Adam Schefter
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Former first-round pick Ereck Flowers, who has missed the Giants’ off-season program, returned to work and the teams’ training facility today, per source.
A trade is still an option, but for now, the Giants intend to play him at right tackle.
Apparently Flowers has made Giant strides in his ability. It would be the first time in his 4 years that he locked down an NFL player.
No they are probably hoping he shows something in camp so that he starts at RT...
No need to actually see how he performs at RT in camp and in preseason, the Giants need to take action now!
-BBI
He might not be the long term solution, but if Solder went down, who are our starting LT and RT?
People acting here like we have a bevy of talent at both spots. We don't. Bring him in, see how he responds to the new coaches and new position, and take it from there
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probably hoping he shows something in camp so they can trade him for the mid round pick they were apparently seeking during the draft. That seems unlikely. A low round pick is likely the most they can get, and even that isn't a given.
No they are probably hoping he shows something in camp so that he starts at RT...
I know that people have been disappointed in Flowers to date- and for VERY good reasons. To date, he has been a 1st round bust. Hard to take when he was a high pick.
With that said, while we have not really seems the Shurmer/ Shula offense yet, just reading between the lines in the FA they picked up and Hernandez, it LOOKS LIKE they are shifting to an OL philosophy that might benefit Flowers as a RT.
Just looking at the respective strengths and weaknesses of the current group of OL, it looks like the Giants MIGHT be employing a "run the ball to pass it" offensive plan. Not a "ground and pound" offense like Dallas runs, but more of a game plan that is designed to control the ball, use the run to create situations where defenses end up on their heels as opposed to attacking.
Flowers' weakness has been footwork and hand usage. He simply does not have the "dancing bear" feet to handle LT, which is compounded by his poor hand usage. However, if he is part of an OL which focuses on blocks that "move forward" as opposed to "creating a safe pocket"- he MIGHT be more effective. His size alone makes it hard for the smaller ends to attack if he is not forced to cede yardage on every play. This means if he is not drop-stepping and setting up allowing the defender to put moves on him, and is instead the one making the move, that defender will have to "get around" him using hands and being off-balance as opposed to blowing by him at full speed.
Having a RB who is comfortable catching the ball as running it also gives DE/LB pause as they must account for Barkley on every play. Flowers is simply a better OL when he does not have to be technically perfect on each snap. When he has an extra second or two, he can hold his ground even if his feet are not perfectly set or he fails to get both hands on the defender.
I'm NOT saying that Flowers turns into a great or even good RT. However, I think that people might be overlooking how Shurmer appears to be bringing a offensive philosophy that might better fit Flowers' strengths while partially negating his weaknesses.
It might be a one-year band-aid after which Flowers would be let go into FA and find the next RT, but one factor that is often overlooked in the NFL is that good offensive minds understand that the offense won't succeed if the OL is on its heels in pass-protect every play. They need to be moving forward and make teams react to their actions as opposed to the other way around.
Until we see the plan on the field, this is all a guess- but I think that when we see a group of OL who all generally are better moving forward than pass-protecting, you are likely to see an attacking method of OL play, based on the run game- not ground and pound, but getting enough positive yardage on early downs to allow the offense to decide whether to pass or run on later downs and keep the defense guessing.
Who knows what he did all off season?
Another possibility is that the Giants trade Flowers to another team that has a disappointing former early draft pick OL. Perhaps to Cincinnati for either Jake Fisher or Cedric Ogbuehi.
...for our first round draft bust.
I think he'll make a good backup somewhere.
But not here.
You're WRONG or TROLLING. Is that why the new regime already replaced him at LT and said all other positions are up for grabs?
I think Collins has some socks and soap bars ready.
It makes sense for DG and PS to keep an open mind on Flowers esp. now that an agent the Giants have worked with successfully in the past can serve as an intermediary. Flowers and his dad read the signals they way they felt was best, but that dynamic could well have been very insular. Last year was a shit year for many, and it's understandable that a young man could bear it hard, perceiving he's being "told" that he was "responsible" for a lot of it via the Solder signing. It takes some maturity to wrap your head around what it means that the NFL is a business.
Well at least they will receive a 3rd round compensatory pick if he does leave. I am hoping that Wheeler beats him out and solidifies himself as the future at RT for the Giants.
Flowers Triple Whiff Classic - ( New Window )
He was set up to fail. Plus he wasn t the only problem on that line, maybe not even the biggest.
Last year s team was flawed from coaching,personnel and chemistry stand point;
Yet Flowers is the villain on this site.
Let s allow Gettleman and Shurmur decide if he belongs or not.
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probably hoping he shows something in camp so they can trade him for the mid round pick they were apparently seeking during the draft. That seems unlikely. A low round pick is likely the most they can get, and even that isn't a given.
No they are probably hoping he shows something in camp so that he starts at RT...
Absolutely. That's the best outcome that this team can have, given the uncertainty of the RT position. I hope he pans out, so there will be one less position to worry about. It creates further competition also.
Haha I thought the same thing and then he'll get paid too!
He couldn't have done worse if he was blindfolded. Hell, if he just fell down he probably would've done better.
Is to get Rosenhus as his agent. If he plays hard and keeps his nose clean, he can go anywhere he wants (if he's not happy here) and get big money.
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this season, become one of the better ORTs in the league and at 25 will leave for FA
Haha I thought the same thing and then he'll get paid too!
:)
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by faster more agile athletes on the edge, its why he is destined to be an interior lineman but the giants are DELUSIONAL.
You're WRONG or TROLLING. Is that why the new regime already replaced him at LT and said all other positions are up for grabs?
Motherfucker, have you played football? I played at a D1 NCAA level for 2 seasons, started at RT and had to be moved to Guard for specifically the very same issues that Flowers struggles with. IDM if he plays left or right, he cant FUCKING SLIDE! HIS FEET ARE SLOW. He cant play tackle in the NFL, period. I feel like you might work for Rosenhaus PR or something. You are clueless. Watch 5 minutes of film on Flowers, it spells it out on its own. He would be GREAT inside, IMHO!
For Flowers it would be $12,525,000.
I don't think this is likely. Far more likely to me that his career follows that of the Marvin Austins and Damontre Moores of the later Reese years...
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his 5th year option?
For Flowers it would be $12,525,000.
Wow! Thanks Jay
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In comment 13963203 Big Blue '56 said:
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his 5th year option?
For Flowers it would be $12,525,000.
Wow! Thanks Jay
It's guaranteed for injury only.
Sad, but probably true.
This s/b interesting.
I'm assuming that he tore it up at the Turkey Bowl with friends two years in a row.
Pretty embarrassing to get moved to guard so Uncle Leo can get some run, but hey - you never know.
As I can remember you defended Bromley too
2. We probably won't trade for a veteran RT since WR, and defense seem to be a higher priority than RT. So,
are there any FA veteran Tackles out there who are available?
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I'm through defending him, although as long as he's wearing the uniform I'll root for him. Maybe he gets his shit together and becomes a serviceable RT - maybe he doesn't. One thing's for sure, he's not getting anything handed to him this year.
As I can remember you defended Bromley too
I did.
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In comment 13963154 Klaatu said:
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I'm through defending him, although as long as he's wearing the uniform I'll root for him. Maybe he gets his shit together and becomes a serviceable RT - maybe he doesn't. One thing's for sure, he's not getting anything handed to him this year.
As I can remember you defended Bromley too
I did.
Reese really reached for players. His mid round picks were just awful
I still have hope, though. The guy is 24 years old, and ... well, some guys just aren't very mature at that age.
If he can pull it together, it would be a nice story, 6-7 years from now, to be able to say he had a rough start but really had a decent career once things fell into place.
For that reason only, I won't shit on the guy.
All that said, if the Giants cut him (or traded him) tomorrow ...
True stuff whether it was for flowers or this past draft.
Reese really reached for players. His mid round picks were just awful
His mid-round reaches never bothered me as much as some of his early round choices, such as Eli Apple instead of Taylor Decker, Prince Amukamara instead of Anthony Costanzo, Clint Sintim instead of Max Unger, Justin Pugh instead of Tyler Eifert, or David Wilson instead of...take your pick, BBI fave, Cordy Glenn, or my fave, Vinny Curry.
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In comment 13963166 ArcadeSlumlord said:
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by faster more agile athletes on the edge, its why he is destined to be an interior lineman but the giants are DELUSIONAL.
You're WRONG or TROLLING. Is that why the new regime already replaced him at LT and said all other positions are up for grabs?
Motherfucker, have you played football? I played at a D1 NCAA level for 2 seasons, started at RT and had to be moved to Guard for specifically the very same issues that Flowers struggles with. IDM if he plays left or right, he cant FUCKING SLIDE! HIS FEET ARE SLOW. He cant play tackle in the NFL, period. I feel like you might work for Rosenhaus PR or something. You are clueless. Watch 5 minutes of film on Flowers, it spells it out on its own. He would be GREAT inside, IMHO!
That escalated quickly.
I'm asking this literally ... what evidence is there to be able to say this?
As I posted earlier, he's 24 years old. I have to think that a fair number of O-linemen have started to "get it" and be serviceable players as they got to their mid-20s.
I'm not saying he'll be a 24-year-old Kareem McKenzie. But if he was 7/10s of that kind of player at RT, that might not be so bad for the next 6-7 seasons with Barkley back there.
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Should have started out at Right Tackle, now at this point he will stink there also, as he has stunk at left tackle, playing only to justify the pick for the great Jerry Reese. Probably the biggest reason McAdoo got the head coaching job, because he was going to go along with everything Reese wanted, only problem was that it lead to the Giants sucking. But he got one more good season when he went out and spent about 100,000,000 million dollars to fix the defense since he sucked at drafting. We all hope the light goes on for Flowers, but moving him to a different position at this point when he never mastered his original position just seems like a useless move.
I do wonder what would have happened had Beatty not gotten injured.
Seems like we wonder this far more often than we should have to.
Can they find a Center who can beat out Jones?
Will the backups come from the under 25s or the over 30s?
That is just pathetic.
He might be ok at RT with a shorter split/TE help. This would allow him to get his hands on defenders easier. Ultimately I don’t think Flowers makes or breaks the season — Shurmur seems to like the guys behind him. Would definitely be a good thing though if he earns the job and plays well.
There is zero downside to having Flowers in the mix competing.
Even if they picked it up, that 5th year has no guarantee, could have picked it up and then still cut him and saved the whole thing. San Diego did this with Fluker, they picked up the 5th year option and gave him year 4 to see if he would be worth it and they thought he wasn’t and cut him right before the 5th year without any harm.. guess DG and company think there isn’t enough he could do in this season to warrant that dough no matter what
Jimmy Googs : 12:26 pm : link : reply
He was wearing the wrong number!
The only reason the Giants let him in is to see if they can somehow generate interest to move him for some kind of draft pick
IMO
The only reason the Giants let him in is to see if they can somehow generate interest to move him for some kind of draft pick
IMO
Did you think the Giants were not going to let a player they have under contract enter the building? The NFLPA might have had something to say about that.
You know the saying... fool me once...
At this point I'd have to believe Giants fans everywhere will be taking a "I'll believe it when I see it" approach to Flowers being a positive contributing factor to this team and locker room.
Recall plenty of BBI quotes regarding his "quicker feet, better hand placement, developing a punch, didn't give up a sack for X games in a row, he's not the problem on the line this year..."
What a crock of shit...
He has been , like many of Reese's selections absolutely awful. No one except Reese and marc Ross seemed to like him in the first round. Maybe at 24 and at RT instead of LT and in a contract year the light goes on. Lets hope.
Now I'm saying 'don't give up on him altogether' either. He might have a decent year at ort
- and would it not be a frigging kick if he kicked ass at it?
Maybe it's a whole different technique in play with the new staff. Different line philosophy, general improvement in his balance, who knows?
Having Fluker or Hart playing wasn't optimal. Hart stunk and Fluker played at the same level he has throughout his career and a lot of people acted like he was a stud.
Kiper and Riddick on Flowers (ESPN 2015 Draft Day Coverage) - ( New Window )
Sometimes it's as simple as:
"Do I have to go?"
"No, it's voluntary."
"Then I'll skip this minicamp, thanks."
***
"Do I have to go this time?"
"Yes, it's mandatory.
"See you Monday."
Flowers' issues are real but maybe best not to get too worked up about a guy not attending a voluntary camp.
Without question, Flowers needs a new position to compete for on the Oline to see if he can just stay in the NFL. The trials and tribulations of the past several years with him at LT have hurt the productivity of our QB, our offense and the team. We can only hope the new coaches can develop a serviceable player out of this disappointing top 10 pick.
Its fairly easy decision for the Giants to give him a chance this summer at Right Tackle. Especially since nobody wanted to touch this clown via a trade offer, and because we have an opening for either a starter and/or a backup Tackle.
Quite simply, if he can't lock down a spot playing Tackle for this particular team...he's hopeless.
That's gotta be the ultimate kick in the balls if you're a GM, Mel f'ing Kiper showing you up with his masterful scouting.
What really was going through the minds of Reese and company.
1) we have a top 10 pick teams often use on a franchise LT
2) Erieck Flowers has a prototype LT body
3) ???
4) PROFIT!!!
Gman11 : 7:31 am : link : reply
At this point in time, who is the going to play LT if Solder gets injured?
There is no depth in the OL, DL, defensive backfield, WR position, etc.
A few key injuries and this season will go south again.....
GMing pro-tip: don't ever draft someone in the top 10 that can be described as "raw".
Which in hindsight means clumsy and stiff.
[quote] 1. Our CURRENT roster does not seem to have a better alternative for RT.
2. We probably won't trade for a veteran RT since WR, and defense seem to be a higher priority than RT. So,
Well we did just lose bisnowaty who i thought may be an equal replacement. I honestly feel WR is not a problem. We lack depth yes but how many teams really have depth at WR. Too many WR roster spots just take away from other areas. Sure when its 90 man its fine but when roster is cut no need to have giants hold onto 8 WRs. Cleary retired other day so we lost 2 OL. Need to focus on that so we can make holes for saquan.
Gman11 : 7:31 am : link : reply
At this point in time, who is the going to play LT if Solder gets injured?
There is no depth in the OL, DL, defensive backfield, WR position, etc.
A few key injuries and this season will go south again.....
I would think that if Solder get injured they would move Flowers back to LT and put Wheeler or whoever else they have at RT. So, if Flowers is all ticked off about being replaced at LT he should be aware that going back there is only an injury away. With the proliferation of injuries in this sport the chance of it happening are pretty good.
So, what I'm saying is Flowers isn't doing himself any favors by his little "holdout." He could be back at LT by the first game. Why he would get all pissy about moving to RT shows a lack of smarts.
He should have "improved" at LT sooner than last season given where he was drafted. Then the new Giants management wouldn't have sunk so much FA money at LT.
Recall plenty of BBI quotes regarding his "quicker feet, better hand placement, developing a punch, didn't give up a sack for X games in a row, he's not the problem on the line this year..."
What a crock of shit...
It wasn't a "crock of shit", but thanks for the in-depth analysis.
For a stretch during the middle of the year Flowers showed a bit of improvement before regressing late in the year.
Some of the posters here that understand what they are watching noticed the improvement at the time. I think those comments are what you are referring to, but you appear to be exaggerating.
We need to make everything black and white, one extreme or the other right? If someone remarks that Flowers sucks less it means we think he's great right?
Btw, don't put quotes around things that aren't actually quotes.
I will just follow your lead on future posts about players to help me understand who is good and who is not.
"Ok?"...