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Flowers No sacks 14 game/ success born from adversity

Elite Mobster #32 : 5/14/2018 10:44 pm
What do you guys think about Flowers improvement? It looks like he is improving. I think he deserves credit for playing more consistent, based on his performance last year. He was durable and I don't recall him missing a play or being laid out on the field with an injury.

Surprisingly, he was the most consistent Lineman. Last year he demonstrated better leverage technique on the outside, didn't allow anyone to get inside of him. He even served up a couple of pancakes.

Most people have a long memory when it comes to Flowers for some reason. He did not get Eli killed last year.

The criticism and inconsistency was justified, when he was a 20 year rookie. He is now a starter with 3 seasons as a starter going into his 4th.

This off season, he retained a new agent, the Giants recognize Flowers numbers last season. If he duplicates that production, and he seems confident he can, he could suddenly be considered a superior Elite tackle in the NFL.

I'm waiting for some one like Anakim to retrieve his statistics from 2017.

The guy hasn't allowed a sack in 14 games, He is not the worst in the league. I pulling for him to become one of the best.


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HE  
Jon in NYC : 5/14/2018 10:46 pm : link
HAS RAISED THE ANAK SIGNAL
I am pulling for him  
dep026 : 5/14/2018 10:52 pm : link
to be average.
It really doesn't matter what you or I think.  
Klaatu : 5/14/2018 10:59 pm : link
What matters is what the Giants think, and so far they've signed a high-priced free agent to replace him at LT, then they did not pick up his 5th-year option. What does that tell you?
Wheeler has the upside of a very, very good pass blocking OT  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/14/2018 11:03 pm : link
He flashed quite a bit as an underweight rookie at the harder LT position.

Flowers will have to really impress or Wheeler really underwhelm for Flowers to get it over him IMO.
You mean FMIC  
Anakim : 5/14/2018 11:08 pm : link
But this is actually true: "Surprisingly, he was the most consistent Lineman."


Yeah, he was the most consistent...consistent at being horrible. Consistent at having Edge rushers beat him. Bobby Hart gave him a good run for his money, though!
As the greatest O-Line evaluator Duke Manyweather said  
Anakim : 5/14/2018 11:10 pm : link
Duke Manyweather

Verified account

@BigDuke50

Duke Manyweather Retweeted Patricia Traina
#ThankEli
Maybe not greatest  
Anakim : 5/14/2018 11:10 pm : link
Great
Pull up the statistics  
Elite Mobster #32 : 5/14/2018 11:18 pm : link
14 games no sacks
like not needing to run faster than a Bear  
jcp56 : 5/14/2018 11:28 pm : link
just faster than someone else being chased by the bear, I wonder if the lack of sacks given up by Flowers was a function of Bobby Hart playing right tackle. That is, if the other tackle really sucks, you likely won't give up many sacks even if you aren't too good (because the DE playing over Hart will get to Eli first).
this is not accurate...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/14/2018 11:31 pm : link
He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.
fair enough Eric as the team was 3-13 I could be informed but  
Elite Mobster #32 : 5/14/2018 11:48 pm : link
Flowers has not allowed a personal sack from his Left tackle position in 14 games right?
or Misinformed  
Elite Mobster #32 : 5/14/2018 11:57 pm : link
until someone provides the official statistics, this was what was reported. I do agree Flowers struggled. This is football!
However if he didn't give up a sack in 14 games, he should be credited as an improved player. Hopefully he can continue to improve.
His level of play is almost beside the point right now  
BlackLight : 5/15/2018 12:38 am : link
It spoke volumes that he skipped the team's first minicamp. The first time the whole team gathers to work with each other and the new coaches, and he's M.I.A.
"He did not get Eli killed last year. "  
short lease : 5/15/2018 12:45 am : link

That's is the best compliment you can come up with ...? He has got a lot of work to do - if that is your bottom line assessment.
Solder  
Dragon : 5/15/2018 1:20 am : link
Time has come every LT has looked bad protecting Eli lets see what the highest paid LT in the NFL can do?
He didn't  
myquealer : 5/15/2018 1:35 am : link
give up a sack because Eli was playing scared and getting rid of the ball before defenders could get to him regardless of the blocking.
.  
huygens20 : 5/15/2018 2:06 am : link
Right side, left side


Doesnt matter.


Best pass rushers in the league mack, houston, von etc. play all over the line and get the matchup they want because tha'ts how the defenses are designed.

If Flowers is the weakest tackle, that's where mack, watt, von will line up against.
Plus his run blocking stunk  
phil in arizona : 5/15/2018 2:34 am : link
.
He can still be the starting LT  
JohnB : 5/15/2018 4:36 am : link
But now he has someone breathing down his back to take over his position. Gettleman's job is to make the Giants a better team and he is doing that.

Let the best man win! Flowers or Solder or anyone else out there. Let's make the Giants a better team because 3-13 isn't getting the job done.
RE: He can still be the starting LT  
Big Rick in FL : 5/15/2018 6:45 am : link
In comment 13963905 JohnB said:
Quote:
But now he has someone breathing down his back to take over his position. Gettleman's job is to make the Giants a better team and he is doing that.

Let the best man win! Flowers or Solder or anyone else out there. Let's make the Giants a better team because 3-13 isn't getting the job done.


No there is no chance he could be the starting LT. None.
RE: He can still be the starting LT  
Giantology : 5/15/2018 6:53 am : link
In comment 13963905 JohnB said:
Quote:
But now he has someone breathing down his back to take over his position. Gettleman's job is to make the Giants a better team and he is doing that.

Let the best man win! Flowers or Solder or anyone else out there. Let's make the Giants a better team because 3-13 isn't getting the job done.


Thats the thing John, it does not look that way because the team publicly announced they are moving him. Which led to him being even more immature and not coming to voluntary OTAs. The chances are slim and would likely mean something awful happened to Solder, who is certainly being paid to be our LT.
LOL, only on BBI  
ZogZerg : 5/15/2018 6:54 am : link
Flowers is great!

We will be lucky if he turns into a serviceable RT or Backup swing tackle.
According to FOX Sports  
BigK : 5/15/2018 7:07 am : link
He gave up 6 sacks last year
Lonk - ( New Window )
Eric  
bc4life : 5/15/2018 7:44 am : link
You could see the difference in play. Pretty good in some stretches, embarrassingly bad in others. I'm hopeful they can build on the good parts.
He worked hard last off season  
bc4life : 5/15/2018 7:48 am : link
Sometimes it's a case of working smarter, not harder. That is, being in the weight room, agility drills versus working on the position specific skills needed, particularly the weaknesses. I was watching a Diehl eval of his play - one issue was finishing plays - playing up to (maybe a little after) the whistle. They showed several plays where his play wasn't too bad but he stopped when he thought play was done, not when play was over. Has also shown some problems getting hands and feet working together - wonder if he has an issue w/coordination?
Six sacks...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/15/2018 7:48 am : link
or none. Who is to hair split?

Flowers is mauler serving pancakes and sausages and not only did not sack let in last year, he was dominant the year entire. Show me stats otherwise!!

Problem one is Eli who keeps getting his receivers MANNINGED by high throws, terribly bad knowing that Flowers has walled off 6 defenders per play from the pockets.

You might say zero, but I say 6.

Run I will with the zeros sacks totals because it sounds much better than 6. Six is for eggs cartons, not slab of beef like Erickkk.He showed not up for camp because he was visiting honors societies to get awards for allowing zero sacks, while Eli throws way down in North Carolina and kept hitting Duke scoreboard, angers Coach Krystiociakakamdhged very much. MANNINGED Cameron Indoor!

I'm going to just make up zero until somebody shows me it isn't. Then you can find me in Latvian cafe at internet terminal.
What?  
Doomster : 5/15/2018 7:49 am : link
He can still be the starting LT
JohnB : 4:36 am : link : reply
But now he has someone breathing down his back to take over his position. Gettleman's job is to make the Giants a better team and he is doing that.


They have moved on from Flowers, as far as being a LT.....for a guy who is so big and "supposedly" mean, he is a candy ass in pass blocking.....the guy back peddles from the get go....I have never seen him attack a rusher and stop him dead in his tracks, in pass protection....and in the running game he was just as bad.....

The only reason he is still on this team is, we have question marks on the right side......they are hoping that he can play better at RG/RT.....and also, the fact that he has guaranteed money this year.....if he didn't, and he pulled the crap he just did, no doubt in my mind, he would have been cut....

Fact is, he is probably going to be an expensive, one year rental as a backup......because if he performs well as a RT, this is all on Reese, Mac, and especially Solari.....there is still a chance he might be a starter, and suck, if we have no one else......I am not convinced that Wheeler is the guy....

But if he does play RT, and he still has problems, I think Shurm has the sense, something Mac did not have, to put a TE on his side and help him with a chip block....
If you want to defend him that's fine  
GiantsRage2007 : 5/15/2018 7:53 am : link
But cherry picking stats only gets you so far in that defense before reality sets in...

Add in the holds (which are as good as a sack) and the dozens and dozens of broken plays that went for a loss or no gain or Eli had to run for his life, etc, etc...

He doesn't pass the eye test. Look at it objectively. Then compare him to other LT in the league.

None of us want to Giants to fail, putting him back out there is a step in that direction - it's hard to argue otherwise.

As for being the best of the bunch last year? A saying comes to mind... 'in the land of the blind, the one eye man is king".
LOL!  
dorgan : 5/15/2018 8:02 am : link
at the Fatman! You've gotten so good at that spiel that I can't tell if it's Peggy or memorex.
RE: He can still be the starting LT  
Klaatu : 5/15/2018 8:06 am : link
In comment 13963905 JohnB said:
Quote:
But now he has someone breathing down his back to take over his position. Gettleman's job is to make the Giants a better team and he is doing that.

Let the best man win! Flowers or Solder or anyone else out there. Let's make the Giants a better team because 3-13 isn't getting the job done.


Yeah...the Giants made Nate Solder the highest-paid offensive lineman in the league just so he could compete with Ereck Flowers.

Un-fucking-real.
Now I will admit that Im not the biggest PFF fan but here u go  
map7711 : 5/15/2018 8:16 am : link
Ereck Flowers showed a small improvement and put together the best season of his career. Although, admittedly, the bar was not set high and this performance earned Flowers just the 54th-highest grade among offensive tackles.

53 tackles graded better. 53!!! For a first round number 9 pick in his 3rd year. How can anyone defend this guys performance? Now heres to hoping he turns it around and plays a decent RT because we need it.
So much verbiage...  
M.S. : 5/15/2018 8:22 am : link

...devoted to an also-ran player who'll be out of the league in 2 to 3 years.


Flowers improved last year  
est1986 : 5/15/2018 8:23 am : link
He went from dog shit to shit... hopefully he can go from shit to decency this year... but in all seriousness Flowers played very well for a long stretch in the middle of the season, not just a few games, Im talking like 8-10 weeks, facing some very good pass rushers. He struggled badly with Ziggy Ansah and he helped Demarcus Lawrence get paid in his two battles against him, but he definitely showed glimpses of being a really good (not elite) tackle. Yes Eli getting the ball out faster than any other QB absolutely helped but this guy is still a kid, he just turned 24 years old a day or two before the draft and he has three years of experience at starting left tackle. Still holding out hope that it will all click all of a sudden with him, but that hope is getting thinner each year, If last year wasnt make or break for this kid, this year will 100% be his career defying year, wether he plays well and sticks going forward or flames out and is out of the league next year, this year will tell it all.
Flowers  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:27 am : link
Was not good last year. The not allowing a sack in 14 games stat is bullshit, because not allowing a sack doesnt mean he wasnt allowing guys to constantly pressure Eli leading to Eli having to throw it away, check down before guys routes could develop, or taking hits after releasing the ball. Id rather have a guy that gives up an occasional sack, but keeps pressure off of Eli more often than not.
Fairly sure Eli Manning is one of the league leaders in  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 8:27 am : link
getting the ball out asap.

Flowers no-sack streak is folly...
If Flowers is the 54th best OT in the NFL there must be worse Tackles.  
Marty in Albany : 5/15/2018 8:27 am : link
Are they on the Giants?
Flowers  
Archer : 5/15/2018 8:28 am : link
Flowers weakness is with speed rushers.
He loses leverage and resorts to grabbing.

I always thought that he could be a very good guard.
He has been a good run blocker, he has the athletic ability to pull and get to the second level.

Pass blocking will be much easier for him as a guard. He will not be dealing with speed rushers and he has help on both sides.

I would like to see him at right guard with Wheeler at tackle.
RE: Fairly sure Eli Manning is one of the league leaders in  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:31 am : link
In comment 13963982 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
getting the ball out asap.

Flowers no-sack streak is folly...


You are correct, at one point last season I remember reading that Eli was releasing the ball faster than any QB in the NFL.
Flowers has fatal flaws... not weaknesses  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 8:32 am : link
He fails to get his hands on opponents quickly enough.

He fails to keep his feet moving when finally engaging.

He fails to sustain leverage and dips his shoulders/head into oncoming rusher.

Generally, he fails...
I wish I had the link  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:35 am : link
but Traina did a nice film breakdown of Flowers last year that showed some of the key technique issues that have followed Flowers from college to the pros. One of the biggest issues is when the ball is snapped he inexplicably drops his arms to his sides and then flings his left arm out to try to catch the edge rusher which is not only ineffective, but can lead to a serious arm/shoulder injury for Flowers as the defender whips his arm back.
Seems like a good time to post this again  
BlueHurricane : 5/15/2018 8:37 am : link
.
BUST - ( New Window )
RE: this is not accurate...  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/15/2018 8:38 am : link
In comment 13963873 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.


He was hurt the last game of the season, not benched.
RE: Seems like a good time to post this again  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:43 am : link
In comment 13963996 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
. BUST - ( New Window )


Lol, thanks for that. He lifted Flowers off the ground like a small child
RE: RE: this is not accurate...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 8:47 am : link
In comment 13963999 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13963873 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.



He was hurt the last game of the season, not benched.


Yeah "hurt"...that's what his gynecologist indicated
RE: RE: this is not accurate...  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2018 8:49 am : link
In comment 13963999 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13963873 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


He started off the season terribly. He settled down during a long stretch during the middle of the season. But then he fell apart again at the end. He was benched in the last game.



He was hurt the last game of the season, not benched.


I wonder if he will miss week one because Gettleman hurt his feelings by signing a real offensive tackle in Solder.
RE: RE: Fairly sure Eli Manning is one of the league leaders in  
Bill in UT : 5/15/2018 8:59 am : link
In comment 13963989 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 13963982 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


getting the ball out asap.

Flowers no-sack streak is folly...



You are correct, at one point last season I remember reading that Eli was releasing the ball faster than any QB in the NFL.


Eli was in such a rush, he had Jones throwing the ball downfield
Will he even make the team?  
trueblueinpw : 5/15/2018 9:01 am : link
I know he has another year on his rookie contract and the cap hit is unavoidable but if hes got a bad attitude in the locker room and hes fucking up on the field, will the new regime even want to keep him around?
He  
AcidTest : 5/15/2018 9:17 am : link
plays hard and though injury. I don't question his toughness. But he just doesn't have the feet to play tackle in the NFL. As someone said, shifting him to RT might not be a viable option because teams move their pass rushers around. It's easy for a team to put its best pass rusher on Flowers. I also thought he got away with a lot of holding last year that wasn't called.

Moving him to guard may not be the answer either. DG commented that many players can't make that transition because it's an entirely different game inside. I think the Giants tried to move Bisnowaty from tackle to guard, and then cut him when they realized it wasn't going to work. We also have a lot of guards.

He's likely the backup to Wheeler this year. But if he's traded or cut, I assume we'll pick up a veteran RT after final cuts. We have the #2 waiver wire claim.
14 games, no sacks  
BillyM : 5/15/2018 9:41 am : link
He did improve, however, that is a bit misleading as I am sure Eli threw the ball into the ground on at least 5 different instances, minimum. Maybe 10 times.

If Eli was a scrambling QB, or younger, he stays in those plays and probably gets sacked 60-70% of the time.

I am rooting for the kid though.
I only opened this thread  
Mike from Ohio : 5/15/2018 9:44 am : link
to see FMIC's response. He is writer of utmost EXCELLENCE who laugh pulls from stoic belly on Tuesdays.
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