE: RE: To further the point further  
dep026 : 5/5/2018 9:34 am : link
In comment 13955238 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13955218 dep026 said:


Quote:


If both play out their contracts at the end of 1019. Eli would have made 27 more million in career than Ben 230 million to 203 million. With 22 million coming in rookie deal... that means in the last 10 years... Eli made a whopping 500,000 more a year than Ben.

Yeah, that’s been killing us for years.



I found this which indicates Ei way above Ben thru last year in earnings. Didn't audit it though...

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-quarterbacks-career-earnings-salary-millions-ranked-active-052317


found my info at overthecap. So someone’s off.
another story about what a dick BR is  
hightop cleats : 5/5/2018 9:39 am : link
i heard this maybe 8-10 years ago but completely believe it.

there is a golf course called laurel valley outside of pittsburgh. very private, exclusive but really elegant and low key. BR evidently shows up one saturday morning at the proshop and says he wants to play. the pro tells him its a private course and does he have a member with him? BR says no but that shouldn't matter because he's BR and everyone knows him in pittsburgh. the pro acknowledges that he knows him well, is a big fan but rules are rules. sorry, just can't do it.

BR storms out of the proshop, waits in his car for a few minutes then gets out, puts his shoes on, puts his bag on a cart, goes up to the first tee, cuts in front of a couple of foursomes, tees off and drives off down he fairway without even saying hello or excuse me to any of the members waiting to play. he finishes the first hole, goes to the second tee and is about to hit when he feels someone tap him on the shoulder. turns around and its arnold palmer who lives close by. laurel valley his home course.

arnie looks at BR and evidently says "son, here's what you're going to do. you're going to get in your cart and drive back to the pro shop, apologize to the pro and sign autographs from anyone who wants one for as long as it takes. and then you're going to get in your car and you are never fucking coming back to this club. ever. are we clear?"

BR, for maybe the first time in his life, does what he's told.
I am a Miami Alum  
AnnapolisMike : 5/5/2018 9:42 am : link
I wanted the Giants to draft him. Man I am glad they didn't. He is a real piece of shit. And is still screwing around on his wife per someone I know in Pittsburgh.

I would have imploded in NY.
RE: another story about what a dick BR is  
the mike : 5/5/2018 9:44 am : link
In comment 13955248 hightop cleats said:
Quote:
i heard this maybe 8-10 years ago but completely believe it.

there is a golf course called laurel valley outside of pittsburgh. very private, exclusive but really elegant and low key. BR evidently shows up one saturday morning at the proshop and says he wants to play. the pro tells him its a private course and does he have a member with him? BR says no but that shouldn't matter because he's BR and everyone knows him in pittsburgh. the pro acknowledges that he knows him well, is a big fan but rules are rules. sorry, just can't do it.

BR storms out of the proshop, waits in his car for a few minutes then gets out, puts his shoes on, puts his bag on a cart, goes up to the first tee, cuts in front of a couple of foursomes, tees off and drives off down he fairway without even saying hello or excuse me to any of the members waiting to play. he finishes the first hole, goes to the second tee and is about to hit when he feels someone tap him on the shoulder. turns around and its arnold palmer who lives close by. laurel valley his home course.

arnie looks at BR and evidently says "son, here's what you're going to do. you're going to get in your cart and drive back to the pro shop, apologize to the pro and sign autographs from anyone who wants one for as long as it takes. and then you're going to get in your car and you are never fucking coming back to this club. ever. are we clear?"

BR, for maybe the first time in his life, does what he's told.


Great story! Thanks for sharing...
RE: I am a Miami Alum  
sundayatone : 5/5/2018 9:44 am : link
In comment 13955249 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
I wanted the Giants to draft him. Man I am glad they didn't. He is a real piece of shit. And is still screwing around on his wife per someone I know in Pittsburgh.

I would have imploded in NY.


i have a source in pitts who says he is a dedicated member in his church.
RE: Every time posts come up bashing another qb who  
Bill L : 5/5/2018 9:46 am : link
In comment 13955231 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
is compared to Eli the more insecure I feel the people posting are about Eli. It's comical the amount of BS coming from those posters to try and boost up Eli. HAHAHAHA

Yea no shit that Big Ben wants no part of a rookie trying to take his job. Just like the GOAT Brady or Favre or any qb with an ego which all have. Giants passed on a qb because Eli was hurt last year and fans revolted so they took a running back.
well, firstly, the comparison here to the extent that it goes beyond Ben and includes Eli, is really with respect to character. So, if either through inclination or Eli-hate you want to take the pro-rape side, go ahead. Im sure that would be a worthy debate.

And on the second part, the BS is coming from you. St extremely unlikely that the Giants passed on a QB because of “fan revolt” and there certainly is zero evidence to support that contention. Again, you can take the reaching for lesser players side, many people have, and debate it on merits other than fan influence on team-building decisions. Because that point, quite frankly, is so ignorant as to be worth nobody’s time.
RE: RE: I am a Miami Alum  
crick n NC : 5/5/2018 9:48 am : link
In comment 13955252 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13955249 AnnapolisMike said:


Quote:


I wanted the Giants to draft him. Man I am glad they didn't. He is a real piece of shit. And is still screwing around on his wife per someone I know in Pittsburgh.

I would have imploded in NY.



i have a source in pitts who says he is a dedicated member in his church.


So was the BTK killer...
Mason Rudolph did kind of shrug off a question about learning from Ben  
est1986 : 5/5/2018 9:49 am : link
& Ben has always been somewhat of a dick.
RE: eli on trial for fraud next week  
PetesHereNow : 5/5/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 13955220 sundayatone said:
Quote:
just sayin


Yes, those two accusations are completely equivalent. Forcing yourself on a woman in a bathroom is equal to saying a jersey is game worn.

A serious question — are your posts on this site serious? Because every time I read your name, I know some inane and foolish stuff is coming about Eli. I mean, it’s like clockwork. A large part of me believes you’re a rival fan trolling the board. I mean hell, this is a thread where the douchiness of Big Ben is discussed and you’re here going, “Eli Manning Jersey Fraud!”
RE: RE: eli on trial for fraud next week  
sundayatone : 5/5/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13955261 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 13955220 sundayatone said:


Quote:


just sayin



Yes, those two accusations are completely equivalent. Forcing yourself on a woman in a bathroom is equal to saying a jersey is game worn.

A serious question — are your posts on this site serious? Because every time I read your name, I know some inane and foolish stuff is coming about Eli. I mean, it’s like clockwork. A large part of me believes you’re a rival fan trolling the board. I mean hell, this is a thread where the douchiness of Big Ben is discussed and you’re here going, “Eli Manning Jersey Fraud!”


lawrence taylor was a real eagle scout,but he is your eagle scout,thats all that matters.
RE: another story about what a dick BR is  
mfsd : 5/5/2018 10:25 am : link
In comment 13955248 hightop cleats said:
Quote:
i heard this maybe 8-10 years ago but completely believe it.

there is a golf course called laurel valley outside of pittsburgh. very private, exclusive but really elegant and low key. BR evidently shows up one saturday morning at the proshop and says he wants to play. the pro tells him its a private course and does he have a member with him? BR says no but that shouldn't matter because he's BR and everyone knows him in pittsburgh. the pro acknowledges that he knows him well, is a big fan but rules are rules. sorry, just can't do it.

BR storms out of the proshop, waits in his car for a few minutes then gets out, puts his shoes on, puts his bag on a cart, goes up to the first tee, cuts in front of a couple of foursomes, tees off and drives off down he fairway without even saying hello or excuse me to any of the members waiting to play. he finishes the first hole, goes to the second tee and is about to hit when he feels someone tap him on the shoulder. turns around and its arnold palmer who lives close by. laurel valley his home course.

arnie looks at BR and evidently says "son, here's what you're going to do. you're going to get in your cart and drive back to the pro shop, apologize to the pro and sign autographs from anyone who wants one for as long as it takes. and then you're going to get in your car and you are never fucking coming back to this club. ever. are we clear?"

BR, for maybe the first time in his life, does what he's told.


That’s fucking awesome!
Ah, here we go again  
BigBlueShock : 5/5/2018 10:26 am : link
Giants aren’t allowed to ever criticize any player on the planet ever again in the history of time because LT played for thecteam 30 years ago.

Has there ever been a stupider argument in the history of sports? So nobody is allowed to talk about current events and give their opinions on true scumbags that are actually relevant today, because well, the Giants once 1000 years go had a scumbag too. Half the Giants fans alive weren’t even born yet or old enough to remember LT, but yeah, everyone should shut up and remain silent on a known rapist that still plays.

Freaking senseless idiots around here
Sundayatone  
Jay on the Island : 5/5/2018 11:35 am : link
Which team are you really a fan of? All you do is shit on Eli and the Giants. What does LT have to do with Eli and Ben? You compared Eli and the apparel to alleged serial rape as if they were equal. So LT is a scumbag and that justifies your stupid argument?
RE: RE: RE: Ben has had a much better team around him  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/5/2018 11:54 am : link
In comment 13955212 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13955177 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13955173 George from PA said:


Quote:


Yet, another reason to be pissed at Reese.


Eli has been paid more than $40MM more than Ben over the course of their career. That's not to excuse the poor job Reese did of building a team around Eli, but when you have the highest paid player in NFL history on your roster (and one who has never taken a pay cut and only once restructured salary to bonus), you're doing it with one hand tied behind your back.

That extra $3MM per year of salary variance could have made the difference between keeping a player and losing him, or signing a top free agent instead of a mid-level guy. Add in a better scouting staff (and more importantly, understanding how to scout for their own schemes), and of course Roethlisberger has had a better roster around him.



Hate to rain on your agenda of contract issues. But since 2009, eli has made a total of 8 million more than Ben. I really doubt that’s the reason why Eli has been hamstrung. And according overthecap. Eli has. Made 199 million o bend 169. With 22 more coming in their rookie contract.

I found all this at overthecap. You not including rookie contract details is very deceiving.

Spotrac has Eli at $219.3MM cash earned to date; Ben is at $170.3MM. So it's actually more like $50MM variance between the two to date, depending on which source you trust.

It's not just the rookie contract, either, although that plays some part. Using your marker of "since 2009"), Eli has topped Ben in cash earnings $172MM to $125.5MM. Now, to be fair, Ben re-signed in 2008 (whereas Eli re-signed in 2009), so even if you want to include that $25MM signing bonus (which makes it a more fair comparison, even though you chose the timeframe), Eli has still topped Ben by more than $21MM after their rookie contracts.

If it was just rookie contracts, I wouldn't bring it up at all. Even using OTC shows that there was only a $22MM variance in their rookie contracts (but neither played out their full rookie contract and, as mentioned above, Ben cashed in on a new contract a year earlier than Eli).

There's no way to deny that Eli has maximized his earnings throughout his career - he's going to finish as the highest paid player in league history, after all. In a salary cap league, that does have an effect on the rest of your roster. How much of an effect is certainly open to debate, but to suggest it has had no effect at all seems somewhat unrealistic.
RE: RE: RE: eli on trial for fraud next week  
chopperhatch : 5/5/2018 12:06 pm : link
In comment 13955264 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13955261 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


In comment 13955220 sundayatone said:


Quote:


just sayin



Yes, those two accusations are completely equivalent. Forcing yourself on a woman in a bathroom is equal to saying a jersey is game worn.

A serious question — are your posts on this site serious? Because every time I read your name, I know some inane and foolish stuff is coming about Eli. I mean, it’s like clockwork. A large part of me believes you’re a rival fan trolling the board. I mean hell, this is a thread where the douchiness of Big Ben is discussed and you’re here going, “Eli Manning Jersey Fraud!”



lawrence taylor was a real eagle scout,but he is your eagle scout,thats all that matters.


Well I guess this confirms it. Troll. Enjoy your pathetic lifestyle dickhead.
RE: RE: RE: eli on trial for fraud next week  
PetesHereNow : 5/5/2018 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13955264 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13955261 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


In comment 13955220 sundayatone said:


Quote:


just sayin



Yes, those two accusations are completely equivalent. Forcing yourself on a woman in a bathroom is equal to saying a jersey is game worn.

A serious question — are your posts on this site serious? Because every time I read your name, I know some inane and foolish stuff is coming about Eli. I mean, it’s like clockwork. A large part of me believes you’re a rival fan trolling the board. I mean hell, this is a thread where the douchiness of Big Ben is discussed and you’re here going, “Eli Manning Jersey Fraud!”



lawrence taylor was a real eagle scout,but he is your eagle scout,thats all that matters.


I’m not seeing where Lawrence Taylor is mentioned in my post. But at least, his crimes and Ben’s accusations are in the same ballpark. Both being despicable acts against women.
RE: To further the point further  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/5/2018 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13955218 dep026 said:
Quote:
If both play out their contracts at the end of 1019. Eli would have made 27 more million in career than Ben 230 million to 203 million. With 22 million coming in rookie deal... that means in the last 10 years... Eli made a whopping 500,000 more a year than Ben.

Yeah, that’s been killing us for years.

I think you might be missing that neither of them completed their rookie contracts - they both renegotiated early, Ben a year earlier than Eli.

But it's odd that Spotrac and OTC have such significantly different numbers for the two of them. Spotrac has them $49MM apart currently, with Ben scheduled to earn $1MM more than Eli over the next two years (entirely in this coming season).
RE: RE: RE: eli on trial for fraud next week  
BigBlue4You09 : 5/5/2018 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13955233 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13955221 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 13955220 sundayatone said:


Quote:


just sayin



No he isnt. The case is going to court, not Eli.

Just sayin.....



eli will be in the court with his lawyers,unless they settle out of court. just sayin



You’re one of the worst posters here. Just sayin
"stuck with Rivers" ?  
bc4life : 5/5/2018 1:48 pm : link
I would have been cool with them keeping him. Rivers is a helluva QB.
RE:  
T-Bone : 5/5/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13955431 bc4life said:
Quote:
I would have been cool with them keeping him. Rivers is a helluva QB.


Although I can see where you might’ve gotten the impression... my using the word ‘stuck’ with him wasn’t meant to be used or interpreted as an insult to Rivers. I also think he’s a very good QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Ben has had a much better team around him  
JOrthman : 5/5/2018 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13955322 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13955212 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 13955177 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13955173 George from PA said:


Quote:


Yet, another reason to be pissed at Reese.


Eli has been paid more than $40MM more than Ben over the course of their career. That's not to excuse the poor job Reese did of building a team around Eli, but when you have the highest paid player in NFL history on your roster (and one who has never taken a pay cut and only once restructured salary to bonus), you're doing it with one hand tied behind your back.

That extra $3MM per year of salary variance could have made the difference between keeping a player and losing him, or signing a top free agent instead of a mid-level guy. Add in a better scouting staff (and more importantly, understanding how to scout for their own schemes), and of course Roethlisberger has had a better roster around him.



Hate to rain on your agenda of contract issues. But since 2009, eli has made a total of 8 million more than Ben. I really doubt that’s the reason why Eli has been hamstrung. And according overthecap. Eli has. Made 199 million o bend 169. With 22 more coming in their rookie contract.

I found all this at overthecap. You not including rookie contract details is very deceiving.


Spotrac has Eli at $219.3MM cash earned to date; Ben is at $170.3MM. So it's actually more like $50MM variance between the two to date, depending on which source you trust.

It's not just the rookie contract, either, although that plays some part. Using your marker of "since 2009"), Eli has topped Ben in cash earnings $172MM to $125.5MM. Now, to be fair, Ben re-signed in 2008 (whereas Eli re-signed in 2009), so even if you want to include that $25MM signing bonus (which makes it a more fair comparison, even though you chose the timeframe), Eli has still topped Ben by more than $21MM after their rookie contracts.

If it was just rookie contracts, I wouldn't bring it up at all. Even using OTC shows that there was only a $22MM variance in their rookie contracts (but neither played out their full rookie contract and, as mentioned above, Ben cashed in on a new contract a year earlier than Eli).

There's no way to deny that Eli has maximized his earnings throughout his career - he's going to finish as the highest paid player in league history, after all. In a salary cap league, that does have an effect on the rest of your roster. How much of an effect is certainly open to debate, but to suggest it has had no effect at all seems somewhat unrealistic.


Does that include endorsements though?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Ben has had a much better team around him  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/5/2018 5:58 pm : link
In comment 13955539 JOrthman said:
Quote:
Does that include endorsements though?

No, it's just money that the Giants and Steelers have paid Eli and Ben, respectively, in salary, bonuses, and incentives.

And the point about Eli being the highest paid player in NFL history at the end of his current contract is also specifically tied to (and compared to) total player contract earnings, no outside income included.
RE: another story about what a dick BR is  
FStubbs : 5/6/2018 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13955248 hightop cleats said:
Quote:
i heard this maybe 8-10 years ago but completely believe it.

there is a golf course called laurel valley outside of pittsburgh. very private, exclusive but really elegant and low key. BR evidently shows up one saturday morning at the proshop and says he wants to play. the pro tells him its a private course and does he have a member with him? BR says no but that shouldn't matter because he's BR and everyone knows him in pittsburgh. the pro acknowledges that he knows him well, is a big fan but rules are rules. sorry, just can't do it.

BR storms out of the proshop, waits in his car for a few minutes then gets out, puts his shoes on, puts his bag on a cart, goes up to the first tee, cuts in front of a couple of foursomes, tees off and drives off down he fairway without even saying hello or excuse me to any of the members waiting to play. he finishes the first hole, goes to the second tee and is about to hit when he feels someone tap him on the shoulder. turns around and its arnold palmer who lives close by. laurel valley his home course.

arnie looks at BR and evidently says "son, here's what you're going to do. you're going to get in your cart and drive back to the pro shop, apologize to the pro and sign autographs from anyone who wants one for as long as it takes. and then you're going to get in your car and you are never fucking coming back to this club. ever. are we clear?"

BR, for maybe the first time in his life, does what he's told.


Wow. On so many levels.
RE: RE: I am a Miami Alum  
djm : 5/6/2018 2:45 pm : link
In comment 13955252 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13955249 AnnapolisMike said:


Quote:


I wanted the Giants to draft him. Man I am glad they didn't. He is a real piece of shit. And is still screwing around on his wife per someone I know in Pittsburgh.

I would have imploded in NY.



i have a source in pitts who says he is a dedicated member in his church.


Are you for real? What a wad.
That version of the story doesn't seem to be exactly true  
arniefez : 5/6/2018 2:54 pm : link
there are a lot of different versions of that story. In each one Ben is a jerk and Arnold Palmer gets involved and sends him to the pro shop to sign autographs and tells him never to come back. That much seems to be accurate.
The EFC...  
bw in dc : 5/6/2018 11:12 pm : link
out in full force piling on Roeth here. Sense a bit of jealousy since Roeth has clearly been the better player.

Enjoying the continued non-sense that Roeth is only better because he’s been surrounded by more talent. I guess we need to downgrade Montana now because Walsh drafted some of the game’s greatest players - Rice, Haley, Lott, etc - to play with the real GOAT.

I see nothing wrong with what Roeth said. I don’t now why it’s even a story. Typical, Florio trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

And for those stacking Eli ahead of Rivers, as if it’s a no-brained, I suggest you visit pro-football-reference.com to familiarize yourself with Rivers stats. The guy has been outstanding.
I say this with complete honesty...  
T-Bone : 5/7/2018 6:33 am : link
I knew you were going to say exactly this when I saw your handle on this thread beedub. Some outcomes are just... inevitable. *grin*

Years after flip-flopping between him suggesting he’s going to retire and then changing his mind and he’s not sure why they’d prepare for life after him and they should’ve used the pick for more help for ‘them’ (funny how it becomes about THEM when it’s convenient for him)? Yeah... ok. Roethlisberger has shown himself to be a grade A asshole since his first before their draft years ago and he’s done absolutely nothing to change that opinion. From rape allegations... to stories like the ones above... to him acting like Brett Favre junior with the constant ‘This is it... Sike!’ going back and forth the guy has shown himself to be a prick.

I could care less about the argument who’s better between him and Eli because it irrelevant to this discussion. This is about him showing how much of an insecure, self entitled jerk he’s been AT LEAST since the ‘04 draft. Again, I can honestly say that after ‘knowing’ you for almost 20 years now I’m not one bit surprised at your stance on this... I actually would’ve been stunned if you’d have agreed.
Ben is a bit of a drama queen  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/7/2018 9:06 am : link
We know this. He's been this for years. When you start publicly talking about retirement you lose the right to whine about them drafting QBs.
Another.. reference to the Eli Fan Club..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/7/2018 9:14 am : link
it has gotten beyond bizarre now.

But this is what takes the cake:

Quote:
lawrence taylor was a real eagle scout,but he is your eagle scout,thats all that matters.


Nice slip up by the fucking douche sundayatone who only posts to slam Eli. By "Your Eagle Scout", I'm assuming he isn't YOUR Eagle Scout, which means you are pulling for another team.

Not surprising, but what a pathetic display to troll a message board with one sole intent.
RE: another story about what a dick BR is  
Bramton1 : 5/7/2018 9:47 am : link
In comment 13955248 hightop cleats said:
Quote:
i heard this maybe 8-10 years ago but completely believe it.

there is a golf course called laurel valley outside of pittsburgh. very private, exclusive but really elegant and low key. BR evidently shows up one saturday morning at the proshop and says he wants to play. the pro tells him its a private course and does he have a member with him? BR says no but that shouldn't matter because he's BR and everyone knows him in pittsburgh. the pro acknowledges that he knows him well, is a big fan but rules are rules. sorry, just can't do it.

BR storms out of the proshop, waits in his car for a few minutes then gets out, puts his shoes on, puts his bag on a cart, goes up to the first tee, cuts in front of a couple of foursomes, tees off and drives off down he fairway without even saying hello or excuse me to any of the members waiting to play. he finishes the first hole, goes to the second tee and is about to hit when he feels someone tap him on the shoulder. turns around and its arnold palmer who lives close by. laurel valley his home course.

arnie looks at BR and evidently says "son, here's what you're going to do. you're going to get in your cart and drive back to the pro shop, apologize to the pro and sign autographs from anyone who wants one for as long as it takes. and then you're going to get in your car and you are never fucking coming back to this club. ever. are we clear?"

BR, for maybe the first time in his life, does what he's told.


Yeah, this story is probably false. There is a different version, where Palmer and BR played together at Latrobe Country Club (where Palmer's ashes were later spread) and another time BR went back there and name dropped Palmer to get on the course. While he was playing, BR was rude to a couple of kids, who turned out to be Palmer's grandkids. The kids called Palmer, who showed up and went off on BR.

BR has said himself that he played with Palmer at Latrobe in 2008. Said it was a blast. But someone close to BR denied that anything negative ever happened between BR and Palmer.
RE: I say this with complete honesty...  
bw in dc : 5/7/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 13956501 T-Bone said:
Quote:

Years after flip-flopping between him suggesting he’s going to retire and then changing his mind and he’s not sure why they’d prepare for life after him and they should’ve used the pick for more help for ‘them’ (funny how it becomes about THEM when it’s convenient for him)? Yeah... ok. Roethlisberger has shown himself to be a grade A asshole since his first before their draft years ago and he’s done absolutely nothing to change that opinion. From rape allegations... to stories like the ones above... to him acting like Brett Favre junior with the constant ‘This is it... Sike!’ going back and forth the guy has shown himself to be a prick.

I could care less about the argument who’s better between him and Eli because it irrelevant to this discussion. This is about him showing how much of an insecure, self entitled jerk he’s been AT LEAST since the ‘04 draft.


We are closer than you think on this. I don't disagree with much of your recap of Roethlisberger's act in Pittsburgh. He can be a real jerk off. And I can't imagine how much better he could have been if he cared to get into better shape. He's a guy who has certainly relied more of his natural gifts, and those gifts are plentiful.

I just think this situation in particular is overblown - that's all.

And as much as Eli bothers me, starting with the draft manipulation Archie, Condon and he pulled in 2004, I would't have any problem if he was chilly towards another QB that was drifted. The coaches have the most responsibility to develop the players, not other players. The QB position is unlike any other. It's a solo act on the field. On the other hand, there are multiple olinemen, dlinmen, WRs, DBs, etc. So as units, they need to be more in sync and work together to pull that off.

I am just amused how the EFC deploys to pounce on this situation - that's all - and then how some pivot to say Eli is the superior QB. That's just not the case, on any level. I posted the numbers last week - in all MAJOR categories, you name it, Roethlisberger is comfortably the more effective, accomplished QB.


Eli's "draft manipulation" was a stroke of genius  
Go Terps : 5/7/2018 11:48 am : link
One that should be utilized by more players, but is not.
RE: Eli's  
bw in dc : 5/7/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13956808 Go Terps said:
Quote:
One that should be utilized by more players, but is not.


Then you want to blow up the draft process, which would require a different talent acquisition model all together, and that goes against the spirit of the what the owners and players have agreed to.

If the players don't like the draft, the bargain out of it. But I find these renegade moves the height if selfishness for players who have proved NOTHING as a pro. Once you get into the pro game and establish your production, then god bless when it's time for free agency.

Until then, f-ck off (not you, the player) and wait your turn...
RE: RE: Eli's  
Mad Mike : 5/7/2018 12:06 pm : link
In comment 13956835 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Then you want to blow up the draft process, which would require a different talent acquisition model all together, and that goes against the spirit of the what the owners and players have agreed to.

If the players don't like the draft, the bargain out of it.

Well, the draftees never agreed to the current model, nor do they have any ability to bargain out of it.
RE: RE: I say this with complete honesty...  
T-Bone : 5/7/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13956802 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13956501 T-Bone said:


Quote:



Years after flip-flopping between him suggesting he’s going to retire and then changing his mind and he’s not sure why they’d prepare for life after him and they should’ve used the pick for more help for ‘them’ (funny how it becomes about THEM when it’s convenient for him)? Yeah... ok. Roethlisberger has shown himself to be a grade A asshole since his first before their draft years ago and he’s done absolutely nothing to change that opinion. From rape allegations... to stories like the ones above... to him acting like Brett Favre junior with the constant ‘This is it... Sike!’ going back and forth the guy has shown himself to be a prick.

I could care less about the argument who’s better between him and Eli because it irrelevant to this discussion. This is about him showing how much of an insecure, self entitled jerk he’s been AT LEAST since the ‘04 draft.



We are closer than you think on this. I don't disagree with much of your recap of Roethlisberger's act in Pittsburgh. He can be a real jerk off. And I can't imagine how much better he could have been if he cared to get into better shape. He's a guy who has certainly relied more of his natural gifts, and those gifts are plentiful.

I just think this situation in particular is overblown - that's all.

And as much as Eli bothers me, starting with the draft manipulation Archie, Condon and he pulled in 2004, I would't have any problem if he was chilly towards another QB that was drifted. The coaches have the most responsibility to develop the players, not other players. The QB position is unlike any other. It's a solo act on the field. On the other hand, there are multiple olinemen, dlinmen, WRs, DBs, etc. So as units, they need to be more in sync and work together to pull that off.

I am just amused how the EFC deploys to pounce on this situation - that's all - and then how some pivot to say Eli is the superior QB. That's just not the case, on any level. I posted the numbers last week - in all MAJOR categories, you name it, Roethlisberger is comfortably the more effective, accomplished QB.



Fair enough. It's a matter of opinion as to how much this has been blown up but keep in mind 1) it's the off-season... EVERYTHING is overblown with regards to the NFL during this time and 2) Ben has a history of jerkish behavior and this is just another layer of it.

I agree with you that if Eli has said this I probably wouldn't care that much either. I'd probably think that's a fucked up way to be to a new teammate... but I'd understand the reasoning I suppose. Like you said, it's the coaches job to get the new guy ready... not the incumbent. IF the incumbent player chooses to help, that's a plus.

Like I said earlier, I won't get into the Ben vs Eli debate because I don't think one is THAT much better than the other. Even if I think that one is better than the other, the difference is so small it's not worth arguing over IMO.
By the way...  
T-Bone : 5/7/2018 12:13 pm : link
I still knew you were going to say exactly what you said. *grin*
RE: RE: RE: Eli's  
bw in dc : 5/7/2018 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13956847 Mad Mike said:
Quote:


Well, the draftees never agreed to the current model, nor do they have any ability to bargain out of it.


Technically, that is right. But this is the what the owners has set up as their process to enter into their league. Take another example, a player can't be eligible for the draft unless the player has been been out of high school for at least three years, and must have used up their college eligibility before the start of the next college football season. Players like Maurice Clarett have challenged that in court, and have lost.

bw  
Go Terps : 5/7/2018 12:26 pm : link
But the right to refuse the team that drafted you is part of what both the owners and players negotiated. It's part of the process, it's just rarely used. A draftee doesn't owe the team that drafts him (or the league) anything until they pay him.

If I were Baker Mayfield there is no fucking way I play for the Browns. Zero.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Eli's  
Mad Mike : 5/7/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13956885 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Technically, that is right.

Is there some non-technical way it's not right?

Obviously this is the system set up by the league and the draftees have to deal with it. I don't think anyone's suggested otherwise. I was simply responding to your comment that the players should challenge it if they don't like it, which is completely non-applicable to the players in question.
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 5/7/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13956891 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But the right to refuse the team that drafted you is part of what both the owners and players negotiated. It's part of the process, it's just rarely used. A draftee doesn't owe the team that drafts him (or the league) anything until they pay him.


Agreed. Then stay out for a year and go back into the draft the following year when the team loses your right.

Like I said, it's a "prove it" thing for me. Get in the league, demonstrate that you can produce, then, God bless you, go kill it in your free agency period.

I didn't like Mayfield as a draft prospect. But I give him credit for being the anti-Eli in the draft process. He embraced the opportunity to be drafted by whomever and looked forward to the challenge.
But it isn't a "prove it" thing in reality  
Go Terps : 5/7/2018 12:46 pm : link
It's a business transaction, with each side having their own form of leverage. Eli and Elway used their leverage, were both proven right in their judgment, and rewarded with long successful careers on one team.

Disliking Eli for being educated in the system and playing the game well under the rules... It's not real rational.
RE: But it isn't a  
dep026 : 5/7/2018 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13956921 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Disliking Eli for being educated in the system and playing the game well under the rules... It's not real rational.


He doesnt like Eli, period. Anything he can use randomly slight him will be used. hahaha
Eli  
dorgan : 5/7/2018 12:52 pm : link
probably hates him too, so it's all fair.

Eli might have felt differently  
PEEJ : 5/7/2018 1:16 pm : link
if his dad hadn't suffered with a doormat team for his whole career
RE: But it isn't a  
bw in dc : 5/7/2018 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13956921 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's a business transaction, with each side having their own form of leverage. Eli and Elway used their leverage, were both proven right in their judgment, and rewarded with long successful careers on one team.

Disliking Eli for being educated in the system and playing the game well under the rules... It's not real rational.


More disturbed by the process, really. I found the Elway move equally repugnant.

The great irony is Eli's brother Peyton was more than willing to play for San Diego five years earlier if the Colts didn't select him first. Same owner as a matter of fact in Spanos in both cases.

It wasn't like the Chargers were killing it in the years prior to Peyton's draft either. So what changed? I always wondered if the Mannings were that sensitive to the GM in place. Beathard back in the '90s versus the switch to AJ Smith. Or maybe Eli didn't want to compete with Drew Brees? It is a fascinating story to me.

But indeed it was a "business transaction". You prefer unproven commodities who are willing to throw a wrench in the system because - well - just because.

I prefer the prospect who is willing to accept the privilege of being drafted by whomever - no chaos - and attempt to make that franchise better.

Being drafted isn't a privilege  
Go Terps : 5/7/2018 3:18 pm : link
That's a horseshit stance that's perpetrated by the league.

Actually, it's a pretty terrible system in which the young player has very little say in where his career starts. How many careers never got off the ground simply because the player was drafted into a terrible situation with poor ownership, management, and/or coaching? I'm in favor of any player doing whatever he can to buck that system.
RE: Being drafted isn't a privilege  
bw in dc : 5/7/2018 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13957139 Go Terps said:
Quote:
That's a horseshit stance that's perpetrated by the league.

Actually, it's a pretty terrible system in which the young player has very little say in where his career starts. How many careers never got off the ground simply because the player was drafted into a terrible situation with poor ownership, management, and/or coaching? I'm in favor of any player doing whatever he can to buck that system.


You're Captain Chaos. ;)

Staying strictly on the NFL, I have a bigger problem with the hard cap system, and the state of contracts, than the entry system into the league - the draft. Players should fight for a bigger piece of the pie, guaranteed contracts, and roster expansion.

If a player can play, it typically doesn't matter where they are drafted. And if they play it out, and get to their free agency window, they are rewarded in free agency. So it smooths itself out somewhat in terms of a good player getting stuck with a bad organization.

Eh, if being drafted is a privilege, it's a crappy one  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/7/2018 7:04 pm : link
The best college players spend years working, bleeding, and in some cases rehabbing for free while other people get wildly rich off your sacrifice. The reward for that is four more years of having an artificial roadblock on how much you're worth, and possibly going to a team that doesn't have a clue and is going to waste your best years achieving nothing.
Yet all I hear about is how there 8 new playoff teams each year  
Jimmy Googs : 5/7/2018 7:39 pm : link
and how turnarounds are common place.

Relax on the college players are stuck...outside of Cleveland, you all are being too dramatic.
RE: Eh, if being drafted is a privilege, it's a crappy one  
bw in dc : 5/7/2018 7:39 pm : link
In comment 13957331 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
The best college players spend years working, bleeding, and in some cases rehabbing for free while other people get wildly rich off your sacrifice. The reward for that is four more years of having an artificial roadblock on how much you're worth, and possibly going to a team that doesn't have a clue and is going to waste your best years achieving nothing.


The college system is a scandal with lack of player payment. But that’s an NCAA issue, not an NFL issue.

And the NFL isn’t paying minimum wage, btw. But that is beside the point.

The players have no one to blame but themselves for agreeing to such an owner friendly system. Gene Upshaw sold the players out and now Smith continues the tradition....

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