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Kay Adams: "Giants over-hyping Saquon Barkley"

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/15/2018 12:19 pm
I'm paraphrasing, but she raised an interesting point that I think some folks on BBI have mentioned. She thinks the Giants are doing a disservice to Barkley and the team by over-hyping Barkley. My guess is she was mostly talking about Gettleman's comments, but it raises an interesting question.

Would a 1,200 yard rookie season be a disappointment for most fans? How about 10 touchdowns?

What is YOUR expectation level with Barkley.
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RE: RE: Having watched all of his press conferences  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/16/2018 9:09 am : link
In comment 13964986 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13964980 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


To this point, I donít think itís impossible to see how he might rub people the wrong way, coupled with the fact that he came with the reputation of doing so in his last job as well.

But to your point, yeah, I think there is some pushback. There is a fraction of the membership here that is set on thinking that just because the last guy was fired that decisions going forward are the right ones and arenít worth discussing. When the team is way under .500 over the past five years, sure, any hire and any draft pick can be questioned. It might be a good hire or it might now. The team hasnít given reason for anyone to trust blindly.


If thatís how you choose to go through life, have at it


It's not how I go through life. It's just how I look at a football team that's been bad for half a decade. There's a big difference between opting for a wait and see approach and just assuming everything is going to be okay. There is a lot that has to be figured out with this ball club.
My opinion is that we have to wait for a body of work....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 9:12 am : link
before discussing whether things were the right move or not. Give the new guys a chance. This is the first true housecleaning in a decade, as well.

That's what people wanted, right? A housecleaning? You got it. Now we just have to sit back and see what happens.
Agree, we need to wait and see  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2018 9:17 am : link
if this housecleaning was enough.
RE: Anything less than ROY  
djm : 5/16/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13965037 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And a NYG playoff berth and Iíd consider it a disappointment. Say he accounts for 1700 yards and scores 8-10 tds while we go 6-10 or 7-9. Are we going to be happy?


Just stop.
RE: RE: Some of you really are miserable  
djm : 5/16/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 13964888 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13964865 djm said:


Quote:


Youíre going to really hold gettleman to those comments he made about Hall of fame and touched by god or whatever... and what, if Barkely tweaks a hammy or turns an ankle or merely plays at a very good slightly under elite Level his first 20 games or so, then what? Pitchforks and constant fucking bitching. And why? Because the GM loved the player and told the fan base he loved the player?

Heís a special fucking talent. The GM, EVERY GM agrees. So he said Barkley is a blessed human being!! Shut the fuck up and hope for the best and enjoy it. Some of you have placed a bullseye on the GM because he told the fans the truth?



He's a paid professional speaking as a representative for a his franchise at a press conference. It's an entirely different scenario than some knucklehead on BBI declaring Barkley an instant hall of famer because football fans act like football fans. There's no situation where the people who actually have their finger on the big red button should be acting like the average fan.

Also, take a pill. It's a discussion board. If you're sick of talking about a particular topic go take a walk.


So he shouldn't tell everyone that he loves the player's potential and skill set? WTF are you talking about?

I'm sick of miserable fans that need to get mad at something, anything..don't like it? Stop being miserable.
I just don't understand  
djm : 5/16/2018 10:11 am : link
what is wrong with a GM saying he loves the player he drafted. Here's the thing, his comments won't make a fucking difference in the grand scheme of things. The only people impacted will be the fans and writers.

Barkley will be great if he stays healthy. He won't fail because the GM told everyone that he's a special talent and it's not unprofessional to say what he said, not in the least. It's childish to get worked up over those comments.
do some of you  
djm : 5/16/2018 10:21 am : link
really need it spelled out for you? When a player is picked in the top five of a deep NFL draft, the GM and team LOVE that player. They cautiously hope that player is a legend after a ten year career. So he said it....out loud....Get a fucking grip.
get a fucking grip...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/16/2018 10:46 am : link
...well stated.

Pollyanna rules, everyone else is dead to me.

The Giants may have drafted the best 2 players in the draft....
...or not.

~
.  
arcarsenal : 5/16/2018 11:17 am : link
I don't think it's necessarily just the team.

I think a lot of fans are putting him in a spot where he's probably doomed just because they wanted a QB.

So, what you hear those fans say are things like "this guy better be the best RB in football right away otherwise it's a bad pick!"

All types of stuff like that.

"He better have 2k+ scrimmage yards as a rookie!"

Saquon is coming into this where he almost has to be perfect because anything less will be considered disappointing and that's not his doing at all. So, that kinda sucks. But - it comes with the territory of being selected this high.
The 'freak-out' over not taking a QB  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:24 am : link
is nothing compared to the freak-out when Eli got benched for a game. Talk about embarrassing..
RE: The 'freak-out' over not taking a QB  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:25 am : link
In comment 13965515 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
is nothing compared to the freak-out when Eli got benched for a game. Talk about embarrassing..


Here's Mr. QB is a stone cold lock at 2, himself. Deflect, deflect, deflect. I'm enjoying your squirming.
RE: RE: The 'freak-out' over not taking a QB  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:26 am : link
In comment 13965520 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13965515 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


is nothing compared to the freak-out when Eli got benched for a game. Talk about embarrassing..



Here's Mr. QB is a stone cold lock at 2, himself. Deflect, deflect, deflect. I'm enjoying your squirming.


Your reading comprehension sucks, bro.

But at least you don't see me starting threads claiming I'm a bigger fan of a particular player than the actual team when my favorite player gets benched for a game. Now *that* was embarrassing.
Yea Dave...  
Chris684 : 5/16/2018 11:28 am : link
There was no problem with a coach with Ben McAdoo's resume benching and publicly embarrassing a QB with Eli Manning's resume.

None at all.

By the way, weren't you one of the "Eli throws high slants and gets Beckham hurt" guys?
Pyscho Chris.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:30 am : link
I thought it was the wrong move, too. Difference is I didn't cry and whine myself to sleep every night that week. I didn't claim I was a bigger fan of the player than the team in a thread or anything of that ilk.
Dave is a simp,  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:30 am : link
don't mind him. Just enjoy his constant backtracking, because he's almost always wrong, although he's aggressive about it.
And I have no idea what you're talking about with Beckham and Eli.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:31 am : link
Obviously, he didn't do it on purpose. But it happened. So what?
Dave is what we call a drive by poster....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:31 am : link
rarely anything of substance, hardly ever backs up his opinion with any sort of logic or reason, just piggybacks off of others and takes shots at posters and tries to distract from just how awful his posts are.

He's been called on it many times by many posters.
Just the response I expected.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:32 am : link
Imagine portraying yourself as some kind of cool guy on here based on posts. The BBI King. The same guy who thought Domenik Hixon would be a fine replacement for Plaxico Burress! The BBI King. He's always right! Clown.
Come on guys  
UConn4523 : 5/16/2018 11:32 am : link
can we get back to Barkley being not worth it unless he has 3,000 yards and 30 TDs his rookie year?
Long live the king.  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:38 am : link
.
I continually..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 11:44 am : link
find it interesting that fans who were embarrassed by McAdoo, who hated the way he handled the eli situation and thought he was a trainwreck of a coach are considered more of a fan of a player than the organization.

To me, McAdoo was the biggest problem with the team last year. By a wide margin. He lost the team, had several defensive players rebel and shit on the franchise QB.

Recognizing those points under the heading of "Eli Apologist" seems like a lot of horseshit. It should be more under the heading of "McAdoo Hater".
RE: I continually..  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 13965544 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
find it interesting that fans who were embarrassed by McAdoo, who hated the way he handled the eli situation and thought he was a trainwreck of a coach are considered more of a fan of a player than the organization.

To me, McAdoo was the biggest problem with the team last year. By a wide margin. He lost the team, had several defensive players rebel and shit on the franchise QB.

Recognizing those points under the heading of "Eli Apologist" seems like a lot of horseshit. It should be more under the heading of "McAdoo Hater".


Maybe because that one person in particular even created a thread claiming he was a bigger fan of the player than the actual team, and that he was proud of it?
Can you please link this thread that you're referring to?  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 11:52 am : link
I'm not saying I didn't post it, but I'm having trouble remembering this thread.
I just wish the "QB at #2" crowd  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 11:52 am : link
would name one guy -- be it Darnold, Rosen, or Allen -- who was the right choice at #2. The Giants had to send a NAME to the podium, not a position.

Which NAME should they have sent instead of Saquon Barkley?

Once we have that name on record, we can all sit back and watch his Hall of Fame career unfold, while Barkely, on the other hand, reveals himself to be no more than a guy the Giants could have "easily" gotten in the fourth or fifth round.
RE: I just wish the  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 11:53 am : link
In comment 13965558 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
would name one guy -- be it Darnold, Rosen, or Allen -- who was the right choice at #2. The Giants had to send a NAME to the podium, not a position.

Which NAME should they have sent instead of Saquon Barkley?

Once we have that name on record, we can all sit back and watch his Hall of Fame career unfold, while Barkely, on the other hand, reveals himself to be no more than a guy the Giants could have "easily" gotten in the fourth or fifth round.


Nah. They could've picked any of Rosen, Allen, or Darnold. They were available at 2.
"With the second pick in the 2018 NFL Draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:06 pm : link
the New York Giants select...any of Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, or Sam Darnold."
Well, yeah,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:08 pm : link
they could have picked any of the three.
Which one should they have taken?  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:09 pm : link
.
It'll  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 12:10 pm : link
be funny to see people latch on to any of the 3 as "misses" if they turn out serviceable, even if Barkley is a stud.

Sadly, if have a feeling some posters will actually want to look at the draft as a miss.

Probably the same that are throwing shade at posters for being fans of players instead of the team.

I find that ironically contradictory, but they probably won't.
RE: Which one should they have taken?  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13965588 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
.


I would have been happy with either of Darnold or Rosen.
RE: It'll  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13965589 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
be funny to see people latch on to any of the 3 as "misses" if they turn out serviceable, even if Barkley is a stud.

Sadly, if have a feeling some posters will actually want to look at the draft as a miss.

Probably the same that are throwing shade at posters for being fans of players instead of the team.

I find that ironically contradictory, but they probably won't.


I'm not accusing anyone of saying it. They said it themselves.
They could have gotten two of them at 7 and 10, also....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 12:12 pm : link
so I guess that illustrates that they only way to get a "franchise QB" isn't exclusively to pick in the top 5, doesn't it.

Wasn't that the argument? That we had to take a QB because when would be ever pick in the Top 5 again?
RE: RE: Which one should they have taken?  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13965590 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965588 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


.



I would have been happy with either of Darnold or Rosen.

But if you had to pick one (as the Giants had to)...
RE: RE: It'll  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13965591 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965589 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


be funny to see people latch on to any of the 3 as "misses" if they turn out serviceable, even if Barkley is a stud.

Sadly, if have a feeling some posters will actually want to look at the draft as a miss.

Probably the same that are throwing shade at posters for being fans of players instead of the team.

I find that ironically contradictory, but they probably won't.



I'm not accusing anyone of saying it. They said it themselves.


Still waiting on this thread. Please post it? I'm having a hard time believing that I said specifically "I"m a bigger Eli fan than I am Giants fan". Please post where I said that, and I'll stand corrected. I've posted drunk several times on BBI over the years, especially on game day, so I wouldn't be surprised. But I'd still like to see it.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/16/2018 12:14 pm : link
I'm just glad that Dave Gettleman didn't go into the draft with the same mindset a lot of fans had.

Otherwise we would have just force-picked a player we didn't love simply because he's a QB.

Losing strategy.
RE: RE: RE: It'll  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13965598 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13965591 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13965589 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


be funny to see people latch on to any of the 3 as "misses" if they turn out serviceable, even if Barkley is a stud.

Sadly, if have a feeling some posters will actually want to look at the draft as a miss.

Probably the same that are throwing shade at posters for being fans of players instead of the team.

I find that ironically contradictory, but they probably won't.



I'm not accusing anyone of saying it. They said it themselves.



Still waiting on this thread. Please post it? I'm having a hard time believing that I said specifically "I"m a bigger Eli fan than I am Giants fan". Please post where I said that, and I'll stand corrected. I've posted drunk several times on BBI over the years, especially on game day, so I wouldn't be surprised. But I'd still like to see it.


You want me to waste time looking for a thread of yours from 6-7 months ago?
Ummm, yes.  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 12:17 pm : link
If you're going to state that I said something with absolute certainty, I expect you to produce the quote.
In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:19 pm : link
the Chiefs "got a QB" at #7. Given that loaded QB class, it seems smart, right?

Except the name they sent to the podium was Todd Blackledge.

The pick has to be more than just the right position. It's gotta be the right name, too.
RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13965604 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
the Chiefs "got a QB" at #7. Given that loaded QB class, it seems smart, right?

Except the name they sent to the podium was Todd Blackledge.

The pick has to be more than just the right position. It's gotta be the right name, too.


And we don't know that it isn't. Let's see how these guys turn out over the next few years.
RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13965607 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965604 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


the Chiefs "got a QB" at #7. Given that loaded QB class, it seems smart, right?

Except the name they sent to the podium was Todd Blackledge.

The pick has to be more than just the right position. It's gotta be the right name, too.



And we don't know that it isn't. Let's see how these guys turn out over the next few years.

Exactly. We have to see how all of these guys turn out.

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.
The past irrelevant  
Chris684 : 5/16/2018 12:26 pm : link
Saquon Barkley was far and away the best available prospect in this whole draft.

Will it play out that way? No one can be sure. Doesnt change the decision.

Darnold had an underwhelming season. The Jets wanted Mayfield more.

Rosen is an asshole as evidenced by his calling out those picked before him as "mistakes" and also comes with a nice concussion history. Makes perfect sense that a Giants fan who bitches about Eli Manning would want a guy who is an asshole and has injury issues.
See....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2018 12:27 pm : link
Like when I said you said we were going to take a QB with absolute certainty, I can produce the quote:

Quote:
It literally doesn't matter.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:32 pm : link
He's going to be 37 for next season and we're picking very high in the upcoming draft with a bunch of good QBs in this years draft. They're picking a QB, and even that QB doesn't start next year, he's still getting picked in this year's draft.


Quote:
They're drafting a QB.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:43 pm : link


Quote:
Oh, and he'll sit a year at most, hate to be the bearer of even more bad news for you


See how that works? When you can't do that, there's this little thing in law called libel. Luckily for you, BBI is not a court of law.

They're taking a QB 12/17/17 - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13965612 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13965607 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13965604 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


the Chiefs "got a QB" at #7. Given that loaded QB class, it seems smart, right?

Except the name they sent to the podium was Todd Blackledge.

The pick has to be more than just the right position. It's gotta be the right name, too.



And we don't know that it isn't. Let's see how these guys turn out over the next few years.


Exactly. We have to see how all of these guys turn out.

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.


If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.
RE: See....  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13965618 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Like when I said you said we were going to take a QB with absolute certainty, I can produce the quote:



Quote:


It literally doesn't matter.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:32 pm : link
He's going to be 37 for next season and we're picking very high in the upcoming draft with a bunch of good QBs in this years draft. They're picking a QB, and even that QB doesn't start next year, he's still getting picked in this year's draft.





Quote:


They're drafting a QB.
Dave in Hoboken : 12/17/2017 8:43 pm : link





Quote:


Oh, and he'll sit a year at most, hate to be the bearer of even more bad news for you



See how that works? When you can't do that, there's this little thing in law called libel. Luckily for you, BBI is not a court of law. They're taking a QB 12/17/17 - ( New Window )


2 things:

1) I also said quite a few times after that, that I think they should take a QB and that they might not and I wouldn't agree with it.

2) They did draft a QB, just not in the 1st round.
RE: RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13965622 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965612 Mr. Bungle said:

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.



If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.

Even after Eric Dickerson set rookie rushing records his first season?

(Which I am NOT predicting Barkley will do!)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13965635 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13965622 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13965612 Mr. Bungle said:

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.



If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.


Even after Eric Dickerson set rookie rushing records his first season?

(Which I am NOT predicting Barkley will do!)


Damn, he was great.

But if one of the QBs I can take is Dan Marino, then yes.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/16/2018 12:35 pm : link
the point is that you can be happy whether it was Dickerson or Marino.

I hope people keep that in mind when they start complaining after Darnold has his first 2 TD game, even if Barkley is leading the league in rushing.
RE: I think..  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/16/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13965640 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the point is that you can be happy whether it was Dickerson or Marino.

I hope people keep that in mind when they start complaining after Darnold has his first 2 TD game, even if Barkley is leading the league in rushing.


Yeah. Nevermind stats, though, I think it has more to do with stuff like playoff appearances. If, for example,a few years from now, the Jets are making the postseason every year, and the Giants aren't, that could be a problem. If Webb and Lauletta turnout to not be the next QB in a couple of years and both bomb, and we're looking for a QB for those years, that would be a problem.

But if the Jets (or Cards) are still the same teams that they've been, and the Giants find their next franchise QB (whether it be Webb/Lauletta, or someone else) rather quickly, that would be the preferred scenario, obviously.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: In the legendary 1983 draft,  
Mr. Bungle : 5/16/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13965636 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13965635 Mr. Bungle said:

Were the Rams wrong in that same 1983 draft when they took Eric Dickerson at #2? They could have taken Jim Kelly or Dan Marino. I don't think the Rams, or Bills, or Dolphins were unhappy with their picks. It may very well be the case that the Giants, Jets, and Cardinals all end up very happy with their 2018 1st-round picks.



If I were a Rams fan from back then, as great as Dickerson was, I'd still much prefer one of those QBs.


Even after Eric Dickerson set rookie rushing records his first season?

(Which I am NOT predicting Barkley will do!)



Damn, he was great.

But if one of the QBs I can take is Dan Marino, then yes.

Except you're using hindsight with Marino. He was taken 27th overall in that 1st round. FIVE quarterbacks were taken ahead of him, including the aforementioned Blackledge, Ken O'Brien (lol Jets), and Tony Eason. The way people view Marino now as a QB god is not the same as how they viewed him as a prospect.

That's why it's important to specify now -- before any of these careers unfold -- which name you would have sent to the podium, if you were in that position.
I'm not sure why people LOVE Darnold so much...  
Chris684 : 5/16/2018 12:43 pm : link
There is a lot to like, sure, but I don't think the majority of NFL scouts and decision makers felt the way some at BBI did/do.

What we know after the draft.

Cleveland (with Dorsey) a more capable GM than they've had in awhile passed.

The Jets plan A was Mayfield, not Darnold.

The Colts sat out the QBs entirely with all of Luck's arm issues.

Elway with only Keenum on his roster and an arm's length away from a trade up was fine to sit out the QBs.

Mayock said he saw no "Luck or Wentz" in this draft.

Darnold spent the lowest % of snaps from under center.

What slam dunk am I missing with Darnold or any of these guys?
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