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NFT: Westworld Season 2 Epi4 (spoilers welcome)

Tony in Tampa : 5/14/2018 7:42 am
What we learned:

• Elsie’s back with her foul mouthed self. It was like she never left.
• The woman who escaped from the Raj turns out to be MiB’s daughter. That was the big reveal at the end but I thought the show had been tipping their hand on this during the episode.
• At least part of the alternate plan for the hosts was extending the lives of humans by transferring their consciousness into a host body but the project was never fully successful. The repeating Jim Delos host scenes were very good.
• Bernard is trying to suppress the evil/killer Bernard side that we saw when Ford activated it last season to kill Theresa. But is his failing memory revealing his true self?
• Thought the scenes in the Mexican town with the Confederale tormenting the town’s people dragged on too long. Not sure where they are going with MiB’s apparent temporary act of remorse/compassion.

Overall, I thought Epi 4 was much better than last week’s episode. Maybe that’s because there was no Deloris this week. Good to have Elsie back on the show.
Good episode  
KevinBBWC : 5/14/2018 8:39 am : link
[quote]• At least part of the alternate plan for the hosts was extending the lives of humans by transferring their consciousness into a host body but the project was never fully successful.[quote]

I'm guessing Ford got it to work.
RE: Good episode  
Tony in Tampa : 5/14/2018 8:46 am : link
In comment 13962788 KevinBBWC said:
Quote:
[quote]• At least part of the alternate plan for the hosts was extending the lives of humans by transferring their consciousness into a host body but the project was never fully successful.[quote]

I'm guessing Ford got it to work.

My question is: Was the immortality project "the secret" of the what WestWorld really is or are they also duplicating guests?
RE: RE: Good episode  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2018 8:51 am : link
In comment 13962797 Tony in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13962788 KevinBBWC said:


Quote:


[quote]• At least part of the alternate plan for the hosts was extending the lives of humans by transferring their consciousness into a host body but the project was never fully successful.[quote]

I'm guessing Ford got it to work.


My question is: Was the immortality project "the secret" of the what WestWorld really is or are they also duplicating guests?


I have a feeling Ford didn't want anything to do with immortality plan.
Also, I think  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2018 8:55 am : link
we will find the following will be revealed eventually. One of the other:

A) Ford figured out how to do what Delos wanted, but kept stalling it himself every chance he got

B) In order to get over the reoccurring glitch, the hosts needed to become sentient.

I also find it interesting that the Hosts are also having the same glitch that Delos appears to have. They get stuck in all of their memories, and don't know what reality is.
yeah, that was my take too  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2018 9:14 am : link
Ford made the proverbial deal with the devil (Delos) to keep the park alive, but was repulsed by what they planned to do with it. Eventually, he decided to destroy it all via his final narrative. What's interesting is that William ended up wanting to do the same thing, but for different reasons.

So is Bernard truly in control of himself now, or is he still operating according to Ford's coding? Is he still the killer he remembered in his flashbacks? Why did Clementine drag him to the cave where he stashed Elsie?
Oh shit I just read something  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2018 9:16 am : link
That makes me think Bernard is actually an Arnold Human/Host hybrid. The glitches he is going through are the plagues Delos goes through.
I've felt a little underwhelmed so far this season  
j_rud : 5/14/2018 9:16 am : link
but thought last night's episode was excellent.
I thought that Bernard might be a hybrid too  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2018 9:18 am : link
But then wouldn't he know that his name is Arnold and not Bernard? Plus, given the circumstances of Arnold's death, and the fact that Ford waited 20 years to create Bernard so there was no one left who knew Arnold personally, how would Ford have captured Arnold's consciousness?
RE: I thought that Bernard might be a hybrid too  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 13962825 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But then wouldn't he know that his name is Arnold and not Bernard? Plus, given the circumstances of Arnold's death, and the fact that Ford waited 20 years to create Bernard so there was no one left who knew Arnold personally, how would Ford have captured Arnold's consciousness?


At the time of Arnold's death, Delo's was able to capture his consciousness. I'm sure ford would have been able to do the same.

Another thing I am thinking about, is that maybe William has figured out what's causing the plateau. They use the park to record exactly how everyone acts, and behaves even when no one is looking, but they do not fear death in the park, because they can't be killed, so they aren't getting a complete picture of the human.

William probably thinks, that making the hosts a real challenge, will actually record his entire thought process. How he reacts to being nearly killed, and when he is actually afraid, etc. Making a complete map of the brain, instead of having that one piece lost.
Sure, Ford would have had the capability  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2018 9:41 am : link
But unless he knew Arnold was about to commit suicide by host, why would he have done that? And I would think he would have had to have Arnold's cooperation to capture his mind in a control unit.
RE: Sure, Ford would have had the capability  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2018 9:45 am : link
In comment 13962854 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But unless he knew Arnold was about to commit suicide by host, why would he have done that? And I would think he would have had to have Arnold's cooperation to capture his mind in a control unit.


Maybe Arnold was all about the Delo's project and Ford wasn't. Seems they disagreed on a few things.
The scene two weeks in the future on the beach  
Giants in 07 : 5/14/2018 9:46 am : link
with the Delos employees finding who we think is Bernard... I don't think that's Bernard. I think that was a host with Arnold's consciousness. Ford figured out how to successfully do what they couldn't with James Delos
Bernard  
Archer : 5/14/2018 11:19 am : link
I think that Bernard must be part of the life extension program.

He is more than a hybrid. He was a human and he was reincarnated in Bernard's body.

There was a point in one of the episodes where Bernard had to be tested for his DNA in order to gain entry into a secure area.
I found it suspicious that he had no problem in passing this test.

It also appears as previously noted that Bernard's breakdown was similar to Jim Deleos's meltdown.

but why didn't he know that he was Arnold before?  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2018 11:21 am : link
.
RE: Good episode  
Matt M. : 5/14/2018 11:30 am : link
In comment 13962788 KevinBBWC said:
Quote:
[quote]• At least part of the alternate plan for the hosts was extending the lives of humans by transferring their consciousness into a host body but the project was never fully successful.[quote]

I'm guessing Ford got it to work.
I haven't seen Ep. 3 and 4 yet, but you mean to say this is turning into a variation of Get Out?
RE: RE: Sure, Ford would have had the capability  
Scyber : 5/14/2018 11:49 am : link
In comment 13962857 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13962854 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But unless he knew Arnold was about to commit suicide by host, why would he have done that? And I would think he would have had to have Arnold's cooperation to capture his mind in a control unit.



Maybe Arnold was all about the Delo's project and Ford wasn't. Seems they disagreed on a few things.



Wasn't Arnold dead before Delos invested in the park? Didn't they say something about them being in financial trouble and one of the partners recently committed suicide?
Someone posted a great timeline  
wigs in nyc : 5/14/2018 2:37 pm : link
which helps to suss thing out a bit. You could probably argue that one or two items might be swapped with the item directly before or after, but I found it helpful.
Westworld updated timeline - ( New Window )
RE: Someone posted a great timeline  
Tony in Tampa : 5/14/2018 4:07 pm : link
In comment 13963421 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
which helps to suss thing out a bit. You could probably argue that one or two items might be swapped with the item directly before or after, but I found it helpful. Westworld updated timeline - ( New Window )

Very interesting, thanks for posting
Bernard is clearly a host  
RobCarpenter : 5/14/2018 10:04 pm : link
They show Ford creating him, by himself, in the first season.

The secret lab was what MiB was doing, perhaps so that he could figure out how to transfer his mind to a host body. And Ford had Bernard destroy the secret lab.

I’m still not sure Elsie was there and not in Bernard’s head.

As to why Clementine dragged Bernard there— Ford’s latent programming.

We all know Bernard is a host,  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/15/2018 7:41 am : link
But is he a host hybrid is the question.
RE: We all know Bernard is a host,  
RobCarpenter : 5/15/2018 8:23 am : link
In comment 13963937 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
But is he a host hybrid is the question.


He’s not. He is 100% Ford’s creation. And Ford didn’t want the human/hybrid combo, which is why he had Bernard destroy the MiB’s project.

Abernathy is the one who has the human/hybrid code, which is why 1. Delos is trying to get him out of the park and 2. The code Bernard sees is the same type of code used for Abernathy.
Abernathy is not a human/host hybrid  
Giants in 07 : 5/15/2018 9:38 am : link
The information that Delos is looking for was downloaded onto him by Sizemore in Season 1.
RE: RE: We all know Bernard is a host,  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/15/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13963977 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13963937 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


But is he a host hybrid is the question.



He’s not. He is 100% Ford’s creation. And Ford didn’t want the human/hybrid combo, which is why he had Bernard destroy the MiB’s project.

Abernathy is the one who has the human/hybrid code, which is why 1. Delos is trying to get him out of the park and 2. The code Bernard sees is the same type of code used for Abernathy.


I don't know how you could say that for sure. I agree its probably the most probable scenario, but until we pull his robot brain out, we won't know for sure.

what did the host indian chief  
Rory : 5/15/2018 11:43 am : link
say to Ashley Stubbs before letting him live? I missed it... Can't figure out why they are letting the humans live.

Where is this story going?
RE: what did the host indian chief  
Tony in Tampa : 5/15/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13964234 Rory said:
Quote:
say to Ashley Stubbs before letting him live? I missed it... Can't figure out why they are letting the humans live.

Where is this story going?


He said: "You live only as long as the last person who remembers you,"
If the hybrid hosts could mean a chance that Ford returns  
Tony in Tampa : 5/15/2018 12:28 pm : link
I would be psyched. If the small ball that Bernard put in his pocket is a copied consciousness or even just the possibility that consciousness can be transferred to host gives hope that, maybe in say S3, Anthony Hopkins could return as Ford would be fantastic.

We already see Ford appearing in code/cyberspace and speaking through other host to MiB. How far of a step would it be to just print him up a body?

I think the loss of Anthony Hopkins hurts the series and my guess is that with the direction they have shown away from the S1 WW the show will not have the same popularity at the end of this season as it did at the end of last season.

Shows like GoT can survive killing off their veteran cast members since they have so many and they have established strong, once secondary characters into stars, but I don't think WW can. And with respect to the work of Jeffrey Wright and Thandie Newton, Sam Harris can't really carry this all by himself.

IMO, shifting timelines to form tricky plot twists can only last so long. You need strong characters and acting.
I think thats the point  
Rory : 5/15/2018 1:20 pm : link
to put more emphasis on the Wright and Harris as the leads.

Dolores going bad like this seems too soon for me, but then again you have to establish some type of villain because everyone else is neither hero nor villain
RE: RE: RE: We all know Bernard is a host,  
RobCarpenter : 5/15/2018 1:26 pm : link
In comment 13964135 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13963977 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 13963937 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


But is he a host hybrid is the question.



He’s not. He is 100% Ford’s creation. And Ford didn’t want the human/hybrid combo, which is why he had Bernard destroy the MiB’s project.

Abernathy is the one who has the human/hybrid code, which is why 1. Delos is trying to get him out of the park and 2. The code Bernard sees is the same type of code used for Abernathy.



I don't know how you could say that for sure. I agree its probably the most probable scenario, but until we pull his robot brain out, we won't know for sure.


Because Bernard being a host/hybrid is totally inconsistent with everything that we've seen from Ford.

As to hopes of an Anthony Hopkins return -- I think that's extremely unlikely.
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