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NFT: Yanks talk: Sunday morning...

BC Eagles94 : 5/13/2018 7:43 am
One of Cashman's shrewdest offseason moves was unloading Headley's 13 million this year, without giving up one prospect...but only Bryan Mitchell. Who all us Yanks fans knew was a fringe bullpen prospect at best. At the time I was surprised Cash pulled that off. Getting rid of Headley was HUGE for luxury tax purposes but also for opening up a spot for a better, younger player. And it really was an amazing move when you see how last off season developed. 1 year 13 mill didn't seem that terrible at the time. But when you see the 1 year deals guys like Moustakas (6.5 mill), Walker (4 mill), etc. took...it ends up be a crazy good deal by Cash.

Reason I'm re-hashing this is Headley was DFA'ed by the Padres yesterday. And Mitchell has been moved to bullpen after being one of the worst, and most wild, starters in MLB this year.
Headley was 6-52...ouch  
mfsd : 5/13/2018 7:49 am : link
Always liked him, seemed like a good guy and a professional in the clubhouse...but youíre spot on, brilliant stroke by Cash finding a taker for him
Cash should  
YANKEE28 : 5/13/2018 8:01 am : link
make one more trade with the Padres-get Brad Hand.
Good post  
Tuckrule : 5/13/2018 8:29 am : link
Cash has been money ever since the ells signing
Iím Sure...  
looie : 5/13/2018 8:30 am : link
...that by trading Headley, Cashman also had the Manny Machado possibility in mind in case other options didnít work out.
RE: Cash should  
section125 : 5/13/2018 9:15 am : link
In comment 13962268 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
make one more trade with the Padres-get Brad Hand.


After the Headley trade, do you really think the Padres even answer the phone if Cashman calls? Talk about getting soaked.
Cashman has made many mistakes  
averagejoe : 5/13/2018 9:57 am : link
Ellsbury and Headly contracts are certainly near the top. Ridiculous money for very average players. He must have used the same sorcery on Padres GM that Headley's agent used on him to dump Headley.

Since Cashman decided to go young and cheap he has been on an incredible run. I have never seen a team with this much young talent.
RE: Cashman has made many mistakes  
BC Eagles94 : 5/13/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13962299 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Ellsbury and Headly contracts are certainly near the top. Ridiculous money for very average players. He must have used the same sorcery on Padres GM that Headley's agent used on him to dump Headley.

Since Cashman decided to go young and cheap he has been on an incredible run. I have never seen a team with this much young talent.


Yup, he hasn't been perfect. And the Ellsbury and Headley signings were actually head scratchers at the time they were made. So it isn't like it is a hindsight type thing, which there is always plenty of in sports.

But like you said, Cash has been amazing since focusing on the youth movement. Not sure if it was his idea, ownership, or a combination of both...but Cash has had one of the better 4 year stretches a GM can have.
RE: RE: Cashman has made many mistakes  
section125 : 5/13/2018 10:24 am : link
In comment 13962308 BC Eagles94 said:
Quote:
In comment 13962299 averagejoe said:


Quote:


Ellsbury and Headly contracts are certainly near the top. Ridiculous money for very average players. He must have used the same sorcery on Padres GM that Headley's agent used on him to dump Headley.

Since Cashman decided to go young and cheap he has been on an incredible run. I have never seen a team with this much young talent.



Yup, he hasn't been perfect. And the Ellsbury and Headley signings were actually head scratchers at the time they were made. So it isn't like it is a hindsight type thing, which there is always plenty of in sports.

But like you said, Cash has been amazing since focusing on the youth movement. Not sure if it was his idea, ownership, or a combination of both...but Cash has had one of the better 4 year stretches a GM can have.


Can't compare the Headley and Ellsbury contracts. Headley's was actually reasonable for a starting 3rd baseman. It was a year too long. But $13 mill wasn't awful.

But WTF was he thinking on Ellsbury? That was just so ridiculously bad, and trying to make up for Cano leaving (for that money it was smart to let him go) was just a bad thought process. It was so bad you have to wonder if there was outside influence from above.
RE: Cash should  
Dave in PA : 5/13/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13962268 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
make one more trade with the Padres-get Brad Hand.
Iíd be very surprised if the Astros donít end up with Hand at the deadline
RE: RE: RE: Cashman has made many mistakes  
Jim in Tampa : 5/13/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 13962313 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13962308 BC Eagles94 said:


Quote:


In comment 13962299 averagejoe said:


Quote:


Ellsbury and Headly contracts are certainly near the top. Ridiculous money for very average players. He must have used the same sorcery on Padres GM that Headley's agent used on him to dump Headley.

Since Cashman decided to go young and cheap he has been on an incredible run. I have never seen a team with this much young talent.



Yup, he hasn't been perfect. And the Ellsbury and Headley signings were actually head scratchers at the time they were made. So it isn't like it is a hindsight type thing, which there is always plenty of in sports.

But like you said, Cash has been amazing since focusing on the youth movement. Not sure if it was his idea, ownership, or a combination of both...but Cash has had one of the better 4 year stretches a GM can have.



Can't compare the Headley and Ellsbury contracts. Headley's was actually reasonable for a starting 3rd baseman. It was a year too long. But $13 mill wasn't awful.

But WTF was he thinking on Ellsbury? That was just so ridiculously bad, and trying to make up for Cano leaving (for that money it was smart to let him go) was just a bad thought process. It was so bad you have to wonder if there was outside influence from above.


Wasn't Ellsbury signed by little Stein, over Cash's objection...or am I miss-remembering that signing?
section125  
MadPlaid : 5/13/2018 10:54 am : link
Your last point is very interesting. Perhaps it was an outside influence who pressured Cashman to sign Ellsbury to that ill advised contact? Maybe someone like Levine? Cash is getting heat to sign Ellsbury after Cano leaves, even though he knows it is not a good move. So, to secure more influence and prove his way is the right way, he lets them persuade him to do it because he knows it going to fail. Heís tephlon because he can always fall back on, it was your idea, I told you it was not a good move.

That makes a lot of sense considering since then, we havenít heard much from anyone else on what the Yankees should do. It Cashmanís way and only his way.
Re: Ellsbury  
mfsd : 5/13/2018 11:41 am : link
Hal has often repeated the mantra that when money is coming off the books, they will reinvest it in the product on the field

Which is a double edged sword - on one hand, itís great heís carried his fatherís willingness to spend money on the team...but it is also inherently foolish - spending money just to spend money, to make a splash and garner headlines led to several bad contracts. It also helped keep the stadium full for years, which is part of the calculus for the Yanks...it took a while for Cash to convince Hal the free agent market was no longer a good way to keep the team competitive.

After all, years of revenue sharing means a lot of mid market clubs finally had the money to pay to keep their home grown stars, so the Yanks couldnít count on such guys hitting the market consistently

Point being, after 2013 Cano, Granderson and Pettitte came off the books, which equaled about $42 million in salary. In 2014, we added Ellsbury and McCann for about $40 million

We also then signed Tanaka that offseason, if memory serves the Yanks claimed they wanted to get under the luxury tax that year, but thought Tanaka too good to pass up

In sum, I think signing Ellsbury was the last bad deal that came from the often foolish plan to replace salary with salary. They seem to have finally learned their lesson

RE: Re: Ellsbury  
DennyInDenville : 5/13/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 13962347 mfsd said:
Quote:
Hal has often repeated the mantra that when money is coming off the books, they will reinvest it in the product on the field

Which is a double edged sword - on one hand, itís great heís carried his fatherís willingness to spend money on the team...but it is also inherently foolish - spending money just to spend money, to make a splash and garner headlines led to several bad contracts. It also helped keep the stadium full for years, which is part of the calculus for the Yanks...it took a while for Cash to convince Hal the free agent market was no longer a good way to keep the team competitive.

After all, years of revenue sharing means a lot of mid market clubs finally had the money to pay to keep their home grown stars, so the Yanks couldnít count on such guys hitting the market consistently

Point being, after 2013 Cano, Granderson and Pettitte came off the books, which equaled about $42 million in salary. In 2014, we added Ellsbury and McCann for about $40 million

We also then signed Tanaka that offseason, if memory serves the Yanks claimed they wanted to get under the luxury tax that year, but thought Tanaka too good to pass up

In sum, I think signing Ellsbury was the last bad deal that came from the often foolish plan to replace salary with salary. They seem to have finally learned their lesson

Great post , but might be speaking early until we see what happens this offseason. They could realistically spend over a Billion dollars this offseason easily on 4 players if they want to.
Haha yup good point  
mfsd : 5/13/2018 11:58 am : link
Itís become the exception, rather than the norm, that guys like Harper and Machado make it to free agency. At least it seems they have a much better chance of being worth the money than the likes of Ellsbury

The Ellsbury contract  
8TimeChamps : 5/13/2018 12:19 pm : link
contrasts against the huge majority of his other dealings so much, you almost have to assume there were pressures from above to make that move.
Nice article  
YANKEE28 : 5/13/2018 1:32 pm : link
on Scranton RH closer Cody Carroll.
Link - ( New Window )
FYI for those outside NY area this one should get played today  
Stu11 : 5/13/2018 1:48 pm : link
Not supposed to be an all day rain. May have to wait awhile though
Awe, Robinson Cano. He was my favorite player ever since he first  
Jerry "Championship" Reese : 5/13/2018 1:55 pm : link
Started at second base. How amazing it would be if we had Cano on this team, wow. I would rather pay Cano than Stanton.
Ellsbury  
Ron from Ninerland : 5/13/2018 2:06 pm : link
This was obviously a bad deal. The feeling at the time was that they overpaid, but I think I understand what Cashman's thinking was. At the time of the deal, the Yankees were still a playoff team. They were not going anywhere in the playoffs due to exceptionally poor postseason play led by Swisher and Granderson. They had just lost Cano and Jeter was declining. Ellsbury seemed to be capable of most of Cano's offense and he was an outstanding post season performer. I think the feeling was that Ellsbury, although expensive was the guy who could put us over the top.

Again, i'm not defending the deal, but I do remember what the condition of the Yanks were when the deal was made. It wasn't much different than the Giants overspending on defense in 2016 to make one more run while Eli was still here.
RE: FYI for those outside NY area this one should get played today  
Jints in Carolina : 5/13/2018 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13962405 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Not supposed to be an all day rain. May have to wait awhile though


Thank you.
RE: RE: FYI for those outside NY area this one should get played today  
dpinzow : 5/13/2018 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13962428 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
In comment 13962405 Stu11 said:


Quote:


Not supposed to be an all day rain. May have to wait awhile though



Thank you.


Yup, the tarp is coming off the field now and they've set a start time (tentative) of 3:45
on a former Yankee note  
YANKEE28 : 5/13/2018 3:06 pm : link
it appears that Robbie Cano broke his right hand today. No timeframe for how long he will be out.
Clint Frazier is 3-3 with a HR today.  
bceagle05 : 5/13/2018 3:56 pm : link
He's been on fire lately.
2 run single from Stanton, RBI single from Hicks in the 1st  
mfsd : 5/13/2018 4:15 pm : link
3-0 good guys.

On an unrelated note, I think anyone sitting behind home plate who feels compelled to talk on their phone while waving madly to someone watching on TV during game play should be waterboarded.
Good to see Stanton continuing to hit  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/13/2018 4:17 pm : link
and Hicks waking up.
RE: 2 run single from Stanton, RBI single from Hicks in the 1st  
section125 : 5/13/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13962472 mfsd said:
Quote:
3-0 good guys.

On an unrelated note, I think anyone sitting behind home plate who feels compelled to talk on their phone while waving madly to someone watching on TV during game play should be waterboarded.


+1 LMFAO
Stantonís splits so far this year are extreme  
mfsd : 5/13/2018 4:19 pm : link
Heís hitting over .400 with 6 HR in 33 AB against lefties...hitting under .200 against righties.
Sanchez has to get back to being that top offensive talent he  
yatqb : 5/13/2018 4:28 pm : link
typically is. Weird to see him hovering around 200.
RE: Sanchez has to get back to being that top offensive talent he  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/13/2018 4:29 pm : link
In comment 13962480 yatqb said:
Quote:
typically is. Weird to see him hovering around 200.


Yep. We're 6-7 weeks into the season now, too.
Cashman  
PaulN : 5/13/2018 4:42 pm : link
Made the decision to sign both Ellsbury and Beltran to make up for the loss of Cano, that was Cashman, but might as well blame Levine since we all hate him anyway.
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