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NGT: Lions HC Matt Patricia - 1996 Sexual Assault Case

Saos1n : 5/9/2018 10:49 pm
Was charged but never prosecuted...
Yikes - ( New Window )
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If the woman comes forward and says it didn't happen, he's fine.  
81_Great_Dane : 5/10/2018 2:20 am : link
If she says it did, and she was pressured to drop it or some such thing, he's done.

If she can't be found, or is dead, or can't or won't speak, it becomes the elephant in the room, and it's in every room he walks into.
RE: Some news outlets will dig up more info  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/10/2018 2:39 am : link
In comment 13959880 PatchoguePete said:
Quote:
On this case. Once the gory details come out, he ll be fired. Who's their top assistant? He ll end up coaching the team next year.

Are you sure you aren't from Flushing or Bensonhurst?
RE: If the woman comes forward and says it didn't happen, he's fine.  
whozzat : 5/10/2018 5:18 am : link
In comment 13959956 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
...



The woman will not be coming forward to say he didn't do it - you can be pretty sure of that.
If she turns up and says he did it, then he is probably finished. If she does not turn up, and nothing else is unearthed, then things will probably proceed as they would have.

Interestingly, according to the Detroit News, who were the first to report on this, a New Jersey-based private investigation firm requested copies of the indictment and dismissal from the prosecutor’s office back in January.

One wonders who they were working for.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2018/05/09/matt-patricia-indicted-sex-assault/34742627/

RE: I'd say the Giants dodged a bullet  
Tuckrule : 5/10/2018 5:48 am : link
In comment 13959838 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
by not landing the NE Assistants


100 percent. Although I do love McDaniels as an offensive mind
RE: Do not forget  
Giantology : 5/10/2018 6:33 am : link
In comment 13959942 huygens20 said:
Quote:
Gettleman's reported first preference was Patricia.


DG again dodging bullets because he cant even get out of his own way.


Wanted to pay a G, OT money
Gave non probowl OT, top OT money
drafted a RB, after signing a RB to big $


Is somebody still mad that we didn’t draft a QB?
RE: I'd say the Giants dodged a bullet  
ZogZerg : 5/10/2018 6:41 am : link
In comment 13959838 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
by not landing the NE Assistants


Exactly my initial reaction to hearing this.
New York Media would have had a field day with this.
Difficult to see how Patricia survives as head coach...  
the mike : 5/10/2018 6:59 am : link
A grand jury found probable cause for an indictment... the case did not go to trial apparently because the victim chose to not proceed with the trial. This is exactly the type of victim for whom the MeToo movement is fighting. And they will fight hard until they get some semblance of justice. In this case, probably Patricia's termination as head coach. If Bob Quinn knew about this before hiring Patricia, he will likely be fired for gross lack of judgement. If he did not know about this, he will likely be fired for gross negligence. Either way, it is devastating to the team, the city and its fans.

Pat Shurmur could not have been a better choice for the Giants. In a very short period of time, David Gettleman has been virtually flawless in his decision making as our GM...

It is good to be a Giants fan this morning!
Taking any action based on a Grand Jury indictiment  
Bill L : 5/10/2018 7:16 am : link
would make me leery. I feel like it's so low a bar that it's practically resting on the ground. But the fact that an actual prosecutor did not see enough to move forward, whatever happened 22 years ago and it's basically firing a guy based only upon an allegation seems too much to me.
But they suspend players  
Rflairr : 5/10/2018 7:30 am : link
For not being prosecuted
Let me get this straight...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/10/2018 7:50 am : link
on a thread about Matt Patricia, some fuckstick turns it into a chance to bash Gettleman? Is that what we have going now?

Quote:
Do not forget
huygens20 : 1:22 am : link : reply
Gettleman's reported first preference was Patricia.


DG again dodging bullets because he cant even get out of his own way.


Wanted to pay a G, OT money
Gave non probowl OT, top OT money
drafted a RB, after signing a RB to big $


Are you fucking kidding me??
Agree, but the point remains  
Jimmy Googs : 5/10/2018 8:07 am : link
Giants dodged a bullet here if Patricia was a candidate...
RE: Do not forget  
johnnyb : 5/10/2018 8:11 am : link
In comment 13959942 huygens20 said:
Quote:
Gettleman's reported first preference was Patricia.


DG again dodging bullets because he cant even get out of his own way.


Wanted to pay a G, OT money
Gave non probowl OT, top OT money
drafted a RB, after signing a RB to big $


Wow! $1.4 Million an $2.3 Million (2019) is big money? Maybe twenty years ago it was. And wanting to pay a G OT money? Well, someone else did so DG was not alone in valuing this player. And he NEEDED to over pay for Solder. Would you rather have Flowers playing LT this year?

I am guessing you do not like our GM.
RE: RE: Not prosecuted.  
section125 : 5/10/2018 8:17 am : link
In comment 13959940 huygens20 said:
Quote:
In comment 13959860 section125 said:


Quote:


So probably not much there. Funny there was an indictment but the DA decides not to prosecute. I would not but much time in this one.



he was indicted by a jury.


Reading comprehension not big with you, eh? I said he was indicted, but so what. If a DA wants an indictment he gets one. Not hard. He is unopposed, there are no rebuttals. Can state only the facts he wants the grand jury to see.
RE: RE: If the woman comes forward and says it didn't happen, he's fine.  
jcn56 : 5/10/2018 8:19 am : link
In comment 13959961 whozzat said:
Quote:
In comment 13959956 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


...




The woman will not be coming forward to say he didn't do it - you can be pretty sure of that.
If she turns up and says he did it, then he is probably finished. If she does not turn up, and nothing else is unearthed, then things will probably proceed as they would have.

Interestingly, according to the Detroit News, who were the first to report on this, a New Jersey-based private investigation firm requested copies of the indictment and dismissal from the prosecutor’s office back in January.

One wonders who they were working for.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2018/05/09/matt-patricia-indicted-sex-assault/34742627/


Of course, they were working for the evil John Mara. The one who secretly controls the NFL from atop a penthouse in midtown, who ensures that the Cowboys and Redskins are continually in cap hell and fines them at the most inopportune times. Patricia rebuffs the Giants? He'll pay for that...
"Giants make mistake not hiring Patricia" - Gary Myers  
Victor in CT : 5/10/2018 8:24 am : link
.........

Amazing this has never come up before  
larryinnewhaven : 5/10/2018 8:37 am : link
This guy has been a coach on multiple super bowl teams where the media uncovers every tiny story during Super Bowl week and no one unearthed this? He’s in Detroit for 15 minutes and this pops up. Crazy
RE: Do not forget  
Victor in CT : 5/10/2018 8:54 am : link
In comment 13959942 huygens20 said:
Quote:
Gettleman's reported first preference was Patricia.


DG again dodging bullets because he cant even get out of his own way.


Wanted to pay a G, OT money
Gave non probowl OT, top OT money
drafted a RB, after signing a RB to big $


Reported by whom? Pat Leonard? Gary Myers?
RE: RE: RE: Not prosecuted.  
Fred in Atlanta : 5/10/2018 9:07 am : link
In comment 13960015 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13959940 huygens20 said:


Quote:


In comment 13959860 section125 said:


Quote:


So probably not much there. Funny there was an indictment but the DA decides not to prosecute. I would not but much time in this one.



he was indicted by a jury.



Reading comprehension not big with you, eh? I said he was indicted, but so what. If a DA wants an indictment he gets one. Not hard. He is unopposed, there are no rebuttals. Can state only the facts he wants the grand jury to see.


I was on a grand jury once for a month in Georgia. we looked at over 400 cases, only 2 times we did not give indictments and both times the cop they put on the stand basically said that the people were innocent and one of those cases had video proof that the guy was innocent. So indictments do not mean much.
blah blah blah.  
Brown Recluse : 5/10/2018 9:13 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not prosecuted.  
Bill L : 5/10/2018 9:16 am : link
In comment 13960069 Fred in Atlanta said:
Quote:
...

I was on a grand jury once for a month in Georgia. we looked at over 400 cases, only 2 times we did not give indictments and both times the cop they put on the stand basically said that the people were innocent and one of those cases had video proof that the guy was innocent. So indictments do not mean much.


That was my experience here in NY as well. Although, we did wobble a little about the ham sandwich because we thought it might have been really been the pickle that did it, but in the end, the DA got his indictment.
I  
dorgan : 5/10/2018 11:03 am : link
would have thought that the two colleges (Syracuse & Amherst) he coached at following this incident would have vetted him thoroughly, but apparently they didn't have this information either.

RE: If the woman comes forward and says it didn't happen, he's fine.  
UESBLUE : 5/10/2018 11:38 am : link
In comment 13959956 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
If she says it did, and she was pressured to drop it or some such thing, he's done.

If she can't be found, or is dead, or can't or won't speak, it becomes the elephant in the room, and it's in every room he walks into.

^^^This. The guy is now radioactive.
RE: Do not forget  
montanagiant : 5/10/2018 11:58 am : link
In comment 13959942 huygens20 said:
Quote:
Gettleman's reported first preference was Patricia.


DG again dodging bullets because he cant even get out of his own way.


Wanted to pay a G, OT money
Gave non probowl OT, top OT money
drafted a RB, after signing a RB to big $

LMAO...You either are the worse troll I have seen on here or the dumbest Giants fan.
Yeah I think he's in trouble in keeping his job  
moespree : 5/10/2018 12:02 pm : link
I'm not usually one to jump to the conclusion when something happens that society will force you out. But this does not look good. He was indicted for the incident. That's not just an accusation. That's a formal criminal indictment by a grand jury meaning enough evidence was there.

And the statement by the Lions of “Matt was 21 at the time and on spring break in Texas” is an example of a stupid response. What is the point of that statement? Because it reads like, well, he was young and dumb so...

The pressure will be put on them now. I don't know if he is going to survive it.
This highlights the problem with  
Knineteen : 5/10/2018 12:26 pm : link
the #MeToo movement. Assuming Patricia was indeed falsely accused, in the court of public opinion he will be portrayed guilty rather than innocent with no direct or clear path to clear his name.
With Lions saying  
UESBLUE : 5/10/2018 12:40 pm : link
“Matt was 21 at the time and on spring break in Texas”, it sure doesnt sound like they think he was falsely accused. That reads to me like an admission of guilt.
Lions released a statement saying they're keeping him,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/10/2018 12:49 pm : link
so...
If this was a criminal situation  
Bill L : 5/10/2018 1:05 pm : link
would there be a statute of limitations?
It's troubling the accuser never pursued  
Knineteen : 5/10/2018 1:08 pm : link
legal action. And no settlement was ever agreed upon between the parties.

I have a hard time understanding what there is to investigate going forward.
RE: RE: The case never even went to trial  
njm : 5/10/2018 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13959949 huygens20 said:
Quote:
In comment 13959927 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


To say he's going to lose his job over an allegation from 22 years ago that never even went to trial is ridiculous.




he was indicted


And to resurrect a quote from Frank Hogan, back in the 50's or 60's the District Attorney of Manhattan:

"If I want to I can indict a ham sandwich."

If the accuser goes public and reiterates the charges he could have big problems. If not this will go away.

RE: If this was a criminal situation  
njm : 5/10/2018 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13960327 Bill L said:
Quote:
would there be a statute of limitations?


Not with respect to getting fired by the Lions.
RE: This highlights the problem with  
Brown Recluse : 5/10/2018 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13960285 Knineteen said:
Quote:
the #MeToo movement. Assuming Patricia was indeed falsely accused, in the court of public opinion he will be portrayed guilty rather than innocent with no direct or clear path to clear his name.


Why would someone start a movement like this and call it "pound me too?"
RE: RE: RE: The case never even went to trial  
GiantsLaw : 5/10/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13960343 njm said:
Quote:
If the accuser goes public and reiterates the charges he could have big problems. If not this will go away.


Totally agree. If she goes on the interview circuit I don't think he survives. It'd be he said/she said, and nowadays she said holds substantial weight.
Regarding the Lions statement  
BlackLight : 5/10/2018 2:36 pm : link
I didn't see anything wrong with it, but it's clear the brass needs to leave itself an out, in case this revelation should open a floodgate of accusers whose claims can be better substantiated.

If the statement seems like less than a 100% endorsement of Patricia, I can't say I blame them.
RE: RE: If this was a criminal situation  
Bill L : 5/10/2018 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13960344 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13960327 Bill L said:


Quote:


would there be a statute of limitations?



Not with respect to getting fired by the Lions.
No I know that. But it goes to the dust on this allegation and perhaps how the Lions should view it.
There's an expression  
Greg from LI : 5/10/2018 2:58 pm : link
"A good prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich." An indictment means very little in the grand scheme of things. Innocent people go to trial all the time. More than most people care to admit, innocent people go to prison.

This goes beyond "innocent until proven guilty". This is "innocent until anyone even attempted to prove him guilty". It's a reprehensible mindset. I weep for the state of civil liberty in this country.
RE: There's an expression  
81_Great_Dane : 5/11/2018 1:55 am : link
In comment 13960457 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
This goes beyond "innocent until proven guilty". This is "innocent until anyone even attempted to prove him guilty". It's a reprehensible mindset. I weep for the state of civil liberty in this country.
With respect, I disagree about what's happening here.

The presumption of innocence has to do with how you're treated by the government. You cannot suffer punishment at the hands of the government until you are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It doesn't have to do with what we say on a bulletin board, or what the Detroit Lions can do with their hiring policy. Nobody's talking about putting Matt Patricia in prison, or having the government take his property. We're talking about whether he can keep his very public, high-profile job. Anybody with a skeleton in their closet who is in a public-facing job runs the risk of being let go because their employer doesn't want the bad press.

If he nothing happened, that's unjust, but it's not because he didn't get the benefit of the presumption of innocence. He will walk away a free man, regardless.
I had to read a few stories before finally finding out what Patricia  
cosmicj : 5/11/2018 3:28 am : link
Was accused of. Groping? Vague inappropriate behavior? No, he was accused of breaking into a woman’s room with a friend and - I’m guessing from what wasn’t said - raping her. Read the SI link below and tell me if you draw the same conclusions. This looks awful.

The Lions denials are worded idiotically (are criminal laws suspended on spring break). Patricia’s claims of innocence sound weasel-like. I don’t think Patricia makes it to week 1 as head coach.
Sports Illustrated story - ( New Window )
About MeToo, I think like a lot of people I occupy a middle ground  
cosmicj : 5/11/2018 3:32 am : link
On the movement. Some of the accusations are appalling - I’m very surprised Harvey Weinstein hasn’t been inducted - the man should end his days in jail. The accusations against Charlie Rose or Matt Lauer are disturbing. But then there are other accusations that sound overblown.

So my reaction to the Patricia story was to look for what he had been accused of. It sounds very serious, he may have committed a felony and skated.
Much more detail here  
cosmicj : 5/11/2018 3:46 am : link
.
Detroit News - ( New Window )
after reading that...  
bluepepper : 5/11/2018 8:32 am : link
if the woman chooses to come forward and repeats the same story then he's toast. Especially since the owner is known for her tough stance on stuff like this. Doesn't sound like the alleged victim has any interest in bringing this back up though.

RE: There's an expression  
PatersonPlank : 5/11/2018 10:16 am : link
In comment 13960457 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
"A good prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich." An indictment means very little in the grand scheme of things. Innocent people go to trial all the time. More than most people care to admit, innocent people go to prison.

This goes beyond "innocent until proven guilty". This is "innocent until anyone even attempted to prove him guilty". It's a reprehensible mindset. I weep for the state of civil liberty in this country.


+1. Anyone can accuse anyone of any thing. Then the cops look into it. People are now "Convicted" on just being accused, which is ridiculous. Maybe the lady didn't come forward because it didn't happen, ever think about that? How would you like to be accused of something you didn't do, but yet lose your job etc.? If he wasn't convicted, and not even charged, then from the point of society there should be no consequences.
Assume the NFL will conduct an independent  
the mike : 5/11/2018 10:23 am : link
standard of conduct investigation on its own as it did with Zeke Elliott and others. It will seem like a double standard if they do not... And I assume there is an even higher standard of conduct for a head coach as compared to a player given the leadership requirements of the role...

I recognize this was twenty years ago, but this is not a statute of limitations issue in a court of law. This is a character issue that plays out in both the court of public opinion and in the minds of the players in the locker room. Will likely continue to be a huge distraction....
Gary Myers says: Giants want Patricia as  
Victor in CT : 5/11/2018 10:32 am : link
QB coach, will trade for Ben Rothlisberger :-)
I'm so glad we didn't hire this guy  
Ron from Ninerland : 5/11/2018 3:28 pm : link
Anyone who thinks this is going away is deluding themselves. This isn't some B.S. accusation of him mooning some girl at a frat party, what he is accused of is horrible. According to the Detroit press article, there's an awful lot of smoke here. Patricia and this other guy were arrested right way and indicted. Its also curious how no one "remembers" what happened. If the girl's id was shaky we would have heard about it. If the girl was thought to be lying or lacking in credibility we would have heard about it.

Another thing. Even while the NFL or whoever investigates this incident, they'll be going over Patricia's history with women since then. If he so much as broke wind in the direction of a female since this incident, he's toast
RE: I'm so glad we didn't hire this guy  
ron mexico : 5/11/2018 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13961261 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
Anyone who thinks this is going away is deluding themselves. This isn't some B.S. accusation of him mooning some girl at a frat party, what he is accused of is horrible. According to the Detroit press article, there's an awful lot of smoke here. Patricia and this other guy were arrested right way and indicted. Its also curious how no one "remembers" what happened. If the girl's id was shaky we would have heard about it. If the girl was thought to be lying or lacking in credibility we would have heard about it.

Another thing. Even while the NFL or whoever investigates this incident, they'll be going over Patricia's history with women since then. If he so much as broke wind in the direction of a female since this incident, he's toast


I'm not defending Patricia but why is it hard to believe no one remembers an incident 20 years ago in a party town like that that probably has thousands of incidents a year?

And you haven't heard anything about the girl because she stopped pursuing the case shortly after and has made no comments on it since.

RE: Do not forget  
BigBlue4You09 : 5/11/2018 3:39 pm : link
In comment 13959942 huygens20 said:
Quote:
Gettleman's reported first preference was Patricia.


DG again dodging bullets because he cant even get out of his own way.


Wanted to pay a G, OT money
Gave non probowl OT, top OT money
drafted a RB, after signing a RB to big $


I’d call you an idiot, but that’s already been done. Multiple times. Troll?
wouldn't no one remembering the incident  
giants#1 : 5/11/2018 3:40 pm : link
lend one to believe that it was rather benign and/or sketchy details? If it was a clear cut case of rape and he got off because the woman couldn't bring herself to testify, wouldn't that stick with the DA? And some of the officers at the time?
Where exactly is all the supposed smoke?  
Greg from LI : 5/11/2018 3:43 pm : link
There was an indictment that was dismissed almost 22 years ago. Am I missing something else?

If other allegations surface, then there might be smoke, but as of right now this is a single, two decade old allegation that never went to trial.
RE: RE: There's an expression  
bw in dc : 5/11/2018 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13960966 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:

+1. Anyone can accuse anyone of any thing. Then the cops look into it. People are now "Convicted" on just being accused, which is ridiculous. Maybe the lady didn't come forward because it didn't happen, ever think about that? How would you like to be accused of something you didn't do, but yet lose your job etc.? If he wasn't convicted, and not even charged, then from the point of society there should be no consequences.


Alas, it's a new world - you are guilty until proven innocent.

You would think people - the lynch mob media types - would have learned their lesson with the Duke Lacrosse case. Instead, that was just a bump in the road, and it's full steam ahead; destroying at will.
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