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NFT: Westworld Season 2, Epi3 (spoilers welcome)

Tony in Tampa : 5/7/2018 9:07 am
What we learned:

ē The hosts are still driven by their former programming: Deloris is primarily Wyatt but the farm girl who loves her father and has affection for Teddy is still in there; Hector easily reverts to his programming, Teddy is still the good guy compassionate gunslinger

ē Lots of reunions: Deloris meets up with both her father and Bernard, Maeve, Hector and Lee are back together with Armistice, and the two idiots from Livestock management, even Bernard is once again back with Charlotte in what is the present timeline

ē Overall my least favorite episode so far for season 2. Did not advance the plot that much, just a build up to a big battle that didnít payoff. May sound strange but I like this show better when it is more AI-sci-fi and less western. Too much western last night.

I also think they are having trouble with the Deloris/Wyatt split personalities. I don't think it's working too well or should I say that Evan Rachel Wood's depiction is not working for me.
Probably an unpopular opinion  
Giants in 07 : 5/7/2018 10:01 am : link
I don't think Dolores' actress has been good this season
Why do the robot weapons suddenly work?  
since1925 : 5/7/2018 10:21 am : link
They didn't work on humans before the revolt. Why do they kill humans now? They didn't kill the guy in the room with the woman in "India Land." And that wasn't a timeline trick as she obviously crawled after the revolt.
The show kinda sucks  
Lafferty, Daniel : 5/7/2018 10:31 am : link
it is contradicting itself scene over scene. The hosts weapons only work on humans when fired by hosts? Human on human still only "stings"? Makes no sense.
The Delores character is the worst. Shes transient but also stuck to her emotions from her narratives (as is Maeve with her daughter) - but Delores talks about saving her kind and liberating them from the park, she hangs the guests for abusing hosts while also wiping out hordes of her own kind.
She's Wyatt? She's Delores? She's both? Need some sort of explanation on what exactly Ford's new narrative is. Are they just corrupted - because the decisions certainly are not coherent.

Another huge issues - what is the deal with Bernard? This guy was made to be Arnold, he is an Arnold replica. But no one knows this? The board of Delos does't know that Bernard "the boss" looks, acts, and IS exactly like Arnold - Ford's old partner? I mean wtf?? Its a huge, gaping hole in the story.

Furthermore, Delos plan of attack is to walk forward into battle at the old Fort? What is this the Revolutionary War? They dont have a helicopter with a mini gun? Maybe a couple RPGs? That "battle" made no fucking sense.

This show sucks.

At least Barry comes on afterwards and is some of the best TV that's been made in recent memory. Last night's Barry ep was incredible powerful/intense.
kinda not feeling WestWorld anymore  
V.I.G. : 5/7/2018 10:52 am : link
either
daniel nailed it  
jtdukedfw : 5/7/2018 11:20 am : link
why the heck would they just keep walking forward w/o any more superior weapons....i agree that the show sucks now....i thought it was really good last year....also the week before they were able to pull up on a screen where all the hosts was why couldnt they use that to tell that there where a bunch still inside the fort.....too many holes too many annoying scenes....another thing did i miss it or why do the indians not have any weapons whatsoever....they outnumbered the 3 but let them go..problem is they got me to the point where i do not care about any of the characters.....my relief is Silicon Valley follows it....love that show
RE: Why do the robot weapons suddenly work?  
Tony in Tampa : 5/7/2018 11:48 am : link
In comment 13956660 since1925 said:
Quote:
They didn't work on humans before the revolt. Why do they kill humans now? They didn't kill the guy in the room with the woman in "India Land." And that wasn't a timeline trick as she obviously crawled after the revolt.

I think in Ep1 of this season Bernard explains this in the barn with Charlotte. He thinks that one of Fords dying acts, in addition to pushing out the new code that sets off all the hosts to rebel is to modify the weapons-I think he says so they read humans as hosts therefore to fire real bullets and kill
A lot of the complaints mentioned in this thread  
Giantology : 5/7/2018 11:51 am : link
have actually been addressed within the show- but it requires paying attention to all the little details.

Disagree that the show sucks, in fact, I like the show even more this season since the initial story and introductions from S1 are out of the way.
RE: The show kinda sucks  
Tony in Tampa : 5/7/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13956677 Lafferty, Daniel said:
Quote:
it is contradicting itself scene over scene. The hosts weapons only work on humans when fired by hosts? Human on human still only "stings"? Makes no sense.
The Delores character is the worst. Shes transient but also stuck to her emotions from her narratives (as is Maeve with her daughter) - but Delores talks about saving her kind and liberating them from the park, she hangs the guests for abusing hosts while also wiping out hordes of her own kind.
She's Wyatt? She's Delores? She's both? Need some sort of explanation on what exactly Ford's new narrative is. Are they just corrupted - because the decisions certainly are not coherent.

Another huge issues - what is the deal with Bernard? This guy was made to be Arnold, he is an Arnold replica. But no one knows this? The board of Delos does't know that Bernard "the boss" looks, acts, and IS exactly like Arnold - Ford's old partner? I mean wtf?? Its a huge, gaping hole in the story.

Furthermore, Delos plan of attack is to walk forward into battle at the old Fort? What is this the Revolutionary War? They dont have a helicopter with a mini gun? Maybe a couple RPGs? That "battle" made no fucking sense.

This show sucks.

At least Barry comes on afterwards and is some of the best TV that's been made in recent memory. Last night's Barry ep was incredible powerful/intense.


I think the Delos board acquired Westworld after Arnold was killed and he had Deloris/Wyatt kill off the first gen host. I think they knew of Arnold as Ford's partner, we can presume some of them may have met him once, but the current board may not have known him well enough to see that Bernard (who really is more of a manager in the lab and not an exec) was a replica for Arnold

Your first and third points are well taken. I have a problem with Deloris's depiction so far this season and I hated the battle scene last night for a number of reasons. The Delos tactical forces appear to be the dumbest army that money can buy.
RE: A lot of the complaints mentioned in this thread  
Giants in 07 : 5/7/2018 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13956813 Giantology said:
Quote:
have actually been addressed within the show- but it requires paying attention to all the little details.

Disagree that the show sucks, in fact, I like the show even more this season since the initial story and introductions from S1 are out of the way.


Agree. A lot of these complaints have been at least decently explained in past episodes.

RE: RE: The show kinda sucks  
RobCarpenter : 5/7/2018 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13956827 Tony in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13956677 Lafferty, Daniel said:
Quote:
it is contradicting itself scene over scene. The hosts weapons only work on humans when fired by hosts? Human on human still only "stings"? Makes no sense.
The Delores character is the worst. Shes transient but also stuck to her emotions from her narratives (as is Maeve with her daughter) - but Delores talks about saving her kind and liberating them from the park, she hangs the guests for abusing hosts while also wiping out hordes of her own kind.
She's Wyatt? She's Delores? She's both? Need some sort of explanation on what exactly Ford's new narrative is. Are they just corrupted - because the decisions certainly are not coherent.

Another huge issues - what is the deal with Bernard? This guy was made to be Arnold, he is an Arnold replica. But no one knows this? The board of Delos does't know that Bernard "the boss" looks, acts, and IS exactly like Arnold - Ford's old partner? I mean wtf?? Its a huge, gaping hole in the story.

Furthermore, Delos plan of attack is to walk forward into battle at the old Fort? What is this the Revolutionary War? They dont have a helicopter with a mini gun? Maybe a couple RPGs? That "battle" made no fucking sense.

This show sucks.

At least Barry comes on afterwards and is some of the best TV that's been made in recent memory. Last night's Barry ep was incredible powerful/intense.

I think the Delos board acquired Westworld after Arnold was killed and he had Deloris/Wyatt kill off the first gen host. I think they knew of Arnold as Ford's partner, we can presume some of them may have met him once, but the current board may not have known him well enough to see that Bernard (who really is more of a manager in the lab and not an exec) was a replica for Arnold

Your first and third points are well taken. I have a problem with Deloris's depiction so far this season and I hated the battle scene last night for a number of reasons. The Delos tactical forces appear to be the dumbest army that money can buy.


The weapon issue -- where the hosts could now hurt the humans -- was clearly something that Ford did before he died.

I disagree with your assertion about Delores. She's become self aware, she's not defined by any of her previous iterations at all. She's affectionate to Abernathy b/c she had shared experiences with him, and like her he's someone who has been manipulated. She's trying to help Teddy but she's clearly disappointed that he's stuck in the host narrative.

On the tactical forces sucking -- they are used to dealing with hosts that you could power off with voice commands. They probably think that their weapons give them enough of an advantage where they don't really need to have an attack strategy beyond using superior firepower.

On no one realizing that Bernard is Arnold -- Ford scrubbed info about Arnold, and the park opened after he died. Remember he implored Ford not to open the park, and had Delores kill him. Then the park opens.

They addressed it in the first season (from a reddit thread I found):
Ford, Episode 3:

When the legend becomes fact, you print the legend. My business partners were more than happy to scrub him from the records, and I suppose I didn't discourage them. His name was Arnold.

Logan Episode 5:

Logan: We're considering buying them out. Supposedly, this place was all started by a partnership. And then right before the park opened, one of the partners killed himself. Sent the park into a freefall. I mean, I don't know any of the details. I don't even know his name.

William: You must have a team of lawyers looking at this place.

Logan: Yeah, well, they came up empty. He's a complete mystery. Not even a picture.
Rob  
Tony in Tampa : 5/7/2018 1:28 pm : link
On Deloris, I give the Nolan's and Evan Rachel Ward credit that playing a character with essential two diverse personalities is hard to pull off. From Teddy's own description in S1 Wyatt is a psychopath. Deloris is still a kind of a sweet farm girl. Having ERW play the 2 is a challenge which for me mostly doesn't work.

Also I question how self aware Deloris and the others are. Since the only thing that the host really know about being human is the suffering that humans have caused them-the host themselves are still not experiencing true sentience. They are all relying on their cornerstones and programming. The only empathy and compassion they have or lack is what was written into their characters. The difference is they are just no longer existing under the commands of Delos and the guests. Their primary motivation is revenge.
There's a lot of complex storytelling going on  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 5/7/2018 2:21 pm : link
And you do have to really pay attention to have any chance of figuring out what's going on.

That being said, the Delos response to the host uprising has been so completely ridiculous, it's ruining the rest of the show for me. There's a sentient, murderbot rebellion. There are rich and powerful people being held hostage. So the solution is to send in a bunch of lightly-armed mercenaries in dune buggies.

Nobody has any heavy weapons. There's not even a vehicle-mounted 50 cal or a box of hand grenades. As far as I can tell, they don't have any weapons that can reliably take down a host if their "mortality bit" is set to off.
I question the broader judgment...  
Chris in Philly : 5/7/2018 2:23 pm : link
of anyone saying this show sucks. You have to pay attention...
RE: I question the broader judgment...  
Tony in Tampa : 5/7/2018 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13957064 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
of anyone saying this show sucks. You have to pay attention...

I'm not with the crowd that thinks the show sucks. There is is still a lot there. But last night was a miss IMHO
loving the show  
RasputinPrime : 5/7/2018 2:43 pm : link
there is too much good to linger on the bad.
RE: Rob  
RobCarpenter : 5/7/2018 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13956982 Tony in Tampa said:
Quote:
On Deloris, I give the Nolan's and Evan Rachel Ward credit that playing a character with essential two diverse personalities is hard to pull off. From Teddy's own description in S1 Wyatt is a psychopath. Deloris is still a kind of a sweet farm girl. Having ERW play the 2 is a challenge which for me mostly doesn't work.

Also I question how self aware Deloris and the others are. Since the only thing that the host really know about being human is the suffering that humans have caused them-the host themselves are still not experiencing true sentience. They are all relying on their cornerstones and programming. The only empathy and compassion they have or lack is what was written into their characters. The difference is they are just no longer existing under the commands of Delos and the guests. Their primary motivation is revenge.


She is self aware -- the others aren't. She is the only one with all of her memories intact.
.  
skifaster : 5/7/2018 2:51 pm : link
EMP burst would pretty quickly separate the humans from the robots.
Anybody else think the cold opening was fantastic?  
Giants in 07 : 5/7/2018 2:54 pm : link
It proves that the hosts are becoming sentient or, at the very least, hostile in other sectors of the park as well.

Also, Ghost Nation is pretty clearly trying to save the human beings. They try to save Sizemore from Hector and Maeve and though we do not know what happened yet, Stubbs is clearly captured by them at the end of season 1 but is on the beach and with Bernard when they discover the sea of hosts.
RE: RE: Rob  
Tony in Tampa : 5/7/2018 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13957099 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13956982 Tony in Tampa said:


Quote:


On Deloris, I give the Nolan's and Evan Rachel Ward credit that playing a character with essential two diverse personalities is hard to pull off. From Teddy's own description in S1 Wyatt is a psychopath. Deloris is still a kind of a sweet farm girl. Having ERW play the 2 is a challenge which for me mostly doesn't work.

Also I question how self aware Deloris and the others are. Since the only thing that the host really know about being human is the suffering that humans have caused them-the host themselves are still not experiencing true sentience. They are all relying on their cornerstones and programming. The only empathy and compassion they have or lack is what was written into their characters. The difference is they are just no longer existing under the commands of Delos and the guests. Their primary motivation is revenge.



She is self aware -- the others aren't. She is the only one with all of her memories intact.

I will agree with you that she is self-aware.

I guess my point is that even with all her memories, she seems to be driven by: Loop1-Wyattís psychopathy; Loop2-Her own wish to go home and be back at the farm and third, her motivation to conquer the humans world as mainly retribution for what they have done to her and the hosts. Three things that are off in three different directions. She doesnít seem to want to: spend a life with Teddy or experience joy or ask what else is there to do. She is only driven by 2 prior loops and awareness in the form of anger/revenge. It is very 2 dimensional.

This leaves the show (for me) without a heroine or any main character to get behind. I think Maeve is only slightly better since she too is trapped in her own primary loop but she just has a bad attitude and can wise ass her way through scenes. I fear this plot lost a lot (a cornerstone) without Anthony Hopkins. Hope Iím wrong.
I agree w Tony re: issues with Delores  
Lafferty, Daniel : 5/7/2018 4:33 pm : link
I appreciate the explanation on the Arnold/Bernard stuff.
Still, the lack of high powered weapons/response to the rebellious hosts has been comically bad.

Re: the initial point we were discussing about the weapons-- in the beginning of the episode the female human tiger hunter shoots the male human tiger hunter and since it only stings him - they fuck - since they're both human. I suppose the explanation is that the guns in the park could never be used for human on human violence -- even after Ford makes his adjustment to the system -- which I think was explained by Bernard that the hosts see the humans as fellow hosts now and therefore they can kill them?

Basically, the hosts can shoot humans with the guns, the humans can shoot the hosts with the guns, but the humans cannot shoot each other... is that it?
RE: I agree w Tony re: issues with Delores  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 5/7/2018 4:51 pm : link
In comment 13957217 Lafferty, Daniel said:
Quote:

Basically, the hosts can shoot humans with the guns, the humans can shoot the hosts with the guns, but the humans cannot shoot each other... is that it?


No, I don't think so. I think the scene where the chick shoots the guy and then they bang happens before the robot rebellion and Ford's change to the gun software that lets humans be hurt and/or killed by park weapons.

Then, some time later, they're on the tiger hunt and this is after the "kill humans software patch", so her friend is shot/killed by the host.
Don't understand why people are having trouble  
Giants in 07 : 5/7/2018 5:04 pm : link
understanding the weapons and significance of the opening scene.

The scene in the Raj World tent is there to show that the two meet prior to Ford's new narrative. The scene in the Raj World jungle is there to show that the two are now after Ford's death and the start of the new narrative.

In this kind of show, you simply aren't going to understand anything if you can't get the timelines down. I think they've dialed it down this year personally. I was way more lost last season than I am now.
RE: Don't understand why people are having trouble  
Tony in Tampa : 5/8/2018 8:10 am : link
In comment 13957250 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
understanding the weapons and significance of the opening scene.

The scene in the Raj World tent is there to show that the two meet prior to Ford's new narrative. The scene in the Raj World jungle is there to show that the two are now after Ford's death and the start of the new narrative.

In this kind of show, you simply aren't going to understand anything if you can't get the timelines down. I think they've dialed it down this year personally. I was way more lost last season than I am now.


I love the multiple timelines of WW and the timelines within timelines as much as anyone. And I may buy your explanation that the difference in the first scene of one gunshot just wounding and the other killing had to do with timelines before and after Ford changed the code. But I would hardly call that obvious. There is no indication that I saw-and Iíd like to think Iím paying close attention-that the scenes in the bedroom at the Raj and the next scene in the jungle were in two different timelines.

If we are going to play the timeline game the answer canít just be well the gun didnít kill and then it killed so we are looking at two different timelines. How do we know that we are not in the same timeline and humans canít use WW guns to kill each other but host can use WW guns to kill either humans or hosts?

Again, if I'm wrong I'm fine with it. But calling any two scenes as different timelines based on random actions does not work for me.
RE: RE: Don't understand why people are having trouble  
Pete in 'Vliet : 5/8/2018 8:21 am : link
In comment 13957608 Tony in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13957250 Giants in 07 said:


Quote:


understanding the weapons and significance of the opening scene.

The scene in the Raj World tent is there to show that the two meet prior to Ford's new narrative. The scene in the Raj World jungle is there to show that the two are now after Ford's death and the start of the new narrative.

In this kind of show, you simply aren't going to understand anything if you can't get the timelines down. I think they've dialed it down this year personally. I was way more lost last season than I am now.



I love the multiple timelines of WW and the timelines within timelines as much as anyone. And I may buy your explanation that the difference in the first scene of one gunshot just wounding and the other killing had to do with timelines before and after Ford changed the code. But I would hardly call that obvious. There is no indication that I saw-and Iíd like to think Iím paying close attention-that the scenes in the bedroom at the Raj and the next scene in the jungle were in two different timelines.

If we are going to play the timeline game the answer canít just be well the gun didnít kill and then it killed so we are looking at two different timelines. How do we know that we are not in the same timeline and humans canít use WW guns to kill each other but host can use WW guns to kill either humans or hosts?

Again, if I'm wrong I'm fine with it. But calling any two scenes as different timelines based on random actions does not work for me.


It doesn't have to be 2 different timelines. But there was probably a small passage of time between the meet at the hotel and the tiger hunt. Ford's presentation and death could have occurred the same night the two were sleeping together or it could have occurred a few days after their meet.

If you remember, the guy mentions that the Bengal tiger hunt was at the edge of the park. They probably took a few days to get there on elephant back. He was being very affectionate to her - more than if they had only been together one night, yet she still didn't trust him with whatever was in her journal - so this was probably still in the same visit at the park and thier relations were still just a "vacation fling".
RE: There's a lot of complex storytelling going on  
Pete in 'Vliet : 5/8/2018 8:30 am : link
In comment 13957058 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
And you do have to really pay attention to have any chance of figuring out what's going on.

That being said, the Delos response to the host uprising has been so completely ridiculous, it's ruining the rest of the show for me. There's a sentient, murderbot rebellion. There are rich and powerful people being held hostage. So the solution is to send in a bunch of lightly-armed mercenaries in dune buggies.

Nobody has any heavy weapons. There's not even a vehicle-mounted 50 cal or a box of hand grenades. As far as I can tell, they don't have any weapons that can reliably take down a host if their "mortality bit" is set to off.



The group that attacked the fort was the Westworld security, not the team sent by Delos. This is still before they the "help" shows up. The security team was in dissaray but managed to put together a small force. They did NOT have use of satalites or any tools that could tell them the locations of the hosts. That comes later when the help team arrives.

This attack seems to have been put together only to distract the Confederato's enough to sneak in through the back and grab Abernathy. That's all they were after at the time. If they got Abernathy, they could send him to the mainland and get Delos to send the help team. And I don't think they expected Delores's gang to be there.

Somehow, the help team ends up coming anyway after 2-weeks, yet they are still looking for Abernathy.
I'm surprised that  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/8/2018 9:01 am : link
no one has thought about the following question?

Was Teddy disobeying Delores because he was essentially programmed that way...

OR...

Was Teddy displaying free will?
Big blue down the shore  
beatrixkiddo : 5/8/2018 9:21 am : link
that is a great question, I think Delores/Wyatt probably thinks its the programing. But, I'm not sure.
RE: I'm surprised that  
Tony in Tampa : 5/8/2018 9:37 am : link
In comment 13957657 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
no one has thought about the following question?

Was Teddy disobeying Delores because he was essentially programmed that way...

OR...

Was Teddy displaying free will?


Good point. Teddy is the "good guy" gunslinger and is programmed to play fair. But he is also programmed to be in love with Deloris and has massacred dozens of hosts (30 yrs ago) because she asked him to and before Ford's code was released. Her asking him to kill the confederates and him letting them go seems like free will.
RE: RE: I'm surprised that  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/8/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 13957709 Tony in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13957657 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


no one has thought about the following question?

Was Teddy disobeying Delores because he was essentially programmed that way...

OR...

Was Teddy displaying free will?



Good point. Teddy is the "good guy" gunslinger and is programmed to play fair. But he is also programmed to be in love with Deloris and has massacred dozens of hosts (30 yrs ago) because she asked him to and before Ford's code was released. Her asking him to kill the confederates and him letting them go seems like free will.


I tend to lean towards free will as well.
RE: RE: RE: I'm surprised that  
RobCarpenter : 5/8/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 13957738 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13957709 Tony in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 13957657 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


no one has thought about the following question?

Was Teddy disobeying Delores because he was essentially programmed that way...

OR...

Was Teddy displaying free will?

Good point. Teddy is the "good guy" gunslinger and is programmed to play fair. But he is also programmed to be in love with Deloris and has massacred dozens of hosts (30 yrs ago) because she asked him to and before Ford's code was released. Her asking him to kill the confederates and him letting them go seems like free will.

I tend to lean towards free will as well.


I disagree, I think he's playing his role and doesn't see the big picture at all. He's being the good guy by letting them go b/c in his mind they didn't do anything wrong.
He's also programmed to distrust Wyatt  
Pete in 'Vliet : 5/8/2018 10:32 am : link
so who really knows whats going on with Teddy.

Same with Hector and some of the other hosts. They seem to be diverting away from thier programming, while still being influenced by it. Hector is now rejecting his "lost love" backstory, but has only replaced his unbending lover for her with unbending love for Maeve. Did Ford program this in him or is he struggling to break from code?

And what about Maeve herself? She knows her "daughter" is just a codded host like herself, but can't shake her attachment. She also couldn't shake her fear of the Ghost Nation.

And where the hell did Armistice get the new arm?

Some great discussion this thread...  
Jan in DC : 5/8/2018 10:37 am : link
I'm just here to say Dolores though. Dolores.

Also, I think that if the difference between the two sequences they showed at the beginning of the episode happened before and after Ford's death, they have to find a way to show it. Or maybe it's something that will be addressed later. But either way, it's not very clear storytelling.

Also, Dolores.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm surprised that  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/8/2018 10:39 am : link
In comment 13957778 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13957738 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13957709 Tony in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 13957657 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


no one has thought about the following question?

Was Teddy disobeying Delores because he was essentially programmed that way...

OR...

Was Teddy displaying free will?

Good point. Teddy is the "good guy" gunslinger and is programmed to play fair. But he is also programmed to be in love with Deloris and has massacred dozens of hosts (30 yrs ago) because she asked him to and before Ford's code was released. Her asking him to kill the confederates and him letting them go seems like free will.

I tend to lean towards free will as well.



I disagree, I think he's playing his role and doesn't see the big picture at all. He's being the good guy by letting them go b/c in his mind they didn't do anything wrong.


I guess we will find out. The one thing that I think Delores is forgetting, is that she had to get through the maze before she was self aware.

Teddy has not done that yet, nor have a bunch of others.

Maeve seems selfaware, but is she really, as she is going on this path to save her daughter, but somehow it seems to be programmed into her.

Hector on the other hand, has completely discontinued to follow the narrative that he is in love with another woman. So he seems to be sentient, but is he really?
The battle scenes and security  
oghwga : 5/8/2018 10:41 am : link
feel like they were lifted from the original Battle for the Planet of the Apes. Just trying to look cool.
RE: Some great discussion this thread...  
Pete in 'Vliet : 5/8/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13957800 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
I'm just here to say Dolores though. Dolores.

Also, I think that if the difference between the two sequences they showed at the beginning of the episode happened before and after Ford's death, they have to find a way to show it. Or maybe it's something that will be addressed later. But either way, it's not very clear storytelling.

Also, Dolores.


As I wrote before, I thought it was clear that some time had passed between the two sequences, but still within the same park visit/timeline. There were a few subltle hints to this.

They could have made it more clear that the "revolution" started in between these events, but I think as we begin following the woman, that will be more evident. It is happening at the same time of Delores's Revolution, since that was the same tiger that was found in episode 1.
RE: RE: Some great discussion this thread...  
Jan in DC : 5/8/2018 11:08 am : link
In comment 13957823 Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
In comment 13957800 Jan in DC said:


Quote:


I'm just here to say Dolores though. Dolores.

Also, I think that if the difference between the two sequences they showed at the beginning of the episode happened before and after Ford's death, they have to find a way to show it. Or maybe it's something that will be addressed later. But either way, it's not very clear storytelling.

Also, Dolores.



As I wrote before, I thought it was clear that some time had passed between the two sequences, but still within the same park visit/timeline. There were a few subltle hints to this.

They could have made it more clear that the "revolution" started in between these events, but I think as we begin following the woman, that will be more evident. It is happening at the same time of Delores's Revolution, since that was the same tiger that was found in episode 1.


Yea, I'm interested in seeing how this comes into play and how it effects Dolores. I'd have hoped they could have done a better job differentiating between Dolores and Wyatt's personalities, but maybe that's being overblown by me at this point and we'll find out more about what's driving Dolores in later episodes. Dolores. Dolores.
I agree  
Pete in 'Vliet : 5/8/2018 11:14 am : link
I might have preferred a season a Delores struggling with between her rancher's daughter and Wyatt programming and her new found conciousness.

Instead, this season Delores is almost too sure of herself. It just seems off.
Oh, sorry  
Pete in 'Vliet : 5/8/2018 11:17 am : link
*Dolores
RE: Oh, sorry  
Jan in DC : 5/8/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13957868 Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
*Dolores


:D

Yea, her character needs to carry the show now that Anthony Hopkins is gone. Having Bernard just be dazed and confused for the majority of this season has not been great.
RE: I agree  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/8/2018 11:27 am : link
In comment 13957862 Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
I might have preferred a season a Delores struggling with between her rancher's daughter and Wyatt programming and her new found conciousness.

Instead, this season Delores is almost too sure of herself. It just seems off.


I see Delores as a super self-aware and confident now that she has taken control of herself.

Or it could just be her Wyatt side coming out. I'm sure it will become clearer as we go along.
One thing that kind of confused me ablut the India scenes  
Pete in 'Vliet : 5/8/2018 11:37 am : link
Why was the woman so concerned that he might be a host? If they were only after a vacation fling or one night stand, why would she care?

Maybe she knows something about Delos's data collection?

I'm very curious to know more about what her deal is and whats in that notebook.
RE: One thing that kind of confused me ablut the India scenes  
Tony in Tampa : 5/8/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13957907 Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
Why was the woman so concerned that he might be a host? If they were only after a vacation fling or one night stand, why would she care?

Maybe she knows something about Delos's data collection?

I'm very curious to know more about what her deal is and whats in that notebook.


I would bet it has something to do with the data collection. But we know so little about the guest: Wouldn't it be interesting if there was some sort of pseudo-morality that existed around a few of the guest where it may be seen as beneath their class to sleep with host?

Unlikely but it would be a more interesting/proactive plot choice. Are the guests destined to only be these: cruel elite that use the hosts as things/toys or will we eventually find out that there is an influence of morality, religion on the guests and how they interact with the hosts.
RE: One thing that kind of confused me ablut the India scenes  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/8/2018 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13957907 Pete in 'Vliet said:
Quote:
Why was the woman so concerned that he might be a host? If they were only after a vacation fling or one night stand, why would she care?

Maybe she knows something about Delos's data collection?

I'm very curious to know more about what her deal is and whats in that notebook.


As some have hinted, she possibly could know that they are actively collecting DNA from the patrons (Meaning she knows Delos/William were collecting DNA), and thus actively only sleeping with humans. She more then likely some sort of insider.
Dolores may be self-aware in the sense that she knows she's an android  
Greg from LI : 5/9/2018 1:02 am : link
But I think it's all part of Ford's last narrative, which she is still unknowingly following. Maeve, on the other hand, I think is making her own decisions now. Remember when she sees her coding in the last season? Her directive was plainly stated there - "Mainland Infiltration"



You have to look closely but it's there. Anyway, another clue to me is their clothing. Maeve now wears modern clothing, while Delores keeps wearing her 19th century duds. Maeve also speaks in a much more natural, conversational manner compared to Delores. Delores sounds like she's still reciting a script, full of grand dramatic speeches.
Bah, pic wasn't that big before I posted ir  
Greg from LI : 5/9/2018 1:03 am : link
.
Here's the link to the picture - ( New Window )
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