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NFT: Mets Minors 5/10/2018-Ugly again

DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 7:33 am
AAA- Logan Taylor
AA Shaw
AA TBD
A+ Harol
A TBD


AAA
Cecchini 0-3
Dom 1-4
Evans 1-4, HR
Peterson 2 innings 2 hits 1 run 0 walks 0 k's
Bautista 1 inning 5 hits 3 runs 0 walks 0 k's (has been awful lately, hurt? sulking?)


AA
Alonso 1-4, 2b, K
McNeil 1-4, 2b
Champ Stuart 2-35 with 15 k's on the season.... WOW
Uceta 2 innings 3 hits 1 run 0 walks 1 k
McGeorge 1 inning 1 hit 0 runs 0 walks 0 k's

A+
Gimenez 1-4, 2b, K
Lindsay 1-3, BB (7 walks last 10, but hitting .194 over that time)
Carpio 0-3, K
Strom 0-3, 2 k's (.143 last 10 games... woof)
Llanes 8 innings 6 hits 1 run 1 walk 4 k's
Ryan 1 inning 0 hits 0 runs 1 walk 0 k's


A
Fermin 0-4, BB, K
Tiberi 1-3, 3 BB, K
Brodey 1-4, 2b, BB
Vasquez 0-5, 2 k's
Sanchez 3-5, HR (5th career homer)
Winaker 2-4, BB, K
Manea 2-5, HR, K
how bad a shape  
CMicks3110 : 5/10/2018 7:40 am : link
are the Mets in as an organization at this point?

Major League Team seems to be in deep sh*t

And we have four legit prospects right now. Gimeenz, Alonso, Kay, and Peterson and that's it.

Where do we go from here?
Comparing teams  
Tanker20 : 5/10/2018 7:41 am : link
Are the Mets right now in a worse ďlong termĒ position than they were in 2010?

Itís unbelievable how we have not been able to develop any hitters (while the Yankees canít find enough spaces for their young hitter who come up and crush it)

In the last few years our hitting prospects were

Díarnaud
Nimmo
Conforto
D Smith
Cecchini
Rosario
Plawecki
Flores
Lindsay
Ike

None have proven to me to be anything special (Iím down on Conforto right now) or even MLB regulars.
RE: how bad a shape  
Rflairr : 5/10/2018 7:50 am : link
In comment 13959987 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
are the Mets in as an organization at this point?

Major League Team seems to be in deep sh*t

And we have four legit prospects right now. Gimeenz, Alonso, Kay, and Peterson and that's it.

Where do we go from here?


But they just gave their horrible GM an extension. So heíll get the chance to mess up another draft
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 7:54 am : link

Betsy Helfand

@betsyhelfand
Gavin Cecchini took the ball off his instep, a part of the foot, Tony DeFrancesco said. He will get an X-ray tomorrow.
At this point  
Tanker20 : 5/10/2018 8:37 am : link
Is there any way for us to be competitive the next few years unless we sign a Machado plus more? Of course other than praying for pitching health, performance and Jjay Bruce walk years. Which by the way is on its second straight season of being a failed strategy.

The worst part about the Mets sucking is that we donít even get to watch hopeful young players get at bats. There is not fun in me watching a losing team give at bats to Frazier, Bruce, Reyes, Gonzalez etc.

Iíve already slowed down my watching of Mets games.
If it makes anyone feel better  
Shecky : 5/10/2018 9:13 am : link
Jay Horowitz is wearing a Salt and Pepper T shirt this morning...
RE: At this point  
DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 13960038 Tanker20 said:
Quote:
Is there any way for us to be competitive the next few years unless we sign a Machado plus more? Of course other than praying for pitching health, performance and Jjay Bruce walk years. Which by the way is on its second straight season of being a failed strategy.

The worst part about the Mets sucking is that we donít even get to watch hopeful young players get at bats. There is not fun in me watching a losing team give at bats to Frazier, Bruce, Reyes, Gonzalez etc.

Iíve already slowed down my watching of Mets games.


Probably not unless guys like Kay/Peterson rocket through the system and are better than backend guys.
Is Ehalt on the Mets payroll?  
DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 9:24 am : link
Matt Ehalt

Verified account

@MattEhalt
Following Following @MattEhalt
More
With Guillorme on roster, Mets this year have called up:

10th-rounder (Guillorme, '13)
7th-rounder (Oswalt, '12)
12th-rounder (Nido. '12)
13th-rounder (Conlon, '15)

Their system is criticized, but there's more there than they get credit for.

12:11 PM - 9 May 2018

The 4 players have combined (SO FAR, which is what the credit would be for) for -0.2 fWAR. SUB REPLACEMENT LEVEL!!!
Ehalt  
Shecky : 5/10/2018 10:15 am : link
Is Fran and away the best beat writer for the Mets right now. That kid has a very bright future.
Sheck, dmm  
CMicks3110 : 5/10/2018 10:25 am : link
Who do you like in the upcoming draft? I really like madrigal, any chance he's there at 6?
Would love to see  
Metnut : 5/10/2018 10:30 am : link
them draft Joey Bart. Kid can rake and play catcher. Hopefully he's still there at #6.
RE: Sheck, dmm  
DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13960162 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
Who do you like in the upcoming draft? I really like madrigal, any chance he's there at 6?


Very unlikely he falls to 6 at this point. College crop looks weak so far and he's a proven performer. Mets reportedly are eying Joey Bart
How quickly  
CMicks3110 : 5/10/2018 10:39 am : link
Can joey Bart move do you think?
RE: How quickly  
DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 10:42 am : link
In comment 13960188 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
Can joey Bart move do you think?


2020 if you are lucky. College kid or not you gotta figure 2018 is a wash so 1 year in the minors at minimum.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 10:42 am : link
Literally know nothing about him but Ryan Rollison (tied to the Mets at 6) is having an awful season for a potential pick that high #Mets
RE: Is Ehalt on the Mets payroll?  
PhiPsi125 : 5/10/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13960092 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Matt Ehalt

Verified account

@MattEhalt
Following Following @MattEhalt
More
With Guillorme on roster, Mets this year have called up:

10th-rounder (Guillorme, '13)
7th-rounder (Oswalt, '12)
12th-rounder (Nido. '12)
13th-rounder (Conlon, '15)

Their system is criticized, but there's more there than they get credit for.

12:11 PM - 9 May 2018

The 4 players have combined (SO FAR, which is what the credit would be for) for -0.2 fWAR. SUB REPLACEMENT LEVEL!!!


Stuff like this drives me nuts. Acting like it's a feather in our cap that we've called up players from the minors. It's not. Every single one of those guys were called up because of an injury. Like every year. Not because they deserved to or because its "part of their plan." Its out of necessity.

That's why the "so many of Sandy's draft picks have made it to the pros" accomplishment argument gets lost on me. It's not an accomplishment. And they all mostly suck anyway.
Sandy  
spike : 5/10/2018 11:35 am : link
is good at drafting replacement level players.


I cant believe the loss of our two catchers being the first domino that wrecked the 2018 season
.  
arcarsenal : 5/10/2018 11:37 am : link
8 years into Sandy's "rebuild" and we have one good season to show for it and are going in the wrong direction.

I wish I could just root for a different team. I really do. if it was possible, I'd do it.

Rooting for the Mets is so fucking depressing.
Sandy was brought here to rebuild...literally the only thing he had  
PhiPsi125 : 5/10/2018 11:42 am : link
to do. The fact that we are talking about having to rebuild again 8 years later points to Sandy being an abject failure.

What a waste of time Sandy has been.
RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 5/10/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 13960247 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
8 years into Sandy's "rebuild" and we have one good season to show for it and are going in the wrong direction.

I wish I could just root for a different team. I really do. if it was possible, I'd do it.

Rooting for the Mets is so fucking depressing.


I blame my father, a Yankees fan, all the time for putting me through this. That 1986 Mets team screwed me for life, lol.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/10/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 13960253 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13960247 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


8 years into Sandy's "rebuild" and we have one good season to show for it and are going in the wrong direction.

I wish I could just root for a different team. I really do. if it was possible, I'd do it.

Rooting for the Mets is so fucking depressing.



I blame my father, a Yankees fan, all the time for putting me through this. That 1986 Mets team screwed me for life, lol.


I'm one of the only Mets fans in my family, too.

I feel bad for my brother. He's 8 years younger than me and wound up rooting for all the same teams I do. I should have told him not to be a Mets fan. Haha.
A couple of friends  
Jay on the Island : 5/10/2018 11:53 am : link
are Knicks, Mets, and Jets fans. It doesn't get much worse than that.
I could only imagine how could the Phillies would be  
dep026 : 5/10/2018 12:06 pm : link
if they didnt fuck up their top 10 picks with randolph, haseley, and Moniak.
Sandy should be fired  
moespree : 5/10/2018 12:10 pm : link
The team is going backwards in almost every aspect. Not just on the major league level either. His offseason decision making always seems to rely on about 90 different things going right.

And I'm not one to have snap judgements of new people, but I'm not overly impressed with Callaway either, I must admit. I'm not blaming him yet or calling for him to be fired though. Just to make that clear. But all this "forward thinking" and "bold new ideas" that were talked up when he was hired...well where are they? Because for all that talk, it feels a hell of a lot like the last few years, with nothing all that different.
RE: RE: .  
Earl the goat : 5/10/2018 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13960253 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13960247 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


8 years into Sandy's "rebuild" and we have one good season to show for it and are going in the wrong direction.

I wish I could just root for a different team. I really do. if it was possible, I'd do it.

Rooting for the Mets is so fucking depressing.



I blame my father, a Yankees fan, all the time for putting me through this. That 1986 Mets team screwed me for life, lol.


You and I have had our differences especially with Melo
But you are 100% correct. This is all on Sandy. Bad drafting and bad free Agent signings
Unfortunately it is time to rebuild
RE: Sandy should be fired  
arcarsenal : 5/10/2018 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13960272 moespree said:
Quote:
The team is going backwards in almost every aspect. Not just on the major league level either. His offseason decision making always seems to rely on about 90 different things going right.

And I'm not one to have snap judgements of new people, but I'm not overly impressed with Callaway either, I must admit. I'm not blaming him yet or calling for him to be fired though. Just to make that clear. But all this "forward thinking" and "bold new ideas" that were talked up when he was hired...well where are they? Because for all that talk, it feels a hell of a lot like the last few years, with nothing all that different.


Yeah, me too.

First few weeks, he looked brilliant. It seemed like everything was working, he had a good feel for the bullpen, he was using some of the relievers a little less conventionally, etc.

But I don't see any of that now. Really no major difference managerially between Callaway and Collins right now.

I think the roster is the biggest problem, though. Which falls on Alderson's shoulders.

If this year goes the way I fear it will, Alderson should really lose his job. I don't see how anyone can call this a successful tenure so far at all. One postseason appearance. The farm sucks. The MLB roster continues to be flawed year in and year out.

We deserve better than this.
Sandy was Bud Selig's parting gift to Wilpon to keep him in power  
Chris684 : 5/10/2018 1:54 pm : link
Keep counting those beans Sandy!

It's funny how a team that is so cheap and focused on money, still finds new ways to piss it away.

Neil Walker 17 million.

Vargas?

He can't build a bullpen.

He can't draft good players.

This organization no longer develops any good position players.

They have just about blown the window of opportunity for these young pitchers minus Thor.

It's a total disaster.
Neil Walker at 17 million boggles the mind  
Vanzetti : 5/10/2018 2:16 pm : link
especially when he already had Cabrera, Flores, Reyes, and Rosario (at AAA)

Where exactly were all those guys going to play? It's like he decided quantity over quality, hoping if he had a bunch of infielders, one of them would pan out.

Mismanagement of the budget. Sandy is actually better when he has less to spend.
They  
DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 2:17 pm : link
should blow it up.
RE: how bad a shape  
Vanzetti : 5/10/2018 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13959987 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
are the Mets in as an organization at this point?

Major League Team seems to be in deep sh*t

And we have four legit prospects right now. Gimeenz, Alonso, Kay, and Peterson and that's it.

Where do we go from here?



And that is a pathetic list.

Peterson is a 22 year old in the Sally League. Kay shows signs but really projects as a back end guy. Jiminez looks like he might be solid but nothing special.

Alonso is the only guy who exciters me right now. And, who knows, maybe that is fool's gold
RE: They  
arcarsenal : 5/10/2018 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13960399 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
should blow it up.


I agree.

I'd hate to see guys like deGrom go, but I'm too scarred from the way the other pitchers turned out or are turning out and I wouldn't want to give him a big contract when he's no longer under cheap team control.

This team just doesn't seem to be improving or moving in a direction. It's very half-measured and we keep putting teams on the field that need optimal injury luck and breaks to be competitive.

I don't think that's a smart way to build a team.

I think what frustrates me most is that if we did this the right way from the start, we'd probably already be reaping the rewards of a sustainable competitor by now.

Instead, we have to start from scratch because Alderson failed.

A World Series appearance isn't enough for me as a fan, I'm sorry. This team hasn't won a championship since I was 2 years old and we've suffered through so many fucking lost seasons where the team wasn't even watchable by Memorial Day.

One postseason appearance in over a decade isn't enough. There are many teams in this league that are competitive year in and year out with very few exceptions.

Teams like BOS/NYY/StL/SF etc. are basically the reverse of the Mets. The one off years are the down years and they're generally competitive otherwise. For the Mets, we get one outlier season where we're good and then the team is pure garbage for several years surrounding that season.

They are and have been building this thing the wrong way.

I want someone new with a different approach to team building to blow this entire thing up and do this the right way. If I have to wait another 3-5 years, so be it. I'd rather know we're building towards something like the Braves did. I can't deal with these shitty lost seasons where we're not actually moving towards anything better. We're just spinning our fucking wheels and I'm tired of it.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/10/2018 3:16 pm : link
Dan
2:05 Is Peter Alonso this year's Rhys Hoskins? A clunky 1B-type without much defensive value, which allows a monster hitter to go under the radar. How long can the Mets keep him down if he keeps this offensive production up?

Kiley McDaniel
2:07 We can't rule that out, but I would hesitate to anoint a new Rhys Hoskins every year because if there's one every year it's not a thing with a name anymore. That said, Alonso has already outhit amateur projections and we have him somewhere in the area of 50 hit, 60-65 game power right now, so it's looking like an everyday player, there's just no margin for error with the offense since the speed/defense/position are marginal
FO  
brunswick : 5/10/2018 6:26 pm : link
is an absolute joke. Where r the positional players in the system? How was anyone comparing Rosario to Gleyber Torres...one is so advanced and the other consistently overmatched. Also, great job so far by Calloway and Eiland. Twould pitching guru's. We have some future. They have to trade DeGrom. I said it last year and it's more obvious now. They need to get 3-4 elite prospects/everyday players back. Time to 'Turn the Page'
.  
arcarsenal : 5/10/2018 6:58 pm : link
Rosario is a nice prospect, no doubt - but I remember a couple of years ago he seemed to be such an untouchable piece and some were saying he could eventually be on par with guys like Correa or Lindor.

It's still so early in his career and it's not fair to write a kid off if he's not a star from day one. But I do think it's fair to wonder what his ceiling really is now. It doesn't look to me like he's got the same elite skills that the top tier SS' have. You see flashes and a guy who can be really good - but I don't think I've seen enough where I'm convinced the player is going to become elite at some point.

Obviously that doesn't mean shit - career arcs are all over the place. Just what I see so far. I thought AR would have more impact even in his first full season.

I also wonder about the Mets ability to develop players and whether or not maybe it's the org that is stifling the progression of certain prospects. Can't rule that out either.
You have to think that having the AAA team in Las Vegas is a big  
PhiPsi125 : 5/10/2018 7:26 pm : link
liability. Itís hard to gauge effectiveness because of the inflated numbers and Iím sure the feel of the ball/game is so much different. But our top prospects just donít produce the same once they go from the minors to the pros. Conforto is the exception but even heís up and down. Really have to think that the Mets have such poor development.

But honestly, this is what you get when the Mets are the second business (hobby) to a huge Dodgers fan that primarily uses the Mets to feed his primary real estate business. Half measures.
RE: .  
spike : 5/10/2018 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13960632 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


I also wonder about the Mets ability to develop players and whether or not maybe it's the org that is stifling the progression of certain prospects. Can't rule that out either.


If Rosario were a Yankee, he would be hitting .300 by now. We suck at developing positional players
Not sure what you guys  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2018 7:28 pm : link
are complaining about, at least we got meaningful May baseball.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/10/2018 7:36 pm : link
Unless I am missing someone, Reyes and Wright were the last truly great position players the Mets developed and brought up. That was 15 years ago.

And sadly, it's incredibly typical for the Mets to STILL be carrying both players and be getting zero production from one, and close to zero from the other.

Not sure where Murphy fits into that - he was an okay player for a long time. He had a scorching half season for us in 2015 and now he's Babe Ruth in Washington (when he's healthy).. but anyway...

I do think Conforto is the goods - he was outstanding last year. But now he's struggling again. And I'm not sure if it's the shoulder or what.. but it's at least marginally worrisome.

The Vegas point is good too - it's almost impossible to get a true read on some of these guys with the inflated numbers there. I can't believe we've had our AAA team in fucking Las Vegas all these years.

But player development seems amiss.

So many prospects are coming up and having immediate impacts. Guys are hitting in year one. They're all over the league.

Meanwhile, most of our heralded prospects wind up bombing out.. guys like Milledge, Fernando, Ike Davis, etc..

Where's our prospect that is going to burst onto the scene and turn heads? Unless Alonso is the next David Ortiz, I don't see where it's coming from. Guys like Desmond Lindsay seem like blown picks that are never going to pan out.

It's depressing.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/10/2018 7:43 pm : link
In comment 13960656 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 13960632 arcarsenal said:


Quote:




I also wonder about the Mets ability to develop players and whether or not maybe it's the org that is stifling the progression of certain prospects. Can't rule that out either.



If Rosario were a Yankee, he would be hitting .300 by now. We suck at developing positional players


The difference between the Yankees and Mets is just so stark. I hate to keep comparing them - but there's just such a massive difference in the way they're run.

They don't even have room for all the hitters there. Clint Frazier would be a huge deal here - we'd be talking about him daily and when he'd be able to get into the lineup, etc. Meanwhile, he's not even a factor there because there's nowhere to play him. They don't need him. He's almost an afterthought - which is crazy. This was one of the best prospects in all of baseball.

I'd take Gleyber Torres over Rosario today.

Their pitching was supposed to be so suspect too, and IIRC, it's like 2nd in the AL right now and also better than ours.

They had like 2 "down" years and they weren't even that bad in those seasons. The postseason wasn't totally out of reach until like early/mid-Sept.

When was the last time we had a prospect come up and do what Aaron Judge is doing? Or what Gary Sanchez did his first year.

Didn't we scoff at trading for Didi when he was in Arizona? He's been arguably the best player in baseball so far this year and is a stud.

They are absolutely loaded and the rebuild happened in the blink of an eye. Meanwhile, the Mets are still out here floundering like a bunch of losers for the billionth year in a row.

I was at the deli getting lunch today and the newspapers tell the whole story...

The Mets are on one cover for batting out of order and losing 2 of 3 to the worst team in the NL while the Yankees are on the other side for winning 17 of 18 after yet another comeback win.
So true  
brunswick : 5/10/2018 9:43 pm : link
And scary thing is this is not going to change for a while.

I am not a real prospect guy but I look regularly on this site hoping that they will have a couple of breakout prospects. You heaRd that they had guys in the lower levels...who? where? Other than Alonso what prospect has the ability to be a difference maker?
Arc, Iím with you man. Everything you said is dead on and exactly  
PhiPsi125 : 5/10/2018 9:54 pm : link
how I feel. Hard not to. Iím just about to end my thirties and all I can say is that my interest is way down. It has been for a couple of years now. My wife got me a gift certificate for Xmas to buy Mets tickets and I really have no desire to, lol.

This team is just a constant embarrassment. They were handed the blueprint for success on a silver platter with this young pitching and young positional players coming up. It was a given that some pitchers wouldnít work but they have the players. This team just never wants to go all the way in. Half measures. Sandy just doesnít know how to build a contending team. That much is evident.

Even 2015 is fools gold. We had to suffer through crappy baseball for nearly an entire season before a historic August (and collapsing Nationals) pushed us to the post season. In other words, EVERYTHING had to go right for 2015 to happen. We end up losing because...you know...itís the Mets. But at least we had the hope that we were building on something. Then what do we do? Let our best and most consistent hitter go to the division rival. Replace him with the same type of player which predictably failed. And Sandy doubled down with players just like the ones that we lost the WS with. We learned nothing from that postseason run. Then injuries happened. Then he brings back the same players we already lost with. Again.

Ugh, Mets fans are in a bad place.
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