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Kay Adams: "Giants over-hyping Saquon Barkley"

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/15/2018 12:19 pm
I'm paraphrasing, but she raised an interesting point that I think some folks on BBI have mentioned. She thinks the Giants are doing a disservice to Barkley and the team by over-hyping Barkley. My guess is she was mostly talking about Gettleman's comments, but it raises an interesting question.

Would a 1,200 yard rookie season be a disappointment for most fans? How about 10 touchdowns?

What is YOUR expectation level with Barkley.
1,200 yards rushing  
ryanmkeane : 5/15/2018 12:21 pm : link
and 10 touchdowns as a rookie? That would be pro bowl level, not a let down. Add in the catches and other yards...
1200/10 would be a terrific start  
JonC : 5/15/2018 12:21 pm : link
but I do think he's more talented then Elliott, Fournette, Gurley, etc.
Somewhere around  
dep026 : 5/15/2018 12:21 pm : link
11-1200 yards rushing
60 catches for 550 yards
12 TDs
My expectation is...  
ryanmkeane : 5/15/2018 12:22 pm : link
250 carries, 1300 yards, 9 rushing TD

65 catches for 500 yards, 2 TD
Are the 1200 yards total yards from scrimmage?  
NorwoodWideRight : 5/15/2018 12:23 pm : link
If so, I'd say yes, absolutely that would be a disappointment.

I think Barkley is going to rack up a lot of yards in the passing game. It's this versatility that makes him an immense prospect for the Giants, IMO.

If he gets 1,200 on the ground and another 500-700 in the passing game, I'd be more than satisfied.
I agree  
jcn56 : 5/15/2018 12:23 pm : link
not that I don't expect Barkley to do well - but I think they hyped him up to almost unattainable expectations.

Best prospect since Peyton Manning?

Kind of unfair to the kid.
RE: 1200/10 would be a terrific start  
barens : 5/15/2018 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13964283 JonC said:
Quote:
but I do think he's more talented then Elliott, Fournette, Gurley, etc.


Disagree with you about Elliott, who was also called a once in a generation running back. If he's on par with Elliott(minus the off the field), that would be spectacular.
Well, when you prattle on with that "touched by the hand of God"  
Greg from LI : 5/15/2018 12:24 pm : link
nonsense that Gettleman was dishing out, a 1200 yard season looks pretty ordinary.
You had me at Kay Adams  
Danny Kanell : 5/15/2018 12:24 pm : link
I'm looking for Marshall Faulk type production  
PatchoguePete : 5/15/2018 12:24 pm : link
1300 yards rushing, 800 yards receiving. 15-20 combined TDs
I would expect much more than that  
Bill L : 5/15/2018 12:25 pm : link
since we play out doors on an artificial field and should get some games with lots of torrential rain. Since he's the only player who can run on water, he'll accumulate ridiculous yardage.
I think he'll be  
Phil in LA : 5/15/2018 12:27 pm : link
historically good right off the bat, like OBJ was.
I didn't know Michael Corleone's wife was a football scout.  
Victor in CT : 5/15/2018 12:28 pm : link
...............
BBI gutcheck  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2018 12:29 pm : link
who actually cares or pays attention to "hype"? I never understood this phenomenon, whether it be sports, movies, etc.

If Barkley fails I won't bitch and moan about the "hype train". I'll be disappointed the #2 overall pick wasn't good.
.  
fanofthejets : 5/15/2018 12:30 pm : link
Barkley is very talented. I wouldn't put him above Gurley or pre injury Dalvin Cook though. Cook was on his way to being incredible though. We'll see how he recovers
Greg  
ryanmkeane : 5/15/2018 12:30 pm : link
are you still going to hate Barkley now that he's a Giant?
RE: RE: 1200/10 would be a terrific start  
JonC : 5/15/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13964292 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 13964283 JonC said:


Quote:


but I do think he's more talented then Elliott, Fournette, Gurley, etc.



Disagree with you about Elliott, who was also called a once in a generation running back. If he's on par with Elliott(minus the off the field), that would be spectacular.


Elliott is a very good pro tailback, a throwback of sorts. But, he lacks the explosion, change of direction, and top gear s SB has.
Based upon the photo above, she can . . . .  
TC : 5/15/2018 12:32 pm : link
say anything she wants!

But think about it: the Giants draft the #2 pick, all the writers ask constantly about him, so the Giants say, yeah, they like him a lot and think he's going to be good. So then they're over-hyping him. I think that's a bunch of crap.

The NFL will knock the "new" off Barkley quickly enough, but I think he's got enough mental fortitude to weather through it and make his presence known. It's only the fans who may be disappointed by their own unrealistic expectations.
and, I think SB has better hands  
JonC : 5/15/2018 12:32 pm : link
and will prove to be more versatile in the passing attack.
RE: BBI gutcheck  
DanMetroMan : 5/15/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13964304 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
who actually cares or pays attention to "hype"? I never understood this phenomenon, whether it be sports, movies, etc.

If Barkley fails I won't bitch and moan about the "hype train". I'll be disappointed the #2 overall pick wasn't good.


I think the more valid question is if the Giants might be doing him a disservice focusing on him so much. It's a lot of pressure and if he's merely a top 10 back it might cause some idiots to knock him. I guess on the field concern would be him trying to do too much.
RE: I'm looking for Marshall Faulk type production  
njm : 5/15/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13964295 PatchoguePete said:
Quote:
1300 yards rushing, 800 yards receiving. 15-20 combined TDs


Faulk's rookie year he rushed 314 times for 1282 yds. and caught 52 passes for 522 yds. I don't expect him to get 314 carries, so 1100 rushing and 522 passing would be just fine with me.
I don't care about hype  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/15/2018 12:35 pm : link
and I don't care about cumulative stats. Just make a positive impact, and contribute to wins and be part of what turns this thing around.

The rest is just fodder for talking heads
800-900 yds and 500 yds receiving  
Alex_Webster : 5/15/2018 12:36 pm : link
would be benchmark. Anything less they will call him a bust. 1100-1300 yds with 600-800 receiving and he will be second coming.
RE: My expectation is...  
Eman11 : 5/15/2018 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13964287 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
250 carries, 1300 yards, 9 rushing TD

65 catches for 500 yards, 2 TD


That would be almost what the entire RB Corp put up last year and even better as far as TDs go.

They ran for 1549 yds with 6 rushing TDs, and had 608 receiving yds with only 1 TD.

Sign me up for your numbers right now.
My expectation is 15-20 touches, 80-90 ypg, 8 td (every other gm)  
Eric on Li : 5/15/2018 12:37 pm : link
So about 1400 total yards. I think that's pretty fair and realistic. He'll almost definitely lead the backfield in overall touches, so 15-20 is pretty reasonable. Dalvin Cook averaged 21.5 touches in his 4 games under Shurmur. He also averaged over 100 total yards per game, so there's definitely upside beyond my expectations.
RE: Greg  
Greg from LI : 5/15/2018 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13964309 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
are you still going to hate Barkley now that he's a Giant?


Are you still going to have your lips surgically attached to his ass if he is a fairly ordinary back?
Is it fair to have ANY expectations from Barkley UNLESS  
Marty in Albany : 5/15/2018 12:37 pm : link
you also have expectations of an O-line that can both pass & run block? Well do you?

"Are ya feelin' lucky?" -- C.E.
People want to make a big deal about DG's comment...  
Chris684 : 5/15/2018 12:39 pm : link
What he said about Barkley is true regardless of the type of career he has.

Looking through the lens of a talent evaluator, there isnt a box Barkley didnt check. I would imagine those are hard to come by for people in that profession.

If you're scouting Barkley, where is his weakness? It's not size, speed, athleticism, production, character, work ethic, health, pass pro, catching the ball, vision.

None of that means he's a lock in the pros. It just means he was the smart, obvious pick to make.
You can't put a number to it  
UberAlias : 5/15/2018 12:40 pm : link
Look, let's he honest here. Unless none of these quarterbacks excluding Mayfield fail to be franchise guys, or we get really lucky with one of the young QBs on the roster, there is going to be a ton of pressure on Barkely to not just be very good, but to be an all time great. If you pass on a franchise QB for a RB, you basically set the expectation that the RB to carry a similar impact (as the QB would). If not, then there are going to be legitimate questions -did DG blow it. In particular, if Sam Darnold is the real deal, we sure hope SB is like something we haven't seen in a long time, because that's the story they've all sold us on -SB was too good to pass up, gold jacket, sent down from the heavens, etc.
RE: and, I think SB has better hands  
barens : 5/15/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13964313 JonC said:
Quote:
and will prove to be more versatile in the passing attack.


He does have better hands, but didn't Elliott run a similar 40 time? Coming out of OSU, Elliott was known for being great with and without the ball in his hands. A great blocker, an extremely physical back, and he was/is able to go the distance.

All I'm saying is if you really think he's gonna be better than Elliott, those are some pretty high expectations.

Cook  
Phil in LA : 5/15/2018 12:41 pm : link
was getting a lot of easy runs in that Shurmur O. Saquon will take those to the house.
I don't care about the hype either - and hopefully, Barkley  
jcn56 : 5/15/2018 12:41 pm : link
doesn't listen to any of it.

But there's a chance he does, and if he struggles people are going to be regurgitating those lines repeatedly. He's still a human being, regardless of which hand God decided to molest him with.
He needs  
larryinnewhaven : 5/15/2018 12:42 pm : link
to be Leveon Bell/Zeke good to justify that pick. We shall see. Seems like a great kid. I was on the take a QB train. But really pulling for SB.
40 times don't tell the whole story  
JonC : 5/15/2018 12:42 pm : link
look no further than OB, it's about playing fast in pads and I don't think EE has the same level of explosion in those small spaces just before breaking off a run.
the point is.....  
Greg from LI : 5/15/2018 12:42 pm : link
....when you pick a back #2 overall, he needs to be truly amazing to be worth the pick when the league is littered with very good RBs taken after the first round.
Gurley and Cook  
JonC : 5/15/2018 12:43 pm : link
are straight line runners, no wiggle, just run downhill.
RE: RE: BBI gutcheck  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2018 12:43 pm : link
In comment 13964314 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13964304 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


who actually cares or pays attention to "hype"? I never understood this phenomenon, whether it be sports, movies, etc.

If Barkley fails I won't bitch and moan about the "hype train". I'll be disappointed the #2 overall pick wasn't good.



I think the more valid question is if the Giants might be doing him a disservice focusing on him so much. It's a lot of pressure and if he's merely a top 10 back it might cause some idiots to knock him. I guess on the field concern would be him trying to do too much.


He seems like a guy who can handle himself well when criticized. If he can't, then we have bigger problems than hype.
Too late now.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/15/2018 12:47 pm : link
The Giants talked him up big time, and it's time for him to perform Week 1. No excuses now.
I care about wins, not Barkleyís stats  
Vanzetti : 5/15/2018 12:49 pm : link
If Barkley leads the league in rushing and Giants win 7 games, who cares about his numbers? Odell put up historic numbers. , his first three years, does anybody 2014-7 as the golden years of Giants football?

RE: 40 times don't tell the whole story  
barens : 5/15/2018 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13964336 JonC said:
Quote:
look no further than OB, it's about playing fast in pads and I don't think EE has the same level of explosion in those small spaces just before breaking off a run.


No, they don't tell the whole story, I can't agree with you you there regarding explosion. Barkley can definitely make sharper cuts, and he's quicker in smaller spaces, that is the strength of his game, but Elliott often looks like he's shot out of a cannon.
Haven't read what others have said yet ...  
Beezer : 5/15/2018 12:51 pm : link

... but I'm not all that interested in the numbers. In a perfect world, I imagine his numbers will be up and down, with the REAL impact coming (I hope) from the Giants' ability to take whatever the defense is willing to give.

If the Giants have at least a relatively successful season, and Barkley's numbers aren't out of this world, I'm certain that a sect of idiotic fans will be critical and not see the big picture. That'll be too bad.
My guess is if the overall Giant offense improves then SB  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 12:52 pm : link
will have a pretty damn good year. Hell...Darkwa ran for 750 yards and 5 TDs for this shitty team last year. That alone tells you Barkley should put up close to 1200 and 10.

But unless its "good yards"...meaning it happens with consistency, especially during first halves and moves the chains, it will be somewhat meaningless. Giants need to get people committed to stopping the run with more than just the 4 down-lineman. That will create an efficient passing offense that Eli should be able to handle, and put up way more points on the board.

And as to Kay Adams...if she's talking then you should be watching.
If the hype is legit  
UberAlias : 5/15/2018 12:52 pm : link
He is going to have a huge impact on Odell. Despite the numbers, Odell has not taken over games like he did in stretches his rookie year. If he can impact the way teams defense Odell, he is going to have a major impact on the offense.
For me, it is not necessarily about the production...  
EricJ : 5/15/2018 12:55 pm : link
because we all know that so much as to do with the OL and the defense getting the ball back to the offense. Not to mention our ability to convert on 3rd and long to give Barkley more carries as the possession continues.

For me, I would have a huge problem if he did not immediately become our feature back. I would also have a problem if he was splitting the touches. Even a 60/40 split in his favor is unacceptable. Why put an inferior back in there? The only answer to that question I would accept is Barkley's stamina and ability to endure a full load in a 16 game season for the first time in his life. The beating on his body will be something he has never experienced before.
I wouldn't say it's the Giants hyping Barkely  
BSIMatt : 5/15/2018 12:56 pm : link
I'd say it was Gettleman gushing over him after the pick. I think Mara and Shurmur were pretty good at deflecting that type of attention. If anything the media, and draftniks have been hyping him.

If he's healthy I'd be disappointed if he didn't break Beckham's Giants record for total yards from scrimmage as a rookie, remembering that Beckham set that while missing 4 games.
Care less about pushing yards  
Sy'56 : 5/15/2018 12:59 pm : link
More about total yards and the pressure he takes off the passing game
Every #2 overall pick is hyped before his rookie season.  
Mr. Bungle : 5/15/2018 1:03 pm : link
And there are examples at every position of later-round/undrafted steals and value picks, even at QB (Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Tony Romo, Kirk Cousins). And there are examples of busts at #2 at all of the most coveted positions.

If Barkley makes a big, consistent contribution to the Giants winning games, then it was a great pick. It's as simple as that, whether you wanted the Giants to draft him or not. It's not about a stat line, and it's not about his reaching some non-quantifiable bar of extraordinary talent.

Tune out this nonsensical media noise.
Shockey came in as a rookie  
UberAlias : 5/15/2018 1:04 pm : link
And right away you could just see things were different with him out there. Yes, his career did not quite live up to that initial promise, but especially in that first year there was a spark the moment he stepped on the field and the offense was immediately on a different level.

With the Giants selecting a RB with the second over all pick, passing up on the potential franchise signal caller for the best player in the draft, you expect to see the offense on an all together different level, day 1.
I don't care about statistics. I want wins.  
Brown Recluse : 5/15/2018 1:14 pm : link
.
His affect...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/15/2018 1:14 pm : link
...on the offense matters (and indirectly, the defense), his personal statistics do not.
His presence changes how the OC will design plays. His overall effectiveness will dictate how the OC calls plays.

He can have a huge impact at 1,200 yards.
He could just be window dressing at 1,700 yards.
We'll see~
Looking forward to whatever it is...
RE: Care less about pushing yards  
giants#1 : 5/15/2018 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13964374 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
More about total yards and the pressure he takes off the passing game


^This. His presence isn't just about his numbers. He should also help the WRs (and Eli). To that end, one thing to look at will be Beckham's yard/rec numbers. He averaged 14.3 y/r as a rookie and then 15.1 y/r in 2015 before dropping to 13.5 and 12.1 the last 2 seasons (granted last season doesn't really count). So with a little less focus on him, can Beckham get back up to 14.5-15.0 y/r?

An extra 1.0-1.5 y/r may not seem like a lot, but that's an extra 100-150 yards over the season and could be the difference between extending some drives and punting.

When you are touched by the hand of God and a Touchdown maker  
NYSports1 : 5/15/2018 1:25 pm : link
I expect nothing less than 1500 rushing yards and 15 touchdowns
For me the expectations are more  
Jan in DC : 5/15/2018 1:27 pm : link
from his peers than anything else. Gurley, Fournette and Elliott all had over 1000 yards rushing their rookie season. I expect that, at the very least.

It might be unfair, but they drafted him over a QB. And we know that RBs traditionally have about an 8-10 year window and tend to have immediate impacts. So where he was drafted and who he was drafted over as well as what other comparable picks have done in the league lead me to these expectations.
Yes I think they have over-hyped Barkley  
jfosterBigBlue : 5/15/2018 1:29 pm : link
I think Gettleman has over-hyped Barkley. "Touched by the hand of God" and all. The media has run with that statement and others - especially the media that thought they were foolish to draft Barkley instead of one of the QBs. The media (with help from Gettleman) are making the first year expectations so high that there will be little chance Barkley can live up to it. Then the 'experts' will be telling us how right they were that the Giants should have taken a QB. I have watched enough ESPN shows and read enough Giants articles to see it coming....
I don't have statistical expectations  
Tim in VA : 5/15/2018 1:29 pm : link
I am able to judge what I see on the field, also taking into account the team and coaching aspects that can sometimes negatively or positively affect overall production (see Eli Manning). I do expect Barkley to be a playmaker and matchup nightmare from day 1 though.
He was drafted #2 overall  
ZogZerg : 5/15/2018 1:32 pm : link
Expectations are sky high.

I don't think you can pin that on "over-hyping" by the Giants.

He was top rated prospect in the draft and all the sports folks are hyping him up.
When you take a RB #2 over all,  
Default : 5/15/2018 1:32 pm : link
he better be Rookie of the Year.
Yea I expect the following and will be upset if these aren't met  
DennyInDenville : 5/15/2018 1:34 pm : link
Conservatively speaking I want ...

1.) 1,500+ rushing yards
2.) 65+ catches for 800+ yards
3.) 14 + TDs
4.) > 2 fumbles , 15+ games played
5.) Grade A pass protection, plays 85%+ of all snaps
RE: Shockey came in as a rookie  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/15/2018 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13964380 UberAlias said:
Quote:
And right away you could just see things were different with him out there. Yes, his career did not quite live up to that initial promise, but especially in that first year there was a spark the moment he stepped on the field and the offense was immediately on a different level.

With the Giants selecting a RB with the second over all pick, passing up on the potential franchise signal caller for the best player in the draft, you expect to see the offense on an all together different level, day 1.


Well said. No excuses.
the Giants have always  
Bill in UT : 5/15/2018 1:37 pm : link
over-hyped their rookies.
David Johnson averaged about 4+ yds per carry for 1200 plus for a full season, 80 catches and 20 TDs, behind an ordinary offensive line. I see no reason Barkley shouldn't be able to top that if he's a generational player.
Eric,  
Hades07 : 5/15/2018 1:37 pm : link
He has been hyped so much for so long, anything short of the best season ever by an NFL RB will cause many to be disappointed. I expect that he will become just as polarizing a figure with Giants fans as Eli was.

Fans will spend less time discussing the 3 TDs he might score in a game and talk about how he came up short on that 3rd down in the 1st quarter as the reason they lost 24-21.
I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Brown Recluse : 5/15/2018 1:38 pm : link
(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"

I'll be happy if he stays healthy and plays in all 16 games  
David B. : 5/15/2018 1:38 pm : link
If he does that, I'm sure he'll contribute a lot and make an impact. I don't much care about the exact numbers. Stay healthy, make plays.
YPC  
x meadowlander : 5/15/2018 1:41 pm : link
Get me over 4.7 YPC and I'm happy.

RE: Yea I expect the following and will be upset if these aren't met  
giants#1 : 5/15/2018 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13964431 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
Conservatively speaking I want ...

1.) 1,500+ rushing yards
2.) 65+ catches for 800+ yards
3.) 14 + TDs
4.) > 2 fumbles , 15+ games played
5.) Grade A pass protection, plays 85%+ of all snaps


Why do you want more than 2 fumbles?

And how is 2300+ yards from scrimmage "conservative"? That's a top 10 all time season!
Link - ( New Window )
RE: He was drafted #2 overall  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/15/2018 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13964427 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Expectations are sky high.

I don't think you can pin that on "over-hyping" by the Giants.

He was top rated prospect in the draft and all the sports folks are hyping him up.

This.

Not the Giants, the media.

and yes I expect him to rock our world...
RE: the Giants have always  
RAIN : 5/15/2018 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13964435 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
over-hyped their rookies.
David Johnson averaged about 4+ yds per carry for 1200 plus for a full season, 80 catches and 20 TDs, behind an ordinary offensive line. I see no reason Barkley shouldn't be able to top that if he's a generational player.


Our Oline has some work to just get to ordinary. Couple that with a new coach and scheme. 1200 yards is reasonable, but i agree that the "hype train" needs to be walked back a bit for the sake of the player.
Eric....Kay Adams thinks the Giants are over-hyping him?  
Emlen'sGremlins : 5/15/2018 1:55 pm : link
Ummm....what about his own promotional firm Roc Nation & Nike?

According to the Sports Illustrated NFL Draft cover story on Barkley this is how they both see things.

"It's Kobe, LeBron, Jordan, Tiger, Serena....and Saquan."
He's being paid as a top 5 RB,  
BH28 : 5/15/2018 1:56 pm : link
so i expect him to perform as one. I think 1200 yards, 8-10 TDs would fit that expectation. Especially with the instant success recent rookie RBs have had.

Let's see...we're now using Good Morning football's eye candy  
Thatís Gold, Jerry : 5/15/2018 1:56 pm : link
as an expert football analyst! Man, things have sunk to new levels on this site.

Anyway, as to expectations for Barkley, I quote Bill Parcells: "Let's not put him in Canton yet"
probably the first back to  
madgiantscow009 : 5/15/2018 1:57 pm : link
break 3,000 yards in a season by the 10th game.
RE: Care less about pushing yards  
Rjanyg : 5/15/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13964374 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
More about total yards and the pressure he takes off the passing game


100% agree with this. Forcing teams to honor the running game will do wonders for the passing game, especially the play action passing. Safteys will be biting hard on the play fake along with LB's and it should make passing lanes open up.
Eric are you kidding me?  
The 12th Man : 5/15/2018 2:08 pm : link
She knows as much about football as Anakim does. She was the in play baseball announcer for Cardinals baseball games not football games before she landed this gig.

Not worried about hyping him, the kid will have no issue dealing with it. I expect him to fall within the top 5 RB's in the league. I would love 8 to 10 rushing Td's and 4 receiving td's and 1,300 rushing yards for the year. He does that he will meet all the hype and Eli will look like he is 30 again.
1500 yards from scrimmage and 12+total TDs  
AcesUp : 5/15/2018 2:15 pm : link
Anything less than that would be a disappointment because it would have been available for much less money later in the draft. RBs enter the league at or near their prime, this isn't a situation where you need to be patient. He should be close to what he is going to be from the jump.

It's fair as well, he wanted to be drafted as high as possible and he has not shied away from spotlight or pressure. This is what comes with the kind of hype and expectations that got him drafted at 2.
We didn't start this,  
oldog : 5/15/2018 2:16 pm : link
he was touted as exceptional by the news media well pre-draft, and forecast to go first or near to. He did, but the subsequent noise has again come more from the media, including, for example, Sports Illustrated, than from any Giants source. What to reasonably expect, Sy is right, impact of diversification on offense, pressure off Eli and Odell, and not just more rushing but 1500 total yards.
RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Jim in Tampa : 5/15/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"


When the draft was over and the Giants had chosen Barkley over a QB, the "QB > RB" posters (myself included) were called whinny bitches, butt-hurt, snowflakes and various other names, whenever we tried to continue the discussion.

Now you're calling us out because we've "disappeared"???

You can't have it both ways.

The Giants made their choice. Why would we continue the debate weeks after the draft, when it will take at least a couple of years to determine whether or not the correct choice was made?
RE: Eric....Kay Adams thinks the Giants are over-hyping him?  
AcesUp : 5/15/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13964470 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
Ummm....what about his own promotional firm Roc Nation & Nike?

According to the Sports Illustrated NFL Draft cover story on Barkley this is how they both see things.

"It's Kobe, LeBron, Jordan, Tiger, Serena....and Saquan."


This as well. He's marketing himself, as he should be.
if cliches such as "touched by the hand of God"  
JonC : 5/15/2018 2:17 pm : link
bother you, it's time to take a break from life and figure out how to lighten up.
RE: RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Bill L : 5/15/2018 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13964518 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"




When the draft was over and the Giants had chosen Barkley over a QB, the "QB > RB" posters (myself included) were called whinny bitches, butt-hurt, snowflakes and various other names, whenever we tried to continue the discussion.

Now you're calling us out because we've "disappeared"???

You can't have it both ways.

The Giants made their choice. Why would we continue the debate weeks after the draft, when it will take at least a couple of years to determine whether or not the correct choice was made?
It's only me, but I prefer it your way.
Yeah  
afann : 5/15/2018 2:22 pm : link
The Giants were excited to get him and DG was gushing over him but every and I mean everyone was saying he was the best person in the draft. The over all consensus was that he was the best prospect since Peyton and Luck and a once in a generation player and that was not just from the Giants. Analysts and players were saying no one compares to him, except of course when the giants took him then people said Ďhow can they take a RB that high. Now, itís the Giants are over hyping them. The media is NEVER happy and they want to paint a negative picture on EVERYTHING. Why?? Because bad press sells
RE: We didn't start this,  
Bill L : 5/15/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13964516 oldog said:
Quote:
he was touted as exceptional by the news media well pre-draft, and forecast to go first or near to. He did, but the subsequent noise has again come more from the media, including, for example, Sports Illustrated, than from any Giants source. What to reasonably expect, Sy is right, impact of diversification on offense, pressure off Eli and Odell, and not just more rushing but 1500 total yards.


I think that this is pertinent. His number may actually not match up to our dreams or even our expectations. But I would be willing to bet that there will be a lot of hidden numbers.

If Eli or OBJ, or Engram, etc all of the sudden start putting up ridiculous stats, then maybe some of their numbers are actually Barkley's.

It might just be that the way to evaluate Barkley's worth and impact, is to look and see how the offense performs in toto.
RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
EricJ : 5/15/2018 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"


I was one of the guys saying we needed to draft a QB. I have not disappeared. The difference is that the draft is over moron and there is no point in discussing what the Giants SHOULD HAVE DONE. They made the pick so now I am on board with doing whatever it takes to win with what we have.

Shit.. if people were here still screaming about the selection then that would be ridiculous. I hope Barkley ends up being the best RB in Giants history. Who would not want that to happen at this point?
RE: Yea I expect the following and will be upset if these aren't met  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/15/2018 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13964431 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
Conservatively speaking I want ...

1.) 1,500+ rushing yards
2.) 65+ catches for 800+ yards
3.) 14 + TDs
4.) > 2 fumbles , 15+ games played
5.) Grade A pass protection, plays 85%+ of all snaps

More than two fumbles? Why would you root for that?

And I don't think he's going to play 85% of snaps - that's a really high number.
if you don't expect big things from Saquon ...  
Csonka : 5/15/2018 2:27 pm : link
then you don't take him #2.
RE: RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Bill L : 5/15/2018 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13964536 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"




I was one of the guys saying we needed to draft a QB. I have not disappeared. The difference is that the draft is over moron and there is no point in discussing what the Giants SHOULD HAVE DONE. They made the pick so now I am on board with doing whatever it takes to win with what we have.

Shit.. if people were here still screaming about the selection then that would be ridiculous. I hope Barkley ends up being the best RB in Giants history. Who would not want that to happen at this point?
To be fair, there actually are still players screaming about it.
RE: RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Jan in DC : 5/15/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13964536 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"




I was one of the guys saying we needed to draft a QB. I have not disappeared. The difference is that the draft is over moron and there is no point in discussing what the Giants SHOULD HAVE DONE. They made the pick so now I am on board with doing whatever it takes to win with what we have.

Shit.. if people were here still screaming about the selection then that would be ridiculous. I hope Barkley ends up being the best RB in Giants history. Who would not want that to happen at this point?


This is exactly how I feel. I wanted a QB, didn't happen, so I'm on board with the Barkley pick. I want him to succeed, just like I want Eli to succeed.
The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
Greg from LI : 5/15/2018 2:39 pm : link
On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.
RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
Bill L : 5/15/2018 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.
I am not downplaying production; I'm saying production is impact and impact will show up in more than just his own personal numbers.
RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
JoeMoney19 : 5/15/2018 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.

Can't wait for the 1,500 total yards / 11 TD rookie season debates.
Well, Barkley shouldn't upset God so  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 2:45 pm : link
lets go with 2000 total yards from scrimmage and 16 TDs...
My expectation is that  
Pascal4554 : 5/15/2018 2:46 pm : link
we compete for the division and to make the playoffs and Barkley is a big reason why. I think 1200 yards and 10 touchdowns would be a terrific year. He was taken with the #2 overall pick. What are the Giants supposed to say? We picked him #2 because we think he sucks. He has a good head on his shoulders. If he can't handle the expectations and pressures of playing in New York as the #2 pick he shouldn't have been the #2 pick. I think he will handle the pressure fine.

My guess is if we start playing winning football and the disaster of last season starts to be washed from people's memories, if Barkley plays at or near a pro bowl level, people will quickly forget about overly hyped expectations and just be happy he is a Giant.

If next year we have another dismal season (which I don't think will happen), then nothing Barkley does will be good enough.

...  
Mr. Bungle : 5/15/2018 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better

Said no one ever.
RE: RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Brown Recluse : 5/15/2018 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13964536 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"




I was one of the guys saying we needed to draft a QB. I have not disappeared. The difference is that the draft is over moron and there is no point in discussing what the Giants SHOULD HAVE DONE. They made the pick so now I am on board with doing whatever it takes to win with what we have.

Shit.. if people were here still screaming about the selection then that would be ridiculous. I hope Barkley ends up being the best RB in Giants history. Who would not want that to happen at this point?


Moron? Haha. Anyway...

If you're still here then clearly you're not one of the people I'm referring to. There were a lot of posters that popped in a few months before the draft and banged their drum about QB over RB. They stuck around for a week or so after the draft to keep whining and then they disappeared.
Apparently some people  
Mr. Bungle : 5/15/2018 2:47 pm : link
need this resource.
link - ( New Window )
RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
WillVAB : 5/15/2018 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.


This is fair.

He was taken number 2 overall and is already paid like a top 5 RB. No excuses, he needs to produce as advertised.
RE: ...  
Greg from LI : 5/15/2018 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13964591 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better


Said no one ever.


Didn't follow those threads too closely, did you?
RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
Brown Recluse : 5/15/2018 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.


Pedo State. Pedo State. Blah blah blah. Virginia sucks. Blah. Blah.
RE: RE: ...  
Mr. Bungle : 5/15/2018 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13964598 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13964591 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better


Said no one ever.



Didn't follow those threads too closely, did you?

Link me to one.
Greg  
Chris684 : 5/15/2018 2:51 pm : link
Your posts read like the ramblings of an angry, delusional old man.

RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Keith : 5/15/2018 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"


This post sucks on a few levels. First off, I was one who was pretty adamant about not drafting a RB at 2. I still feel like it was a bad decision. I haven't really mentioned it since the draft because:

A. I like to root for Giants players to succeed
and
B. I don't want to keep harping on something that is over and I have no control over.

Have I disappeared??? Would you rather I continually post about why I think it's a bad idea? Also, just because the Giants ended up drafting a RB doesn't mean it was the right move. Time will tell.
What was Elliot's rookie numbers?  
kelsto811 : 5/15/2018 2:52 pm : link
Anything less than that and I think you'll see opinions about how he wasn't worth 2nd overall. I wouldn't agree with that but I think that's a benchmark.
Barkley hype started  
PEEJ : 5/15/2018 2:53 pm : link
way before the Giants drafted him
RE: Greg  
Greg from LI : 5/15/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13964604 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Your posts read like the ramblings of an angry, delusional old man.


I'd retort, but then I would have to read your posts to know what they read like. I see "Chris684" and my eyes glaze over
His 'production'  
Jay in Toronto : 5/15/2018 2:54 pm : link
should also be measured in his contribution to the passing game:

As pointed out, receiving yard but also as another threat to cover, as tiring out the D with the run game, as creating a credible 'sell' for play action passes etc etc
RE: RE: Greg  
Keith : 5/15/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13964612 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13964604 Chris684 said:


Quote:


Your posts read like the ramblings of an angry, delusional old man.




I'd retort, but then I would have to read your posts to know what they read like. I see "Chris684" and my eyes glaze over


lol, this is funny. However, its obviously not true as you clearly read this post.
Whatever Kay Adams says is correct  
allstarjim : 5/15/2018 2:54 pm : link
She is definitely a contender for most beautiful woman on earth. Talk about being touched by the hand of God.
RE: Whatever Kay Adams says is correct  
Keith : 5/15/2018 2:56 pm : link
In comment 13964616 allstarjim said:
Quote:
She is definitely a contender for most beautiful woman on earth. Talk about being touched by the hand of God.


So, so true. She's very attractive, she seems smart, she loves football and she plays fantasy. She's a catch(no pun intended?)
RE: Whatever Kay Adams says is correct  
Bill L : 5/15/2018 2:56 pm : link
In comment 13964616 allstarjim said:
Quote:
She is definitely a contender for most beautiful woman on earth. Talk about being touched by the hand of God.
Well that's just great. God's gonna get fired because of MeToo
RE: RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Brown Recluse : 5/15/2018 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13964518 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"




When the draft was over and the Giants had chosen Barkley over a QB, the "QB > RB" posters (myself included) were called whinny bitches, butt-hurt, snowflakes and various other names, whenever we tried to continue the discussion.

Now you're calling us out because we've "disappeared"???

You can't have it both ways.

The Giants made their choice. Why would we continue the debate weeks after the draft, when it will take at least a couple of years to determine whether or not the correct choice was made?


The lot of them were called whiny bitches because thats exactly how they were acting afterwards (I'm not saying you specifically, but in general). Prior to the draft, they were so adamant that they were right and anything else would be wrong. I even recall one poster saying how everyone would look so stupid when the Giants picked a QB over a RB.

When arrogance is humbled, oftentimes the result is "whiny, butt-hurt bitching." I did find some measure of satisfaction in seeing the meltdown, because they were making this place miserable prior to the pick.
RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
allstarjim : 5/15/2018 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.


Said booster here. I expect that he will reach 2000 yard scrimmage seasons early in his career. As a reasonable expectation for his rookie season, what I expect is better numbers than a 1200 yard, 10 TD season. Would I be disappointed if he *only* has a 1200 yard, 10 TD season? No...those are extraordinary numbers for a rookie RB, and it would be a very good season to build upon. I think he is capable of much more, though. I also don't think the expectations are unfair. You were drafted number 2 overall, he knows how good he is. When it's time, I don't think pressures are going to get to him, I think he's going to play some great football.
RE: RE: Whatever Kay Adams says is correct  
Hades07 : 5/15/2018 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13964621 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13964616 allstarjim said:


Quote:


She is definitely a contender for most beautiful woman on earth. Talk about being touched by the hand of God.

Well that's just great. God's gonna get fired because of MeToo
LMFAO!!!!
RE: RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
Brown Recluse : 5/15/2018 3:02 pm : link
In comment 13964607 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"




This post sucks on a few levels. First off, I was one who was pretty adamant about not drafting a RB at 2. I still feel like it was a bad decision. I haven't really mentioned it since the draft because:

A. I like to root for Giants players to succeed
and
B. I don't want to keep harping on something that is over and I have no control over.

Have I disappeared??? Would you rather I continually post about why I think it's a bad idea? Also, just because the Giants ended up drafting a RB doesn't mean it was the right move. Time will tell.


Yeah you were pretty adamant about not drafting a RB, but you were also open to other options - so you don't really qualify.
RE: RE: Whatever Kay Adams says is correct  
allstarjim : 5/15/2018 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13964621 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13964616 allstarjim said:


Quote:


She is definitely a contender for most beautiful woman on earth. Talk about being touched by the hand of God.

Well that's just great. God's gonna get fired because of MeToo



Haha. Who's going to fire God, though? Is it a triumvirate of Kanye, Charlie Sheen, and Alec Baldwin? "We are going to have to let you go, Lord." *Lightning Bolt* "You were saying?"
Needed to throw a "Hosanna"  
allstarjim : 5/15/2018 3:06 pm : link
on the end of that joke.
RE: RE: Whatever Kay Adams says is correct  
Jay in Toronto : 5/15/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13964621 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13964616 allstarjim said:


Quote:


She is definitely a contender for most beautiful woman on earth. Talk about being touched by the hand of God.

Well that's just great. God's gonna get fired because of MeToo


Nice job!!!
The bitterness displayed here in regards to Barkley being selected  
Britt in VA : 5/15/2018 3:07 pm : link
over a QB is something to behold.

It's like you guys are just waiting to pounce. It almost seems like you want him to fail because you'd rather be right than have the Giants do well or have Barkley succeed.
RE: RE: RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
allstarjim : 5/15/2018 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13964625 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13964518 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 13964437 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


(most of whome have for some reason disappeared after the draft ended) to come back after the season and tell us how they were right and the Giants were wrong in not taking a QB just because Barkley didn't hit some sort of "statistical success measurement."

"BUT LOOK AT THE DATA.....!!"




When the draft was over and the Giants had chosen Barkley over a QB, the "QB > RB" posters (myself included) were called whinny bitches, butt-hurt, snowflakes and various other names, whenever we tried to continue the discussion.

Now you're calling us out because we've "disappeared"???

You can't have it both ways.

The Giants made their choice. Why would we continue the debate weeks after the draft, when it will take at least a couple of years to determine whether or not the correct choice was made?



The lot of them were called whiny bitches because thats exactly how they were acting afterwards (I'm not saying you specifically, but in general). Prior to the draft, they were so adamant that they were right and anything else would be wrong. I even recall one poster saying how everyone would look so stupid when the Giants picked a QB over a RB.

When arrogance is humbled, oftentimes the result is "whiny, butt-hurt bitching." I did find some measure of satisfaction in seeing the meltdown, because they were making this place miserable prior to the pick.


There was one poster who claimed that us Barkley supporters would look like fools because it was so obvious that you don't take a RB over this opportunity to take a QB, and that Gettleman is smarter than that. Then, when Barkley was taken..."Gettleman is not the man I thought he was." LMAO. It looks like he deleted his account.

BW in DC is still here, though. Good for you, BW. We are all rooting for the success of the franchise, and even though you weren't a big believer even in the talent, trust me, you are about to see why you were wrong here in about 4 months.
.  
allstarjim : 5/15/2018 3:17 pm : link
Of course  
mattyblue : 5/15/2018 3:19 pm : link
he is being overhyped. How could anyone possibly live up to the expectations that people gave the kid. I was firmly in the QB camp but of course want to see Saquon be incredible, itís just that I donít even know what he would have to do to meet generational, touches by God, Barry Sanders comparisons. I donít think you can even put a number on it. He needs to dominate games like Beckham or LT but even more of an impact.
RE: RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/15/2018 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13964596 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.



This is fair.

He was taken number 2 overall and is already paid like a top 5 RB. No excuses, he needs to produce as advertised.


100%. When the GM and head coach are talking this guy up as much as they are and he's picked where he was picked, of course there are going to be very high expectations. We've heard from the GM and head coach he is going to make the entire offense better. Even the defense, due to keeping them off the field.

Great. Now, we have to see it. There's nothing wrong with that.
Kay Adams: "Giants over-hyping Saquon Barkley"  
MarineMan : 5/15/2018 3:21 pm : link
IMHO I don't think he needs to by hyped up. He has his own

expectations and I believe he will put forth 100% effort to

help this team compete. That is all you can ask for. Sure

there is big expectations after what this team has been

through. It is not just one man it is a team effort.
Football isnt a stats game.  
mittenedman : 5/15/2018 3:26 pm : link
I expect him to be a dominant player.
RE: RE: RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
WillVAB : 5/15/2018 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13964662 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13964596 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.



This is fair.

He was taken number 2 overall and is already paid like a top 5 RB. No excuses, he needs to produce as advertised.



100%. When the GM and head coach are talking this guy up as much as they are and he's picked where he was picked, of course there are going to be very high expectations. We've heard from the GM and head coach he is going to make the entire offense better. Even the defense, due to keeping them off the field.

Great. Now, we have to see it. There's nothing wrong with that.


Yep. People are giving Greg from LI shit but heís right. Barkley supporters canít move the bar once the season begins. The GM said you take a HoF caliber player 2 overall. Barkley has been hyped as a transcendent player. He needs to live up to those expectations or there will be scrutiny ó which would be completely fair in my opinion.
RE: The bitterness displayed here in regards to Barkley being selected  
Mr. Bungle : 5/15/2018 3:34 pm : link
In comment 13964645 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
over a QB is something to behold.

It's like you guys are just waiting to pounce. It almost seems like you want him to fail because you'd rather be right than have the Giants do well or have Barkley succeed.

It doesn't "almost seem" that way. It is exactly that.

What's even funnier is that no specific QB is even named as the one who should have been taken instead of Barkley. Just "a QB" should have been taken. So we don't even know if Sam "Turnovers" Darnold, Josh "The Concussion Kid" Rosen, or Josh "50-Something %" Allen is the one who should have been drafted to kick Eli to the curb. Safer to just wait and see which of the three turns out best and say, "Should have taken that guy!"

Not to mention that an intriguing QB prospect was taken in a later round by NYG. God forbid both Barkley AND Lauletta work out for the Giants! Worst-case scenario!
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/15/2018 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13964678 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13964662 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13964596 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 13964570 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


On the one hand, he's the greatest running back prospect to ever grace a football field, a hybrid of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders only better, "touched by the hand of God" and assorted other silliness.

On the other hand, if you say you expect production commensurate with the hyperbole, his fan club sputters about how unfair the expectations are. Either he IS what his boosters say he is, or he isn't.



This is fair.

He was taken number 2 overall and is already paid like a top 5 RB. No excuses, he needs to produce as advertised.



100%. When the GM and head coach are talking this guy up as much as they are and he's picked where he was picked, of course there are going to be very high expectations. We've heard from the GM and head coach he is going to make the entire offense better. Even the defense, due to keeping them off the field.

Great. Now, we have to see it. There's nothing wrong with that.



Yep. People are giving Greg from LI shit but heís right. Barkley supporters canít move the bar once the season begins. The GM said you take a HoF caliber player 2 overall. Barkley has been hyped as a transcendent player. He needs to live up to those expectations or there will be scrutiny ó which would be completely fair in my opinion.


The funniest part is someone calling out other Giants fans. The same people who when Eli got benched, claimed to be bigger Eli fans than Giants fans, and that he 'proud of it.'

Irony. Hypocrisy. We got it all today!
Barkley  
Dragon : 5/15/2018 3:37 pm : link
Will not change the outcome of more than 2 or 3 games this year this team will be learning just as he will. He has to rush for a 1000 yards the rest is all about how talented he really is. How about if teams stack the box can this team really control the line or complete passes?

OBJ is very talented but this team still seemed lost in more games then one should expect why we just donít know. Itís a team sport but we donít have many special players Barkley could be one but to as him to be really special in year number 1, seems very unfair. We took the HB he should get 1000 yards but if we had taken a QB he would have sat all year as planned.
Are Giants fans really mocking what was an under 20 year old QB  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/15/2018 3:37 pm : link
for committing TOs? Giants fans? Really???

Wow.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
Mr. Bungle : 5/15/2018 3:39 pm : link
In comment 13964678 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Barkley supporters canít move the bar once the season begins. The GM said you take a HoF caliber player 2 overall. Barkley has been hyped as a transcendent player. He needs to live up to those expectations or there will be scrutiny ó which would be completely fair in my opinion.

The "Should Have Taken a QB at #2" crowd can't have it both ways, either. They need to specify which one out of Darnold, Rosen, and Allen should have been taken at #2. They can't just try to skate by with "a quarterback," because the Giants couldn't send "A Quarterback" on the card to the podium.

And then if that specific QB doesn't end up a Hall of Famer, they were wrong.

Works both ways.
Expectations on any player drafted #2 overall...  
GFAN52 : 5/15/2018 3:40 pm : link
are always going to be unrealistically high.
This might be news to you,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/15/2018 3:43 pm : link
but excessive turnovers are considered a "negative" in a QB prospect.

Pointing them out is "mocking"?

JFC.
RE: RE: Greg  
BMac : 5/15/2018 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13964328 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13964309 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


are you still going to hate Barkley now that he's a Giant?

You've mellowed considerably!



Are you still going to have your lips surgically attached to his ass if he is a fairly ordinary back?
RE: This might be news to you,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/15/2018 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13964692 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
but excessive turnovers are considered a "negative" in a QB prospect.

Pointing them out is "mocking"?

JFC.


My post went directly over your head. I just found it funny that a 20 year old (and younger in his previous years) was being presented as someone the Giants (or anyone else) shouldn't have taken based on TOs committed at that young of an age when we've had a QB that's committed more than his fair share of TOs in his career and still managed to win 2 SBs earlier in his career. It's just...funny.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
WillVAB : 5/15/2018 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13964688 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13964678 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Barkley supporters canít move the bar once the season begins. The GM said you take a HoF caliber player 2 overall. Barkley has been hyped as a transcendent player. He needs to live up to those expectations or there will be scrutiny ó which would be completely fair in my opinion.


The "Should Have Taken a QB at #2" crowd can't have it both ways, either. They need to specify which one out of Darnold, Rosen, and Allen should have been taken at #2. They can't just try to skate by with "a quarterback," because the Giants couldn't send "A Quarterback" on the card to the podium.

And then if that specific QB doesn't end up a Hall of Famer, they were wrong.

Works both ways.


A QB pick is completely irrelevant to this discussion. This is about Barkley and whether he will prove to be worth 2 overall. I wanted a trade down, but I hope Barkley is everything his supporters claim him to be. Heís a Giant now and the draft is over.

If he isnít clearly better than every other RB in this class, there will be scrutiny. If he isnít better than just about every RB in the league, there will be scrutiny. The GM and HC gave a hard sell to the fan base re: Barkley being a gold jacket guy and everything else. If he doesnít live up to those expectations, fair or not, the decision will be criticized and deservedly so.
Glad the Saquon Barkley police  
Chris684 : 5/15/2018 3:50 pm : link
are here to keep all of our expectations in check.

We definitely don't want to disappoint those heavy hitters Dave in Hoboken or Greg!!
Chris seems like a bit of a psycho..  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/15/2018 3:51 pm : link
.
RE: RE: The bitterness displayed here in regards to Barkley being selected  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 3:53 pm : link
In comment 13964679 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13964645 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


over a QB is something to behold.

It's like you guys are just waiting to pounce. It almost seems like you want him to fail because you'd rather be right than have the Giants do well or have Barkley succeed.


It doesn't "almost seem" that way. It is exactly that.



What?? Who is posting above and saying "exactly that" or intimating they want Barkley to fail because DG should have taken a QB?



He should be a bigger, faster , hopefully more durable version of  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/15/2018 3:55 pm : link
Dalvin Cook.

Cooks numbers in Shurmurs system last year:

4 games (before injury):
Cook is 5í10 / 215 (Barkley 5í11 / 230)
Rushing 74 ATT 354 Yards
Receiving 11 CAT 90 Yards

Extrapolated over 16 games:
296ATT 1416YDS
Receving 44 CT 360 YDS
TOTAL YDS from scrimmage:1776 YDS

I would anticipate the receiving yards to be better but this would be a good floor I think of what to expect if he plays all 16 games. The Vikes OL wasnt some conglomerate of probowlers and was similarly overhauled the offseason before.
I heard that a guy in Syracuse is touting him...  
BMac : 5/15/2018 3:59 pm : link
...for 2500 yards rushing and 1250 yards receiving. TDs will total 34. Says he's best player since the Giants snuck the Lambuth Special in under everyone's noses. Hell, he's almost as good as Sean Bennett!
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Barkley bandwagon is trying really hard to have it both ways  
Brown Recluse : 5/15/2018 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13964678 WillVAB said:
Quote:

Yep. People are giving Greg from LI shit but heís right.


Are you sure he's not getting shit because everything and everyone from Penn State is a pedophile by default?
After what we've had to  
Gman11 : 5/15/2018 4:05 pm : link
watch from the RB position over the last few years I'd be satisfied with a guy that can get a first down on third and one and maybe rush for a TD inside the ten.

Anything else is icing on the cake.
RE: After what we've had to  
Greg from LI : 5/15/2018 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13964720 Gman11 said:
Quote:
watch from the RB position over the last few years I'd be satisfied with a guy that can get a first down on third and one and maybe rush for a TD inside the ten.


Such a back is pretty easily found later on in the draft.
I think Barkley will be great right off the bat  
djm : 5/15/2018 4:23 pm : link
But Iím not necessarily expecting it. I also think some will probably overstate whatever shortcomings he has. Knowing the Giants aura Barkley will be underated and great at the same time.

Iím looking for the offense to produce first. Barkleyís numbers donít have to be amazing for his impact to be great. Thatís all we should ask for.
Barkley is the Bomb  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/15/2018 4:25 pm : link
it's going to be real exciting to have two generational type players on the Offense

Not many teams have this kind of opportunity -- I plan on enjoying every minute of it

GO GIANTS!!!!

Yeah Baby!!!
My expectation is simple:  
baadbill : 5/15/2018 4:37 pm : link
The eye test. I want to see him make some exciting plays and, after the last game, for me to believe, without any doubt or hesitation, that the Giants clearly made the right draft decision.

End of story.
Don't forget his likely impact on the rest of the roster  
VinegarPeppers : 5/15/2018 4:53 pm : link
It's massive. Forget his numbers. They'll be embedded in OBJs numbers, Sheps and Engrams and even Ellison's.

It's his overall impact on the offense that matters. Should be huge.
RE: RE: RE: I can't wait for all of the QB > RB draft posters  
EricJ : 5/15/2018 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13964593 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:


Moron? Haha. Anyway...

If you're still here then clearly you're not one of the people I'm referring to. There were a lot of posters that popped in a few months before the draft and banged their drum about QB over RB. They stuck around for a week or so after the draft to keep whining and then they disappeared.


I have been here for a while. Not going anywhere and not going to flip flop on what I believe is right without admitting that I was wrong. So, where we are now is that I truly hope I was wrong. I hope Barkley develops into a HOF running back for the Giants and that one of these two QBs on our roster are good enough to replace Eli and be a top 10 QB in the league.

Meanwhile, if there was an edit option in these threads, I would have removed the moron comment. Apologize for that.
The  
Toth029 : 5/15/2018 5:12 pm : link
Media can't stop talking about him.

It's not only the Giants overhyping him.
If anything,  
old man : 5/15/2018 5:13 pm : link
it's the media with the lovefest.
Though, in a rare moment, the media has it right.
He's Chuck Norris, only more so  
HomerJones45 : 5/15/2018 5:23 pm : link
Fournette 1040 yards in 13 games, 9 td's and 36 catches for 300 yards and a td.

Hunt, 1327 yards, 8td's, 53 catches 455 yards and 3 td's. (geez, did the Chiefs luck out getting that guy in the 3rd round).

Cook is an exercise in extrapolation as he only ran the ball 74 times. The Vikes were 2-2 with Cook playing. They lost one game with Murray as the starting back. It's a question as to whether the Vikings were better with Murray getting the carries.

SB needs to be in Fournette-Hunt territory as a second round pick to be considered a success.
correction  
HomerJones45 : 5/15/2018 5:28 pm : link
second overall pick
I donít think we should be measuring SBís  
DonnieD89 : 5/15/2018 5:32 pm : link
rushing yards and pass catching or total yards for that matter. His sucess should be measured by the Giants total offense. SB should make everyone better. I donít care if SB is rushing for 600 yards or 1800 yards. I expect the Giants to be in the top 5 in the leaugue in total offense. Need to think what the Rams put up when they had ďThe greatest show on turfĒ.
Elliot  
darren in pdx : 5/15/2018 5:37 pm : link
was just shy 2,000 all-purpose yards his rookie year, and that was behind a very good o-line. As someone said before, football is not a stat game, Barkley was chosen because how he could positively affect the entire offense. That said, if he doesn't break 1,000 rushing after 16 games if the o-line is finally at least playing at an average level, that would be disappointing.
lot of talent at skill positions  
bc4life : 5/15/2018 5:43 pm : link
legitimate set of triplets - Beckham, Barkley, & Engram. And they have some decent supporting cast Shepard & Stewart. Keep an eye out for Latimer & Adams.

If they establish the run like they want to - look for everyone's numbers to be very good, but no one will be breaking records because of spreading the pill around.

The issue is not just the # of Yards SB gets but if he is dangerous enough to make teams game plan for him, hence Shurmur's comments about legitimate run game = realistic chance of play action working. He could have around 1000 yards and help the offense tremendously because they have to play the run honestly every play.

And they are working towards building a line that anyone could run behind
You may well see guys  
bc4life : 5/15/2018 5:47 pm : link
like Latimer, Adams, Lewis scoring more TDs than expected because the others will draw so much attention.

But, it all begins with the run game.
I expect stats like this,  
DonnieD89 : 5/15/2018 6:01 pm : link
and by the way, Marshall Faulk lead the team in receiving yards. Very impressive. Could see Saquon doing that at some point.
Link - ( New Window )
I still canít get over the people  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2018 6:12 pm : link
who think you can just pick up a back later in the draft. Weíve been doing that for a decade, we keep cutting guys, they all suck. Iím tired of it, get a Fucking legit player and worry about the rest of the roster.

Good for the teams that got good RBs later, unfortunately it hasnít been us for a while.
RE: The bitterness displayed here in regards to Barkley being selected  
mfsd : 5/15/2018 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13964645 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
over a QB is something to behold.

It's like you guys are just waiting to pounce. It almost seems like you want him to fail because you'd rather be right than have the Giants do well or have Barkley succeed.


Post of the year so far re: Barkley/draft.
Some of you really are miserable  
djm : 5/15/2018 7:18 pm : link
Youíre going to really hold gettleman to those comments he made about Hall of fame and touched by god or whatever... and what, if Barkely tweaks a hammy or turns an ankle or merely plays at a very good slightly under elite Level his first 20 games or so, then what? Pitchforks and constant fucking bitching. And why? Because the GM loved the player and told the fan base he loved the player?

Heís a special fucking talent. The GM, EVERY GM agrees. So he said Barkley is a blessed human being!! Shut the fuck up and hope for the best and enjoy it. Some of you have placed a bullseye on the GM because he told the fans the truth?
And please...  
djm : 5/15/2018 7:22 pm : link
Just because itís possible to find a good rb in round 2-3 doesnít mean itís fucking easy nor is a 2nd or 3rd round pick a cheap throw away pick anyway. Barkley has off the charts potential.

No one gives the LA Rams shit for taking Dickerson at pick 2 when 3-4 good or great QBs were drafted after.



...  
christian : 5/15/2018 7:34 pm : link
I'll go on record to say I wanted Darnold, and believe the Jets will win a playoff game before the Giants.

I believe the Giants were in every way a 3-13 team, and do not have the talent nor time to improve to playoff caliber in the time Manning has left as a competent NFL QB.

I don't believe the improvements to the line are all that transformative and that one of John Jerry or Erick Flowers will be an opening day starter.

I'm curious to see if Manning is asked to change his drop-back and footwork in the new system, and I will not be surprised if the new system and 4-5 new starters on the line create growing pains that last a lot of the season.

I also feel that a new system on defense will have bumps and the beginning of the year will look pretty bad on that side of the ball.

I expect a 9-7 type year with a late rebound. I expect the same type of year in 2019 as the QB declines more.

I don't think Barkley is enough to pull this team from awful to championship contender.

I fully expect Barkley to have fine rush numbers. I don't see how he'll improve the QB's ability to throw accurately short, so I don't expect big number in the pass game.

In a league where average QB play can cost 20M, I would have opted for the chance of above average QB play at 6M.

I'll be absolutely thrilled if I'm wrong. I love when the Giants are good, and I don't care much how and with whom.
Christian  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2018 7:39 pm : link
while you could very well be right, you can easily be wrong. Fortunes change on a dime in the NFL, happens every year. And 3-13 is pretty irrelevant for me. Injuries and a complete and utter disaster of a HC and GM played the biggest role there. Itís amazing what new leadership does, happens often.

Weíve got our first legit LT and RB in ages, that alone would be a great offseason but we also upgraded at LB and likely LG right out of the gates. Add in a healthy Beckham and you have a really good foundation with 2 new coaches who seem to be ahead of the curve with their respective units.

Donít know why anyone wouldnít be optimistic.
RE: Some of you really are miserable  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2018 7:39 pm : link
In comment 13964865 djm said:
Quote:
Youíre going to really hold gettleman to those comments he made about Hall of fame and touched by god or whatever... and what, if Barkely tweaks a hammy or turns an ankle or merely plays at a very good slightly under elite Level his first 20 games or so, then what? Pitchforks and constant fucking bitching. And why? Because the GM loved the player and told the fan base he loved the player?

Heís a special fucking talent. The GM, EVERY GM agrees. So he said Barkley is a blessed human being!! Shut the fuck up and hope for the best and enjoy it. Some of you have placed a bullseye on the GM because he told the fans the truth?


He's a paid professional speaking as a representative for a his franchise at a press conference. It's an entirely different scenario than some knucklehead on BBI declaring Barkley an instant hall of famer because football fans act like football fans. There's no situation where the people who actually have their finger on the big red button should be acting like the average fan.

Also, take a pill. It's a discussion board. If you're sick of talking about a particular topic go take a walk.
And again  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2018 7:42 pm : link
people care way too much about press conferences. We have a GM whoís a bit of an oddball comedian, yet we want to take everything he says as gospel? Makes no sense. He picked the best player in the draft, I couldnít care less what he said. Move on.
RE: And again  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2018 7:43 pm : link
In comment 13964890 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
people care way too much about press conferences. We have a GM whoís a bit of an oddball comedian, yet we want to take everything he says as gospel? Makes no sense. He picked the best player in the draft, I couldnít care less what he said. Move on.


I'd be fine with this take if we held players to the same standard, but we don't. When players say something other than nothing at press conferences, people get bent out of shape about that.
Maybe some people  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2018 7:49 pm : link
but I couldnít care less there either. These are all forced interviews. Players want to go home. Coaches and GMs donít want to answer the same questions over and over. If someone had a mic in my face asking me questions on the ride home from work Iíd tell them to fuck off.

Outside of being outlandishly rude or vulgar, these press conferences mean absolutely nothing and shouldnít be used as a barometer for competence.
RE: Maybe some people  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2018 7:49 pm : link
In comment 13964902 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but I couldnít care less there either. These are all forced interviews. Players want to go home. Coaches and GMs donít want to answer the same questions over and over. If someone had a mic in my face asking me questions on the ride home from work Iíd tell them to fuck off.

Outside of being outlandishly rude or vulgar, these press conferences mean absolutely nothing and shouldnít be used as a barometer for competence.


I entirely agree with you.
RE: RE: And again  
BigBlueShock : 5/15/2018 8:05 pm : link
In comment 13964893 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13964890 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


people care way too much about press conferences. We have a GM whoís a bit of an oddball comedian, yet we want to take everything he says as gospel? Makes no sense. He picked the best player in the draft, I couldnít care less what he said. Move on.



I'd be fine with this take if we held players to the same standard, but we don't. When players say something other than nothing at press conferences, people get bent out of shape about that.

The funny part about your post is that it is mostly (if not completely) the QB crowd that is taking an obvious joking statement and making this some huge deal. If Gettleman said that Darnold was touched by the hand of God, those on that side would be pumping their fists in agreement. But since they didnít get the player they wanted, Gettleman is now a bungling idiot that talks too much.

I wanted a QB too, but there is a segment on this site that have lost their damned minds
RE: RE: RE: And again  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2018 8:11 pm : link
In comment 13964926 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13964893 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13964890 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


people care way too much about press conferences. We have a GM whoís a bit of an oddball comedian, yet we want to take everything he says as gospel? Makes no sense. He picked the best player in the draft, I couldnít care less what he said. Move on.



I'd be fine with this take if we held players to the same standard, but we don't. When players say something other than nothing at press conferences, people get bent out of shape about that.


The funny part about your post is that it is mostly (if not completely) the QB crowd that is taking an obvious joking statement and making this some huge deal. If Gettleman said that Darnold was touched by the hand of God, those on that side would be pumping their fists in agreement. But since they didnít get the player they wanted, Gettleman is now a bungling idiot that talks too much.

I wanted a QB too, but there is a segment on this site that have lost their damned minds


Even if you pushed the entire topic of the draft aside, I think he does like to work a room a bit too much. And why not, he learned at Ernie Accorsi's feet. Another guy who could have made a career out of public speaking.

It can be just as bad a thing as the GM that says nothing and avoids the media like a plague. Accorsi got bitten by his chatterbox nature.
Think itís more that people donít want to like him  
Bill L : 5/15/2018 8:16 pm : link
Maybe they didnít want him in the first place, maybe he made a decision or a ..ahem..pick...that they didnít like, so the seize upon any trivial piece of nothing and blow it up into an excuse to be pissed off and carp.
Seizing on a trivial piece of nothing  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2018 8:21 pm : link
is a specialty for some around here...
Having watched all of his press conferences  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2018 8:25 pm : link
To this point, I donít think itís impossible to see how he might rub people the wrong way, coupled with the fact that he came with the reputation of doing so in his last job as well.

But to your point, yeah, I think there is some pushback. There is a fraction of the membership here that is set on thinking that just because the last guy was fired that decisions going forward are the right ones and arenít worth discussing. When the team is way under .500 over the past five years, sure, any hire and any draft pick can be questioned. It might be a good hire or it might now. The team hasnít given reason for anyone to trust blindly.
RE: Having watched all of his press conferences  
BigBlueShock : 5/15/2018 8:27 pm : link
In comment 13964980 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
To this point, I donít think itís impossible to see how he might rub people the wrong way, coupled with the fact that he came with the reputation of doing so in his last job as well.

But to your point, yeah, I think there is some pushback. There is a fraction of the membership here that is set on thinking that just because the last guy was fired that decisions going forward are the right ones and arenít worth discussing. When the team is way under .500 over the past five years, sure, any hire and any draft pick can be questioned. It might be a good hire or it might now. The team hasnít given reason for anyone to trust blindly.

If thatís how you choose to go through life, have at it
I donít understand ďtrustĒ either  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2018 8:32 pm : link
I have no control over what happens, none of us do. I hope the Giants are good, thats about it.
Anything less than ROY  
The_Boss : 5/15/2018 9:00 pm : link
And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?
RE: Anything less than ROY  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2018 9:06 pm : link
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?


If he puts up 1,700 yards and 10 TDs and we only win 6 games, itís fair to assume that he isnít the problem.

Was Barkley drafted to save this franchise or to play his part and help his team succeed? Iím starting to think many here expect 16-0 or bust. It makes no damn sense the world some of you live in.
RE: Anything less than ROY  
BigBlueShock : 5/15/2018 9:07 pm : link
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?

Did football suddenly become an individual sport? We canít be happy with the player moving forward yet unhappy with the team results? When did this all happen? We have resorted to one single rookie leading a 3-13 team to the playoffs all by himself? Is this serious?
RE: RE: Anything less than ROY  
BigBlueShock : 5/15/2018 9:10 pm : link
In comment 13965051 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:


Quote:


And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?



If he puts up 1,700 yards and 10 TDs and we only win 6 games, itís fair to assume that he isnít the problem.

Was Barkley drafted to save this franchise or to play his part and help his team succeed? Iím starting to think many here expect 16-0 or bust. It makes no damn sense the world some of you live in.

It is becoming apparent that all these guys fully expect Darnold, Rosen and Allen to lead their teams to undefeated records this season.
RE: Anything less than ROY  
chopperhatch : 5/15/2018 9:13 pm : link
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?


Considering youre an Eagles fan, yea. Id be thrilled.

Eat a horse shit flavored dick you schmendrick.
RE: RE: Anything less than ROY  
The_Boss : 5/15/2018 9:17 pm : link
In comment 13965062 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:


Quote:


And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?



Considering youre an Eagles fan, yea. Id be thrilled.

Eat a horse shit flavored dick you schmendrick.


Iím no Eagle fan. Maybe one day your stupid ass will figure it out. Until then, go fuck your fist and find a cock to tickle your tonsils with.
RE: RE: Anything less than ROY  
BigBlueShock : 5/15/2018 9:35 pm : link
In comment 13965051 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:


Quote:


And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?



If he puts up 1,700 yards and 10 TDs and we only win 6 games, itís fair to assume that he isnít the problem.

Was Barkley drafted to save this franchise or to play his part and help his team succeed? Iím starting to think many here expect 16-0 or bust. It makes no damn sense the world some of you live in.

It really is amazing. So if Barkley puts up the numbers that The_Boss suggests and the Giants end up 7-9, it is ABSOLUTELY a bad pick! Never mind the 60000 reasons the season could have gone down the tubes. Maybe the defense sucks ass and they lose games by giving up 30 points per game? Maybe the OL still sucks balls? Maybe special teams continue to be an embarrassment?

Nope, doesnít matter. Barkley needs to lead this 3-13 team to the playoffs this season because he only signed a one year deal and his contributions end after this season. Unlike one of the QBs. Those guys would have led us to a Super Bowl this season, AND, the best part about drafting a QB rather than a RB is that QBs will actually be around after this season! No matter how awful they may end up, they get to sign longer rookie deals than RBs so that is awesome. So Barkley has to be the best player ever, but everyone else can suck because I wanted those other guys, damn it!
RE: Christian  
christian : 5/15/2018 9:50 pm : link
In comment 13964887 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
while you could very well be right, you can easily be wrong. Fortunes change on a dime in the NFL, happens every year. And 3-13 is pretty irrelevant for me. Injuries and a complete and utter disaster of a HC and GM played the biggest role there. Itís amazing what new leadership does, happens often.

Weíve got our first legit LT and RB in ages, that alone would be a great offseason but we also upgraded at LB and likely LG right out of the gates. Add in a healthy Beckham and you have a really good foundation with 2 new coaches who seem to be ahead of the curve with their respective units.

Donít know why anyone wouldnít be optimistic.


I won't be shocked if the team is better, but I will be shocked if they are a championship-type team in the next 2 years. Frankly, I don't believe the quarterback play will be good enough to carry the team, and don't believe the talent will be there to carry him.

This has been my take since before the draft.

I'm not staking any claims on my opinion. Just how I feel.

I would have started fresh with a new QB, because I think the team has all the markings of a really bad team.

New coach, new system, and yes some better players. But I don't think it's 8 games better. I think Barkley is a complete stud, and a tremendous kid. And I think when there is a better QB he has a chance to win a ring.
I expect one thing from Barkley  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/15/2018 9:57 pm : link
To be the murderous underneath receiver like Steve Smith driving DCs nuts and requiring triple coverage out of frustration. The 2008 Giants offense was the best Giants offense I have seen and we need to get back to it.
RE: RE: Christian  
BigBlueShock : 5/15/2018 10:06 pm : link
In comment 13965105 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 13964887 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


while you could very well be right, you can easily be wrong. Fortunes change on a dime in the NFL, happens every year. And 3-13 is pretty irrelevant for me. Injuries and a complete and utter disaster of a HC and GM played the biggest role there. Itís amazing what new leadership does, happens often.

Weíve got our first legit LT and RB in ages, that alone would be a great offseason but we also upgraded at LB and likely LG right out of the gates. Add in a healthy Beckham and you have a really good foundation with 2 new coaches who seem to be ahead of the curve with their respective units.

Donít know why anyone wouldnít be optimistic.



I won't be shocked if the team is better, but I will be shocked if they are a championship-type team in the next 2 years. Frankly, I don't believe the quarterback play will be good enough to carry the team, and don't believe the talent will be there to carry him.

This has been my take since before the draft.

I'm not staking any claims on my opinion. Just how I feel.

I would have started fresh with a new QB, because I think the team has all the markings of a really bad team.

New coach, new system, and yes some better players. But I don't think it's 8 games better. I think Barkley is a complete stud, and a tremendous kid. And I think when there is a better QB he has a chance to win a ring.

So whoís your QB? You gonna pick one or are you just gonna take the popular choice around here of picking them all, and seeing which one turns out the best so you can say ď I told you! We should have drafted him!Ē?

Maybe the guy the Giants picked (if they went tat route)turns out to be dog shit? Would you be happy just because they folded to the masses and picked a QB that they didnít believe in just because the mass hysteria from the fans said they had to take one?
RE: RE: RE: Christian  
christian : 5/15/2018 10:31 pm : link
BigBlueShock said:
Quote:


So whoís your QB? You gonna pick one or are you just gonna take the popular choice around here of picking them all, and seeing which one turns out the best so you can say ď I told you! We should have drafted him!Ē?

Maybe the guy the Giants picked (if they went tat route)turns out to be dog shit? Would you be happy just because they folded to the masses and picked a QB that they didnít believe in just because the mass hysteria from the fans said they had to take one?


Just scroll up champ:

Quote:


..
christian : 7:34 pm : link : reply
I'll go on record to say I wanted Darnold, and believe the Jets will win a playoff game before the Giants.

...

I'll be absolutely thrilled if I'm wrong. I love when the Giants are good, and I don't care much how and with whom.

RE: Eric are you kidding me?  
Anakim : 5/15/2018 10:55 pm : link
In comment 13964504 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
She knows as much about football as Anakim does. She was the in play baseball announcer for Cardinals baseball games not football games before she landed this gig.

Not worried about hyping him, the kid will have no issue dealing with it. I expect him to fall within the top 5 RB's in the league. I would love 8 to 10 rushing Td's and 4 receiving td's and 1,300 rushing yards for the year. He does that he will meet all the hype and Eli will look like he is 30 again.


I don't know who the hell you are, but fuck you
A few things  
WillVAB : 5/15/2018 11:52 pm : link
DG said more than just one comment about Barkley. The guy was glowing about Barkley well before the draft. I donít have a problem w DGís pressers, but this was a pivotal draft for the franchise. He needs to be right about Barkley.

Barkleyís success or failure isnít really about a bright line stats benchmark. Itís about how successful or impactful he is relative to the backs in the class and the other players the Giants couldíve drafted.
If the o line  
Rolyrock : 5/16/2018 2:11 am : link
Doesn't block we ain't going to be that much better.
RE: Anything less than ROY  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/16/2018 3:08 am : link
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?


This team has upgraded almost all the critical components to having a championship contending team. From coaching to system to personnel. I am quite excited for the next couple of years.
I would  
St. Jimmy : 5/16/2018 5:41 am : link
say within three years there has to be no debate over who the best RB in 2018 NFL Draft. Hopefully that is answered this year but the offensive line will play a factor in that. That better be fixed within a season or two.
RE: A few things  
Bill L : 5/16/2018 7:09 am : link
In comment 13965184 WillVAB said:
Quote:
DG said more than just one comment about Barkley. The guy was glowing about Barkley well before the draft. I donít have a problem w DGís pressers, but this was a pivotal draft for the franchise. He needs to be right about Barkley.

Barkleyís success or failure isnít really about a bright line stats benchmark. Itís about how successful or impactful he is relative to the backs in the class and the other players the Giants couldíve drafted.

No. Only one thing matter; just one. Is the team better set for sustained winning.
It's so damn funny.....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 7:26 am : link
If we had taken a QB, do you think the guys that wanted Barkley wouldn't be on board, and hopeful that he turned out great? No, pretty much everybody would have been hopeful that he was the guy to take the reigns from Eli in a year or two, because Eli's career is in fact winding down.

But this.... This ongoing reaction... I said several times that I was going to enjoy the freak out if we passed on a QB, but this was beyond my imagination. I feel like some of you have gone off the deep end with this. You need to get yourselves in check. It's getting a little embarrassing.

RE: It's so damn funny.....  
christian : 5/16/2018 7:50 am : link
In comment 13965240 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
If we had taken a QB, do you think the guys that wanted Barkley wouldn't be on board, and hopeful that he turned out great? No, pretty much everybody would have been hopeful that he was the guy to take the reigns from Eli in a year or two, because Eli's career is in fact winding down.

But this.... This ongoing reaction... I said several times that I was going to enjoy the freak out if we passed on a QB, but this was beyond my imagination. I feel like some of you have gone off the deep end with this. You need to get yourselves in check. It's getting a little embarrassing.



Who on this thread is going off the deep end? Seems like a generally benign conversation and most folks are being consistent with their opinions pre and post draft.
Barkley changes our offense, demands much attention  
SGMen : 5/16/2018 7:55 am : link
First, we've got to stay healthy to have any hope of having a winning record.
Second, if the OL holds up, well, Barkley will have an outstanding season.

My take is he'll run for 4.8+ ypc; 70 catches for 600+ yards; and, he'll protect Eli very well.

I also agree that over-hyping a player is not a good idea.
RE: It's so damn funny.....  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/16/2018 8:12 am : link
In comment 13965240 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
If we had taken a QB, do you think the guys that wanted Barkley wouldn't be on board, and hopeful that he turned out great? No, pretty much everybody would have been hopeful that he was the guy to take the reigns from Eli in a year or two, because Eli's career is in fact winding down.

But this.... This ongoing reaction... I said several times that I was going to enjoy the freak out if we passed on a QB, but this was beyond my imagination. I feel like some of you have gone off the deep end with this. You need to get yourselves in check. It's getting a little embarrassing.


Britt, for every poster that has taken a reasonable approach (particularly post-draft), there are still some who were anti-QB who have asked where all the pro-QB posters are now, asking if they have changed their tune or disappeared, etc.? Several posters (and this has been my feeling) engaged in the pre-draft debates because it was an open question at the time and we were discussing what we thought the Giants should/would/could do. Now that the draft is over, it's not productive to continue to pound the drum of whether you got the players you wanted (or didn't) in the draft, although some posters choose to do exactly that.

There are some fans that wanted a QB, but will root enthusiastically for Barkley to be an absolute superstar. There are some that wanted a QB and will look for excuses to be able to puff out their chest and say they were right all along. There are some fans who will root for every single player on the team with no room for criticism. There are some who will look to criticize every single player on the roster. There are some fans who trust Gettleman's judgment implicitly. There are some who are waiting to pounce on Gettleman as an extension and example of some sort of Mara cronyism.

The only universal truth of BBI, IMO, is that there is no way to bucket any particular category of posters together.
Even funnier, is that it takes like one poster who indicates he will  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 8:12 am : link
disappointed in the pick unless Barkley sets all-time rookie RB records (which is comical in itself), and it sets off the entire brigade of usual folks to scream...

- all the Eli-haters think Barkley stinks
- can't believe all the guys that still want a QB
- you all think Darnold is going to go undefeated
- this "negative reaction" is beyond my imagination
- Gettleman talks to God about his picks
- its amazing how they all want the Giants to fail

the BBI sewing-circle...
RE: Barkley changes our offense, demands much attention  
christian : 5/16/2018 8:15 am : link
In comment 13965252 SGMen said:
Quote:
First, we've got to stay healthy to have any hope of having a winning record.
Second, if the OL holds up, well, Barkley will have an outstanding season.

My take is he'll run for 4.8+ ypc; 70 catches for 600+ yards; and, he'll protect Eli very well.

I also agree that over-hyping a player is not a good idea.


Underrated quality will be pass protection.

I'm not convinced the offense line has turned the corner. I don't believe Omameh is much of an upgrade over Jerry and I won't be surprised if Flowers starts at RT.

If Jerry, Flowers, and Jones are 3 of the best 5 and out there playing, I am not going to be down on Barkley if his numbers aren't off the charts.
Donít ask me about...  
Chris in Philly : 5/16/2018 8:25 am : link
my business, Kay.

The subtext is there...  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 8:29 am : link
clearly.
I really wish people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 8:37 am : link
would have a better understanding of Gettleman's time in Carolina:

Quote:
Having watched all of his press conferences
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2018 8:25 pm : link : reply
To this point, I donít think itís impossible to see how he might rub people the wrong way, coupled with the fact that he came with the reputation of doing so in his last job as well.


He really didn't have the reputation of rubbing people the wrong way in Carolina. The guys who didn't like him were the ones he cut or traded. He worked in an organization that had a drunk for a GM before him who put them in a salary cap mess (and has them headed there again), and an owner who has terrible lapses in judgement since his heart transplant years ago.

Gettleman still has one of the best lines I've heard from a GM. When he was fired for looking at what to do with Thomas Davis and Olsen (and that didn't mean he was going to trade or release them - he was just exploring the options), Richardson told him to just do his job. Gettleman told him "You aren't letting me do my job".

That's the kind of attitude I want here.
RE: RE: It's so damn funny.....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 8:43 am : link
In comment 13965262 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13965240 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


If we had taken a QB, do you think the guys that wanted Barkley wouldn't be on board, and hopeful that he turned out great? No, pretty much everybody would have been hopeful that he was the guy to take the reigns from Eli in a year or two, because Eli's career is in fact winding down.

But this.... This ongoing reaction... I said several times that I was going to enjoy the freak out if we passed on a QB, but this was beyond my imagination. I feel like some of you have gone off the deep end with this. You need to get yourselves in check. It's getting a little embarrassing.




Britt, for every poster that has taken a reasonable approach (particularly post-draft), there are still some who were anti-QB who have asked where all the pro-QB posters are now, asking if they have changed their tune or disappeared, etc.? Several posters (and this has been my feeling) engaged in the pre-draft debates because it was an open question at the time and we were discussing what we thought the Giants should/would/could do. Now that the draft is over, it's not productive to continue to pound the drum of whether you got the players you wanted (or didn't) in the draft, although some posters choose to do exactly that.

There are some fans that wanted a QB, but will root enthusiastically for Barkley to be an absolute superstar. There are some that wanted a QB and will look for excuses to be able to puff out their chest and say they were right all along. There are some fans who will root for every single player on the team with no room for criticism. There are some who will look to criticize every single player on the roster. There are some fans who trust Gettleman's judgment implicitly. There are some who are waiting to pounce on Gettleman as an extension and example of some sort of Mara cronyism.

The only universal truth of BBI, IMO, is that there is no way to bucket any particular category of posters together.


Agree with that. It just seems that the bolded, while not an incredibly large contingent, are the most vocal and therefore get the most attention... whereas the unbolded in your description are more likely to just do this:

RE: RE: Having watched all of his press conferences  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/16/2018 9:09 am : link
In comment 13964986 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13964980 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


To this point, I donít think itís impossible to see how he might rub people the wrong way, coupled with the fact that he came with the reputation of doing so in his last job as well.

But to your point, yeah, I think there is some pushback. There is a fraction of the membership here that is set on thinking that just because the last guy was fired that decisions going forward are the right ones and arenít worth discussing. When the team is way under .500 over the past five years, sure, any hire and any draft pick can be questioned. It might be a good hire or it might now. The team hasnít given reason for anyone to trust blindly.


If thatís how you choose to go through life, have at it


It's not how I go through life. It's just how I look at a football team that's been bad for half a decade. There's a big difference between opting for a wait and see approach and just assuming everything is going to be okay. There is a lot that has to be figured out with this ball club.
My opinion is that we have to wait for a body of work....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 9:12 am : link
before discussing whether things were the right move or not. Give the new guys a chance. This is the first true housecleaning in a decade, as well.

That's what people wanted, right? A housecleaning? You got it. Now we just have to sit back and see what happens.
Agree, we need to wait and see  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 9:17 am : link
if this housecleaning was enough.
RE: Anything less than ROY  
djm : 5/16/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?


Just stop.
RE: RE: Some of you really are miserable  
djm : 5/16/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 13964888 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13964865 djm said:


Quote:


Youíre going to really hold gettleman to those comments he made about Hall of fame and touched by god or whatever... and what, if Barkely tweaks a hammy or turns an ankle or merely plays at a very good slightly under elite Level his first 20 games or so, then what? Pitchforks and constant fucking bitching. And why? Because the GM loved the player and told the fan base he loved the player?

Heís a special fucking talent. The GM, EVERY GM agrees. So he said Barkley is a blessed human being!! Shut the fuck up and hope for the best and enjoy it. Some of you have placed a bullseye on the GM because he told the fans the truth?



He's a paid professional speaking as a representative for a his franchise at a press conference. It's an entirely different scenario than some knucklehead on BBI declaring Barkley an instant hall of famer because football fans act like football fans. There's no situation where the people who actually have their finger on the big red button should be acting like the average fan.

Also, take a pill. It's a discussion board. If you're sick of talking about a particular topic go take a walk.


So he shouldn't tell everyone that he loves the player's potential and skill set? WTF are you talking about?

I'm sick of miserable fans that need to get mad at something, anything..don't like it? Stop being miserable.
I just don't understand  
djm : 5/16/2018 10:11 am : link
what is wrong with a GM saying he loves the player he drafted. Here's the thing, his comments won't make a fucking difference in the grand scheme of things. The only people impacted will be the fans and writers.

Barkley will be great if he stays healthy. He won't fail because the GM told everyone that he's a special talent and it's not unprofessional to say what he said, not in the least. It's childish to get worked up over those comments.
do some of you  
djm : 5/16/2018 10:21 am : link
really need it spelled out for you? When a player is picked in the top five of a deep NFL draft, the GM and team LOVE that player. They cautiously hope that player is a legend after a ten year career. So he said it....out loud....Get a fucking grip.
get a fucking grip...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/16/2018 10:46 am : link
...well stated.

Pollyanna rules, everyone else is dead to me.

The Giants may have drafted the best 2 players in the draft....
...or not.

~
.  
arcarsenal : 5/16/2018 11:17 am : link
I don't think it's necessarily just the team.

I think a lot of fans are putting him in a spot where he's probably doomed just because they wanted a QB.

So, what you hear those fans say are things like "this guy better be the best RB in football right away otherwise it's a bad pick!"

All types of stuff like that.

"He better have 2k+ scrimmage yards as a rookie!"

Saquon is coming into this where he almost has to be perfect because anything less will be considered disappointing and that's not his doing at all. So, that kinda sucks. But - it comes with the territory of being selected this high.
The 'freak-out' over not taking a QB  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:24 am : link
is nothing compared to the freak-out when Eli got benched for a game. Talk about embarrassing..
RE: The 'freak-out' over not taking a QB  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:25 am : link
In comment 13965515 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
is nothing compared to the freak-out when Eli got benched for a game. Talk about embarrassing..


Here's Mr. QB is a stone cold lock at 2, himself. Deflect, deflect, deflect. I'm enjoying your squirming.
RE: RE: The 'freak-out' over not taking a QB  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:26 am : link
In comment 13965520 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13965515 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


is nothing compared to the freak-out when Eli got benched for a game. Talk about embarrassing..



Here's Mr. QB is a stone cold lock at 2, himself. Deflect, deflect, deflect. I'm enjoying your squirming.


Your reading comprehension sucks, bro.

But at least you don't see me starting threads claiming I'm a bigger fan of a particular player than the actual team when my favorite player gets benched for a game. Now *that* was embarrassing.
Yea Dave...  
Chris684 : 5/16/2018 11:28 am : link
There was no problem with a coach with Ben McAdoo's resume benching and publicly embarrassing a QB with Eli Manning's resume.

None at all.

By the way, weren't you one of the "Eli throws high slants and gets Beckham hurt" guys?
Pyscho Chris.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:30 am : link
I thought it was the wrong move, too. Difference is I didn't cry and whine myself to sleep every night that week. I didn't claim I was a bigger fan of the player than the team in a thread or anything of that ilk.
Dave is a simp,  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:30 am : link
don't mind him. Just enjoy his constant backtracking, because he's almost always wrong, although he's aggressive about it.
And I have no idea what you're talking about with Beckham and Eli.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:31 am : link
Obviously, he didn't do it on purpose. But it happened. So what?
Dave is what we call a drive by poster....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:31 am : link
rarely anything of substance, hardly ever backs up his opinion with any sort of logic or reason, just piggybacks off of others and takes shots at posters and tries to distract from just how awful his posts are.

He's been called on it many times by many posters.
Just the response I expected.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:32 am : link
Imagine portraying yourself as some kind of cool guy on here based on posts. The BBI King. The same guy who thought Domenik Hixon would be a fine replacement for Plaxico Burress! The BBI King. He's always right! Clown.
Come on guys  
UConn4523 : 5/16/2018 11:32 am : link
can we get back to Barkley being not worth it unless he has 3,000 yards and 30 TDs his rookie year?
Long live the king.  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:38 am : link
.
I continually..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 11:44 am : link
find it interesting that fans who were embarrassed by McAdoo, who hated the way he handled the eli situation and thought he was a trainwreck of a coach are considered more of a fan of a player than the organization.

To me, McAdoo was the biggest problem with the team last year. By a wide margin. He lost the team, had several defensive players rebel and shit on the franchise QB.

Recognizing those points under the heading of "Eli Apologist" seems like a lot of horseshit. It should be more under the heading of "McAdoo Hater".
RE: I continually..  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 13965544 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
find it interesting that fans who were embarrassed by McAdoo, who hated the way he handled the eli situation and thought he was a trainwreck of a coach are considered more of a fan of a player than the organization.

To me, McAdoo was the biggest problem with the team last year. By a wide margin. He lost the team, had several defensive players rebel and shit on the franchise QB.

Recognizing those points under the heading of "Eli Apologist" seems like a lot of horseshit. It should be more under the heading of "McAdoo Hater".


Maybe because that one person in particular even created a thread claiming he was a bigger fan of the player than the actual team, and that he was proud of it?
Can you please link this thread that you're referring to?  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:52 am : link
I'm not saying I didn't post it, but I'm having trouble remembering this thread.
I just wish the "QB at #2" crowd  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 11:52 am : link
would name one guy -- be it Darnold, Rosen, or Allen -- who was the right choice at #2. The Giants had to send a NAME to the podium, not a position.

Which NAME should they have sent instead of Saquon Barkley?

Once we have that name on record, we can all sit back and watch his Hall of Fame career unfold, while Barkely, on the other hand, reveals himself to be no more than a guy the Giants could have "easily" gotten in the fourth or fifth round.
RE: I just wish the  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:53 am : link
In comment 13965558 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
would name one guy -- be it Darnold, Rosen, or Allen -- who was the right choice at #2. The Giants had to send a NAME to the podium, not a position.

Which NAME should they have sent instead of Saquon Barkley?

Once we have that name on record, we can all sit back and watch his Hall of Fame career unfold, while Barkely, on the other hand, reveals himself to be no more than a guy the Giants could have "easily" gotten in the fourth or fifth round.


Nah. They could've picked any of Rosen, Allen, or Darnold. They were available at 2.
"With the second pick in the 2018 NFL Draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:06 pm : link
the New York Giants select...any of Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, or Sam Darnold."
Well, yeah,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:08 pm : link
they could have picked any of the three.
Which one should they have taken?  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:09 pm : link
.
It'll  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 12:10 pm : link
be funny to see people latch on to any of the 3 as "misses" if they turn out serviceable, even if Barkley is a stud.

Sadly, if have a feeling some posters will actually want to look at the draft as a miss.

Probably the same that are throwing shade at posters for being fans of players instead of the team.

I find that ironically contradictory, but they probably won't.
RE: Which one should they have taken?  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13965588 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
.


I would have been happy with either of Darnold or Rosen.
RE: It'll  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13965589 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
be funny to see people latch on to any of the 3 as "misses" if they turn out serviceable, even if Barkley is a stud.

Sadly, if have a feeling some posters will actually want to look at the draft as a miss.

Probably the same that are throwing shade at posters for being fans of players instead of the team.

I find that ironically contradictory, but they probably won't.


I'm not accusing anyone of saying it. They said it themselves.
They could have gotten two of them at 7 and 10, also....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 12:12 pm : link
so I guess that illustrates that they only way to get a "franchise QB" isn't exclusively to pick in the top 5, doesn't it.

Wasn't that the argument? That we had to take a QB because when would be ever pick in the Top 5 again?
RE: RE: Which one should they have taken?  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13965590 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965588 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


.



I would have been happy with either of Darnold or Rosen.

But if you had to pick one (as the Giants had to)...
RE: RE: It'll  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13965591 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965589 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


be funny to see people latch on to any of the 3 as "misses" if they turn out serviceable, even if Barkley is a stud.

Sadly, if have a feeling some posters will actually want to look at the draft as a miss.

Probably the same that are throwing shade at posters for being fans of players instead of the team.

I find that ironically contradictory, but they probably won't.



I'm not accusing anyone of saying it. They said it themselves.


Still waiting on this thread. Please post it? I'm having a hard time believing that I said specifically "I"m a bigger Eli fan than I am Giants fan". Please post where I said that, and I'll stand corrected. I've posted drunk several times on BBI over the years, especially on game day, so I wouldn't be surprised. But I'd still like to see it.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/16/2018 12:14 pm : link
I'm just glad that Dave Gettleman didn't go into the draft with the same mindset a lot of fans had.

Otherwise we would have just force-picked a player we didn't love simply because he's a QB.

Losing strategy.
RE: RE: RE: It'll  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13965598 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13965591 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13965589 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


be funny to see people latch on to any of the 3 as "misses" if they turn out serviceable, even if Barkley is a stud.

Sadly, if have a feeling some posters will actually want to look at the draft as a miss.

Probably the same that are throwing shade at posters for being fans of players instead of the team.

I find that ironically contradictory, but they probably won't.



I'm not accusing anyone of saying it. They said it themselves.



Still waiting on this thread. Please post it? I'm having a hard time believing that I said specifically "I"m a bigger Eli fan than I am Giants fan". Please post where I said that, and I'll stand corrected. I've posted drunk several times on BBI over the years, especially on game day, so I wouldn't be surprised. But I'd still like to see it.


You want me to waste time looking for a thread of yours from 6-7 months ago?
Ummm, yes.  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 12:17 pm : link
If you're going to state that I said something with absolute certainty, I expect you to produce the quote.
In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:19 pm : link
the Chiefs "got a QB" at #7. Given that loaded QB class, it seems smart, right?

Except the name they sent to the podium was Todd Blackledge.

The pick has to be more than just the right position. It's gotta be the right name, too.
RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13965604 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
the Chiefs "got a QB" at #7. Given that loaded QB class, it seems smart, right?

Except the name they sent to the podium was Todd Blackledge.

The pick has to be more than just the right position. It's gotta be the right name, too.


And we don't know that it isn't. Let's see how these guys turn out over the next few years.
RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13965607 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965604 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


the Chiefs "got a QB" at #7. Given that loaded QB class, it seems smart, right?

Except the name they sent to the podium was Todd Blackledge.

The pick has to be more than just the right position. It's gotta be the right name, too.



And we don't know that it isn't. Let's see how these guys turn out over the next few years.

Exactly. We have to see how all of these guys turn out.

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.
The past irrelevant  
Chris684 : 5/16/2018 12:26 pm : link
Saquon Barkley was far and away the best available prospect in this whole draft.

Will it play out that way? No one can be sure. Doesnt change the decision.

Darnold had an underwhelming season. The Jets wanted Mayfield more.

Rosen is an asshole as evidenced by his calling out those picked before him as "mistakes" and also comes with a nice concussion history. Makes perfect sense that a Giants fan who bitches about Eli Manning would want a guy who is an asshole and has injury issues.
See....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 12:27 pm : link
Like when I said you said we were going to take a QB with absolute certainty, I can produce the quote:

Quote:
It literally doesn't matter.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:32 pm : link
He's going to be 37 for next season and we're picking very high in the upcoming draft with a bunch of good QBs in this years draft. They're picking a QB, and even that QB doesn't start next year, he's still getting picked in this year's draft.


Quote:
They're drafting a QB.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:43 pm : link


Quote:
Oh, and he'll sit a year at most, hate to be the bearer of even more bad news for you


See how that works? When you can't do that, there's this little thing in law called libel. Luckily for you, BBI is not a court of law.

They're taking a QB 12/17/17 - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13965612 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13965607 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13965604 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


the Chiefs "got a QB" at #7. Given that loaded QB class, it seems smart, right?

Except the name they sent to the podium was Todd Blackledge.

The pick has to be more than just the right position. It's gotta be the right name, too.



And we don't know that it isn't. Let's see how these guys turn out over the next few years.


Exactly. We have to see how all of these guys turn out.

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.


If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.
RE: See....  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13965618 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Like when I said you said we were going to take a QB with absolute certainty, I can produce the quote:



Quote:


It literally doesn't matter.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:32 pm : link
He's going to be 37 for next season and we're picking very high in the upcoming draft with a bunch of good QBs in this years draft. They're picking a QB, and even that QB doesn't start next year, he's still getting picked in this year's draft.





Quote:


They're drafting a QB.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:43 pm : link





Quote:


Oh, and he'll sit a year at most, hate to be the bearer of even more bad news for you



See how that works? When you can't do that, there's this little thing in law called libel. Luckily for you, BBI is not a court of law. They're taking a QB 12/17/17 - ( New Window )


2 things:

1) I also said quite a few times after that, that I think they should take a QB and that they might not and I wouldn't agree with it.

2) They did draft a QB, just not in the 1st round.
RE: RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13965622 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965612 Mr. Bungle said:

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.



If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.

Even after Eric Dickerson set rookie rushing records his first season?

(Which I am NOT predicting Barkley will do!)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13965635 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13965622 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13965612 Mr. Bungle said:

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.



If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.


Even after Eric Dickerson set rookie rushing records his first season?

(Which I am NOT predicting Barkley will do!)


Damn, he was great.

But if one of the QBs I can take is Dan Marino, then yes.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 12:35 pm : link
the point is that you can be happy whether it was Dickerson or Marino.

I hope people keep that in mind when they start complaining after Darnold has his first 2 TD game, even if Barkley is leading the league in rushing.
RE: I think..  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13965640 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the point is that you can be happy whether it was Dickerson or Marino.

I hope people keep that in mind when they start complaining after Darnold has his first 2 TD game, even if Barkley is leading the league in rushing.


Yeah. Nevermind stats, though, I think it has more to do with stuff like playoff appearances. If, for example,a few years from now, the Jets are making the postseason every year, and the Giants aren't, that could be a problem. If Webb and Lauletta turnout to not be the next QB in a couple of years and both bomb, and we're looking for a QB for those years, that would be a problem.

But if the Jets (or Cards) are still the same teams that they've been, and the Giants find their next franchise QB (whether it be Webb/Lauletta, or someone else) rather quickly, that would be the preferred scenario, obviously.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13965636 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965635 Mr. Bungle said:

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.



If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.


Even after Eric Dickerson set rookie rushing records his first season?

(Which I am NOT predicting Barkley will do!)



Damn, he was great.

But if one of the QBs I can take is Dan Marino, then yes.

Except you're using hindsight with Marino. He was taken 27th overall in that 1st round. FIVE quarterbacks were taken ahead of him, including the aforementioned Blackledge, Ken O'Brien (lol Jets), and Tony Eason. The way people view Marino now as a QB god is not the same as how they viewed him as a prospect.

That's why it's important to specify now -- before any of these careers unfold -- which name you would have sent to the podium, if you were in that position.
I'm not sure why people LOVE Darnold so much...  
Chris684 : 5/16/2018 12:43 pm : link
There is a lot to like, sure, but I don't think the majority of NFL scouts and decision makers felt the way some at BBI did/do.

What we know after the draft.

Cleveland (with Dorsey) a more capable GM than they've had in awhile passed.

The Jets plan A was Mayfield, not Darnold.

The Colts sat out the QBs entirely with all of Luck's arm issues.

Elway with only Keenum on his roster and an arm's length away from a trade up was fine to sit out the QBs.

Mayock said he saw no "Luck or Wentz" in this draft.

Darnold spent the lowest % of snaps from under center.

What slam dunk am I missing with Darnold or any of these guys?
RE: See....  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/16/2018 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13965618 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Like when I said you said we were going to take a QB with absolute certainty, I can produce the quote:



Quote:


It literally doesn't matter.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:32 pm : link
He's going to be 37 for next season and we're picking very high in the upcoming draft with a bunch of good QBs in this years draft. They're picking a QB, and even that QB doesn't start next year, he's still getting picked in this year's draft.





Quote:


They're drafting a QB.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:43 pm : link





Quote:


Oh, and he'll sit a year at most, hate to be the bearer of even more bad news for you



See how that works? When you can't do that, there's this little thing in law called libel. Luckily for you, BBI is not a court of law. They're taking a QB 12/17/17 - ( New Window )

Those posts wound up being incorrect, but how are they libelous in any way?
I said that posting that somebody said something definitively  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 1:54 pm : link
without producing the actual quote, was. That was in response to Dave saying that I started a thread that stated "I am a bigger fan of Eli Manning than I am of the Giants".

He said it wasn't on him to produce the quote/thread where I said that, even though he stated numerous times on this thread that I had in fact said that.

I said in law, that would be described as libel. Then I proceeded to show him how easy it was to back something up with a quote. His own.
RE: Well, yeah,  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13965587 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
they could have picked any of the three.


I was always on the Josh Rosen bandwagon. I didn't love some of his comments immediately before and after the draft, but accepted that he was frustrated with all of the extra attention on him for non-football related issues and his drop in the draft that may have related to those issues. That said, I always felt that if the Browns had taken Darnold at #1, Rosen would have gone to the Jets at #3. And if the Giants had gone QB, they most likely would have taken Darnold or Rosen--Rosen having been my choice, but I wouldn't have been upset with Darnold if he was available. Ultimately, if either Mayfield wasn't drafted #1 or if the Giants had taken a QB at #2, Rosen probably would have gone #3. So, for what it's worth, Rosen was my preferred pick.

But that said, I have to agree with all of those who said that the draft is over. The Giants picked Barkley. No point in continuing to voice disagreement with that choice. At this point, you just hope that Barkley can be the type of transcendent player and make the type of impact on the team that the Giants seem to believe.

I do think that the Giants front office (really just Gettleman, I have no problem with Shurmer's comments) has fed into the media over-hyping of Barkley, setting extraordinarily high standards, with the "touched by the hand of God" type comments. I think the standards the Giants and the media have set for him exceed those of a typical #2 overall pick. They seem to be higher than the standards that were set for Reggie Bush coming out of college, and I have a hard time seeing Barkley as a better college running back than Reggie Bush. A lot of these expectations seem to be based on the combination of his on-field college production and his combine numbers.

I'm not sure he needs to meet some of the absurd expectations to be a good draft pick, but he probably needs to be a Hall of Fame running back in order to justify the pick over Rosen or Darnold.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13965646 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13965636 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13965635 Mr. Bungle said:

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.



If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.


Even after Eric Dickerson set rookie rushing records his first season?

(Which I am NOT predicting Barkley will do!)



Damn, he was great.

But if one of the QBs I can take is Dan Marino, then yes.


Except you're using hindsight with Marino. He was taken 27th overall in that 1st round. FIVE quarterbacks were taken ahead of him, including the aforementioned Blackledge, Ken O'Brien (lol Jets), and Tony Eason. The way people view Marino now as a QB god is not the same as how they viewed him as a prospect.

That's why it's important to specify now -- before any of these careers unfold -- which name you would have sent to the podium, if you were in that position.


I think outside of Elway, Marino was generally seen as the next best QB in the class and a potential star. He had off the field baggage though, concerns that he was too much of a partier and cocaine rumors. That seemed to be why he fell below O'Brien and others.
...  
Mr. Nickels : 5/16/2018 2:05 pm : link
Wait..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 2:13 pm : link
you have a har time seeing Barkley as a better college back than Bush??

Really?

Bush always seemed like a glorified 3rd down back.
RE: RE: Well, yeah,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13965755 Danny80 said:
Quote:
A lot of these expectations seem to be based on the combination of his on-field college production and his combine numbers.


What should they be based on?

Quote:
he probably needs to be a Hall of Fame running back in order to justify the pick over Rosen or Darnold.


Even if Rosen and Darnold bust?
I could go back and find the thread if I wanted,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 2:26 pm : link
but I have no desire to. Find a thread from over a half-year ago about a poster I don't care for? How much of a loser would I have to go back and a thread made by him? If someone doesn't want to believe me, then don't. No hair off my back.
I got  
Glover : 5/16/2018 2:29 pm : link
275 carries for 1200 yards, and 45 catches for 400 yards.
RE: I could go back and find the thread if I wanted,  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13965786 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
but I have no desire to. Find a thread from over a half-year ago about a poster I don't care for? How much of a loser would I have to go back and a thread made by him? If someone doesn't want to believe me, then don't. No hair off my back.


Ha, don't want to find a thread from a half a year ago but bring up a Hixon vs. Plaxico thread I made in 2008?

You continue to be hilarious entertainment. Keep doing you, Dave.
RE: I just wish the  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13965558 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
would name one guy -- be it Darnold, Rosen, or Allen -- who was the right choice at #2. The Giants had to send a NAME to the podium, not a position.

Which NAME should they have sent instead of Saquon Barkley?

Once we have that name on record, we can all sit back and watch his Hall of Fame career unfold, while Barkely, on the other hand, reveals himself to be no more than a guy the Giants could have "easily" gotten in the fourth or fifth round.


bungle - there were plenty of pre-draft polls taken on BBI if you need to revisit who wanted to who. I think we all kind of get your play here anyway to shrink the odds to a head-to-head argument. So feel free to sit back now.

I was gunning for Rosen myself, but definitely wanted Gettleman to get out of that #2 spot if he wasn't going QB. DG didn't do either, but getting Barkley should be great.
I wanted Rosen, too...  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 2:38 pm : link
for no other reason than he was the only one from a pro style offense, and not a spread offense. And even then he still had his red flags.
He sure sounded like a prick in the interview after being drafted  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 2:44 pm : link
I think he was going for the "chip on his shoulder" goo-guy look, but it only came off as a prick...
** good-guy  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 2:45 pm : link
.
RE: He sure sounded like a prick in the interview after being drafted  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13965819 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
I think he was going for the "chip on his shoulder" goo-guy look, but it only came off as a prick...


And to that point.... He slipped to ten. Not top five, but ten.

That goes to show, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, if you consider Rosen a "top franchise QB", he's proof that they're available outside the top 5.

The Giants picked at 9 and 10 the previous two drafts. Prior to that, they were in the low to mid teens several years before that.

Bottom line, this wasn't a once in a decade opportunity to get a QB. We didn't have to take one because we were picking at 2. They fall all the time.
This was never about draft position....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 2:49 pm : link
it was about conviction. The Giants didn't have it.
Don't disagree that Rosen fell, or went when a team "valued" him  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 2:54 pm : link
but that doesn't mean it might not be harder to get the next QB the Giants have interest in during a future draft (if they go that route)

QBs don't fall all the time, and it could cost us a lot to secure one.

Possibly. Or maybe not if your view that the league is changing on that front is correct...
The Jets didnít want mayfield over darnold  
dep026 : 5/16/2018 3:25 pm : link
They were settled into taking him cause they thought darnold was going 1.

Read the SI feature by King and it breaks down the draft process for the Jets. They were floored darnold fell.
Right now I subscribe to the idea that the NFL is changing  
UConn4523 : 5/16/2018 3:47 pm : link
QBs will either be A. Easier to come by than in the past or B. Can win with less talent at QB because of evolving systems and better coaching. Or a combination of both. Itís just interesting that all these years later the best QBs in the NFL still have the last names of Brady, Rodgers, Brees. There are others that can get there but I see a much more even playing field if those 3 retired tomorrow. It would be Wilson, a freshly injured Wentz, Goff whose had 1 good season, and then what? Stafford and Matt Ryan?

Time will tell but I think there will be a wake up call on how teams handle the position sooner rather than later.
I'm late to this party...  
bw in dc : 5/16/2018 3:55 pm : link
but indeed Barkley is extremely over-hyped - from the media, to fans, BBI, and, of course, Jints Central.

When you have Gettleman deifying Barkley immediately after the draft that sets the tone right there. It was almost like DG was trying to convince himself that he made the right pick. I fail to recall any GM ever coming out with such strong, bizarre words. I think this was one of the strangest things I have seen by a GM (almost in the company of a drunk Bill Tobin telling Mel Kiper he was clueless).

Essentially what DG said was it's fait accompli - SB is on the road to Canton and everyone should make hotel reservations for 2036. That is a heavy, heavy burden.

So if Jints Central is marketing this guy as God in Pads then expect some heavy, heavy criticism if Barkley isn't great instantly.
RE: RE: RE: Well, yeah,  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13965785 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13965755 Danny80 said:


Quote:


A lot of these expectations seem to be based on the combination of his on-field college production and his combine numbers.



What should they be based on?



Quote:


he probably needs to be a Hall of Fame running back in order to justify the pick over Rosen or Darnold.



Even if Rosen and Darnold bust?


I'm not suggesting that those are bad factors to consider. I'm saying that with his on-field college performance, he looked a lot like a scat back at the NFL level rather than a power back and every down back. Then the combine came, and he weighed in at 230 lbs and ran a 4.40 40 yard dash, and then he became the perfect featured back. To me, Derrius Guice and Nick Chubb looked like better pure running backs. They weren't really used in the passing game at all -- maybe that was partially scheme or maybe lack of open field instincts and elusiveness -- but as far as being a pure running back, they looked to be more the part on the field than Barkley, to me at least. There are at least a handful of evaluators, if not more, who agreed with that assessment.

A lot of people on this site have raised concerns about Jerry Reese placing too much emphasis on measurables. I personally think measurables are important, though I think 40 time is possibly overemphasized for running backs, in particular.
RE: RE: I just wish the  
Bill L : 5/16/2018 4:01 pm : link
In comment 13965805 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13965558 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


would name one guy -- be it Darnold, Rosen, or Allen -- who was the right choice at #2. The Giants had to send a NAME to the podium, not a position.

Which NAME should they have sent instead of Saquon Barkley?

Once we have that name on record, we can all sit back and watch his Hall of Fame career unfold, while Barkely, on the other hand, reveals himself to be no more than a guy the Giants could have "easily" gotten in the fourth or fifth round.



bungle - there were plenty of pre-draft polls taken on BBI if you need to revisit who wanted to who. I think we all kind of get your play here anyway to shrink the odds to a head-to-head argument. So feel free to sit back now.

I was gunning for Rosen myself, but definitely wanted Gettleman to get out of that #2 spot if he wasn't going QB. DG didn't do either, but getting Barkley should be great.

I just don't see how he's wrong. The Giants would only go for one guy and the odds on favorite is Darnold. It seems like more than one guy because we all here have different names to throw into the mix. The Giants did not. So, for them the comparison has to be either this guy or that guy (Barkley).

If you're going to open it up to it could be any QB instead of Barkley at 2 then you're going to say they fucked up by not taking Mason Rudolph instead of Barkley at #2 if Rudolph turns out to be the franchise QB in the draft. That's a terrible game to play because then, retrospectively, you're saying that they made 5 or 6 blunders in the Brady draft because they missed the quintessential QB. That game requires them not just to do research and decide wisely but also to be psychic.

The reality is, that if QB was even on a small part of their table...and honestly, I don't think one was...that the comparison has to be with that QB and Barkley and not other. It's not reducing the field so you don't have to claim that they made the wrong decision, it's actually stating that these were the specific choice from which a decision had to be made and it was (just considering a QB pick here) a binary choice.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/16/2018 4:04 pm : link
Do any of bee dubs posts not mention "Jints Central" ?

Asking for... myself.
Bottom line - much of this comes down to your belief in Gettleman  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2018 4:07 pm : link
And I don't have much of that yet. I thought hiring him was a mistake, a continuation of the Giants' tendency to only hire "Giants guys", and his track record in Carolina is pretty mixed. We'll see how this pans out for him.
RE: .  
bw in dc : 5/16/2018 4:07 pm : link
In comment 13965934 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Do any of bee dubs posts not mention "Jints Central" ?

Asking for... myself.


I can speak to this - easily less than 50% of the time! ;)
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/16/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 13965943 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13965934 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Do any of bee dubs posts not mention "Jints Central" ?

Asking for... myself.



I can speak to this - easily less than 50% of the time! ;)


Seems like a low estimation!
RE: Wait..  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 4:12 pm : link
In comment 13965773 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you have a har time seeing Barkley as a better college back than Bush??

Really?

Bush always seemed like a glorified 3rd down back.


I think everyone and their mother was sure that Reggie Bush was the next Gale Sayers. He wasn't a big back, but he was electrifying and his stop/start ability seemed to rival Sayers and Barry Sanders. As a running back in college, despite having a big passing game and Lendale White in the backfield, his college numbers his junior year were almost Barry Sanders-level. 1740 rushing yards at 8.7 ypc and 478 receiving yards at 12.9 ypr is not a glorified third down back. Those are Heisman trophy numbers. They didn't make him a great pro, but I think the talk about him throughout his entire junior year was that he would be the next coming--and his play on the field that year seemed to back that up.



RE: I'm late to this party...  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13965917 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but indeed Barkley is extremely over-hyped - from the media, to fans, BBI, and, of course, Jints Central.

When you have Gettleman deifying Barkley immediately after the draft that sets the tone right there. It was almost like DG was trying to convince himself that he made the right pick. I fail to recall any GM ever coming out with such strong, bizarre words. I think this was one of the strangest things I have seen by a GM (almost in the company of a drunk Bill Tobin telling Mel Kiper he was clueless).

Essentially what DG said was it's fait accompli - SB is on the road to Canton and everyone should make hotel reservations for 2036. That is a heavy, heavy burden.

So if Jints Central is marketing this guy as God in Pads then expect some heavy, heavy criticism if Barkley isn't great instantly.


Well, I'd say that Mike Ditka trading his entire draft for Ricky Williams and then buying fake dreds probably beats Gettleman's quotes by a long shot. Ricky Williams, btw, was extremely talented, he just didn't like football that much. The guy wasn't really that into it, yet rushed for 1800 yards in a season. Imagine how he would have done if he actually really enjoyed playing football in the NFL.

Bush was never a workhorse  
UConn4523 : 5/16/2018 4:22 pm : link
and played in a far more talented offense. He also came into the league 12 years ago so now, whatís the point of comparing the 2 anyway?

Itís a different NFL, and the 2 players have a different skill set. And even if they were identical as far as style and talent, would that somehow mean Barkley is destined to have the same career?
RE: RE: I'm late to this party...  
bw in dc : 5/16/2018 4:27 pm : link
In comment 13965961 Danny80 said:
Quote:

Well, I'd say that Mike Ditka trading his entire draft for Ricky Williams and then buying fake dreds probably beats Gettleman's quotes by a long shot. Ricky Williams, btw, was extremely talented, he just didn't like football that much. The guy wasn't really that into it, yet rushed for 1800 yards in a season. Imagine how he would have done if he actually really enjoyed playing football in the NFL.


Indeed that was insane. But Ditka was the coach not the GM...
RE: RE: RE: I'm late to this party...  
Victor in CT : 5/16/2018 4:29 pm : link
In comment 13965975 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13965961 Danny80 said:


Quote:



Well, I'd say that Mike Ditka trading his entire draft for Ricky Williams and then buying fake dreds probably beats Gettleman's quotes by a long shot. Ricky Williams, btw, was extremely talented, he just didn't like football that much. The guy wasn't really that into it, yet rushed for 1800 yards in a season. Imagine how he would have done if he actually really enjoyed playing football in the NFL.




Indeed that was insane. But Ditka was the coach not the GM...


he was both in New Orleans
Way too much overthink Bill...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 4:31 pm : link
Bottom line is history will look back to Giants pick if they aren't successful over the next few years and one of those QBs (not named Mayfield) is.

You may not like it, DG may not like it, and it may not even be fair.

But them's the facts...
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm late to this party...  
bw in dc : 5/16/2018 4:34 pm : link
In comment 13965977 Victor in CT said:
Quote:


he was both in New Orleans


I'll stand corrected, but I could have sworn it was Kuharich - at least in title.
RE: Bush was never a workhorse  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 4:44 pm : link
In comment 13965965 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and played in a far more talented offense. He also came into the league 12 years ago so now, whatís the point of comparing the 2 anyway?

Itís a different NFL, and the 2 players have a different skill set. And even if they were identical as far as style and talent, would that somehow mean Barkley is destined to have the same career?


How do they have different skill sets?

Bush had 200 carries his junior year. Barkley had 217 carries his junior year. Each played 13 games their senior year. So Barkley had barely over 1 carry more per game than Bush. How was Bush never a workhorse in college but Barkley was? Yes, over the course of their college careers, Barkley had significantly more carries, but the talent and competition levels at USC at the time and Penn State were vastly different.

Bush had 37 receptions his junior year; Barkley had 54 receptions, definitely a good amount more. But their sophomore years, Bush had 43 receptions and Barkley had 28. They both were big time receiving threats out of the backfield and in the slot in college.

I'm not saying that Barkley is destined to have a career similar to Bush's (which wasn't bad, just not great). But I do think it's useful to look back at the actual facts rather than peg players into the narrative we've created for them years later.

In college, Barkley looked more like Reggie Bush than like Ezekiel Elliot or Todd Gurley in terms of how they played in college and their strongest skill sets.
RE: RE: Bush was never a workhorse  
bw in dc : 5/16/2018 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13966006 Danny80 said:
Quote:

Bush had 200 carries his junior year. Barkley had 217 carries his junior year. Each played 13 games their senior year. So Barkley had barely over 1 carry more per game than Bush. How was Bush never a workhorse in college but Barkley was?


Bush split carries 50/50 with Lindale White, especially in 2005. White was a terrific between the tackles RB at the college game (just didn't translate to the pros because he liked food too much).

Granted, SC killed a lot of people that year and White likely got more carries that way. But White had more carries than Bush in the championship game against TX. He played a helluva game.
The comparisons to Bush are only valid as far as his skillset  
Brown Recluse : 5/16/2018 4:56 pm : link
and athleticism, but people using that comparison as some sort of reason why he won't be successful conveniently forget that Barkley is about 30 lbs heavier than Bush and more powerful. Bush was never a workhorse and wasn't very big.

Personally, my own opinion on Bush is that he could have been much better than he was if not for injuries. He somehow magically became a better back in Miami and Detriot when he was available for pretty much the whole season and received more carries. I think people gloss over his numbers and don't look any further than that.

Regardless, Barkley is not Bush. That is an incomplete assessment.
RE: RE: Bush was never a workhorse  
UConn4523 : 5/16/2018 5:28 pm : link
In comment 13966006 Danny80 said:
Quote:
In comment 13965965 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


and played in a far more talented offense. He also came into the league 12 years ago so now, whatís the point of comparing the 2 anyway?

Itís a different NFL, and the 2 players have a different skill set. And even if they were identical as far as style and talent, would that somehow mean Barkley is destined to have the same career?



How do they have different skill sets?

Bush had 200 carries his junior year. Barkley had 217 carries his junior year. Each played 13 games their senior year. So Barkley had barely over 1 carry more per game than Bush. How was Bush never a workhorse in college but Barkley was? Yes, over the course of their college careers, Barkley had significantly more carries, but the talent and competition levels at USC at the time and Penn State were vastly different.

Bush had 37 receptions his junior year; Barkley had 54 receptions, definitely a good amount more. But their sophomore years, Bush had 43 receptions and Barkley had 28. They both were big time receiving threats out of the backfield and in the slot in college.

I'm not saying that Barkley is destined to have a career similar to Bush's (which wasn't bad, just not great). But I do think it's useful to look back at the actual facts rather than peg players into the narrative we've created for them years later.

In college, Barkley looked more like Reggie Bush than like Ezekiel Elliot or Todd Gurley in terms of how they played in college and their strongest skill sets.


Bush was much lighter, couldnít run in between tackles and couldnít ever carry a full load of touches. In terms of athletecism, go nuts comparing them, but they are 2 different players. Bushís usage at USC was evidence enough of this even before the NFL.

And again, this was 12 years ago, why even bother comparing them?
RE: RE: RE: Bush was never a workhorse  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 7:03 pm : link
In comment 13966046 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13966006 Danny80 said:


Quote:


In comment 13965965 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


and played in a far more talented offense. He also came into the league 12 years ago so now, whatís the point of comparing the 2 anyway?

Itís a different NFL, and the 2 players have a different skill set. And even if they were identical as far as style and talent, would that somehow mean Barkley is destined to have the same career?



How do they have different skill sets?

Bush had 200 carries his junior year. Barkley had 217 carries his junior year. Each played 13 games their senior year. So Barkley had barely over 1 carry more per game than Bush. How was Bush never a workhorse in college but Barkley was? Yes, over the course of their college careers, Barkley had significantly more carries, but the talent and competition levels at USC at the time and Penn State were vastly different.

Bush had 37 receptions his junior year; Barkley had 54 receptions, definitely a good amount more. But their sophomore years, Bush had 43 receptions and Barkley had 28. They both were big time receiving threats out of the backfield and in the slot in college.

I'm not saying that Barkley is destined to have a career similar to Bush's (which wasn't bad, just not great). But I do think it's useful to look back at the actual facts rather than peg players into the narrative we've created for them years later.

In college, Barkley looked more like Reggie Bush than like Ezekiel Elliot or Todd Gurley in terms of how they played in college and their strongest skill sets.



Bush was much lighter, couldnít run in between tackles and couldnít ever carry a full load of touches. In terms of athletecism, go nuts comparing them, but they are 2 different players. Bushís usage at USC was evidence enough of this even before the NFL.

And again, this was 12 years ago, why even bother comparing them?


Here's an interesting article I read before the draft, for what it's worth. I'm not all in on analytics, but it provides an interesting perspective.
Why Saquon Barkley is closer to Reggie Bush than Ezekiel Elliot - ( New Window )
the revisionism on Reggie Bush  
bluepepper : 5/16/2018 7:29 pm : link
is hilarious. He absolutely was rated a sure thing slam dunk great NFL running back. Best player in the draft. The Texans were crazy to pass on him. The Gale Sayers comparisons were repeated ad-nauseum. If anything Bush was MORE hyped than Barkley.

Now that doesn't mean for one second that Barkley won't live up to expectations but it is a cautionary tale for folks who were terrified of picking a QB because none of them were sure things.
RE: the revisionism on Reggie Bush  
BigBlueShock : 5/16/2018 7:36 pm : link
In comment 13966106 bluepepper said:
Quote:
is hilarious. He absolutely was rated a sure thing slam dunk great NFL running back. Best player in the draft. The Texans were crazy to pass on him. The Gale Sayers comparisons were repeated ad-nauseum. If anything Bush was MORE hyped than Barkley.

Now that doesn't mean for one second that Barkley won't live up to expectations but it is a cautionary tale for folks who were terrified of picking a QB because none of them were sure things.

The difference being, people are saying that the QBs arenít slam dunks because, weíll, the QBs themselves. They all have warts and question marks. It seems the only thing people can drum up on Barkley is...Reggie Bush. Nothing to do with the player himself, just, Reggie Bush.
Danny80  
UConn4523 : 5/16/2018 7:39 pm : link
that article sucks. It goes right into ďanalyticsĒ without even talking about the talent disparity that the RBs played with. It then goes on to talk about PFF which, to me, isnít exactly analytics. They have their own system and I have no idea how they break things down, and they are always questioned by not only Giants fans, but in articles of other teams as well.

The guy who wrote that doesnít believe a RB should be taken high. Perfectly fine opinion, but thatís really all that article is about. I happen to think that line of thinking is outdated, which is why comparing this draft class to 2006 is pretty worthless.
RE: Danny80  
BigBlueShock : 5/16/2018 7:49 pm : link
In comment 13966111 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
that article sucks. It goes right into ďanalyticsĒ without even talking about the talent disparity that the RBs played with. It then goes on to talk about PFF which, to me, isnít exactly analytics. They have their own system and I have no idea how they break things down, and they are always questioned by not only Giants fans, but in articles of other teams as well.

The guy who wrote that doesnít believe a RB should be taken high. Perfectly fine opinion, but thatís really all that article is about. I happen to think that line of thinking is outdated, which is why comparing this draft class to 2006 is pretty worthless.

Exactly. Sports are always evolving, changing. This idea that RBs donít get taken high is all because people are conditioned to think that way. But itís been proven recently that times are changing. Elliott and Fournette were both drafted in the top 5. Gurley was top 10 only because of his gruesome injury. Had he been healthy he would have absolutely been a top 5 pick. And all of them are huge parts of their teams success. The Rams didnít have an OL when they drafted Gurley either but they took him and then got a line in front of him. There is no magical formula. You add pieces one at a time and it doesnít matter the order. You take the best players then add pieces around them. Iím not sure why thatís so hard for some people to grasp.
Iím also fairly certain  
BigBlueShock : 5/16/2018 7:54 pm : link
That if you gave the Browns management team a lie detector test, theyíd tell you that they would have preferred Barkley. But the stigma of taking a RB 1st overall and the fact that they had screwed up so severely recently passing up QBs pretty much dictated what they had to do.

Thatís just my opinion however, which doesnít mean much.
When a RB..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 8:17 pm : link
is 30 pounds heavier and otherwise has many of the same attributes, saying they are the same back really ignores the physics of what that 30 pound differential means.
I'm pretty sure  
PEEJ : 5/16/2018 8:49 pm : link
there's a few more teams out there "over-hyping" their fabulous top draftees. It comes with the territory.
...  
christian : 5/16/2018 9:49 pm : link
There are plenty of RB busts, Bush is just the most recent to be picked number 2 overall with wild expectations as a can't miss, do-everything type.

The reality is no player is can't miss. A number of things can happen. Lots of players can't translate what they were great at in college to the pros. No one projected Trent Richardson to be an absolutely terrible NFL player. Maybe his talent wasn't top 3, but he didn't show any signs that he literally couldn't play pro football.

Barkley is going to be bad at things, he's a rookie. The game is going to be really fast for him, he's going to blow blitz pick-ups, he's going to fumble the ball, he's going get his ass kicked. And when that happens the media and even some of the fans on this thread will shit on him. A number of people on this thread, seemingly in favor of the pick expect 11 or 12 hundred yards. Only 7 backs in the league hit that. That's going to take great health, consistentancy, and productivity. Is that realistic to expect year 1?

He's going to have unwarranted expectations as the no. 2 overall pick, in New York, on a team trying to get the heroic QB one more shot.

Gettleman needs to know better than the perfect prospect, hand of God stuff. What value does that serve other than make him feel like the tits for picking him?
RE: RE: Danny80  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 9:53 pm : link
In comment 13966118 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13966111 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


that article sucks. It goes right into ďanalyticsĒ without even talking about the talent disparity that the RBs played with. It then goes on to talk about PFF which, to me, isnít exactly analytics. They have their own system and I have no idea how they break things down, and they are always questioned by not only Giants fans, but in articles of other teams as well.

The guy who wrote that doesnít believe a RB should be taken high. Perfectly fine opinion, but thatís really all that article is about. I happen to think that line of thinking is outdated, which is why comparing this draft class to 2006 is pretty worthless.


Exactly. Sports are always evolving, changing. This idea that RBs donít get taken high is all because people are conditioned to think that way. But itís been proven recently that times are changing. Elliott and Fournette were both drafted in the top 5. Gurley was top 10 only because of his gruesome injury. Had he been healthy he would have absolutely been a top 5 pick. And all of them are huge parts of their teams success. The Rams didnít have an OL when they drafted Gurley either but they took him and then got a line in front of him. There is no magical formula. You add pieces one at a time and it doesnít matter the order. You take the best players then add pieces around them. Iím not sure why thatís so hard for some people to grasp.


I was never on the don't draft a RB high wagon. I loved Todd Gurley coming out of college, thought he was the best back since Adrian Peterson and he was my #1 choice for the Giants that year. I remember my friends laughing when I flipped out when the Giants didn't take him. That said, having Gurley and Eli still in his prime could have given the Giants five years of a great RB and very good QB combo. I don't think many people would say Eli has 5 years left now.

It's also not about size, but about running style. Many evaluators pointed out that Barkley too often tried to bounce outside even when the blocking was there for designed inside runs, and that he did not have a lot of yards after contact, despite his size. I think that's where the Combine, specifically the 230 lb weigh-in, moved Barkley from being a top running back prospect to a "generational" back.

Ron Dayne and Jerome Bettis were about the same size (259, 248 lbs) and had close 40 times at the combine (4.65, 4.70). Dayne actually was bigger and faster, but they had different running styles. Yes physics do matter, but running style matters a lot too. Barkley will likely need to rely less on his instincts to bounce it outside than he did in college and develop a stronger, more violent downfield running style. I don't know if that's very possible to change or if it's so ingrained that in his running instincts that it'll be a challenge to change. I'm hoping the former.
RE: RE: RE: Danny80  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 9:58 pm : link
In comment 13966174 Danny80 said:
Quote:
In comment 13966118 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13966111 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


that article sucks. It goes right into ďanalyticsĒ without even talking about the talent disparity that the RBs played with. It then goes on to talk about PFF which, to me, isnít exactly analytics. They have their own system and I have no idea how they break things down, and they are always questioned by not only Giants fans, but in articles of other teams as well.

The guy who wrote that doesnít believe a RB should be taken high. Perfectly fine opinion, but thatís really all that article is about. I happen to think that line of thinking is outdated, which is why comparing this draft class to 2006 is pretty worthless.


Exactly. Sports are always evolving, changing. This idea that RBs donít get taken high is all because people are conditioned to think that way. But itís been proven recently that times are changing. Elliott and Fournette were both drafted in the top 5. Gurley was top 10 only because of his gruesome injury. Had he been healthy he would have absolutely been a top 5 pick. And all of them are huge parts of their teams success. The Rams didnít have an OL when they drafted Gurley either but they took him and then got a line in front of him. There is no magical formula. You add pieces one at a time and it doesnít matter the order. You take the best players then add pieces around them. Iím not sure why thatís so hard for some people to grasp.



I was never on the don't draft a RB high wagon. I loved Todd Gurley coming out of college, thought he was the best back since Adrian Peterson and he was my #1 choice for the Giants that year. I remember my friends laughing when I flipped out when the Giants didn't take him. That said, having Gurley and Eli still in his prime could have given the Giants five years of a great RB and very good QB combo. I don't think many people would say Eli has 5 years left now.

It's also not about size, but about running style. Many evaluators pointed out that Barkley too often tried to bounce outside even when the blocking was there for designed inside runs, and that he did not have a lot of yards after contact, despite his size. I think that's where the Combine, specifically the 230 lb weigh-in, moved Barkley from being a top running back prospect to a "generational" back.

Ron Dayne and Jerome Bettis were about the same size (259, 248 lbs) and had close 40 times at the combine (4.65, 4.70). Dayne actually was bigger and faster, but they had different running styles. Yes physics do matter, but running style matters a lot too. Barkley will likely need to rely less on his instincts to bounce it outside than he did in college and develop a stronger, more violent downfield running style. I don't know if that's very possible to change or if it's so ingrained that in his running instincts that it'll be a challenge to change. I'm hoping the former.


All that said, I'm in his corner. I'm hoping he becomes the best RB in the NFL very quickly and helps makes the Giants a playoff and Super Bowl contender year in and year out for 7-10 years.
I'm not..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 10:00 pm : link
sure why a more violent downfield running style would be necessary for success.

You know what Reggie Bush's main problem was? Staying healthy. He only played in all 16 games two times. One was his rookie year where he had 88 receptions, which is damn good.

And let's not act as if Bush was a bust. He's a guy who played 10 years, with 54TD's.

He was only healthy one of the 5 years he was in New Orleans.

Barkley could maintain the same style as in college and be successful. Basically - we need him to stay healthy.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/16/2018 10:03 pm : link
People talk about Reggie Bush like he was a complete nobody.

He actually was a pretty good player and stuck around for a much longer time than people thought he would.

He was also quite productive when he did play.

If Barkley is a more durable, more versatile version of Bush, it'll be a very good pick.
RE: .  
Danny80 : 5/16/2018 10:53 pm : link
In comment 13966187 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
People talk about Reggie Bush like he was a complete nobody.

He actually was a pretty good player and stuck around for a much longer time than people thought he would.

He was also quite productive when he did play.

If Barkley is a more durable, more versatile version of Bush, it'll be a very good pick.


I don't disagree. My first post on this string was that Reggie Bush had a very good (just not a great) career. He was a good player, just didn't live up to the immense expectations that were set for him.
If Barkley's career is anywhere near Reggie Bush at the end of the day  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/16/2018 11:22 pm : link
then that's not very good and I don't know how you could spin it otherwise. Yes, Bush found a role in the league but that certainly doesn't make it worth it now that his career is in the books.

But I can't see how anyone would think comparing Barkley to Bush makes any sense whatsoever. It's a really, really, really bad comparison.

RE: When a RB..  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/17/2018 2:32 am : link
In comment 13966127 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is 30 pounds heavier and otherwise has many of the same attributes, saying they are the same back really ignores the physics of what that 30 pound differential means.

This point cannot be stated enough. Even if one chooses to fixate on the similarities between Bush and Barkley, if they do so without acknowledging that Barkley posseses the physical attributes to translate those skills to the NFL where Bush could not, they're either being disingenuous or willfully obtuse.
Most athletes and front offices  
Mike from SI : 5/17/2018 4:27 am : link
don't let the media chatter affect them. Barkley does not seem like the type who will care what the callers on WFAN or posters here say about him. Therefore, I don't think it matters (in this case).
RE: Most athletes and front offices  
christian : 5/17/2018 7:47 am : link
In comment 13966226 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
don't let the media chatter affect them. Barkley does not seem like the type who will care what the callers on WFAN or posters here say about him. Therefore, I don't think it matters (in this case).


I hope that is true -- but Barkley hasn't failed on a large scale in the NFL yet. He will soon enough, and when he does Gettleman's hyperbole certainly won't help keep the noise down.
So Barkley..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 7:52 am : link
will fail soon?
RE: RE: Most athletes and front offices  
BigBlueShock : 5/17/2018 8:07 am : link
In comment 13966260 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 13966226 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


don't let the media chatter affect them. Barkley does not seem like the type who will care what the callers on WFAN or posters here say about him. Therefore, I don't think it matters (in this case).



I hope that is true -- but Barkley hasn't failed on a large scale in the NFL yet. He will soon enough, and when he does Gettleman's hyperbole certainly won't help keep the noise down.

Only because fans that wanted a QB are taking Gettlemans obvious joking statement so seriously. Itís been mentioned numerous times on this thread but there is a segment of fans that are just waiting to sit back and holler ďI told you so!Ē. It is amazing to me that people are taking those comments so seriously. If the stupid fans would chill out there would be no issue. Where is the noise going to come from? Fans that donít like the pick. Blame them for overreacting, not Gettleman or Barkley
RE: RE: RE: Most athletes and front offices  
christian : 5/17/2018 8:47 am : link
In comment 13966270 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13966260 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 13966226 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


don't let the media chatter affect them. Barkley does not seem like the type who will care what the callers on WFAN or posters here say about him. Therefore, I don't think it matters (in this case).



I hope that is true -- but Barkley hasn't failed on a large scale in the NFL yet. He will soon enough, and when he does Gettleman's hyperbole certainly won't help keep the noise down.


Only because fans that wanted a QB are taking Gettlemans obvious joking statement so seriously. Itís been mentioned numerous times on this thread but there is a segment of fans that are just waiting to sit back and holler ďI told you so!Ē. It is amazing to me that people are taking those comments so seriously. If the stupid fans would chill out there would be no issue. Where is the noise going to come from? Fans that donít like the pick. Blame them for overreacting, not Gettleman or Barkley


That's a very simplistic and intellectually flimsy argument.

If Barkley comes out flat (whether his fault or not), and the back cover headline in the Post is 'Touched by the Hand of God' -- that will be because some fans didn't like the pick?

It will have nothing to do with a rookie playing poorly and the GM having gone overboard praising how great the pick was?

I think you drastically underestimate how critical the press here is, and that Barkley is not going to get a semblance of a break no matter how much some fans like him.

I think Barkley is going to have a fine year, but I think the line will still be a big problem, and the offense will have growing pains in a new system and not much depth at WR.

I think Barkley is going to have rough moments and when he does the professional critics will pounce and Gettleman has given them fodder, just like a every Reese hyperbolic praise turned into a jab.

If Barkely is completely impervious to criticism and pressure in New York, as a top 2 pick, on a team coming off an awful season with an aging and flawed hero at QB and the GM effectively annointing him, he's more perfect than Gettleman even graded.
This thread  
JonC : 5/17/2018 8:51 am : link
needs a lot more Kay Adams, and a lot less everything else.
If Barkley..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 8:54 am : link
is anything like Ezekiel Elliott, the only time the headlines might use the term Touched By the Hand of God is if he's accused of assault......
We might be best served to just trade Barkley at this point  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 10:16 am : link
the expectations...the media...the GM comments...the pressure of being the pick instead of a franchise-QB. Its all too much.

The NY Giants gave it a shot but its obvious that this was never going to work...

RE: This thread  
Klaatu : 5/17/2018 10:57 am : link
In comment 13966300 JonC said:
Quote:
needs a lot more Kay Adams, and a lot less everything else.


Ask and ye shall receive:

I don't mind doing the RB comparison thing  
BSIMatt : 5/17/2018 3:19 pm : link
regardless of size, but strictly based on style of play. Honestly you have to do that a bit when finding comparisons with Barkley because his playing style uses so much shiftiness and elusiveness, guys his size don't usually have that trait. However, Barkley and Bush really have nothing in common other than they are both really fast and are good at catching footballs. Go back and watch Bush USC highlights, he runs really nothing at all like Barkly. It's not a good comparison. For being such a phenomenal athlete, Bush wasn't exceptionally shifty, he was insanely explosive and fast, but LeSean McCoy had much more shake than Reggie, and Barkely runs much more like McCoy than Bush, except he has Bush's speed(and yes, bot those guys were 200lb runningbacks oh by the way).
If Bush is used as an example of why not to draft a rb instead of qb  
steve in ky : 5/17/2018 9:23 pm : link
with a high pick it's probably fair to point out that Vince Young was #3 just behind Bush and Matt Leinart was the other qb drafted in the top 10 that year. There are no guarantees in an NFL draft regardless if position.
RE: If Bush is used as an example of why not to draft a rb instead of qb  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 9:32 pm : link
In comment 13967045 steve in ky said:
Quote:
with a high pick it's probably fair to point out that Vince Young was #3 just behind Bush and Matt Leinart was the other qb drafted in the top 10 that year. There are no guarantees in an NFL draft regardless if position.


Yup.

Reggie Bush was a better draft pick than both Vince Young and Matt Leinart. Not even debatable.
RE: RE: If Bush is used as an example of why not to draft a rb instead of qb  
BigBlueShock : 5/17/2018 9:45 pm : link
In comment 13967056 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13967045 steve in ky said:


Quote:


with a high pick it's probably fair to point out that Vince Young was #3 just behind Bush and Matt Leinart was the other qb drafted in the top 10 that year. There are no guarantees in an NFL draft regardless if position.



Yup.

Reggie Bush was a better draft pick than both Vince Young and Matt Leinart. Not even debatable.

Yeah but those other two guys were highly touted QBs, isnít that the only thing that matters? From reading BBI, Iíve learned that an ordinary QB is more valuable than a very good RB.
The more interesting take..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 9:49 pm : link
is that a RB who played 10 years in the NFL was a bust and a terrible pick.

Why people don't ever discuss the gray middle ground is what rabbit holes a lot of these discussions.

RE: The more interesting take..  
BigBlueShock : 5/17/2018 9:57 pm : link
In comment 13967067 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is that a RB who played 10 years in the NFL was a bust and a terrible pick.

Why people don't ever discuss the gray middle ground is what rabbit holes a lot of these discussions.

Come on man. If Barkley doesnít run for 4000 yards and lead the Giants to the playoffs in year one he is an utter failure because the GM said he was touched by the hand of God. Iíll be foaming at the mouth if this guy doesnít end up the best RB ever because our GM gushed about him. Iím sitting here just waiting to pounce because the Daily News May post an article picking on Gettleman and Barkley if he doesnít run for 300 yards every week.... and I take the articles that some fat slob from the Daily News writes seriously, man.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 9:59 pm : link
Unfortunately, that's where we're going next.

Every time Barkley doesn't have a spectacular showing, we'll have to hear about how God must have taken the day off or how "DSG" is clueless.

Can't wait!
But lets face it...you guys come on this site so you can  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 10:13 pm : link
jump on the "weak, non-sensical" posts/posters...at least to some degree.

I know you all as good posters too when it comes to football, but you can't tell me you don't get some interest or "jollies" out of the argumentative battles you take on.

just sayin' (again)...
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 10:28 pm : link
LOL, well I don't think that's why I come here - I come here primarily to talk about the Giants (and sports in general), but sometimes the stupid is too difficult to ignore.

Beyond that, I suppose if we all agreed on everything, there wouldn't be much to talk about. :)
Thats fine. I wasn't trying to be insulting with the comment  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 10:36 pm : link
as I know the ideal view is to talk Giant football. Reality is its more to argue about Giant football...

;-)
You found me out  
steve in ky : 5/17/2018 10:41 pm : link
22 years here just to get my jollies arguing while the Giant talk/info is secondary.
RE: The more interesting take..  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/18/2018 3:47 am : link
In comment 13967067 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is that a RB who played 10 years in the NFL was a bust and a terrible pick.

Why people don't ever discuss the gray middle ground is what rabbit holes a lot of these discussions.


Would you really say that a runningback picked 2nd overall and played 10 years, finishing with 5500 rushing yards, and only actually got a full time starter's share of carries in three of those 10 years turned out to be a quality pick?

Put another way, think of an NFL player who you would describe as fully average. Not special, not bad. Solid starter.

Would picking that player 2nd overall be classified as a success? If Justin Pugh was drafted 2nd overall, would that not equate to a wasted pick?

Shorting him a bit with just rushing stats. Assume Bush had ample  
Jimmy Googs : 5/18/2018 7:41 am : link
receiving numbers as well. And I think he was a pretty decent punt returner, at least early in career.
Bush was only..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/18/2018 7:49 am : link
healthy enough to play a full 16 games two times in his career. One of those seasons was his rookie year where he only started 8 games and yet amassed 88 receptions.

He only had two 1,000 yard seasons and he had nearly 500 receptions in his career.

What part of the gray area I was talking about above is confusing? He's neither a bust, nor a guy who lived up to the #2 position. He was neither a wasted pick nor a terrible one.

I don't even get the connection to Pugh. Pugh was drafted much lower and many here look at him as a wasted pick. Not sure what the exercise of drafting him at #2 illustrates.
And Googs..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/18/2018 7:51 am : link
is right about him being a PR. He had 4 punt return TD's in his career and he led the league with a 13.5 average once.
Btw - this thread has become a bit of garden variety of topics  
Jimmy Googs : 5/18/2018 7:56 am : link
Why the hell is Reggie Bush being discussed...because he is comparative to what we should expect from Barkley?
Quoting his rushing stats  
UConn4523 : 5/18/2018 7:58 am : link
and foregoing everything else is useless. Itís the epitome of cherry picking. Bush had some really good years in the nfl, and despite his injuries a fairly long career for his position.
Bush was an All Pro and helped the Saints win a Superrbowl  
Britt in VA : 5/18/2018 8:11 am : link
I'd sign up for that.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/18/2018 10:40 am : link
Because people keep using Reggie Bush as some sort of disparaging comparison for Barkley. Bush had a pretty solid career for a RB.

I expect Barkley to be better, but people talk about Bush like he was some massive bust which wasn't the case at all.
I'm beginning to think Barkley is taking the mantle from Manning  
JOrthman : 5/18/2018 12:30 pm : link
and some in this fan base/the NFL are going to be on him throughout his career unless he turns into Barry Sanders 2.0.
RE: Bush was an All Pro and helped the Saints win a Superrbowl  
GoBlue6599 : 5/18/2018 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13967206 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I'd sign up for that.

Reggie Bush was a All pro RB? Or a All Pro special teams player who played on a SB winning team
U honestly would be happy if Barkley is nothing more then a dynamic scat back and great special teams player?
Expectations for the 2nd overall pick have to be much higher
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