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OK Lets talk new offensive system

superspynyg : 5/8/2018 9:35 am
I have read a couple of articles/interviews that have stated generally speaking that new offenses can take a while for everyone to get comfortable and on the same page. Some say around half of a regular season or longer. A good example of this would be the Falcons when hired Shanahan as OC. Year 1 they were terrible(especially Matt Ryan). They had a play makers in Julio, Freeman, Coleman and Sanu. They also had holes in the oline (Center for example). The next season they came out like juggernauts. Matt Ryan MVP. NFC Champs.

There have been some instances where the new offense clicks right away and comes out on fire. A good example 2017 Rams. McVey hired as HC and they click from snap 1. They had fixed their oline with Whitworth but had a 2nd year qb in Goff. Remember that Rams 2017 offense was abysmal.

So having said all this what are your realistic expectations for the Giants offence this year (especially in the first half of the season? We have bits and pieces of both previous mentioned teams. Vet qb, better oline, playmakers in OBJ, Barkley, Sheppard, Engram. We also have a new offense. BUT we have a really tough schedule to deal with first half.

I know its very early and we haven't even had rookie mini camp but its something to discuss.
Well one this is for sure  
blueblood : 5/8/2018 9:46 am : link
it cant get much worse..
McVay and Shurmur  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/8/2018 9:48 am : link
both incorporate Spread concepts into their offenses, which

a) Makes them easier on the QBs
b) Simplifies the offense

The way Shurmur talks about deploying offenses, I am sure they will start off playing offensively with things that Eli is most comfortable with and then expand the offense from there.
By far the single most encouraging thing I've heard about Shurmur  
Heisenberg : 5/8/2018 9:51 am : link
is that he tailors his system to the strengths of the roster. A lot of guys rigidly stick to their system come hell or high water.
I expect the offense to click right away  
ZogZerg : 5/8/2018 10:12 am : link
By that, I mean I expect them to look better than than they did last year right away and to improve throughout the year.
I think the offense  
TrueBlue56 : 5/8/2018 10:15 am : link
Will be good early on. The 2 biggest factors to me is shurmurs ability to tailor an offense to the strengths of the individual and the offense as a whole.

I also believe that mcadoo never took advantage of the talent on this team and it was majorly misused. Shurmur will move players around, look to create mismatches.

RE: I expect the offense to click right away  
giants#1 : 5/8/2018 10:26 am : link
In comment 13957770 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
By that, I mean I expect them to look better than than they did last year right away and to improve throughout the year.


That just takes getting a first down and avoiding the 3 and out!
With a new offense and so many new pieces,  
Section331 : 5/8/2018 10:26 am : link
there are bound to be some hiccups early on, but how much worse can it be? I cannot stress how badly designed McAdoo's "schemes" were. A HS coach would be embarrassed to put out the playbook he was using.

We will have to be patient, as there will be growing pains. We don't even have all of our personnel in place. Who is our 3rd WR? So it will take a while for everyone to get on the same page, but in the long term, I have high hopes.
going to be painful  
mdc1 : 5/8/2018 11:01 am : link
.
RE: going to be painful  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 13957842 mdc1 said:
Quote:
.


Why?
Half the team was injured by midyear and the schemes sucked  
jcn56 : 5/8/2018 11:08 am : link
It's really not a stretch to say it'll be better, before you consider adding a guy like Barkley.

The question is - how much better? And will the defense come anywhere close to it's 2016 form?
superspy  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/8/2018 11:15 am : link
A big thing going for us is we have a vet, cerebral QB who has run multiple offenses already. Shurmur I'm betting will work to incorporate and keep things somewhat similar. And our top receiving threats are not rookies (OBJ and Shepard) and are also 'smart' receivers who seem to pick up nuances of the game quickly. For the running game, we brought in a wily vet who worked under Shula and our rookie prize #2 pick is a very smart cookie and hard worker.
Build up the running game, get the play action going again  
JonC : 5/8/2018 11:21 am : link
play to their passing strengths similar to 2014-16, with the added fuel of SB's versatility and Engram's ability to create mismatches.

Keeping a defense honest will go a long way in creating space and creases to attack downfield.
Finally a thread NOT about  
rebel yell : 5/8/2018 11:24 am : link
whether we should have picked SB at #2. There is a God!
For me, it's all about the offensive line.  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 11:41 am : link
I like the free agent acquisitions, even if Solder cost an arm and a leg, and I like the Hernandez pick. I'm not sold on Jones, but we could do a lot worse, and I have no idea who's going to win the RT job (but my gut says Wheeler). I hope they get their starting five in place ASAP, and give them as much time as the league allows for them to gel.
Klaatu,  
Doomster : 5/8/2018 11:57 am : link
I think a fire may be lit under Flower's ass at RT......playing for next year's contract should be a good motivator, unless the guy is completely stupid.....
RE: Klaatu,  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 11:58 am : link
In comment 13957941 Doomster said:
Quote:
I think a fire may be lit under Flower's ass at RT......playing for next year's contract should be a good motivator, unless the guy is completely stupid.....


Who are you, and what have you done with Doomster?
speed lines  
JonC : 5/8/2018 12:09 pm : link
lots of speed lines.
RE: By far the single most encouraging thing I've heard about Shurmur  
ron mexico : 5/8/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13957740 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
is that he tailors his system to the strengths of the roster. A lot of guys rigidly stick to their system come hell or high water.


McAdoo said the same thing....
RE: RE: By far the single most encouraging thing I've heard about Shurmur  
giants#1 : 5/8/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13957980 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 13957740 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


is that he tailors his system to the strengths of the roster. A lot of guys rigidly stick to their system come hell or high water.



McAdoo said the same thing....


Shurmur has a track history of accomplishing this, particularly in MN. The Vikes offense changed drastically from 2016-17 based on the differing personnel (quick throws with Bradford, moved the pocket more with Keenum, etc).
RE: Klaatu,  
rebel yell : 5/8/2018 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13957941 Doomster said:
Quote:
I think a fire may be lit under Flower's ass at RT......playing for next year's contract should be a good motivator, unless the guy is completely stupid.....

I'm reading exactly the opposite from some sports writers. There's some speculation the Giants may just cut him loose due to his shitty attitude. That would be a real wake up call if it happened.
RE: McVay and Shurmur  
RetroJint : 5/8/2018 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13957729 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
both incorporate Spread concepts into their offenses, which

a) Makes them easier on the QBs
b) Simplifies the offense

The way Shurmur talks about deploying offenses, I am sure they will start off playing offensively with things that Eli is most comfortable with and then expand the offense from there.
.

But did you not just recently observe that McAdoo did not protect the edges enough, what with his unwillingness to deploy 2 Tight End sets? And now you promote spreads ? A foolish consistency...
RE: RE: RE: By far the single most encouraging thing I've heard about Shurmur  
RetroJint : 5/8/2018 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13957987 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13957980 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 13957740 Heisenberg said:

How was his track record against the Eagles in the very last game that he coached ? How did McAdoo and Sullivan do against the same team, earlier in the season ?


Quote:


is that he tailors his system to the strengths of the roster. A lot of guys rigidly stick to their system come hell or high water.



McAdoo said the same thing....



Shurmur has a track history of accomplishing this, particularly in MN. The Vikes offense changed drastically from 2016-17 based on the differing personnel (quick throws with Bradford, moved the pocket more with Keenum, etc).
RE: I think the offense  
RetroJint : 5/8/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13957773 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
Will be good early on. The 2 biggest factors to me is shurmurs ability to tailor an offense to the strengths of the individual and the offense as a whole.

I also believe that mcadoo never took advantage of the talent on this team and it was majorly misused. Shurmur will move players around, look to create mismatches.

Please explain where McAdoo underutilized talent ? Like with Beckham , for instance ? Under whom did Eli have his last good season ?
I think they'll run a ton of 2 TE 2 WR 1 RB sets  
DennyInDenville : 5/8/2018 1:12 pm : link
It puts our best talent and personnel on the field

Ellison to help block , Engram out there also helping out as a dual threat..

Eli just needs to practice his swing passes and the like , he will need to utilize that pass and hit SB in stride out of the backfield . It's Eli's biggest weakness in his passing tree , but I think he fixes it this offseason finally and becomes good at it instead of sub par
PAIN  
SGMen : 5/8/2018 1:22 pm : link
I expect early season struggles. A 2 - 6 start and 6 - 2 finish would not surprise me. Our early schedule looks hard but who knows. I'm hoping for a 9 - 7 maybe wildcard.
RE: PAIN  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/8/2018 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13958062 SGMen said:
Quote:
I expect early season struggles. A 2 - 6 start and 6 - 2 finish would not surprise me. Our early schedule looks hard but who knows. I'm hoping for a 9 - 7 maybe wildcard.


Enough saavy vet talent to pick up on the changes relatively quickly. I say it might be like Spags first year where to took them 3 games or so for the light to go on.
Iím not so worried about the offense. The defense may take a half  
Ivan15 : 5/8/2018 1:55 pm : link
Season to get rolling.
RE: Iím not so worried about the offense. The defense may take a half  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/8/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13958113 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Season to get rolling.


Yes it will be quite interesting to see how and for that matter how long it takes the D to take shape.
RE: RE: McVay and Shurmur  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/8/2018 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13958035 RetroJint said:
Quote:
In comment 13957729 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


both incorporate Spread concepts into their offenses, which

a) Makes them easier on the QBs
b) Simplifies the offense

The way Shurmur talks about deploying offenses, I am sure they will start off playing offensively with things that Eli is most comfortable with and then expand the offense from there.

.

But did you not just recently observe that McAdoo did not protect the edges enough, what with his unwillingness to deploy 2 Tight End sets? And now you promote spreads ? A foolish consistency...


We have completely different set of guys playing the offensive line last year, and Solder came from a Spread Type offense.

Shurmur knows what he is doing, unlike McAdoo. He doesn't run a pure spread, put a power spread, and I am excited to see us run a modern offense.

RE: RE: I think the offense  
TrueBlue56 : 5/8/2018 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13958040 RetroJint said:
Quote:
In comment 13957773 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


Will be good early on. The 2 biggest factors to me is shurmurs ability to tailor an offense to the strengths of the individual and the offense as a whole.

I also believe that mcadoo never took advantage of the talent on this team and it was majorly misused. Shurmur will move players around, look to create mismatches.



Please explain where McAdoo underutilized talent ? Like with Beckham , for instance ? Under whom did Eli have his last good season ?


When did you see mcadoo put Beckham in motion or put him in the slot or other side to get a favorable match up or confuse a defense. How many times did mcadoo have the giants in 11 personnel? I saw quite a few passes to Ellison in the flat during preseason, but yet hardly saw Ellison on the field during the regular season, nevermind any effort to get him involved in the passing game even with all the struggles and injuries. I can go on and on with the ineptitude of mcadoo and it will be clear just how bad he was with shurmur and shula putting their footprint on this offense

And as far as Eli's last good season. Remember one thing, it was still Tom Coughlins offense with some wrinkles of mcadoo. Mcadoo is fine when he is reined in by others, but on his own...he is as useless as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest!!

Well,  
Doomster : 5/8/2018 8:58 pm : link
RE: Klaatu,
rebel yell : 12:44 pm : link : reply
I'm reading exactly the opposite from some sports writers. There's some speculation the Giants may just cut him loose due to his shitty attitude. That would be a real wake up call if it happened.


If the Giants cut him, it goes to Flower's advantage.....his money is guaranteed, 2.4M.....and a dead cap of almost 4.6M....he gets his money, and he can sign another deal with another team...it's like getting a RAISE!

Can the Giants afford 4.6M in dead cap, plus spend more money to replace him?

You bring him to camp, and you try to make him a RT/G.....if the guy is a cancer in the locker room/doesn't show effort, then you may have to take drastic steps.....

The guy was a top 10 pick....he has some talent....he has terrible technique, something Solari never attempted to fix.....Hopefully, Rosenhaus is explaining the facts of life to Flowers....his next contract, depends on what he does on the field this year....
Here we are hoping again with the offensive line  
widmerseyebrow : 5/9/2018 12:04 am : link
That they'll somehow make chicken salad out of chicken shit. I hope there's another acquisition somewhere.
No amount of coaching genius is going to make up  
Marty in Albany : 5/9/2018 8:10 am : link
for not having a big fast WR to complement OBJ.
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