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Do we have enough pass rushers?

adamg : 5/8/2018 12:21 pm
Outside of Vernon I'm not very confident about our pass rush depth. Lorenzo Carter is exciting but he's one guy. Do we have money to add another guy even an old vet?
No, we clearly don't have enough  
Jimmy Googs : 5/8/2018 12:24 pm : link
but at least in a 3-4 design, the DC can be more creative on where pressure comes from...

McIntosh can rush the passer too.  
Brown Recluse : 5/8/2018 12:26 pm : link
As can Ogletree.

But no, we really don't - at least as far as known quantities are concerned. Hopefully some other players will step up.
you can never have enough pass rushers  
ECham : 5/8/2018 12:26 pm : link
but
1) there is hope some of the young players step up - Moss, Okwara or Carter etc.
2) the nature of Betchers defense you would hope that the scheme can generate pressure, basically by overloading blitzes.
Related to this i think you will be Collins get 5+ sacks this year as the blitzer up the middle
.  
arcarsenal : 5/8/2018 12:27 pm : link
Right now, no - we don't. But we can't fix everything in one shot. Definitely needs to be priority though.
I thought Moss  
giants#1 : 5/8/2018 12:28 pm : link
flashed in limited action last year. I'm interested in seeing what Bettcher can do with him, at least in sub packages.
I take back the Olgetree comment.  
Brown Recluse : 5/8/2018 12:29 pm : link
I think had him confused with someone else.
No, it wouldn't hurt to get that elite edge rusher  
JonC : 5/8/2018 12:38 pm : link
while we have some parts to work with.
Jon in NYC  
dep026 : 5/8/2018 12:40 pm : link
will be stoked when Rashan Gary is a Giant next year ;)
RE: you can never have enough pass rushers  
RetroJint : 5/8/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13957991 ECham said:
Quote:
but
1) there is hope some of the young players step up - Moss, Okwara or Carter etc.
2) the nature of Betchers defense you would hope that the scheme can generate pressure, basically by overloading blitzes.
Related to this i think you will be Collins get 5+ sacks this year as the blitzer up the middle

I guarantee you that if Collins gets sacks this season , they will not come from up the middle .
No.  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 1:25 pm : link
Vernon needs to really step up his game (I'm tired of hearing about his "pressures." Seal the deal, pally, or move on). Martin needs to show that he can be a pass-rushing force off the edge. I don't expect Carter to make much of an impact early on. Moss may surprise, but he's still an enigma to me.
RE: No, we clearly don't have enough  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/8/2018 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13957985 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but at least in a 3-4 design, the DC can be more creative on where pressure comes from...


Agreed with Jimmy with the caveat being if some of these rooks surprise starting with the ultra athletic speed/size freak Zo Carter.
Pass rusher in a 3-4 is different  
George from PA : 5/8/2018 2:09 pm : link
Bettcher is very creative....will use Collins, any of the LBers....etc....plenty of cat and mouse with blitz packages....so pressures will be coming from different sources....ideal for guys like Carter, Ogletree and OV.....if any of the 300lb DL can add any pressure, it will be gravy
I don't expect much in the way of sacks from Ogletree.  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 2:28 pm : link
That's not his forte. He only has 5.5 for his career. Pursuit and coverage are his strengths.

I can see Goodson picking up a couple, blitzing, busting through the middle.

I really don't know about our DE/DTs. Have to see how they're used first.
Good question  
giantsFC : 5/8/2018 2:39 pm : link
This defense could be an absolute disaster this year. I have no idea what to expect from it as most of the supposedly best pass rush talent was designed for a 4-3.

I'm guessing the free agency signings and the draft indicates the Giants want a stable, consistent defense over a dominant one for now
RE: RE: No, we clearly don't have enough  
Jimmy Googs : 5/8/2018 2:42 pm : link
In comment 13958087 Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx said:
Quote:
In comment 13957985 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


but at least in a 3-4 design, the DC can be more creative on where pressure comes from...




Agreed with Jimmy with the caveat being if some of these rooks surprise starting with the ultra athletic speed/size freak Zo Carter.


Carter bringing the hammer on some opposing QBs would be a welcome site...
RE: RE: RE: No, we clearly don't have enough  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/8/2018 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13958173 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13958087 Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx said:


Quote:


In comment 13957985 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


but at least in a 3-4 design, the DC can be more creative on where pressure comes from...




Agreed with Jimmy with the caveat being if some of these rooks surprise starting with the ultra athletic speed/size freak Zo Carter.



Carter bringing the hammer on some opposing QBs would be a welcome site...


Giants said he had more QB pressures/hits than anyone in the draft including Chubb. Thats a pretty good stat
RE: RE: RE: RE: No, we clearly don't have enough  
Brown Recluse : 5/8/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13958193 Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx said:
Quote:
In comment 13958173 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 13958087 Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx said:


Quote:


In comment 13957985 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


but at least in a 3-4 design, the DC can be more creative on where pressure comes from...




Agreed with Jimmy with the caveat being if some of these rooks surprise starting with the ultra athletic speed/size freak Zo Carter.



Carter bringing the hammer on some opposing QBs would be a welcome site...



Giants said he had more QB pressures/hits than anyone in the draft including Chubb. Thats a pretty good stat


Yeah, sounds awesome. He should pair well with Vernon, who is also great at pressuring the QB but for some reason can't get any sacks.
Ogletree doesn't completely add up for me  
JonC : 5/8/2018 3:29 pm : link
His best play in the NFL that I'm aware came at 4-3 WILL, and he's paid like an elite one. Not many 3-4 ILBs make an impact rushing the passer, they'll need the DL to keep him clean and let him pursue the ball.
RE:  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13958205 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:


Yeah, sounds awesome. He should pair well with Vernon, who is also great at pressuring the QB but for some reason can't get any sacks.


Except that in the near term, Carter will most likely be playing behind Martin, opposite Avery Moss on the 2nd team.
RE: RE:  
Brown Recluse : 5/8/2018 3:37 pm : link
In comment 13958225 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13958205 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:




Yeah, sounds awesome. He should pair well with Vernon, who is also great at pressuring the QB but for some reason can't get any sacks.



Except that in the near term, Carter will most likely be playing behind Martin, opposite Avery Moss on the 2nd team.


I was just being sarcastic. I'm looking forward to seeing Carter play.
RE: RE: RE:  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13958232 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:


Yeah, sounds awesome. He should pair well with Vernon, who is also great at pressuring the QB but for some reason can't get any sacks.

Except that in the near term, Carter will most likely be playing behind Martin, opposite Avery Moss on the 2nd team.



I was just being sarcastic. I'm looking forward to seeing Carter play.


My bad. Now I see what you were saying. I made a similar point about Vernon earlier in this thread.
Not enough pass rush and a spotty secondary  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/8/2018 7:06 pm : link
is a foul-tasting recipe. There's too much you have to pray goes right for this to work.
DUMB,  
oldog : 5/8/2018 7:33 pm : link
question, its never possible.
The Arizona defense got worse each year with Bettcher as DC  
Go Terps : 5/8/2018 7:35 pm : link
We don't have any top pass rushers, a weak secondary, and a DC that likes to blitz.
In this D your bigs are also rushing  
idiotsavant : 5/8/2018 7:37 pm : link
And don't be surprised to see extras up there, and we have some fairly decent big rotation now.

Plus there's an almost unlimited, a very wide variety of ways to put a front 5 together with this roster.

So i will go with yes.
There are in fact many ways you can scheme pressure  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/8/2018 7:40 pm : link
but the goal of any DC is to be able to get pressure without having to run a blitz. Especially if you're not sure you can trust your cover guys.
RE: The Arizona defense got worse each year with Bettcher as DC  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 8:16 pm : link
In comment 13958446 Go Terps said:
Quote:
We don't have any top pass rushers, a weak secondary, and a DC that likes to blitz.


In point allowed, that's true. They did regress. However there were a variety of factors that caused the regression, and I don't think you can attribute them all to Bettcher.
Well  
idiotsavant : 5/8/2018 8:19 pm : link
If ogletree or Carter ,(or Collins as ILB) can drop to a zone even a little, then you can occasionally blitz a dback.

But, if you consider your 2 big OLBs as extra rush linemen (in addition to front three who all rush), that still leaves you:

6 potential pass defenders.

Ogletree. Carter, Collins, DT, and two corners.

Or ogletree, Collins, DT, and three corners.

Etc.
RE: RE: The Arizona defense got worse each year with Bettcher as DC  
Go Terps : 5/8/2018 8:24 pm : link
In comment 13958498 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13958446 Go Terps said:


Quote:


We don't have any top pass rushers, a weak secondary, and a DC that likes to blitz.



In point allowed, that's true. They did regress. However there were a variety of factors that caused the regression, and I don't think you can attribute them all to Bettcher.


Of course not. But we also don't see any success that we can attribute to Bettcher either.
RE: RE: RE: The Arizona defense got worse each year with Bettcher as DC  
Klaatu : 5/8/2018 8:27 pm : link
In comment 13958507 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13958498 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 13958446 Go Terps said:


Quote:


We don't have any top pass rushers, a weak secondary, and a DC that likes to blitz.


In point allowed, that's true. They did regress. However there were a variety of factors that caused the regression, and I don't think you can attribute them all to Bettcher.


Of course not. But we also don't see any success that we can attribute to Bettcher either.


Consistency in his run defenses, and DG put a premium on that.
Really depends on if Carter is ready to make an impact  
Breeze_94 : 5/8/2018 9:54 pm : link
if he can, than I like this group. OV had his best year in Miami standing up on the edge in a 3-4 OLB type role. Carter has a ton of ability, and i also like Martin. I think he has some upside and could surprise with 6-8 sacks.

Plus, Moss/Okwara as the 4th-5th guys. Obviously not a dominant group, but maybe OV can be a 10-12 sack guy, Carter and Martin each at 6/7, and Moss can get 2 or 3. Plus a few from Ogletree who is an effective blitzer. Also gonna need Collins to get home more like he did 2 years ago- he had 5 sacks in 2016.
They definitely do not  
Jay on the Island : 5/9/2018 10:47 am : link
I am expecting a good year out of Vernon but the OLB opposite him is the question. Martin is more of the savvy veteran who is good against the run but doesn't offer much of a pass rush. Behind him are Moss, Carter, and Okwara who all have promise but we do not know if any of them will provide a boost to the pass rush this season. This defense needs a big time edge rusher but they could create pressure through Bettcher's creative scheme just as Rex Ryan did early on with the Jets.
I loved the Carter pick  
Jay on the Island : 5/9/2018 10:48 am : link
but he needs a year to get stronger. He will likely play in sub packages in a pass rushing role during his rookie season.
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