I keep hearing about the Giants being a win NOW team. Solely, based on Eli's age, selecting Barkley and not selecting a QB @2, which makes little sense to me.
I suspect every team's goal is a win now, win tomorrow, win always. NE seems to be the only one who actually does it! I guess teams buy some time if they start a rookie QB....which I guess is WHY the media calls the Giants a win now team with Eli being 37. But.....
A New offense, new defense usually takes time. 4/5 new starters on the OL rarely produces great results right away(with the Giants any change will be an improvement). But I am excited about the 180' turn in direction that Shurmur and DG have created.
Shurmur's demeanor points to a competent HC.....Box Checked
DG has been reloading the roster to his liking.......Box Checked..
Removal of players that do not fit their plans........Box Checked
Support and re-enforcement for their aging QB....Box Checked
Build the Trenches, filling holes............................Pending
Rome can not be built in a day!, nor the Giants in one off-season. I feel they are fixing the culture, the attitudes and bringing back the winning tradition but can quantity fix the lack of quality among the DBs? has the rebuilding of the OL been completed? Will the limited amount of live practice limit their success?
It will be difficult to hit the ground running with such changeover without experiencing some growing pains.
Besides, another off-season will do wonders. Re-signing OBJ and Collins, not losing anyone of any importance. Have Eli regain his trust with the OL. Get a premium RT and 3rd Corner. Find that center-field FS. Let the offense get familiar and allow the defense gel one year
So, I believe the Giants are not a win NOW team but a win next year team!!!
Just in the last year, we've seen Minny and the Rams revamp their OL. Also, the change to a new OC or DC often yields immediate results. We've seen hue leaps made by teams like the Seahawks or Falcons simply by having a new coordinator.
The Redskins implemented the Wildcat with RGIII and went from worst to first. That type of thing happens each year in the modern game.
The bad news is that - on paper - the Giants look like a top heavy team with some very talented players but that quality quickly dissipates when you get to the middle of the roster. For example, we have an awesome starting CB and outside WR, but the drop off after that is extremely noticeable.
To me, much depends on Eli (can he get his mojo back) and Shurmur (can he inspire).
Quote:
A New offense, new defense usually takes time. 4/5 new starters on the OL rarely produces great results right away
Just in the last year, we've seen Minny and the Rams revamp their OL. Also, the change to a new OC or DC often yields immediate results. We've seen hue leaps made by teams like the Seahawks or Falcons simply by having a new coordinator.
The Redskins implemented the Wildcat with RGIII and went from worst to first. That type of thing happens each year in the modern game.
I agree, I think waiting for our previous offensive line to gel really got us nowhere. It would be something to see this new group come in and become an immediate upgrade.
1. All new coaching staff
2. New O
3. New D
4. O-line is improving, but still has a ways to go
5. Thin at CB
6. Thin at WR
7. After OV, the pass rush is a big question
last year was the wake up call, OL/DB/RB's are all below average.
It will take another good draft /FA and some luck . If the cards fall right I could see them challenging in 2019.
If Eli finally matures, and his TD/INT becomes something like 30+/10 -.
Who knows??
The bad news is that - on paper - the Giants look like a top heavy team with some very talented players but that quality quickly dissipates when you get to the middle of the roster. For example, we have an awesome starting CB and outside WR, but the drop off after that is extremely noticeable.
To me, much depends on Eli (can he get his mojo back) and Shurmur (can he inspire).
Many of the top teams arent too different from this. What separates them from the others is they have superior coaching. We have supposedly upgraded coaching significantly in all 3 phases. Along those same lines, our coaches will likely put our players in best position to succeed and now you've got a good recipe for success.
On D you have, Snacks, Tomlinson, Vernon, Ogletree, Jenkins and Collins. That’s six way better than average players. Only a few more guys stepping up and this could be a D like 2016.
The O is similar. OBJ, Barkley and Engram to go with a “second tier” of Eli, Shepard, Solder, Hernandez and Ellison. Wouldn’t take much more for this to a a pretty good unit.
I don’t know if those next guys are on this team. Can guys like Apple, Thompson, Martin, Carter, Mauro, Hill, Omameh, Flowers, Wheeler, Jones or Latimer be solid contributors. Who knows.
They can also go from 11-5 to 3-13.....
What Shurm and DG have to do, is try and fix one part of the team this year.....and then work on another part, the next year....
What can't happen is, we try to fix something this year and it's still broke next year....
What has Shurm done in the past? Well he was the HC of the Browns......did we sign him based on one year as OC for the Vikings? I hope not....
DG looks like he had a good draft.....he should....there was only one team drafting ahead of him in each round...in any draft, you usually get one good starter....sometimes you get two.....BBI thinks we got 5.....
I have no idea what these draft picks will do, until we see them play in the preseason....
To me, this team has tom show progress and start to create a winning attitude......
I'd like to think we are in just about every game, instead of our season being over before Halloween...
This team hit rock bottom last season, and the only way is up....
I think the defense is going to have growing problems, and the offense will have to carry the load, early on....but that only happens if this OL shows much improvement in the running and passing game...I hope Shurm is a HC can that make adjustments, something Mac had no clue of doing....
I think we see improvement this season, and agree with George, that next year we make our move....
Winning more games this year doesn't mean they are a winning team. I think they can become a winning team in 2019 but extremely concerned how that plays out knowing the age/decline of play from Eli between now and then...
Quote:
A New offense, new defense usually takes time. 4/5 new starters on the OL rarely produces great results right away
Just in the last year, we've seen Minny and the Rams revamp their OL. Also, the change to a new OC or DC often yields immediate results. We've seen hue leaps made by teams like the Seahawks or Falcons simply by having a new coordinator.
The Redskins implemented the Wildcat with RGIII and went from worst to first. That type of thing happens each year in the modern game.
+1
I also do not agree with the premise of the OP. Obviously the author of this thread has a bias in that he wanted a qb instead of Barkley, so it seems to me he has an agenda that may not be unbiased. Nevertheless, he drew faulty conclusions.
But maybe next year
I don't know what the results will be once the season starts, but I believe the giants will be very competitive and will be in most games. Is it too much to think we are somewhere in the 7-9 and 9-7 range? Maybe a bounce or 2 goes our way and we have 10 wins competing for the division or wild card.
To say anything about this team right now is just way too early. They haven't had training camp or preseason. They only had 1 OTA so far.
Is Eli still even close to being a top twenty NFL QB?
OBJ is he going to be the same player prior to injury?
Will all those breaks that went against us go our way this year?
Did we really have a good defense or was it what we saw last year?
Lots of high paid players but nothing special from them on the field?
The OL and DL how long to figure out who starts and for how long?
New coaching staff how will that work out as the losses pile up?
This is N.Y. losers will find it hard to survive no matter the causes.
They will devise plans with the players they have to try to win as many games as they can. Some plans are great. Look at the improvement of the Rams. Some plans suck. See McAdoo's Giants.
last year was the wake up call, OL/DB/RB's are all below average.
It will take another good draft /FA and some luck . If the cards fall right I could see them challenging in 2019.
If Eli finally matures, and his TD/INT becomes something like 30+/10 -.
Who knows??
Barely over .500? They're 42-54 (.438) since the Super Bowl.
And "if Eli finally matures"? He's 37. I'd say he's mature.
It'll take a few games for them to solidify under a new set of systems and new players.
They are set up for > 3 Wins, possibly 6-7 . A couple of good games, right bounces, healthy, even more wins.
We all said it was a 2-3 year draft and FA to turn this team around.
Offseason 1 made great strides. We'll find out about the team as the games are played.
If the W-L early is 1-4 But becomes 4-6 after game 10 and 7-9/8-8 at seasons end and 'arrow up' ,we'll be attractive for FAs, and drafting 14-20 should get 2-3 more immediate starters.
Well be fine.
Last week, Voicing an opinion that if Darnold becomes a star and Giants do not win with Eli, Webb or Lauletta, would show the Giants made a collosal blunder in this draft, got me labeled as a guy who was just looking for a reason to be angry, among other things.
Now when it is obvious from the owner down that within the organization this is viewed as a win now team, we read that even with a 37 year old quarterback on a two year contract, that the Giants are in a rebuild.
You can t spend two months arguing the Giants should build around Eli for another run, and then when you get your wish, state they are not a win now team. You can t have it both ways.
I was all in on Darnold, still think Giants might have made a mistake, but hoping I am wrong.
If I am , I will be first one to admit it. Drafting Barkley was the best move for the short term. That term begins this season.
When I look at the deficiencies I start with OL and WR on offense...both depleted by injuries deep into the roster. Then I look at our not having an adequate runningback..as if any but an absolute magician could have gained much behind that OL. It's only after all that stuff that I look to Eli and see a season where he just didn't have a chance.
We've dramatically improved the OL, we drafted an all world RB and our stellar WRs are coming back healthy. Depth will still be an issue.
Injuries also decimated the defense especially at LB and DB. We have better LBs now and if Eli Apple gets his head around and Gay has anything left.
RT is a concern, yes, but thats generally the strong side and whoever stars can get chip help from the TE.
10-6 this season. Is that enough for a playoff game. Who knows?!?
Then of course it was mistake.....
It's all about winning Super Bowls
Huh? Minny were heavy favorites and fell on their face against the Eagles and the Rams gotten beaten by a team that outplayed the eventual SB champs in their own building for the majority of that game.
But we have linebackers with potential! WOO!!!
Maybe 11-5 wasn't as good as it seemed. But all things considered, perhaps 3-13 - with a few breaks (lost to the Bucs by 2, lost to the Chargers by 5, lost to the Raiders by a touchdown, the Lions game was a one-score contest going into the 4th, the Niners game was 17-13 at the half, and the first Redskins game was a 10-10 tie with under 4 minutes left.
As bad as things were, one or two plays in each of those games? Well, we don't have Barkley, BUT people wouldn't be moaning about the 3-13 mark. Might be more like 8-8.
So shaddup shuttin' up!
Quote:
Giants have been bad for years, barely over .500 since SB.
last year was the wake up call, OL/DB/RB's are all below average.
It will take another good draft /FA and some luck . If the cards fall right I could see them challenging in 2019.
If Eli finally matures, and his TD/INT becomes something like 30+/10 -.
Who knows??
Barely over .500? They're 42-54 (.438) since the Super Bowl.
And "if Eli finally matures"? He's 37. I'd say he's mature.
Really? see what happens when you try to give Giants the benefit of doubt.
By mature, I mean he stops making stupid rookie mistakes and develops into a QB who make the right decision . For example a 3/1 or better TD/INT ratio
That is why I say he has 2 years left... coincidentally the remainder of his contract
they won 3 games with team as they stood,add barkley worth 2 wins alone, overhaul the DL 1-2 more where they wore down late in games, and offence line upgrades adds 2 wins,beckham is worth 2 more wins easy in a full season,using engram/ellison better another win or two, even if you subtract a couple for the tougher schedule and growing pains from OL and DL needing time to gel,that puts them in the hunt for a playoff place 9 or 10 wins would not be a stretch
couple more and the division is a possibility
i think they still need another OL (maybe 2),another top level passrusher and next years draft is loaded on that front, ideally another shutdown CB (unless apple turns around and william gay has some return to past form),another WR a bigger outside guy in the plax mould 6-4/6-5 redzone threat but EVERY nfc team particularly has a weakness in some area so they could shock everyone ala 2007
that rag tag excuse for a team was robbed in both games against the eagles last year with a depleted roster they were never a 3-13 team talent wise but considering the players they got from that could be perfect storm to turn them around fast, or they could suck and end up 3 wins again and be picking top 5 again who knows until they hit the field but i like their chances ..on paper
What clouds many's expectant outlook, is that the splash acquisitions of named talent have not been forthcoming in the secondary, nonetheless a huge influx of young prospect's has been added to the roster. Campbell, Hanley, and Davis all have a chance to stick. Overall the team speed has greatly improved, with the skill positions loaded with playmakers.
Therefore I would suggest that we wait until at least training camp to form opinions when we will have a larger sample size to make projections.
Yeah talent wise they more of a 2-14 team.
The bad news is that - on paper - the Giants look like a top heavy team with some very talented players but that quality quickly dissipates when you get to the middle of the roster. For example, we have an awesome starting CB and outside WR, but the drop off after that is extremely noticeable.
To me, much depends on Eli (can he get his mojo back) and Shurmur (can he inspire).
I think if this team can stay healthy; be inspired by Shurmur and staff; and just win a few last play games rather than lose them all; well, we could be competitive. My guess is anywhere from 6 - 10 to 10-6.
Our schedule, on paper, does not look easy so the WINS may not be there even if the play is improved.
KEYS: Eli gets his mojo back; OBJ dominates; Engram dominates inside; OL gels; and, the defense creates pressure.
I know Reese was never able to assemble a decent OL
Yes....I assume Shurmur will be better than McAdoo.
Yes....I assume DG is assembling a decent OL
Yes.....I assume the Giants arrow is pointing up
Eli sucks something awful & Barkley isn't going to fix that. That's also assuming Barkley is the real deal, which isn't guaranteed.
The Eagles are still the team to beat in the East.
The Redskins could be the surprise challenger of the East with a winning QB in Alex Smith, stud RB in the making of Guice & a Defense that's going to put the hurtin' on people if they can stay healthy.
Dallas will struggle to win 8 games with the loss of Dez & Witten & Dak sucks about as bad as Eli.
The Nfc East will be between Eagles & Redskins.
Giants are probably looking at a 5-11 or 6-10 season. Could be worse.
Maybe next season...we'll see.
What I am getting at is, that I think we will actually contend this year. That given the talent and speed at our skill positions the O will complement the D in a manner that could lead to an unexpected run this season rather the wait till next. The Eagles may be loaded and talented but, they will be hard-pressed to defend against what the Giants will deploy on O this season, as will the rest of the league.
On D our opponents are going to be completely caught off guard because DC B's schemes will be on their maiden voyage and each week there will be changes unique to the opposing O that will be novel and unexpected. Also, I think that the talent of the front seven may be greater than was assembled in Arizona. I also expect our ST to be vastly improved.
So while I am in agreement with you on the prospects on the future, I believe that it may be closer than anticipated. I think we will witness a special season after enduring such a gut wrenching one.
Eli sucks something awful & Barkley isn't going to fix that. That's also assuming Barkley is the real deal, which isn't guaranteed.
The Eagles are still the team to beat in the East.
The Redskins could be the surprise challenger of the East with a winning QB in Alex Smith, stud RB in the making of Guice & a Defense that's going to put the hurtin' on people if they can stay healthy.
Dallas will struggle to win 8 games with the loss of Dez & Witten & Dak sucks about as bad as Eli.
The Nfc East will be between Eagles & Redskins.
Giants are probably looking at a 5-11 or 6-10 season. Could be worse.
Maybe next season...we'll see.
You just said Eli sucks but then said Alex Smith is a "winning QB"? Which one of those players has 2 super bowl MVPs?
"Maybe next season"... So I'm guessing you won't be watching this season then? And what do you say could change between now and next season that would give someone like you any cause for hope? We'll still have Eli as QB, or if not then it will be Webb, and I doubt you would have anything good to say about that, right?
Maybe we should just forfeit the next 5 seasons, pick first in every draft, and hope by 2023 we'll have the best team in the league.
Eli sucks something awful & Barkley isn't going to fix that. That's also assuming Barkley is the real deal, which isn't guaranteed.
The Eagles are still the team to beat in the East.
The Redskins could be the surprise challenger of the East with a winning QB in Alex Smith, stud RB in the making of Guice & a Defense that's going to put the hurtin' on people if they can stay healthy.
Dallas will struggle to win 8 games with the loss of Dez & Witten & Dak sucks about as bad as Eli.
The Nfc East will be between Eagles & Redskins.
Giants are probably looking at a 5-11 or 6-10 season. Could be worse.
Maybe next season...we'll see.
Oh, also... so Guice is already a stud RB, but whether or not Barkley is the real deal remains to be seen? Do you enjoy being a fan of this team at all with this attitude??
I think we would be asking too much, if we are expecting a Super Bowl run coming from 3-13. I get it...they won twice from 9-7 wild card and if you make the playoffs.... anything is possible.
But I at least now see an NFL OL forming....I still want a stud at center and RT, a proven 3rd wideout, another proven corner..and some depth.......does Jones, Wheeler, Latimor and one of the 15 DBs Excel? Sure, it's possible....
I am just saying, let's wait a year