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Are 2 TE sets going to be the norm this season?

Don in DC : 5/8/2018 4:00 am
I am envisioning a run-pass balanced offense with both Ellison and Engram on the field a lot, along with OBJ, SS abd SB. Is the era of 3 WRs as the overwhelmingly dominant set over for us?

The Vikes ran 3 WR sets 56% of the time last year under Shurmur as OC, and 2 TE sets 29% of the time. Interestingly, the Vikes went play-action 29% of the time.

I suspect that our talent balance will lend itself to even more 2 TE sets than Shurmur ran in Minny. Maybe even more play action too.
The Giants have the benefit of a TE  
bLiTz 2k : 5/8/2018 5:29 am : link
who can play every receiving position and doesnít have to come off the field regardless of formation. By nature you will probably see ď2 TEĒ quite a bit, but thatís all dependent on how you classify Engram on those plays.
Who  
Dragon : 5/8/2018 5:44 am : link
Is the second TE last time I checked they only had one legitimate TE
We have 3 legit TE's  
RobCrossRiver56 : 5/8/2018 6:06 am : link
.
RE: Who  
KingBlue : 5/8/2018 6:44 am : link
In comment 13957564 Dragon said:
Quote:
Is the second TE last time I checked they only had one legitimate TE


Engram, Ellison, Adams
I would think so, for a number of reasons  
ZogZerg : 5/8/2018 6:55 am : link
1. We don't have a WR 3 on the roster
2. We will be running the ball more and need a blocking TE in the game.
3. Barkley can "act" as a WR in various plays since he is so good at catching the ball.
I hope so  
giants#1 : 5/8/2018 6:59 am : link
I think 2 TEs, forces the D into their base 43 (or 34) which in turn creates the most mismatches for the Giants in the passing game. Beckham/SS will obviously draw the CBs, but Barkley and Engram will then be matched up against slower LBs.
Not sure,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/8/2018 7:35 am : link
but just getting Ellison on the field and used by Shurmur as he used him in Minny, would be a big, possibly huge, plus
Every other team in the NFL ran about 5 times  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/8/2018 7:46 am : link
More two TE sets than McAdoo. By the time Sullivan took over and corrected that somewhat injured and the implosion made it too late to see how that would have helped.

It doesnít have to be every play just as 3 WRs. The beauty of Engram is that he can run the WR route tree. You can even go 3 TE and the split him out.

Shurmur from all will use his players well. That will be a huge upgrade regardless of formation. Thatís the point. Mara still should be checked for dementia for that hire.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/8/2018 7:49 am : link
Oh poor Dorgan

Quote:
Who
Dragon : 5:44 am : link : reply
Is the second TE last time I checked they only had one legitimate TE


It's like he's saddled with Bizarro Dorgan the guy who knows little football to balance the guy who knows a shit ton of it.
The Norm?? I would say no  
blueblood : 5/8/2018 8:22 am : link
Most teams run 11 Personnel (3Wr's TE and a RB) over 50% of the time. So I dont think it will be the norm. Shurmur will run 2TE more than McAdoo ran it for sure.. but then McAdoo was clueless about how to utilize the Giants talents other than OBJ. I expect the Giants to utilize 12 personnel more than the Giants did last year. I also expect him to mix in some 22 and some 21 as well.
.....  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 8:26 am : link
it better be the base personnel  
GiantsFan84 : 5/8/2018 8:27 am : link
thats the whole advantage of having players with versatility like engram and ellison (can play TE and some FB)
Ellison could also line up as the FB a la the way Gilbride used  
Victor in CT : 5/8/2018 8:47 am : link
Bear Pascoe. I like that because they don't have to sub and tip off the plays.
RE: Who  
JCin332 : 5/8/2018 8:59 am : link
In comment 13957564 Dragon said:
Quote:
Is the second TE last time I checked they only had one legitimate TE


Lol you really are lost bro...
Yes! Surprised by the hyper-anxiety over WR depth...  
the mike : 5/8/2018 9:25 am : link
The Giants have one of the best blocking tight ends in football in Ellison. Engram may be the best emerging hybrid WR/TE in the sport - he is just as strong in motion as an X as he is "in line" as a Y. Beckham is a top three WR in the sport and Shepard is an excellent possession slot receiver. So naturally, a two tight end set of Engram and Ellison, with Beckham as the X, Shepard as the Z and Barkley in the backfield, will be the base offense this year. Adams is a solid backup tight end and Latimer, Lewis and Rudolph are adequate backup WRs.

Along with solid depth now at RB, it seems to me that this is the finest set of offensive weapons we have had around here since maybe ever... Hopefully for four WR sets, Lewis and Latimore will be fine. If neither are making good progress in camp, then it may be worth signing a veteran before the season starts. But I would wait until early September to decide - none of the current free agents to me are upgrades over Latimer and Lewis...
Those numbers donít sound right. That means 85% of the time  
Ivan15 : 5/8/2018 9:46 am : link
they had 2 TEs or 3 TEs.

That would mean they rarely went 3 wide. If thatís the case, the Giants wonít need another WR, and probably have too many now.
As long as they don't have the same people  
NoPeanutz : 5/8/2018 9:58 am : link
and same formations on the field 90+% of plays, like we had the last two seasons, I'd be up for anything.
RE: Those numbers donít sound right. That means 85% of the time  
Don in DC : 5/8/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13957727 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
they had 2 TEs or 3 TEs.

That would mean they rarely went 3 wide. If thatís the case, the Giants wonít need another WR, and probably have too many now.


Might want to try reading my OP again.
On the one hand the whole Shanny Jr  
idiotsavant : 5/8/2018 12:13 pm : link
Atlanta 2016 outside zone run left / roll out QB right / etc., thing seems super practical and kicks ass. And whereas we Ranted on this prior to the 2017 season and prior to 2016 also. On the other hand:

I'm not sure if some fans aren't overestimating Ellison as a run blocker based on mostly reputation, or Adams as well for that matter. Or whomever is on the roster at TE - if EE is split wide.

cruz or dez might be an option  
msh : 5/9/2018 3:39 am : link
cruz isnt the same player he was,speed and cut wise but still a good possession receiver already familiar with the offence and should have a better understanding with eli as well.bryant isnt the number 1 WR anymore but in the giants team as number 2 could work,especially against the divisional rivals as he may be extra motivated ,all depends what the price is as the giants are short on cap space dez is an outside guy whereas cruz would be competing with shepard for slot so that might hurt his chances of returning

i would like a bigger outside guy they are lacking that particularly in the redzone where eli liked that corner fade to plax so much they could do with a 6-5" type guy opposite beckham they have so many mismatch oppourtunities now couldnt hurt to add another one defences would struggle to deal with too
What??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/9/2018 8:00 am : link
How would Cruz be familiar with the offense??
RE: The Norm?? I would say no  
Section331 : 5/9/2018 9:41 am : link
In comment 13957620 blueblood said:
Quote:
Most teams run 11 Personnel (3Wr's TE and a RB) over 50% of the time. So I dont think it will be the norm. Shurmur will run 2TE more than McAdoo ran it for sure.. but then McAdoo was clueless about how to utilize the Giants talents other than OBJ. I expect the Giants to utilize 12 personnel more than the Giants did last year. I also expect him to mix in some 22 and some 21 as well.


Exactly. Shurmer will certainly run it more than McAdoo, but no more than he did at Minny. Keep in mind that when a 2nd TE is coming onto the field, it is Sterling Shepard who is likely going off.

I think there will be ample opportunity to use 21 personnel, but it will be 3 WR's more often than not.
RE: What??  
YAJ2112 : 5/9/2018 11:00 am : link
In comment 13958860 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
How would Cruz be familiar with the offense??


Isn't Ted Cruz from Minnesota? Or did Jose Cruz spend time with Shurmur somewhere?
RE: RE: What??  
Klaatu : 5/9/2018 11:31 am : link
In comment 13959071 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 13958860 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


How would Cruz be familiar with the offense??



Isn't Ted Cruz from Minnesota? Or did Jose Cruz spend time with Shurmur somewhere?


You imgrate! He's talking about Penelope Cruz!
RE: RE: RE: What??  
YAJ2112 : 5/9/2018 11:32 am : link
In comment 13959119 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13959071 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


In comment 13958860 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


How would Cruz be familiar with the offense??



Isn't Ted Cruz from Minnesota? Or did Jose Cruz spend time with Shurmur somewhere?



You imgrate! He's talking about Penelope Cruz!


Yeah, but she's a hybrid WR/TE.
RE: RE: RE: RE: What??  
Klaatu : 5/9/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13959122 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 13959119 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 13959071 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


In comment 13958860 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


How would Cruz be familiar with the offense??



Isn't Ted Cruz from Minnesota? Or did Jose Cruz spend time with Shurmur somewhere?



You imgrate! He's talking about Penelope Cruz!



Yeah, but she's a hybrid WR/TE.


You're confusing her with her sister.

RE: RE: The Norm?? I would say no  
Don in DC : 5/9/2018 6:06 pm : link
In comment 13958963 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13957620 blueblood said:


Quote:


Most teams run 11 Personnel (3Wr's TE and a RB) over 50% of the time. So I dont think it will be the norm. Shurmur will run 2TE more than McAdoo ran it for sure.. but then McAdoo was clueless about how to utilize the Giants talents other than OBJ. I expect the Giants to utilize 12 personnel more than the Giants did last year. I also expect him to mix in some 22 and some 21 as well.



Exactly. Shurmer will certainly run it more than McAdoo, but no more than he did at Minny. Keep in mind that when a 2nd TE is coming onto the field, it is Sterling Shepard who is likely going off.

I think there will be ample opportunity to use 21 personnel, but it will be 3 WR's more often than not.


So, your assumption is that Shep will be treated as an essentially exclusively slot receiver? He can't be effective (or more effective than the other options on the roster) at the X or Z? I find that a little hard to swallow, but I am no expert.

So, who do you see playing the outside opposite Beckham? Lewis?

I think two TEs  
PEEJ : 5/9/2018 6:18 pm : link
will be on the field together a lot. Ellison can line up in the backfield or on the line. Engram can line up on the LOS or go in motion to become the "3rd WR". I expect a lot of pre-snap motion
RE: I think two TEs  
Jimmy Googs : 5/9/2018 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13959636 PEEJ said:
Quote:
will be on the field together a lot. Ellison can line up in the backfield or on the line. Engram can line up on the LOS or go in motion to become the "3rd WR". I expect a lot of pre-snap motion


Hopefully we don't have to put up with a lot of pre-snap illegal motion penalties as well...
Love the 2 Tight End sets by the way  
Jimmy Googs : 5/9/2018 6:27 pm : link
Lets give the Defense a moment of pause as to what we are planning with multiple options out of multiple player groupings.

That with the added level of speed to this Offense with OBJ, Engram and now Barkley, its all deadly :-)

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