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Mara has given Eli Manning everything....

sxdxca : 5/16/2018 10:47 pm
He went out and brought in a GM who has publicly said he has seen no drop off in Eli's arm or talent.

He went out and brought in an offensive minded coach , who has done wonders for other QB's , and has publicly said Eli has years left.

He used the 2nd overall pick in the entire draft to bring in Barkley , the most explosive RB in over a decade.

He used the 34th overall pick in the draft to bring in Hernandez , who may be the 2nd best guard in the entire draft.

He went out and signed , in fact overspent for the best LT in free agency , Solder.

He has what many consider to be one of the best WR's in the game , Beckham at age 25 coming back.

He has last years 1st rd pick Engram at TE , and an emerging star , lining up again for him.

He has Shepard , a 2nd rd pick at WR , who if he played a full 16 game season , would have put up a 1,000 yard season.

He also has a decent backup RB in Gallman , to spell Barkley from time to time.

Eli should be very grateful at 37 , that he has an owner who believes this much in him , considering how bad last year was.

Personally after comparing Eli's tape from 2004 to 2017 , it seems he hasn't lost too much on arm strength.

However I have seen a decline in his mobility , compared to 2004 , he is much slower , in fact very slow.

Mara has given Eli virtually everything he can to succeed.

It is now up to Eli to come through for his owner , team , and fans , and play QB at a championship level.

The question is will he?

We will have to wait and see


.  
arcarsenal : 5/16/2018 10:49 pm : link
A truly riveting tale!
It's true. Good post. I think he felt like he owed it to Eli  
DennyInDenville : 5/16/2018 10:51 pm : link
After the benching for Geno Smith .. that was horrible.

But I think I'm with Mr. Mara , Dg, and Pat, let's go get another ring for Eli!

I still believe in Eli.

His play in GB in 2016 playoffs was elite , Elite. His WRs simply didn't show up but his throws were sharp as ever
I can't figure out what mode you are going for here...  
chopperhatch : 5/16/2018 10:54 pm : link
Too long for a haiku. Too short for a script. Rhyme scheme doesn't fit that of a sonnet and you have one too many lines.

I say delete, rewatch Dead Poets Society and go back to the drawing board. We expect more out of you.
Well  
chopperhatch : 5/16/2018 10:55 pm : link
DennytheDumDum likes it....so carry on I guess.
They should bring him  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/16/2018 10:57 pm : link
a shrubbery
Can this be sung t the tune of  
Jay in Toronto : 5/16/2018 11:05 pm : link
Dayenu?
The Falcons  
WillVAB : 5/16/2018 11:23 pm : link
Have done way more for Ryan the last decade without any hardware to show for it.
He hasn't done anything for Elir per se  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/16/2018 11:25 pm : link
He has done what he thinks will make the team competitive again. And they obviously think that Eli is part of that answer.
Mara Is Making Up For ...  
Trainmaster : 5/16/2018 11:36 pm : link
not firing Reese instead of (or in addition to) Coughlin

putting up with the terrible drafting and generally poor decision making since Super Bowl XLVI

and

for hiring Mc*d** as head coach.

Eli is still owed more.

Well, Mara essentially declared this...  
bw in dc : 5/16/2018 11:40 pm : link
was going to be the plan after co-GMs Accorsi and Gettleman said they thought Manning still had plenty left in the fuel tank. No surprises to me.

If you believe in that plan, then Jints Central have executed it to a tee.

So I agree - Manning has a fridge full of food. And there really shouldn't be any excuses.

RE: Well, Mara essentially declared this...  
Giants34 : 5/17/2018 12:41 am : link
In comment 13966215 bw in dc said:
Quote:
was going to be the plan after co-GMs Accorsi and Gettleman said they thought Manning still had plenty left in the fuel tank. No surprises to me.

If you believe in that plan, then Jints Central have executed it to a tee.

So I agree - Manning has a fridge full of food. And there really shouldn't be any excuses.


BW: We are lockstep in this; we have been since before the draft. Frankly, I don't believe Gettleman or Shurmur believe Eli has four or five years left. They may believe he has two years left, but I refuse to believe that any individual qualified to coach or GM a team can actually look at the film and say that Manning has years left. I mean, any layman can tell that his play has been garbage the last two years, and that is not all due to people not named Manning.

I think Mara wants to send Eli off with a better goodbye. I think DSG was deathly afraid to make his first pick the QB who replaced Eli, especially after he saw the vitriol spilled after Manning's streak ended. And if DSG really believed that Eli was the elite player he was years ago, he wouldn't have picked Lauletta in round 4.

This is all about one simple thing: Eli is now out of excuses. He's gotten a new LT in Solder, a new LG, and a new RG. So he has 3/5 of a new offensive line. He has Beckham back. He has the best RB prospect - possibly ever - to come out. He has Engram entering his second season. He has a QB whisperer as coach - the same guy who took Case Keenum and coaxed a 22 TD, 7 INT season out of the guy.

So, one of two things will happen: 1) Eli will continue his regression, be out of excuses, and DSG can move on to a young QB (not a retread like Smith) with no repercussions; or 2) Eli will rebound significantly, and if he rebounds enough, we could make a run, and DSG gets to go, I told you so. But if Eli is regressing, and we passed on a QB at the top of this draft (and one hits), he really screwed us unless we hit the lottery with Lauletta or Webb, which remains exceedingly unlikely based on sheer odds.
Dave Gettleman throughout his career, if anything,  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 12:52 am : link
Has shown that he doesnt give a single shit what lay people and people within the game think. The idea that DG was "afraid to draft Eli's replacement" his so hilariously ridiculous to consider.

This ability that some posters believe they have of being able to perceive what a pro football GM is factoring during the course of making decisions that they are paid HUGE money to make is so fucking dumb that I find it adorable.
RE: RE: Well, Mara essentially declared this...  
Knee of Theismann : 5/17/2018 12:57 am : link
In comment 13966221 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 13966215 bw in dc said:


Quote:


was going to be the plan after co-GMs Accorsi and Gettleman said they thought Manning still had plenty left in the fuel tank. No surprises to me.

If you believe in that plan, then Jints Central have executed it to a tee.

So I agree - Manning has a fridge full of food. And there really shouldn't be any excuses.




BW: We are lockstep in this; we have been since before the draft. Frankly, I don't believe Gettleman or Shurmur believe Eli has four or five years left. They may believe he has two years left, but I refuse to believe that any individual qualified to coach or GM a team can actually look at the film and say that Manning has years left. I mean, any layman can tell that his play has been garbage the last two years, and that is not all due to people not named Manning.

I think Mara wants to send Eli off with a better goodbye. I think DSG was deathly afraid to make his first pick the QB who replaced Eli, especially after he saw the vitriol spilled after Manning's streak ended. And if DSG really believed that Eli was the elite player he was years ago, he wouldn't have picked Lauletta in round 4.

This is all about one simple thing: Eli is now out of excuses. He's gotten a new LT in Solder, a new LG, and a new RG. So he has 3/5 of a new offensive line. He has Beckham back. He has the best RB prospect - possibly ever - to come out. He has Engram entering his second season. He has a QB whisperer as coach - the same guy who took Case Keenum and coaxed a 22 TD, 7 INT season out of the guy.

So, one of two things will happen: 1) Eli will continue his regression, be out of excuses, and DSG can move on to a young QB (not a retread like Smith) with no repercussions; or 2) Eli will rebound significantly, and if he rebounds enough, we could make a run, and DSG gets to go, I told you so. But if Eli is regressing, and we passed on a QB at the top of this draft (and one hits), he really screwed us unless we hit the lottery with Lauletta or Webb, which remains exceedingly unlikely based on sheer odds.


In 2016 Eli threw for 4000+ yards, 63% completion, 26 TDs, 16 INTs, 86.0 rating. I don't call that "garbage". It's not pro bowl worthy, but it's decent. He also performed pretty decently in the playoff game in Green Bay, but his receivers all played like shit.

2014 and 2015: he threw for combined almost 9000 yards, 65 TDs, 28 INTs, 93.0 rating.

Last year he had literally no o-line and no receivers and no running game. I doubt in a span of just two years he's become a completely different player than he was in 2014 and 2015. With Eli it is a lot about confidence: he needs to know he has time to throw and he needs a running game. When he has those things he has what it takes to win. Jerry Reese knew nothing about building an o-line, his two super bowls were mostly won with o-linemen he himself had nothing to do with. Now we have a GM who knows what he's doing when it comes to o-line. I refuse to give up on Eli based on one season of shitty stats where he had literally zero help around him.
RE: Dave Gettleman throughout his career, if anything,  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/17/2018 3:33 am : link
In comment 13966222 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Has shown that he doesnt give a single shit what lay people and people within the game think. The idea that DG was "afraid to draft Eli's replacement" his so hilariously ridiculous to consider.

This ability that some posters believe they have of being able to perceive what a pro football GM is factoring during the course of making decisions that they are paid HUGE money to make is so fucking dumb that I find it adorable.

How much is HUGE money? How much does Dave Gettleman make?

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I don't think DG's pay grade (especially since it's never been published) is relevant. And I kind of think the purpose of a message board is to discuss opinions, even if they're dissenting (as long as they're informed and researched).
The Giants think an old Eli would give them a better chance to win  
George from PA : 5/17/2018 4:41 am : link
Then a young rookie QB. How hard is that to comprehend?

If anyone owes Eli anything, it's Reese who never was able to rebuild the OL that Ernie built..7 years by my count.
Great post man...  
Allen in CNJ : 5/17/2018 5:01 am : link
and like many of you I've watched basically every snap of Eli's career, so we all know what we're looking at.

Arm strength is good, release is good, yadda yadda yadda.

The one thing that has been Eli's biggest issue in his down years is his O-Line; if his O-line has been injured or sub par his play drops. What I mean, is the O-Line's performance has dictated his play.

It's almost like he gets the Yips when the O-Line is not playing well or isn't a good unit -- he's only done well when he's been CONFIDENT in the guys in front of him!

So if this rebuilt O-Line is good, we very well might see him make a comeback.
RE: RE: Dave Gettleman throughout his career, if anything,  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 5:44 am : link
In comment 13966225 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13966222 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


Has shown that he doesnt give a single shit what lay people and people within the game think. The idea that DG was "afraid to draft Eli's replacement" his so hilariously ridiculous to consider.

This ability that some posters believe they have of being able to perceive what a pro football GM is factoring during the course of making decisions that they are paid HUGE money to make is so fucking dumb that I find it adorable.


How much is HUGE money? How much does Dave Gettleman make?

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I don't think DG's pay grade (especially since it's never been published) is relevant. And I kind of think the purpose of a message board is to discuss opinions, even if they're dissenting (as long as they're informed and researched).


Dunk, I meant HUGE relative to what most people are paid...Or even non NFL/pro sport General Managers. I was trying to illustrate that he is paid very well for his expertise in assembling a football team and that his ability to judge talent, not the fear of pissing off fans, is what made him decide not to go QB this year.
These are the tools Eli needs to complete at a high level.  
NorwoodWideRight : 5/17/2018 5:47 am : link
So Mara is really doing the team a favor, not Eli.
RE: RE: Well, Mara essentially declared this...  
JCin332 : 5/17/2018 5:56 am : link
In comment 13966221 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 13966215 bw in dc said:


Quote:


was going to be the plan after co-GMs Accorsi and Gettleman said they thought Manning still had plenty left in the fuel tank. No surprises to me.

If you believe in that plan, then Jints Central have executed it to a tee.

So I agree - Manning has a fridge full of food. And there really shouldn't be any excuses.




BW: We are lockstep in this; we have been since before the draft. Frankly, I don't believe Gettleman or Shurmur believe Eli has four or five years left. They may believe he has two years left, but I refuse to believe that any individual qualified to coach or GM a team can actually look at the film and say that Manning has years left. I mean, any layman can tell that his play has been garbage the last two years, and that is not all due to people not named Manning.

I think Mara wants to send Eli off with a better goodbye. I think DSG was deathly afraid to make his first pick the QB who replaced Eli, especially after he saw the vitriol spilled after Manning's streak ended. And if DSG really believed that Eli was the elite player he was years ago, he wouldn't have picked Lauletta in round 4.

This is all about one simple thing: Eli is now out of excuses. He's gotten a new LT in Solder, a new LG, and a new RG. So he has 3/5 of a new offensive line. He has Beckham back. He has the best RB prospect - possibly ever - to come out. He has Engram entering his second season. He has a QB whisperer as coach - the same guy who took Case Keenum and coaxed a 22 TD, 7 INT season out of the guy.

So, one of two things will happen: 1) Eli will continue his regression, be out of excuses, and DSG can move on to a young QB (not a retread like Smith) with no repercussions; or 2) Eli will rebound significantly, and if he rebounds enough, we could make a run, and DSG gets to go, I told you so. But if Eli is regressing, and we passed on a QB at the top of this draft (and one hits), he really screwed us unless we hit the lottery with Lauletta or Webb, which remains exceedingly unlikely based on sheer odds.


Wow I'll tell you some people really do live in a fucking fantasy world...ok and keep being in lockstep with bw...

And to the OP's point...its about time considering the shit he has been surrounded with the last 5 years...hopefully its not to late considering the years that have been wasted...
Mara failed  
DavidinBMNY : 5/17/2018 6:32 am : link
There's not much else to this. Mara made massive mistakes picking Reese over Coughlin 2 years ago and then hiring McAdoo as the head coach. His trust in Reese Reese's trust in Ross and there draft approach is one of the worst in the league.

The Giants wouldn't be in this position today if 2 years ago they fired Reese.

And the fixes being made are so captain obvious, as fans we're practically giddy.
Hey let's fix the OL (Has been broken since 2012)!
Hey let's get some quality LB play (has been missing for as long as I can recall in recent times)
Hey let's get a stud RB - (truely missing since Tiki - but you could say maybe since Bradshaw)

I mean if you look at draft magazines these issues are there every year and Reese couldn't address them.

How can you not fix the OL since 2012? How is that possible?

Mara's failure was utter and complete. The people he choose executed a plan he had to endorse. Period.
Eli or after Eli, the rest od the team is young  
Paulie Walnuts : 5/17/2018 6:35 am : link
so say the let Eli walk after 2 years,Gettlemen spends 2019/2020 restocking the team with young talent and depth. we have a huge cap space once Eli's gone, a good, young team we can watch grow for 5 years.. It all good
Isnít a GM suppose to  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 6:38 am : link
Field the best team possible? You know.... most GMs do the same thing.
I donít think this was about Eli  
BillT : 5/17/2018 6:48 am : link
If there was a QB they liked at #2 they would have taken him. All the other things they did were what would have done no matter who they took at #1. I think Eli has enough left to lead a winning team but that wasnít what was the deciding factor in their moves. Building a winning team is what this is about. Iím sure theyíre glad to have Eli but this wasnít about him.
We will find out if a healthy Eli  
Big Blue '56 : 5/17/2018 6:49 am : link
whose lack of protection and running game the last bunch of years, does indeed have ďPTSD.Ē We will find out if he can overcome this or is deeply ingrained in his psyche.

The end for Eli or a genuine rebirth for the next few years.

Exciting
When Simms was nearing  
joeinpa : 5/17/2018 7:19 am : link
The end, I was all in on Giants allowing him to be the quarterback until he just couldn't play anymore.

I attribute that loyalty to the drought of 1963 to 1980. During that period it was almost impossible for Giants fans to envision a rise to the top; Simms was the quarterback that got the team there.

So I get the loyalty to Eli, even though I disagree with the philosophy of rebuilding around him. I was ready for Eli to hold the fort til a Darnold was ready.

Wonder if it s a generational thing.
Eli gave Mara two Super Bowl rings  
JohnB : 5/17/2018 7:46 am : link
Mara is paying him back.

I'm good with that.
I still  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 8:15 am : link
have a hard time reconciling how the owner is both a bumbling idiot and yet a deft puppet master at the same time.

How he's hoodwinked everyone and put players career's in jeopardy just to give old Eli a good sendoff.

A more logical explanation is that the posters who come up with these theories are fucking morons. And pretty much beat the same drum over and over again.

Guess what - look at sxdxca's posting history. The guy is a fucking trainwreck who has posted a variation of this shit countless times.
what great morning. rainy, dank, shitty weather  
Victor in CT : 5/17/2018 8:18 am : link
and yet another stupid Eli post.
some of you...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/17/2018 8:18 am : link
...are going to be critical of the way Eli ties his shoes...

oh, and Hernandez may be the best OLineman in the entire draft.
RE: Eli gave Mara two Super Bowl rings  
Rory : 5/17/2018 8:21 am : link
In comment 13966258 JohnB said:
Quote:
Mara is paying him back.

I'm good with that.


100% agree, Mara family is in debt to Eli's services. Too bad we have giants fans who struggle with this

I also think he's making up for the removal of Tom Coughlin which Eli was known be to close with

LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 8:25 am : link
Mara owes everything to Eli for his 2 SB's, but he can just discard TC because he was just along for the ride....

Logic isn't really a strong point is it?
This has been an amazing three week run...  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 8:27 am : link
with no end in sight.
Sxdxca - I like the idea that Mara did all those things for Eli  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 8:39 am : link
as opposed to the NY Giants. So if Eli doesnt come thru and win the big one, do all those players turn into pumpkins or something in your view?

Oh, and I particularly love the quote "He also has a decent backup RB in Gallman, to spell Barkley from time to time." How generous of Mara to provide Eli more than just one running back...
Since Mara..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 8:48 am : link
has done all of these great things, why do we even need Gettleman?
Maybe to get to the final 53 man roster  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 8:51 am : link
but probably could dump DG then...
He did all this just for Eli?  
Gman11 : 5/17/2018 8:53 am : link
I think he did it for the New York Giants.

He brought in Gettlemen. Gettlemen, in his evaluation, thought Eli was still a good player. He was not brought in because of his evaluation of Eli. He was brought in based on his vision on returning the team to competitiveness.

The people he acquired - Barkley, Solder, etc. were not specifically for Eli. They were to upgrade a putrid offense. These additions were needed no matter who the QB is.

Yes, Eli needs to perform. When you get paid $20million a year you need to be more than just average. However, whatever they've done to improve the offense was done to make the Giants better, not to appease Eli.
I wonder..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 8:56 am : link
who was being appeased when Mara signed Jenkins, Vernon and Snacks?

Or was that Reese going rogue and giving the Manning family a virtual slap in the face.

With a gloveless hand, of course.
Iím glad to know that if our QB wasnít Eli Manning  
UConn4523 : 5/17/2018 8:59 am : link
weíd stop trying to improve the offense. Good thread.
RE: I donít think this was about Eli  
KeoweeFan : 5/17/2018 9:00 am : link
In comment 13966242 BillT said:
Quote:
If there was a QB they liked at #2 they would have taken him. All the other things they did were what would have done no matter who they took at #1. I think Eli has enough left to lead a winning team but that wasnít what was the deciding factor in their moves. Building a winning team is what this is about. Iím sure theyíre glad to have Eli but this wasnít about him.

^ THIS!
- I don't think management is focused on a Super Bowl run. They need to dig themselves out of a hole and want to at least have a "competitive" team the next year or two.

- The game changes and with it the relative value of a specific position (e.g. RBs in the last decade). It may be that ELITE QBs are not necessary at this point in time; an intelligent QB who can make decisions at the line to counter the new hybrid defenses, running a well balanced offense with many weapons may be sufficient as last season seemed to demonstrate. If anyone, Shula and Shurmur can make such an offense work (and Webb and Lauletta are two good candidates for such a scheme).
RE: I wonder..  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 9:03 am : link
In comment 13966306 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
who was being appeased when Mara signed Jenkins, Vernon and Snacks?

Or was that Reese going rogue and giving the Manning family a virtual slap in the face.

With a gloveless hand, of course.


Or trade for Ogletree.
Think of all the extra cap money we will have once Eli  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 9:06 am : link
wins it all and we can shed ourselves of all these players.

We will be set forever...

Regardless  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2018 9:06 am : link
of how one feels about Eli Manning, the pressure is indeed on him to rebound and win games. In recent years, there have been viable "excuses" why he has struggled. Those excuses are disappearing now.
Some of you come across  
joeinpa : 5/17/2018 9:07 am : link
As saying Mara felt he owed Eli another chance, rather than he believed Eli could still win.

Do you actually believe a now Palio's jeopardize a season for any player

He might be right or he could be wrong.

But Eli has been well compensated over his career, the Giants don t owe him.

Also there is this, Eli did not elevate the team despite it s deficiencies. To me that equates to being part of the problem. Giants were right to take a look at Geno and Webb last season. Their mistake was not sticking to the plan.
RE: Sxdxca - I like the idea that Mara did all those things for Eli  
TMS : 5/17/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13966293 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
as opposed to the NY Giants. So if Eli doesnt come thru and win the big one, do all those players turn into pumpkins or something in your view?

Oh, and I particularly love the quote "He also has a decent backup RB in Gallman, to spell Barkley from time to time." How generous of Mara to provide Eli more than just one running back...
Think Mara under the advice of DG. Shurmur and Shula was convinced ELI still has the talent to win. We got close in 2016. So why not if we stay healthy with this new cast. Better than waiting 2/3 years for a new guy to step up if ever. MO
RE: Regardless  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13966315 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
of how one feels about Eli Manning, the pressure is indeed on him to rebound and win games. In recent years, there have been viable "excuses" why he has struggled. Those excuses are disappearing now.


One guy never wins or loses a game.

The elephant in the room is still the OLine. Jones is a qustion mark and we dont know who is playing RT. Omabuah or however you spell his name is a castoff. Our rookie is still a rookie.

Just because we got new OL, doesnt mean its improved until they show it on the field.
RE: Regardless  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13966315 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
of how one feels about Eli Manning, the pressure is indeed on him to rebound and win games. In recent years, there have been viable "excuses" why he has struggled. Those excuses are disappearing now.


Those excuses do not disappear until we have an average offensive line in front of him, which we haven't had for nearly 7 years.

Not great, not above average, but just average....
Britt/dep  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2018 9:17 am : link
I can't find myself agreeing with those who say Eli is garbage. At the same time, I can't find myself agreeing with those who say Eli wasn't a significant factor in the offensive problems. I find myself in the middle on this one.

There aren't many good OLs in the NFL anymore. That said, the Giants' OL was clearly one of the worst in the league.

It's difficult to envision that this OL will be awful in 2018. It should be at least middle of the road now with potential issues at center and right tackle.

But how many teams have a Beckham-Shepard-Engram-Barkley arsenal?

Eli has become a losing QB. He's got to turn that around.
I think he can....  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 9:20 am : link
but he also needs more than 1.9 seconds to get rid of the ball, which is about all the time he had on average last season.
RE: I think he can....  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 13966331 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
but he also needs more than 1.9 seconds to get rid of the ball, which is about all the time he had on average last season.


And there were times when he had time but had happy feet, rushed his throw, and badly missed wide open guys deep.

Now one can argue he had happy feet because he has become accustomed to poor pass protection and his internal clock is off.

I have said, and will continue to say, that I've seen enough football in my life to know that sometimes don't get their courage back. I pray Eli does. But it's not a given.
Just checked, his average time to throw last season was 2.5 seconds...  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 9:23 am : link
good for 28th in the NFL.

But there were plenty of jailbreaks where he had way less. I'm fairly confident, as one talking head said the other day, you can thank Eli for moving in the pocket to buy extra time, not the line.
RE: RE: I think he can....  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 13966333 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13966331 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


but he also needs more than 1.9 seconds to get rid of the ball, which is about all the time he had on average last season.



And there were times when he had time but had happy feet, rushed his throw, and badly missed wide open guys deep.

Now one can argue he had happy feet because he has become accustomed to poor pass protection and his internal clock is off.

I have said, and will continue to say, that I've seen enough football in my life to know that sometimes don't get their courage back. I pray Eli does. But it's not a given.


We know that QB is a rhythm position. They have to get into a rhythm. Neither the o-line or McAdoo's bizarre playcalling ever really allowed that to happen.

I'm hopeful to see what it will look like with perceived improvements to both of those areas.
Eli has clearly been part of the problem  
JonC : 5/17/2018 9:26 am : link
now, he has perhaps his best opportunity in recent seasons to lead the team and be part of the solution.

Not acknowledging the former is ignoring a significant piece of problem puzzle.
It's about resetting that internal clock.  
mittenedman : 5/17/2018 9:28 am : link
My only worry with Eli is he has David Carr syndrome.

Shurmur is truly one of the masterful playcallers in the league. Old school. He'll keep the heat off Eli by tying the defense in knots with run/play action. The defense will be looking for Barkley off the bus.

Now - I expect Eli to be fine after a full offseason because he's got ice in his veins and Shurmur is the QB Whisperer. But Flowers, Hart, Reese & McAdoo could've caused permanent damage.
RE: Britt/dep  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 9:47 am : link
In comment 13966329 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I can't find myself agreeing with those who say Eli is garbage. At the same time, I can't find myself agreeing with those who say Eli wasn't a significant factor in the offensive problems. I find myself in the middle on this one.

There aren't many good OLs in the NFL anymore. That said, the Giants' OL was clearly one of the worst in the league.

It's difficult to envision that this OL will be awful in 2018. It should be at least middle of the road now with potential issues at center and right tackle.

But how many teams have a Beckham-Shepard-Engram-Barkley arsenal?

Eli has become a losing QB. He's got to turn that around.


I think the lack of deep throws in our offense hurts any QBs rhythm to throw them. Letís put it this way... the more deep throws we make, the better a rhythm will develop. I think the miss throw were magnified because we threw so little of them. Now with a run game and threat of play action... we should be able to take more shots and like you said.... with a great set of skilled players I expect more completions.
RE: Sxdxca - I like the idea that Mara did all those things for Eli  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 13966293 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
as opposed to the NY Giants. So if Eli doesnt come thru and win the big one, do all those players turn into pumpkins or something in your view?

Oh, and I particularly love the quote "He also has a decent backup RB in Gallman, to spell Barkley from time to time." How generous of Mara to provide Eli more than just one running back...


Dear Jimmy ,

Eli had Gallman last year as well , just saying Eli is now surrounded with a substantial amount of talent.

I mean more so than many QB's in the league. We need him to come through , and I want him too , that's all.
RE: Great post man...  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 13966228 Allen in CNJ said:
Quote:
and like many of you I've watched basically every snap of Eli's career, so we all know what we're looking at.

Arm strength is good, release is good, yadda yadda yadda.

The one thing that has been Eli's biggest issue in his down years is his O-Line; if his O-line has been injured or sub par his play drops. What I mean, is the O-Line's performance has dictated his play.

It's almost like he gets the Yips when the O-Line is not playing well or isn't a good unit -- he's only done well when he's been CONFIDENT in the guys in front of him!

So if this rebuilt O-Line is good, we very well might see him make a comeback.


Thanks Allan
RE: RE: RE: Well, Mara essentially declared this...  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 13966223 Knee of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 13966221 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 13966215 bw in dc said:


Quote:


was going to be the plan after co-GMs Accorsi and Gettleman said they thought Manning still had plenty left in the fuel tank. No surprises to me.

If you believe in that plan, then Jints Central have executed it to a tee.

So I agree - Manning has a fridge full of food. And there really shouldn't be any excuses.




BW: We are lockstep in this; we have been since before the draft. Frankly, I don't believe Gettleman or Shurmur believe Eli has four or five years left. They may believe he has two years left, but I refuse to believe that any individual qualified to coach or GM a team can actually look at the film and say that Manning has years left. I mean, any layman can tell that his play has been garbage the last two years, and that is not all due to people not named Manning.

I think Mara wants to send Eli off with a better goodbye. I think DSG was deathly afraid to make his first pick the QB who replaced Eli, especially after he saw the vitriol spilled after Manning's streak ended. And if DSG really believed that Eli was the elite player he was years ago, he wouldn't have picked Lauletta in round 4.

This is all about one simple thing: Eli is now out of excuses. He's gotten a new LT in Solder, a new LG, and a new RG. So he has 3/5 of a new offensive line. He has Beckham back. He has the best RB prospect - possibly ever - to come out. He has Engram entering his second season. He has a QB whisperer as coach - the same guy who took Case Keenum and coaxed a 22 TD, 7 INT season out of the guy.

So, one of two things will happen: 1) Eli will continue his regression, be out of excuses, and DSG can move on to a young QB (not a retread like Smith) with no repercussions; or 2) Eli will rebound significantly, and if he rebounds enough, we could make a run, and DSG gets to go, I told you so. But if Eli is regressing, and we passed on a QB at the top of this draft (and one hits), he really screwed us unless we hit the lottery with Lauletta or Webb, which remains exceedingly unlikely based on sheer odds.



In 2016 Eli threw for 4000+ yards, 63% completion, 26 TDs, 16 INTs, 86.0 rating. I don't call that "garbage". It's not pro bowl worthy, but it's decent. He also performed pretty decently in the playoff game in Green Bay, but his receivers all played like shit.

2014 and 2015: he threw for combined almost 9000 yards, 65 TDs, 28 INTs, 93.0 rating.

Last year he had literally no o-line and no receivers and no running game. I doubt in a span of just two years he's become a completely different player than he was in 2014 and 2015. With Eli it is a lot about confidence: he needs to know he has time to throw and he needs a running game. When he has those things he has what it takes to win. Jerry Reese knew nothing about building an o-line, his two super bowls were mostly won with o-linemen he himself had nothing to do with. Now we have a GM who knows what he's doing when it comes to o-line. I refuse to give up on Eli based on one season of shitty stats where he had literally zero help around him.


Knee of Theisman ,

I like your stats , nice research , a man after my own heart.
Sometimes I feel like BBI forgets that we're supposed to root for the  
Sonic Youth : 5/17/2018 9:54 am : link
laundry, not the name on the back of the jersey.

Eli needs to put up or shut up this year. I love Eli, he is the most important athlete to me since I grew up watchimg him and he delivered two improbably championships for my favorite team (a team that's more about family than football), but for the sake of the laundry, he needs to produce.
Doesn't rooting for the laundry....  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 9:55 am : link
mean we should be rooting for the players that wear the laundry to be successful?
Or is tearing down the people that wear the laundry at every  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 9:55 am : link
opportunity equal rooting for the laundry?
RE: Britt/dep  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 9:56 am : link
In comment 13966329 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I can't find myself agreeing with those who say Eli is garbage. At the same time, I can't find myself agreeing with those who say Eli wasn't a significant factor in the offensive problems. I find myself in the middle on this one.

There aren't many good OLs in the NFL anymore. That said, the Giants' OL was clearly one of the worst in the league.

It's difficult to envision that this OL will be awful in 2018. It should be at least middle of the road now with potential issues at center and right tackle.

But how many teams have a Beckham-Shepard-Engram-Barkley arsenal?

Eli has become a losing QB. He's got to turn that around.


Eric , nice post , I fully agree
RE: RE: Sxdxca - I like the idea that Mara did all those things for Eli  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 10:01 am : link
In comment 13966365 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13966293 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


as opposed to the NY Giants. So if Eli doesnt come thru and win the big one, do all those players turn into pumpkins or something in your view?

Oh, and I particularly love the quote "He also has a decent backup RB in Gallman, to spell Barkley from time to time." How generous of Mara to provide Eli more than just one running back...



Dear Jimmy ,

Eli had Gallman last year as well , just saying Eli is now surrounded with a substantial amount of talent.

I mean more so than many QB's in the league. We need him to come through , and I want him too , that's all.


ok, fair enough.
Mara gave Eli a decent C, RG and RT?  
SHO'NUFF : 5/17/2018 10:03 am : link
when did this happen?
Easy does it Britt and Dep...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 10:05 am : link
once again, you are getting too close with some of those comments to crossing the line of what Eli needs/doesn't need to be a successful QB.

I am sure you don't see it the same way but this is what causes folks to roll-eyes when you post too. I know you all take on a lot of crap as well but just sayin...
Let me clarify what I was originally saying....  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 10:06 am : link
Since it seems there may be some confusion.

In my opinion Manning has plenty of arm strength left.

He also has the ability to still play QB at a championship level.

He has been surrounded with a tremendous amount of talent , more so than most QB's in the league get.

I mean take a look at all the 1st and 2nd rd picks that have been spent on his skill position players.

Much of his O line has been rebuilt , there isn't much more that ownership can do for him.

He's got a great coach , a good GM who has confidence in him.

We need Manning to come through , he is the engine of this team.

I'm not saying he needs to play at an MVP level.

But he needs to be like a point guard in basketball , where he accurately distributes the ball to his open receiver and lets them do there job.

I believe he can do this.

However if he faulters , there isn't much at that point anyone can do for him.

That's all

Itís time to come through for his owner?  
ZGiants98 : 5/17/2018 10:07 am : link
2 rings wasnít enough?
RE: I still  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 10:14 am : link
In comment 13966276 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
have a hard time reconciling how the owner is both a bumbling idiot and yet a deft puppet master at the same time.

How he's hoodwinked everyone and put players career's in jeopardy just to give old Eli a good sendoff.

A more logical explanation is that the posters who come up with these theories are fucking morons. And pretty much beat the same drum over and over again.

Guess what - look at sxdxca's posting history. The guy is a fucking trainwreck who has posted a variation of this shit countless times.


Hi Fat Man in Charlotte , or should we say the Chubby kid from the South.

It's good to see your brilliant IQ is still in action.

As all you've ever done on this message board is bullied , berated , and vociferously attacked me and a whole host of other posters.

Thanks for letting us know that you haven't lost any of your wisdom , and insight...

It's much appreciated , keep up those encouraging posts to your fellow Giant fans...


I'm pretty encouraging..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 10:15 am : link
to Giants fans.

I'm insufferable to idiots.
It makes sense to attack this post  
Mike from Ohio : 5/17/2018 10:27 am : link
it's dumb. If instead of trying to give Eli Manning everything his heart desires, what if Mara just wanted to make the team better? Which of the moves you laid out would have been different?

Isn't an owner supposed to make moves to make the team better? And isn't it part of the game that some of those moves will work, and some will not? Is it logical to believe all of those moves solved every problem on the team, leaving Eli as the only variable?

I hate to break the news to you, but this is an overly jaded and simplistic post.

Oh yeah...JINTS CENTRAL!!!
RE: Easy does it Britt and Dep...  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13966397 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
once again, you are getting too close with some of those comments to crossing the line of what Eli needs/doesn't need to be a successful QB.

I am sure you don't see it the same way but this is what causes folks to roll-eyes when you post too. I know you all take on a lot of crap as well but just sayin...


Why you throwing me into this? Our OL still remains a question mark. We got new players... yes. But that doesnít automatically mean success. I said we have weapons everywhere and I expect Eli to play better. But assuming the OL issues are solved before playing is jumping the gun IMO.
RE: Eli gave Mara two Super Bowl rings  
NYSports1 : 5/17/2018 10:33 am : link
In comment 13966258 JohnB said:
Quote:
Mara is paying him back.

I'm good with that.


So now Eli gave Mara that but when the Giants lose its on the team and not Eli?
Funny...a little over a year ago  
Chris684 : 5/17/2018 10:41 am : link
this team played in a playoff game and it wasn't Eli who failed to show up that day.

Seems many don't want to acknowledge that.
RE: RE: Easy does it Britt and Dep...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 10:41 am : link
In comment 13966438 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13966397 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


once again, you are getting too close with some of those comments to crossing the line of what Eli needs/doesn't need to be a successful QB.

I am sure you don't see it the same way but this is what causes folks to roll-eyes when you post too. I know you all take on a lot of crap as well but just sayin...



Why you throwing me into this? Our OL still remains a question mark. We got new players... yes. But that doesnít automatically mean success. I said we have weapons everywhere and I expect Eli to play better. But assuming the OL issues are solved before playing is jumping the gun IMO.


I know the new oline hasn't played a down...I'm briefed, thx. My post was responding to all your rhythm-talk and looking for something there to help the cause. Bottom line is there is not endless money/draft picks, and the Oline has 3 better starters on it...it should be better.
The Logic for Supporting DSG Is Faulty  
Giants34 : 5/17/2018 10:45 am : link
I love how people criticize me for critiquing DSG for his selection of Barkley on the simple basis that he is a GM and therefore knows what he is doing. The Jets GM traded up to three because he felt that there were three QBs in this draft that warranted the third selection, and he would be happy with any of them. He's a GM; is he wrong? For the first time ever, 4 QBs were selected in the top 10 of the draft, all by GMs. Are they wrong? Something has to give.

You can't simply tell me that DSG is a GM, therefore he is right. That is a ridiculous statement. GMs are not infallible. Jerry Reese was a GM. He got it wrong more often than he got it right. Now he's not a GM. I may not be a GM, but I have every right to say what I would have done, and time may prove me correct. I would have selected Josh Rosen. If Josh Rosen turns into a HOF QB, I would have been proven correct, even though I am not a GM.

Incidentally, there are a slew of GMs who believe that selecting a RB anywhere in the first round (let alone at #2) is a huge no no. They are GMs. Are they wrong? Something has to give, because a GM somewhere has to be wrong.

Furthermore, the notion that Reese did not address the OL is nonsense. He did not do it recently. But a few years ago, he picked Pugh in the 1st, Richburg in the 2nd, and Flowers in the top 10. He addressed it, he just did not get it right.

I would also like to clear one more thing up; I do not have any problem with the other picks DSG made. I loved the Hernandez pick. If we picked a QB at 2, the 4th round pick would obviously have changed, likely to a RB (unless we had picked one with one of our 3rd round picks). Nonetheless, I like what he did with the remainder of the draft. But I do not believe that he truly thinks Eli has many years left.

I am entitled to my opinion, even if it is only that of a layman.
Yes, Eli has regressed some  
RinR : 5/17/2018 10:52 am : link
but I dont think Tom Brady or Joe Montana would have won much more than 3 games with what we trotted out there for an oline and skill positions after game 5 last season.
RE: RE: RE: Easy does it Britt and Dep...  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 13966460 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:


I know the new oline hasn't played a down...I'm briefed, thx. My post was responding to all your rhythm-talk and looking for something there to help the cause. Bottom line is there is not endless money/draft picks, and the Oline has 3 better starters on it...it should be better.


The rhythm part is absolutely a crucial part of an offense. And the less you throw a pass in a game, the inconsistencies should be expected. Its no secret we didnt throw the ball downfield a lot last two years because teams took it away from us. So expecting to complete 40-50 yard passes downfield when they are thrown very few times is unreasonable.

Eli thrived under Gilbride throwing downfield because we did it a lot. I expect us to do it more this year cause we have better weapons and healthy weapons and I expect us to run the ball better which will help with the downfield throws.

So yes Eli has to complete them now.
Ok, I understood the first several times what rhythm is.  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 11:02 am : link
I hope he can do better this year too. Maybe he should throw a few long passes during warm-ups just in case...
RE: Ok, I understood the first several times what rhythm is.  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 13966489 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
I hope he can do better this year too. Maybe he should throw a few long passes during warm-ups just in case...


My guess is you really dont understand. But thats ok.
Can I ask..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 11:04 am : link
who DSG is?

Is that supposed to be Gettleman? If so, what the fuck is the "S".
RE: Can I ask..  
The_Boss : 5/17/2018 11:07 am : link
In comment 13966492 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
who DSG is?

Is that supposed to be Gettleman? If so, what the fuck is the "S".


Probably fat fingered it...the S key is next to the D.
Fat fingered..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 11:11 am : link
it several times over two posts?
I haven't read anything in this thread other than the OP,  
Section331 : 5/17/2018 11:15 am : link
but if Mara did all of that simply because McAdoo benched Eli, than this organization is beyond fucked.
Well then create a few more posts on rhythm  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 11:17 am : link
then, just to be certain we get it.
RE: Well then create a few more posts on rhythm  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13966509 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
then, just to be certain we get it.


I thought 1 would be enough. I did 1 more for you so you could understand. I dont want you lagging behind.
RE: Fat fingered..  
Giants34 : 5/17/2018 11:22 am : link
In comment 13966503 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
it several times over two posts?


I'm not exactly pleased with his decision to pass over a QB for a RB, so I'll let you use your imagination.
RE: The Logic for Supporting DSG Is Faulty  
baadbill : 5/17/2018 11:23 am : link
In comment 13966466 Giants34 said:
Quote:
I love how people criticize me for critiquing DSG for his selection of Barkley on the simple basis that he is a GM and therefore knows what he is doing. The Jets GM traded up to three because he felt that there were three QBs in this draft that warranted the third selection, and he would be happy with any of them. He's a GM; is he wrong? For the first time ever, 4 QBs were selected in the top 10 of the draft, all by GMs. Are they wrong? Something has to give.

You can't simply tell me that DSG is a GM, therefore he is right. That is a ridiculous statement. GMs are not infallible. Jerry Reese was a GM. He got it wrong more often than he got it right. Now he's not a GM. I may not be a GM, but I have every right to say what I would have done, and time may prove me correct. I would have selected Josh Rosen. If Josh Rosen turns into a HOF QB, I would have been proven correct, even though I am not a GM.

Incidentally, there are a slew of GMs who believe that selecting a RB anywhere in the first round (let alone at #2) is a huge no no. They are GMs. Are they wrong? Something has to give, because a GM somewhere has to be wrong.

Furthermore, the notion that Reese did not address the OL is nonsense. He did not do it recently. But a few years ago, he picked Pugh in the 1st, Richburg in the 2nd, and Flowers in the top 10. He addressed it, he just did not get it right.

I would also like to clear one more thing up; I do not have any problem with the other picks DSG made. I loved the Hernandez pick. If we picked a QB at 2, the 4th round pick would obviously have changed, likely to a RB (unless we had picked one with one of our 3rd round picks). Nonetheless, I like what he did with the remainder of the draft. But I do not believe that he truly thinks Eli has many years left.

I am entitled to my opinion, even if it is only that of a layman.


I'll take a free swing at this. It's not that GM's don't make mistakes. It's simply that your evaluation (and mine and that of everyone else on BBI) isn't worth spit in comparison. There are 32 NFL GMs. You (and me and everyone else on BBI) are ranked 500 millionith in line to get one of those jobs.
But....  
Giants34 : 5/17/2018 11:23 am : link
It was not a mistake. It was intentional.
Good, keep them coming  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 11:23 am : link
we all benefit.
Mara gave Eli *nothing*  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 11:29 am : link
He did what was best for the team with only the best interest of the team in mind.

People have too much Eli on the brain. It's an obsession that's moved in to psychoses.
For the record..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 11:31 am : link
his name is David Alan Gettleman.

Don't really need to use my imagination because some fuckstick disagrees on a pick and decides to use a made-up moniker.

Reeks of the Jints Central bullshit that bw continues to use in every one of his posts about the team.
Say it with music.  
Klaatu : 5/17/2018 11:31 am : link
I've Done Everything For You.
RE: For the record..  
Giants34 : 5/17/2018 11:38 am : link
In comment 13966526 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
his name is David Alan Gettleman.

Don't really need to use my imagination because some fuckstick disagrees on a pick and decides to use a made-up moniker.

Reeks of the Jints Central bullshit that bw continues to use in every one of his posts about the team.


This is what I don't get. Why am I "some fuckstick" because I disagree with the pick? I am arguably childish in using the "S" for DSG. But my points remain sound for disagreeing with his selection. And time will prove whether he is right or I am. And even you don't have a crystal ball to prove that the Barkley pick is correct, so how can you say that I am or will be proven wrong?

I understand your side and understand your support for Barkley. I will support him and the rest of the Giants when they take the field in August for preseason and September for the real games, like I do every year.
Agree  
PaulN : 5/17/2018 11:41 am : link
That Eli has enough here on offense coupled with a good head coach to bounce back and have a good season, if he doesn't, it is all on him. I am not saying he needs to win it all, but if the Giants finish below .500, I think it is a major disappointment. I look at Eli as having a very similar opportunity as when YA Tittle came here, he has about a three year window, assuming the Giants resign Beckham and don't suffer a ridiculous slew of injuries. I am hoping he can add another ring, but if we had a 9-7/11-5/11-5 type run over the next three years, make some noise in the playoffs, none of us should complain.
A rational person..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 11:41 am : link
doesn't make up derogatory names for people they supposedly support.

Gettleman makes a pick you disagree with, so you make up a name for him?

Fuckstick seems appropriate. Especially applying your logic.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 11:42 am : link
What the fuck is "DSG" ?
If  
PaulN : 5/17/2018 11:48 am : link
The Giants don't make some noise over the next three seasons or so, and if even one of the QB's that were still on the board when the Giants picked turn out to be an outstanding QB, then Gettleman did blow it and the Giants deserve all the criticism in the world, and I would not feel one bit sorry for them, although I will also kill John Mara for being totally clueless and that he panicked when the booing started after benching Eli. There is nothing wrong saying this, our statements will be the least of their worries if this all comes true. If they manage to win another Super Bowl within the next few seasons with Eli, then they can at least say they would still do the same thing, but this is a very important time for John Mara as well as for Gettleman.
Nope  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/17/2018 12:00 pm : link
Never traded a bunch of picks to move up the board to draft a stud prototype X receiver for their 1st overall pick QB like Atlanta, which a pocket passed needs.
Some will never hold Eli  
joeinpa : 5/17/2018 12:06 pm : link
Accountable for a poor performance.

RE: .  
Giantology : 5/17/2018 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13966545 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
What the fuck is "DSG" ?


It's how they refer to Dave Gettleman at "Jints Central"
RE: RE: .  
dorgan : 5/17/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13966579 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 13966545 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


What the fuck is "DSG" ?



It's how they refer to Dave Gettleman at "Jints Central"



LOL! Well played.
RE: Some will never hold Eli  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13966575 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Accountable for a poor performance.


This is just an odd take. People just take things to extreme. Defending a play or a pass doesnt mean you are exonerating him for a games worth of plays.
Coach red  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 12:13 pm : link
That's not the truth.

In 2014 with the 14th pick in the draft they selected WR Beckham because Eli needed a weapon, because Nicks was done.

In 2017 with the 23rd pick in the 1st rd they selected engram at TE cuz Eli needed someone to stretch the seem at reciever.

So yes he has been given much
RE: Coach red  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13966590 sxdxca said:
Quote:
That's not the truth.

In 2014 with the 14th pick in the draft they selected WR Beckham because Eli needed a weapon, because Nicks was done.

In 2017 with the 23rd pick in the 1st rd they selected engram at TE cuz Eli needed someone to stretch the seem at reciever.

So yes he has been given much


So your saying that a GM took guys in the draft where they had holes, sometimes glaring ones?

Well strike me down and call me Brett.... wait, no - dont ever call me that.
RE: RE: For the record..  
bw in dc : 5/17/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13966538 Giants34 said:
Quote:


This is what I don't get. Why am I "some fuckstick" because I disagree with the pick? I am arguably childish in using the "S" for DSG. But my points remain sound for disagreeing with his selection. And time will prove whether he is right or I am. And even you don't have a crystal ball to prove that the Barkley pick is correct, so how can you say that I am or will be proven wrong?


Look, you have to understand that there some here at BBI who treat Jints Central as the Holy Trinity chapel at the top of Mount Sinai. Anything critical of this holy ground is met with massive resistance. And you must be punished with harsh, creative terms such as "fuckstick". ;)



RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13966579 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 13966545 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


What the fuck is "DSG" ?



It's how they refer to Dave Gettleman at "Jints Central"


Ah... good ol Jints Central...
Barkley is actually a very risky pick for DG  
Vanzetti : 5/17/2018 12:46 pm : link
If any of the QBs taken after him become a star, Gettleman will be denounced by Giants fans (especially on BBI). For example, Giants may have had no interest in Josh Allen, but if he becomes a good QB, DG will become an "idiot" even by many who now support the Barkley pick.

So, I don't think DG was being "safe" by picking Barkley. Or he was afraid to pick a QB. He could turn out to be wrong. But if that is the case, it was a simple error in judgment, not some fear or risk aversion.
RE: It's about resetting that internal clock.  
Racer : 5/17/2018 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13966343 mittenedman said:
Quote:
My only worry with Eli is he has David Carr syndrome.

Shurmur is truly one of the masterful playcallers in the league. Old school. He'll keep the heat off Eli by tying the defense in knots with run/play action. The defense will be looking for Barkley off the bus.

Now - I expect Eli to be fine after a full offseason because he's got ice in his veins and Shurmur is the QB Whisperer. But Flowers, Hart, Reese & McAdoo could've caused permanent damage.


+1
RE: RE: RE: For the record..  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13966598 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13966538 Giants34 said:


Quote:




This is what I don't get. Why am I "some fuckstick" because I disagree with the pick? I am arguably childish in using the "S" for DSG. But my points remain sound for disagreeing with his selection. And time will prove whether he is right or I am. And even you don't have a crystal ball to prove that the Barkley pick is correct, so how can you say that I am or will be proven wrong?




Look, you have to understand that there some here at BBI who treat Jints Central as the Holy Trinity chapel at the top of Mount Sinai. Anything critical of this holy ground is met with massive resistance. And you must be punished with harsh, creative terms such as "fuckstick". ;)


For some, if not most, people here, "critical' is just schtick.
RE: Coach red  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13966590 sxdxca said:
Quote:
That's not the truth.

In 2014 with the 14th pick in the draft they selected WR Beckham because Eli needed a weapon, because Nicks was done.

In 2017 with the 23rd pick in the 1st rd they selected engram at TE cuz Eli needed someone to stretch the seem at reciever.

So yes he has been given much
That so much bullshit.

They selected a WR or a TE, because they needed a WR or a TE. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Sometimes I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 1:32 pm : link
the people most critical of eli here are the ones fabricating wild stories about him.

- That ownership appeases Eli and Archie because of the draft day move
- That ownership owes him for the SB's and keeps him around when he's supposedly dead weight
- That they fire the HC and GM to repair his hurt feelings from being benched
- That they draft WR's, TE's and RB's high to appease Eli instead of replacing him with a sure future HoF QB
- That Eli really orchestrates moves behind the scenes and they carry them through

But the logic falls short. It doesn't explain:
- Using a bounty to re-sign JPP and sign Snacks, Jenkins and Vernon
- Firing Eli supposedly favorite coach TC
- Firing Gilbride whose system Eli loved
- Going Eli's first several years without upgrading the OL
- Keeping Eli at QB even though his high throws were crippling every decent WR who played for the team
- Hiring McAdoo who ran a system that Eli isn't a good fit for
- Picking CB, S or DT high in several drafts

It isn't logical, but wrap it around the inference that Mara runs everything and a cute nickname like "Jints Central" and viola, conspiracy theorists unite. Mike even hook Pete Carroll to believe it.
don't worry sxdxca  
Les in TO : 5/17/2018 1:35 pm : link
the Eli Fanboy club will find new excuses to pin poor performance on everyone but the Eliphant in the room. you can already see some of them in this thread.
Eli's high throws didn't cripple every decent WR  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 1:36 pm : link
just a couple...
RE: don't worry sxdxca  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13966664 Les in TO said:
Quote:
the Eli Fanboy club will find new excuses to pin poor performance on everyone but the Eliphant in the room. you can already see some of them in this thread.


Once you think canada cant get any worse...

Les shows up to post.
RE: Eli's high throws didn't cripple every decent WR  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13966666 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
just a couple...


I really thought you were a better poster than this, but your schtick is now pretty old. Yeah, you will the same thing about me - but you are flat out making up stuff to promote an agenda.

Same thing in EVERY thread you post in.
Lighten up francis...i mean Dep  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 1:40 pm : link
what agenda is that btw?
I've gotten..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 1:44 pm : link
to like Googs. Even he knows deep down when he takes an EliteMobster point and re-uses it that it has to be in good fun!

He's far more fun to point/counter-point with than most.
I honestly, no lie, believe  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 1:46 pm : link
that people here feel that all we need is a non-Eli, and not a single, fucking, other player on the team and we would win every game.


It's fucking absurd....we don't need a WR; we only have them because Eli needed one

we don't need a TE; we only have them because Eli needed one

People actually and literally say this.

No other team in the league has or needs WR's, RB', and TE's.

It's just a fucking asinine statement.

a non-Eli QB  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 1:47 pm : link
.
i got it...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/17/2018 1:47 pm : link
...the S is for Shurmer!?
Bill  
dorgan : 5/17/2018 1:48 pm : link
when you have asinine people writing their thoughts the chances are the thoughts are going to be asinine.
Whenever I read..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 1:53 pm : link
a Les in TO post, I have a Costanza moment.

"I'm in the Eli FanBoy Club? Is that wrong? Am I supposed to hate the guy?"

Actually, I have one other moment, but that's just a violent shaking of the head wondering who exists on a message board to type a variation of the same shit each and every post. But then again - that seems to apply to most of the guys who go hard after eli.
The "Eliphant in the room"  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 1:55 pm : link
You may be kind of a clown, but that is fkn' classic...
Eliphant?  
YAJ2112 : 5/17/2018 1:56 pm : link
or Olyphant?
annoying and lazy post OP  
djm : 5/17/2018 2:00 pm : link
..
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 2:02 pm : link
When Les really isn't more....
RE: Regardless  
djm : 5/17/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13966315 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
of how one feels about Eli Manning, the pressure is indeed on him to rebound and win games. In recent years, there have been viable "excuses" why he has struggled. Those excuses are disappearing now.


He's only struggled in one season out of the last four. He was fine in 2014-2015. Good enough in 2016.

Everyone seems to rewrite history when we talk about Eli lately.
RE: I've gotten..  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13966673 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to like Googs. Even he knows deep down when he takes an EliteMobster point and re-uses it that it has to be in good fun!

He's far more fun to point/counter-point with than most.


I think you're swell too...
By "Comparing Tape"  
SchindlersFist : 5/17/2018 2:05 pm : link
You mean "watched youtube," right?
RE: Mara gave Eli *nothing*  
djm : 5/17/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13966523 Bill L said:
Quote:
He did what was best for the team with only the best interest of the team in mind.

People have too much Eli on the brain. It's an obsession that's moved in to psychoses.


It's amazing how fans have lost their frickin mind with this draft thing. Some of you are nuts with this. Why is everything about Eli? It's not!

Guys, it's fucking simple. They didn't love the QBs to take one at 2! They LOVE Barkley. They likely aren't disgusted or down on Webb. They obviously like the QB they drafted this year but likely aren't delusional and they obviously still think Eli can play this year and probably next. Then they will worry about 2020 leading up to it if needed.

WTF...trying to reinvent the wheel with some of these long takes on this crap. Look at Barkley....just look at him! He's an insane prospect. That's what these scouts and GMs are paid to do! Find greatness and take him.

C'mon...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 2:12 pm : link
I didn't turn gullible overnight!

Quote:
I think you're swell too..
RE: don't worry sxdxca  
djm : 5/17/2018 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13966664 Les in TO said:
Quote:
the Eli Fanboy club will find new excuses to pin poor performance on everyone but the Eliphant in the room. you can already see some of them in this thread.


You're insufferable on this topic. No one had to make excuses for Eli from 2014 through most if not all of 2016. the only reason we did was because of the people that bashed his play. Eli was fine problem is some of you fucks can't see it. Then his play did slip in 2017, although he still resembled a pro presence to anyone that can see, but oK fine, he struggled, and that one season, the Eli defenders felt compelled to believe that with a functional, not perfect, but PROFESSIONAL led offense, Eli can deliver...and WHY?

Because he's done it for the better part of 15 fucking years. That's why. Excuses my ass. You're the one LOOKING for a reason to believe Eli is going to struggle.

When the offense is functional, ELi has NEVER, EVER struggled here. NEVER. Don't like hearing that or don't believe that? Go ahead and try and disprove it. Please.
RE: RE: Coach red  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 2:14 pm : link
In comment 13966654 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13966590 sxdxca said:


Quote:


That's not the truth.

In 2014 with the 14th pick in the draft they selected WR Beckham because Eli needed a weapon, because Nicks was done.

In 2017 with the 23rd pick in the 1st rd they selected engram at TE cuz Eli needed someone to stretch the seem at reciever.

So yes he has been given much

That so much bullshit.

They selected a WR or a TE, because they needed a WR or a TE. Nothing more. Nothing less.


Bill L

I feel sorry for you , I really do.

I mean if you had used some intelligence that I was responding to a poster who was saying that Atlanta used there draft picks to acquire a wr , where the giants had not.

You would clearly see that his logic was faulty.

If you can't figure that out then I cant help you, and if u can't see that the giants drafted Beckham to give eli a weapon on offense, then I can't help you either
there  
Les in TO : 5/17/2018 2:14 pm : link
is a difference between being a fan of Eli and a an "Eli fanboy". you can like, support, cheer for Eli and take the view that he's great and the Giants recent troubles are not his fault, without being a fanboy.

the fanboys will go on game threads and point out every mistake that other Giants make ("another drop by shepard!") while either minimizing or ignoring mistakes Eli makes (crickets after Eli throws a pick six). you will never get a nuanced viewpoint of his performance. some of them are also abusive and berate anyone who has a critical or nuanced view of his performance.
2013 the offense was a disaster  
djm : 5/17/2018 2:17 pm : link
Eli played like crap.

2016 the offense was led by Mickey Mouse and had one viable receiving option along with a rookie in Shep who was ok. Eli threw for over 4000 yards and 26 TDs AND helped the team win 11 games. That is not a bad season even if there were warning signs and struggles. Eli wasn't the problem.

We talked about 2017. Fine.

EVery other year Eli has held up his end of the bargain! Why shouldn't I believe he's got another 4300 yard, 27-30 TD season where he pulls out a few games second half and leads the team to a winning record? Why not? Because of LAST YEAR'S results?

Some of you suck not to be able to at least see WHY some of us have some faith in Eli here for the next 1-2-3 seasons. You don't have to agree with it but you suck when you act like Gettleman and Mara are akin to keystone cops by making this move for Barkley and sticking with Eli here. This was never an easy slam dunk decision no matter wtf you might think.
there are only 2-3 QBs playing  
djm : 5/17/2018 2:20 pm : link
that might be able to lift the franchise up despite everything sinking around them. Rodgers would have helped probably. Luck when healthy...probably him too. Maybe Brady? Who knows how he'd look if drafted by someone else.

Drew Brees? How many games did he win from 2012-2016? Not many.

Some QBs are good or even very good or even great and they still need help. Eli is one of those. Not an indictment.
RE: I honestly, no lie, believe  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13966674 Bill L said:
Quote:
that people here feel that all we need is a non-Eli, and not a single, fucking, other player on the team and we would win every game.


It's fucking absurd....we don't need a WR; we only have them because Eli needed one

we don't need a TE; we only have them because Eli needed one

People actually and literally say this.

No other team in the league has or needs WR's, RB', and TE's.

It's just a fucking asinine statement.


Once again bill l your logic is faulty.

Your attempting to say that the only reason the giants drafted a te is because they needed one.

But that isn't the truth.

In 2016 the giants offense was struggling, so they said the reason why was because eli didnt have a te who could go up the seam.

So if we draft engram in the 1st rd our offense will be explosive.

They drafted him , and sadly the giants offense , I kid u not averaged 15 points a game in 2017.

You realize our best player  
UConn4523 : 5/17/2018 2:29 pm : link
got hurt last year, right? Evan Engram was basically the only good player we had at all on offense in 2017. He wasnít the reason why we stunk.
RE: don't worry sxdxca  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13966664 Les in TO said:
Quote:
the Eli Fanboy club will find new excuses to pin poor performance on everyone but the Eliphant in the room. you can already see some of them in this thread.


Thanks len , honestly I'm not even upset... I like eli
djm  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2018 2:33 pm : link
Despite the playoff appearance, Eli's play noticeably (and statistically) declined in 2016. It fell off again in 2017. He's on a 2-year downward trend. Are there excuses? Sure. But he's also part of the equation.
RE: djm  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13966740 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Despite the playoff appearance, Eli's play noticeably (and statistically) declined in 2016. It fell off again in 2017. He's on a 2-year downward trend. Are there excuses? Sure. But he's also part of the equation.


One viable option in 2016. Victor Cruz and the piano on his back was his number 2. Larry Donnell and Will Tye were his TEs, and Rashad Jennings and Paul Perkins were his RBs. Shepard was ok, but he was delegated as a slot WR.

Paul Perkins was the player who contributed the most in 2017 out of ALL of them. Sometimes we have to temper expectations when you realize what someone has to work with.
RE: there  
dep026 : 5/17/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13966716 Les in TO said:
Quote:
is a difference between being a fan of Eli and a an "Eli fanboy". you can like, support, cheer for Eli and take the view that he's great and the Giants recent troubles are not his fault, without being a fanboy.

the fanboys will go on game threads and point out every mistake that other Giants make ("another drop by shepard!") while either minimizing or ignoring mistakes Eli makes (crickets after Eli throws a pick six). you will never get a nuanced viewpoint of his performance. some of them are also abusive and berate anyone who has a critical or nuanced view of his performance.


And there is someone like you who bashes everything he does and never has given him credit for a single thing in his career.

You said Vince Young was a better QB than him. But yeah, you are rational.
RE: djm  
Route 9 : 5/17/2018 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13966740 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Despite the playoff appearance, Eli's play noticeably (and statistically) declined in 2016. It fell off again in 2017. He's on a 2-year downward trend. Are there excuses? Sure. But he's also part of the equation.


Had he had a better game against Philly in 2016 on the road on TNF his stats would've been similar to 2014. 30 TDs and 14 INTs.

I think that game was a shame and set the tone for the rest of the year. It showed they weren't battle tested and Eli played very poorly. They couldn't handle a bad-mediocre whatever Philly team on the road to clinch a playoff birth?

That's the game of 2016 that will always stick out to me.

2017 was a wash lol  
Route 9 : 5/17/2018 2:55 pm : link
I'm glad they went 3-13, no reason to keep McAdoo and we got Barkley now
RE: C'mon...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13966709 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I didn't turn gullible overnight!



Quote:


I think you're swell too..



I do enjoy your posts when you post football stuff. The berating stuff, particularly against some of the knuckleheads is boorish. But you know that...
RE: RE: I honestly, no lie, believe  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13966728 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13966674 Bill L said:


Quote:


that people here feel that all we need is a non-Eli, and not a single, fucking, other player on the team and we would win every game.


It's fucking absurd....we don't need a WR; we only have them because Eli needed one

we don't need a TE; we only have them because Eli needed one

People actually and literally say this.

No other team in the league has or needs WR's, RB', and TE's.

It's just a fucking asinine statement.




Once again bill l your logic is faulty.

Your attempting to say that the only reason the giants drafted a te is because they needed one.

But that isn't the truth.

In 2016 the giants offense was struggling, so they said the reason why was because eli didnt have a te who could go up the seam.

So if we draft engram in the 1st rd our offense will be explosive.

They drafted him , and sadly the giants offense , I kid u not averaged 15 points a game in 2017.
The way team building works is that any time you have a shitty player or no player at all, you bring one in to improve that spot. You're not doing it for some other player. That's just how it works.

They drafted OBJ because they literally had no quality WR. They drafted Engram because they literally had dross at TE. The drafted Hernandez because the OL: sucked. None of that was for Eli, just like drafting LT was to improve their defense and not just to give a friend to whoever was the DT next to him at the time. It doesn't matter Eli; God (not touched by God, but actually God) could be our QB and they were still going to draft OBJ at that spot. Because it makes team sense.
RE: RE: RE: For the record..  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13966598 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13966538 Giants34 said:


Quote:




This is what I don't get. Why am I "some fuckstick" because I disagree with the pick? I am arguably childish in using the "S" for DSG. But my points remain sound for disagreeing with his selection. And time will prove whether he is right or I am. And even you don't have a crystal ball to prove that the Barkley pick is correct, so how can you say that I am or will be proven wrong?




Look, you have to understand that there some here at BBI who treat Jints Central as the Holy Trinity chapel at the top of Mount Sinai. Anything critical of this holy ground is met with massive resistance. And you must be punished with harsh, creative terms such as "fuckstick". ;)




And now youve proven to use that term only to provoke. What a fucking child.
RE: RE: I honestly, no lie, believe  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 3:11 pm : link
In comment 13966728 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13966674 Bill L said:


Quote:


that people here feel that all we need is a non-Eli, and not a single, fucking, other player on the team and we would win every game.


It's fucking absurd....we don't need a WR; we only have them because Eli needed one

we don't need a TE; we only have them because Eli needed one

People actually and literally say this.

No other team in the league has or needs WR's, RB', and TE's.

It's just a fucking asinine statement.




Once again bill l your logic is faulty.

Your attempting to say that the only reason the giants drafted a te is because they needed one.

But that isn't the truth.

In 2016 the giants offense was struggling, so they said the reason why was because eli didnt have a te who could go up the seam.

So if we draft engram in the 1st rd our offense will be explosive.

They drafted him , and sadly the giants offense , I kid u not averaged 15 points a game in 2017.


The irony of a poster accusing another of not using "logic" or "intelligence" after misusing "there" and "your" is precious...like watching a kid pick his nose and eat it.
it's hilarious  
Les in TO : 5/17/2018 3:14 pm : link
and entertaining to watch people get so irate over the use of terms like Jints Central or Eli Fanboy club. Eric would make a lot of money serving up anger management ads.
RE: RE: RE: RE: For the record..  
bw in dc : 5/17/2018 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13966787 chopperhatch said:
Quote:

And now youve proven to use that term only to provoke. What a fucking child.


You desperately need to get a sense of humor. To find the term Jints Central somehow provoking is very strange.

RE: Sometimes I think..  
bw in dc : 5/17/2018 3:37 pm : link
In comment 13966661 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the people most critical of eli here are the ones fabricating wild stories about him.

- That ownership appeases Eli and Archie because of the draft day move
- That ownership owes him for the SB's and keeps him around when he's supposedly dead weight
- That they fire the HC and GM to repair his hurt feelings from being benched
- That they draft WR's, TE's and RB's high to appease Eli instead of replacing him with a sure future HoF QB
- That Eli really orchestrates moves behind the scenes and they carry them through

It isn't logical, but wrap it around the inference that Mara runs everything and a cute nickname like "Jints Central" and viola, conspiracy theorists unite. Mike even hook Pete Carroll to believe it.


For some inexplicable reason, and maybe because you are just genuinely dishonest, every thing you've written above about Eli does not pertain to me, or anything I've written about Eli, with the exception - partially - that Mara is keeping Eli around for services rendered.

To think that it is far fetched to believe that Mara wants to do everything he can to send Eli off in style - for all of his contributions - is beyond naive.

As I've stated, I find that to be a perfectly reasonable human response by Mara. On the other hand, I also find it to be a move that could set the team back in the medium and long term. And that's been an on-going debate since Eli ended the season with another poor performance. Is there still something left or has he hit the point of diminishing returns?

Well, Mara has turned over his cards and he is all in on the something being left. And he has surrounded himself with people who feel the same way - Gettleman and Shurmur. It is a tremendous gamble on a 37 year old QB despite a draft stockpiled with good, talented prospects.

It's either going to be Mara's most courageous moves or one of the dumbest moves he's ever made. So the clock in ticking.
RE: RE: Coach red  
bw in dc : 5/17/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13966654 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13966590 sxdxca said:


Quote:


That's not the truth.

In 2014 with the 14th pick in the draft they selected WR Beckham because Eli needed a weapon, because Nicks was done.

In 2017 with the 23rd pick in the 1st rd they selected engram at TE cuz Eli needed someone to stretch the seem at reciever.

So yes he has been given much

That so much bullshit.

They selected a WR or a TE, because they needed a WR or a TE. Nothing more. Nothing less.


You're kidding on this, right? Why would it be a bad idea to have a thought process to select players to help your QB? You know, the most critical position, arguably, in all of sports...

I struggle to find that anything but bullsh-t...
Remember the morons who said Sanchez was the best QB in NY?  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/17/2018 3:52 pm : link
They never left. Just as annoying now.
So what you're syaing is that if the QB was other than Elli  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 3:53 pm : link
and there was no WR or TE or RB on the team, they would no bring one on board? Because that is what his post pretty much said.
LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 3:59 pm : link
even this is complete horseshit:

Quote:
It's either going to be Mara's most courageous moves or one of the dumbest moves he's ever made. So the clock in ticking.


You've even made up what Mara's moves are! Your assumption was he hired Gettleman and Shurmur with the mandate to keep Eli and give him one more chance to win.

In your haste to try and work in a nod to "Jints Central", you don't even account for the fact that moves made are for the NY Giants to win, regardless of who the QB is.

You've set-up the hiring of the GM and HC and the drafted of a RB to be moves made with a sole purpose - around Eli.

And that's exactly what I'm talking about when I say there are posters who are delusional and aspire conspiracy theories to what's going on.

For Christ's sake, you self-admittingly hold what Eli did in SD against him still. Even after you know it delivered 2 SB's, so it isn't exactly like you are rational.
It's so bad....  
Britt in VA : 5/17/2018 4:00 pm : link
.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 4:10 pm : link
Don't you need skill players no matter who the QB is?

Some of the arguments people come up with here are mind-boggling. Who fucking cares who the QB is? If you need WR/TE/RB help, you go out and address it. Whether you have Drew Stanton or Eli Manning under center.

Needs are needs. They'd be needs no matter who the QB was.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 4:25 pm : link
Probably shouldn't have drafted Will Hernandez, either - just more giving Eli everything!
RE: .  
Mad Mike : 5/17/2018 4:27 pm : link
In comment 13966864 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Probably shouldn't have drafted Will Hernandez, either - just more giving Eli everything!

It's gross how much they cater to that guy.
RE: .  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 4:27 pm : link
In comment 13966858 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Don't you need skill players no matter who the QB is?

Some of the arguments people come up with here are mind-boggling. Who fucking cares who the QB is? If you need WR/TE/RB help, you go out and address it. Whether you have Drew Stanton or Eli Manning under center.

Needs are needs. They'd be needs no matter who the QB was.
I suppose it's possible that they are making an economic argument. I mean, if you only had a QB who wasn't Eli, even if it's Brady or even Cousins and you were paying that exorbitant salary, you'd save a boatload of money by not having to employ (and pay) those 51 other people.
RE: LOL...  
bw in dc : 5/17/2018 4:27 pm : link
In comment 13966845 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


You've even made up what Mara's moves are! Your assumption was he hired Gettleman and Shurmur with the mandate to keep Eli and give him one more chance to win.


Not sure it was a direct mandate as much as it was what Mara certainly wanted - build a team around Eli. It's very laughable to deny that.

Do you think this sequence of events is just pro-Eli coincidence?

Accorsi was brought in to "consult". The man who selected Eli and the man who has said all along he thought Eli had something left.

Accorsi then helps Mara on his fake search and recommends a candidate in, oh, ten minutes. And that guy is Gettleman, a former Accorsi right hand man, and former member of Jints Central (a major trait that Mara likes). And a guy who was there when Eli was selected. And a guy who quickly comes out after five minutes of "watching film" that he thinks Eli has something left.

And then Shurmur is selected as coach, who was a total bust in Cleveland, but just did reclamation work on Case Keenum. Hmmmm - a reclamation project guy. Perfect! That's what we need - someone to rehabilitate Eli.

The final piece of the "keep Eli" puzzle.

But I guess all of that is mere coincidence, right?

But bw, maybe all those guys believe they can get  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 4:41 pm : link
what they need out of Eli in the next 2 years?

It also could be some level of group-think albeit far less of the conspiracy you are suggesting...
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 4:41 pm : link
In comment 13966868 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13966858 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Don't you need skill players no matter who the QB is?

Some of the arguments people come up with here are mind-boggling. Who fucking cares who the QB is? If you need WR/TE/RB help, you go out and address it. Whether you have Drew Stanton or Eli Manning under center.

Needs are needs. They'd be needs no matter who the QB was.

I suppose it's possible that they are making an economic argument. I mean, if you only had a QB who wasn't Eli, even if it's Brady or even Cousins and you were paying that exorbitant salary, you'd save a boatload of money by not having to employ (and pay) those 51 other people.


I just don't understand the angle there at all. Shouldn't any team be looking for skill position talent no matter who they are or who is under center?

Are the Packers out there thinking "well, Aaron is good enough to carry the offense himself - we don't really need to be paying or drafting skill guys here..." ?

It would be pretty shitty team-building if they were.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For the record..  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13966801 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13966787 chopperhatch said:


Quote:



And now youve proven to use that term only to provoke. What a fucking child.



You desperately need to get a sense of humor. To find the term Jints Central somehow provoking is very strange.


Dude, I have a very good sense of humor. You literally say Jint Central to get a rise out of people. Not me really, I had just been noticing it recently and find it pathetic.

Carry on bw, but you know what youre doing and its sophmoric at best, irritating at the least.
I kinda think I need to change my handle  
exiled : 5/17/2018 5:09 pm : link
to EliFanboy
RE: it's hilarious  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 5:09 pm : link
In comment 13966794 Les in TO said:
Quote:
and entertaining to watch people get so irate over the use of terms like Jints Central or Eli Fanboy club. Eric would make a lot of money serving up anger management ads.


Then what you find as being funny is as stupid as your posts. God you suck.
RE: .  
sxdxca : 5/17/2018 5:17 pm : link
In comment 13966858 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Don't you need skill players no matter who the QB is?

Some of the arguments people come up with here are mind-boggling. Who fucking cares who the QB is? If you need WR/TE/RB help, you go out and address it. Whether you have Drew Stanton or Eli Manning under center.

Needs are needs. They'd be needs no matter who the QB was.


That's not the truth

In 2016 with Beckham the giants offense averaged 19 points per game.

Management said, the reason why we r struggling is because we don't have a te that can run up the seam.

So they drafted engram in 2017 with a preconcieved agenda , to give eli the skill position player he needed to for an explosive offense.

Beckham got hurt, but engram was inserted.

The offense went from 19 points per game in 2016, to averaging 15 points per game in 2017.

That means that your defense cannot allow more than 12-13 points per game for your team to win.

I'm telling the truth

RE: But bw, maybe all those guys believe they can get  
bw in dc : 5/17/2018 5:22 pm : link
In comment 13966881 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
what they need out of Eli in the next 2 years?

It also could be some level of group-think albeit far less of the conspiracy you are suggesting...


I don't think it's so much conspiratorial. It's more esoteric - Mara surrounded himself with a small group of football people who were going to be in lockstep with his thinking on Eli. Can you seriously deny that the pieces that fell into place - these new arrivals - could all have been predicted to be pro-Eli?

Again and this gets lost in the sauce, I get the idea. It's a strategy. I just think it's a strategy that came at the expense of an opportunity - long term - to add a QB from a QB rich draft (those prospects rated much higher than KLauletta).

FMiC creates this illusion that I'm suggesting Mara is operating a CIA black ops site at Jints Central... ;)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For the record..  
bw in dc : 5/17/2018 5:28 pm : link
In comment 13966894 chopperhatch said:
Quote:


Dude, I have a very good sense of humor. You literally say Jint Central to get a rise out of people. Not me really, I had just been noticing it recently and find it pathetic.

Carry on bw, but you know what youre doing and its sophmoric at best, irritating at the least.


Again, and I'm all ears, how the hell does a term like Jints Central - which I have explained is a term I read in the NYDN in the '80s and '90s - create a rise in people?

I have literally used that ever since I started posting here back in the mid-90s. It really is nothing new, just a term that I can use to cover all the bases of the the decision makers - Mara, GM, DPP, HC, etc. Instead of writing out Mara, Gettlemen et al, Jints Central covers all of that real estate.

You guys act like I'm using the N word... ;)
It could be simply a function..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 5:55 pm : link
of the fact that you rarely if ever talk about the organization glowingly why there is a negative perception of Jints Central.

You don't use it as a simple description - you use it to describe an organization that had to be "saved" by Rozelle and had silver spoon owners. It's never used to talk about the positives, like "the 4 Lombardi trophies housed at Jints Central", and you know exactly why and the context in how it is used. To suggest otherwise is just horseshit.

And the discussion is almost always about incompetence. That same incompetence that filled the trophy case.

I still don't even understand this:
Quote:
I don't think it's so much conspiratorial. It's more esoteric - Mara surrounded himself with a small group of football people who were going to be in lockstep with his thinking on Eli. Can you seriously deny that the pieces that fell into place - these new arrivals - could all have been predicted to be pro-Eli?


Shumur was going to be "pro-Eli"?? Under what evidence? The guy has seldomly worked with a QB with Eli's makeup. He generally has been with semi-mobile QB's who he has to coach to read defenses and hide issues with arm strength.

You are just trying to fit a narrative, just like you do the majority of the time you act like the franchise is the bumbling one from the 70's. That's been widely disproven and most wise people have moved on.

RE: RE: But bw, maybe all those guys believe they can get  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13966906 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13966881 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


what they need out of Eli in the next 2 years?

It also could be some level of group-think albeit far less of the conspiracy you are suggesting...



I don't think it's so much conspiratorial. It's more esoteric - Mara surrounded himself with a small group of football people who were going to be in lockstep with his thinking on Eli. Can you seriously deny that the pieces that fell into place - these new arrivals - could all have been predicted to be pro-Eli?

Again and this gets lost in the sauce, I get the idea. It's a strategy. I just think it's a strategy that came at the expense of an opportunity - long term - to add a QB from a QB rich draft (those prospects rated much higher than KLauletta).

FMiC creates this illusion that I'm suggesting Mara is operating a CIA black ops site at Jints Central... ;)


But I think you said it yourself...this regime has a strategy and some part of it revolves around having Eli be the QB this year. So they all got on board with it, whether each was advocating it or relunctantly going along with it because the alternative was less attractive.

And yes it came at the expense of an opportunity. But that doesn't mean its a loss...we still have a great asset in Barkley and there will indeed be other opportunities to get a QB if we need one. I stipulate it might be far more costly to pursue opportunity in future...but again that is their strategy.

At least as of now...that can change if Eli continues his decline and neither backup progresses into the role.
RE: RE: RE: But bw, maybe all those guys believe they can get  
bw in dc : 5/17/2018 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13966927 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:


And yes it came at the expense of an opportunity. But that doesn't mean its a loss...we still have a great asset in Barkley and there will indeed be other opportunities to get a QB if we need one. I stipulate it might be far more costly to pursue opportunity in future...but again that is their strategy.



No qualms with much of that.

I just weigh the expense of the lost opportunity part more than you. It's early, but that crop of QBs that will be eligible for drafting the next two years is ordinary at best. So that is why I think we messed up the draft equation this year by going RB 1st, QB later, versus QB first, then RB later.

RE: It could be simply a function..  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13966926 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
of the fact that you rarely if ever talk about the organization glowingly why there is a negative perception of Jints Central.

You don't use it as a simple description - you use it to describe an organization that had to be "saved" by Rozelle and had silver spoon owners. It's never used to talk about the positives, like "the 4 Lombardi trophies housed at Jints Central", and you know exactly why and the context in how it is used. To suggest otherwise is just horseshit.

And the discussion is almost always about incompetence. That same incompetence that filled the trophy case.

I still don't even understand this:


Quote:


I don't think it's so much conspiratorial. It's more esoteric - Mara surrounded himself with a small group of football people who were going to be in lockstep with his thinking on Eli. Can you seriously deny that the pieces that fell into place - these new arrivals - could all have been predicted to be pro-Eli?



Shumur was going to be "pro-Eli"?? Under what evidence? The guy has seldomly worked with a QB with Eli's makeup. He generally has been with semi-mobile QB's who he has to coach to read defenses and hide issues with arm strength.

You are just trying to fit a narrative, just like you do the majority of the time you act like the franchise is the bumbling one from the 70's. That's been widely disproven and most wise people have moved on.


Exactly this. It's in a mocking way that you refer to the team as that. And you never use any other word or words to refer to the organization which there are many.

Again, I'm not hung on it, but you sound like kind of a needling prick (even though I don't think you are that and a few posters I respect know and like you) when you do say it. I promise never to bring it up again.
Eric is right - Eli has been in decline for 2 years  
WillieYoung : 5/17/2018 6:54 pm : link
I'll be rooting for him to play like he did against Philly last year in the second game. But it is more hope than expectation.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 7:03 pm : link
In comment 13966903 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13966858 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Don't you need skill players no matter who the QB is?

Some of the arguments people come up with here are mind-boggling. Who fucking cares who the QB is? If you need WR/TE/RB help, you go out and address it. Whether you have Drew Stanton or Eli Manning under center.

Needs are needs. They'd be needs no matter who the QB was.



That's not the truth

In 2016 with Beckham the giants offense averaged 19 points per game.

Management said, the reason why we r struggling is because we don't have a te that can run up the seam.

So they drafted engram in 2017 with a preconcieved agenda , to give eli the skill position player he needed to for an explosive offense.

Beckham got hurt, but engram was inserted.

The offense went from 19 points per game in 2016, to averaging 15 points per game in 2017.

That means that your defense cannot allow more than 12-13 points per game for your team to win.

I'm telling the truth


I still have no fucking idea what point you're trying to make. What does any of that have to do with Eli?

Also, when did management say "the reason we are struggling is because we don't have a TE who can run up the seam" ?

That sounds made up.

Maybe we drafted a TE because we had one of the worst TE groups in the entire league before we selected Engram. No... can't be!

Really, it actually can be that simple. TE was a problem and it has nothing to do with who the QB is or isn't. We needed a better player there. Unless you thought Larry Donnell was getting the job done.

But sure - let's just keep on going with this ridiculous narrative that everything is just a way to cater to Eli...

Bizarre.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 7:05 pm : link
The offense averaged 15 PPG because all of our WR's got hurt in Week 5, we had a terrible offensive line, a crappy stable of RB's, and a head coach who had no idea what he was doing.

Eli didn't play well either. But who is playing well under those circumstances outside of Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson?

If you want to name a QB with a worse situation, go on ahead.
Just look at..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 7:14 pm : link
the way the narratives have shifted since November:

- Mara will never fire the Coach and GM in season. They will wait until the end. It is the Giants way. They were fired
- They will pick an in house yes man to carry out Mara's wishes. They hire Gettleman and posters go "A Ha! Told you" despite the fact Gettleman's past suggests he's not a yes mean. Even if that point is granted....
- They will pick a coach with ties to the team or Gettleman (or Belicheck). Then they don't.
- They are definitely picking a QB at #2. Then they don't

So now the narrative shifts to the incompetent Mara giving a directive and brainwashing everyone into thinking that we need to save face over Eli's benching, even insinuating Shurmur was hired for this reason and Barkley was drafted for this reason.

People wanted a housecleaning. They got a housecleaning. And they still bitch and moan.Sorry if I find bitching and moaning in the face of false narratives annoying, but they are fucking annoying.
Replacing a non-entity at TE with a quality TE  
Bill L : 5/17/2018 7:16 pm : link
Or a shitty WR with a great one are decisions that stand on their own. Itís doesnt matter if the QB is Eli or Brady or Red Grange.

Geez, I spend my day job dealig with shitty unfounded hypothesis getting in the way of knowledge. At least my life is consistent.

And, to show how diabolical Mara really is, they draft OBJ 4 Yearís ago and draft Engram coming off a playoff experience all in anticipation of not taking a QB in 2018. No wonder Mara is rich; heís a freaking psychic.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 7:31 pm : link
It just makes no sense to me. The offense has struggled the last two seasons. Yes, part of that was because of Eli - but not all of it was because of Eli.

If your offense is struggling, isn't the fucking point to upgrade it and improve it?

We didn't draft Evan Engram to save Eli's career. We drafted Evan Engram because the TE play in the pass game had been absolutely atrocious.

Can someone please name a situation a team could be in with a QB where they can simply ignore the skill positions?

Because as far as I know, when you have a young QB, you want to give him weapons to succeed with. When you have a vet QB, you also want to give him weapons to succeed with.

When do teams not look to upgrade skill positions because of their QB? Either you have good players at these positions, or you don't. If you don't, you need to draft or sign them. That's kind of how the league works.
arc..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 7:40 pm : link
and basically, 2016 shoots holes in most of the theories.

The $200M spend on the D which directly led to the playoff berth had nothing to do with Eli. It was about improving the team. It also followed Coughlin getting fired, which came on the heels of two historically bad defenses.
RE: djm  
SGMen : 5/17/2018 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13966740 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Despite the playoff appearance, Eli's play noticeably (and statistically) declined in 2016. It fell off again in 2017. He's on a 2-year downward trend. Are there excuses? Sure. But he's also part of the equation.
agreed. Mobility is an issue. Arm not so much.
RE: arc..  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13966991 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
and basically, 2016 shoots holes in most of the theories.

The $200M spend on the D which directly led to the playoff berth had nothing to do with Eli. It was about improving the team. It also followed Coughlin getting fired, which came on the heels of two historically bad defenses.


Blows my mind, man. Some of the stuff people come up with here. Absolutely ridiculous.
Fat man nailed it  
joeinpa : 5/17/2018 8:43 pm : link
There are a lot of false narratives being presented like fact. At the very least they are opinions being stated as fact
The narrative of getting a TE that can get downfield (in the seam)  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 9:18 pm : link
was not false though.

One widely heard view of the problem with the Giant offense in 2016 was that Cover 2 was shutting down OBJ's effectiveness. He still made plenty of plays but many of them were on shorter passes or when the defense was not in Cover 2. Two ways to combat that were effectively running the ball (which we couldn't do) and/or find a TE that can get down the field.

Engram was the type of TE in response to that.

And, of course, the Giants needed a good TE anyway...
just sayin'  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 9:19 pm : link
it wasn't made up...
.  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 9:30 pm : link
I understand why they drafted Engram and know that we were being stifled by C2 looks because we had no one who could bust the seam - I'm saying that I don't recall management coming out and blaming the struggles of the Giants on that. Or even commenting on it like that at all.

Fans recognized it, it was an obvious problem.

This is why we drafted Evan Engram:

2013: Brandon Myers, Larry Donnell, Bear Pascoe
2014: Larry Donnell, Daniel Fells, Adrien Robinson
2015: Larry Donnell, Will Tye, Daniel Fells
2016: Larry Donnell, Will Tye, Jerrell Adams

End of story.
RE: The narrative of getting a TE that can get downfield (in the seam)  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13967041 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
was not false though.

One widely heard view of the problem with the Giant offense in 2016 was that Cover 2 was shutting down OBJ's effectiveness. He still made plenty of plays but many of them were on shorter passes or when the defense was not in Cover 2. Two ways to combat that were effectively running the ball (which we couldn't do) and/or find a TE that can get down the field.

Engram was the type of TE in response to that.

And, of course, the Giants needed a good TE anyway...


He was also apparently the best player left on the board now we look back right? I mean, I know that Engram was my choice and certainly not yours Googs, but looking back, Engram is tremendous value there.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/17/2018 9:33 pm : link
the narratives have been very clear.

After 2015, it was to make changes from another sub.500 year with multiple losses late in the game, some seemingly coaching errors, most from horrific defending. Coughlin was fired. $200M was pumped into the defense

After 2016, it was to ride the wave of a great defensive season and shore up the TE position to make another run at the playoffs

After 2017, it was to clean house of a HC who lost the team, a GM who had several poor drafts and failed to improve the OL and LB positions, and to improve an offense which hadn't scored more than 20 points in what seems like a millennial.

None of those narratives are based on anything but intending to improve the team, either positionally or in leadership.

If you are looking for other narratives, you're basically making shit up or completely misreading what's happened. Hindsight is usually a good tool to make things clearer on what's happened in the past, so why is it routinely ignored here?
RE: .  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 9:37 pm : link
In comment 13967052 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I understand why they drafted Engram and know that we were being stifled by C2 looks because we had no one who could bust the seam - I'm saying that I don't recall management coming out and blaming the struggles of the Giants on that. Or even commenting on it like that at all.

Fans recognized it, it was an obvious problem.

This is why we drafted Evan Engram:

2013: Brandon Myers, Larry Donnell, Bear Pascoe
2014: Larry Donnell, Daniel Fells, Adrien Robinson
2015: Larry Donnell, Will Tye, Daniel Fells
2016: Larry Donnell, Will Tye, Jerrell Adams

End of story.


I kind of recall the Giants commenting on it with some of the coach pressers but not a lot (for obvious reasons). But i think we all agree it was a major problem.

I pined for a decent TE for years so we don't have to go down that path. But Engram certainly fit the bill on trying to solve for Cover 2, although a better oline and running game would have done the same.
The Giants TEs and RBs since our last Super Bowl  
UConn4523 : 5/17/2018 9:40 pm : link
have been toward the bottom, or even dead last as far as talent goes, during that timespan. Thereís only so many years you can get away with ignoring it, especially as the league evolves and features TEs who can stretch the field and RBs that are a dual threat, killing you with route running.

If we cut Eli Manning weíd still make these kind of moves. I donít what what else there is to say about it.
RE: RE: The narrative of getting a TE that can get downfield (in the seam)  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 9:47 pm : link
In comment 13967053 chopperhatch said:
Quote:


He was also apparently the best player left on the board now we look back right? I mean, I know that Engram was my choice and certainly not yours Googs, but looking back, Engram is tremendous value there.


chopper - I have always said I loved Engram the player but always felt he was a bit early to go at #23. But he was the clear target it seems. Would have loved some creativity here to drop back a bit, pick up some extra collateral, and still have gotten Engram. I liked the tackles Robinson and Rymacezk (sp?). Looks like all 3 turned into good value picks so no worries...
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/17/2018 9:52 pm : link
In comment 13967058 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13967052 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


I understand why they drafted Engram and know that we were being stifled by C2 looks because we had no one who could bust the seam - I'm saying that I don't recall management coming out and blaming the struggles of the Giants on that. Or even commenting on it like that at all.

Fans recognized it, it was an obvious problem.

This is why we drafted Evan Engram:

2013: Brandon Myers, Larry Donnell, Bear Pascoe
2014: Larry Donnell, Daniel Fells, Adrien Robinson
2015: Larry Donnell, Will Tye, Daniel Fells
2016: Larry Donnell, Will Tye, Jerrell Adams

End of story.



I kind of recall the Giants commenting on it with some of the coach pressers but not a lot (for obvious reasons). But i think we all agree it was a major problem.

I pined for a decent TE for years so we don't have to go down that path. But Engram certainly fit the bill on trying to solve for Cover 2, although a better oline and running game would have done the same.


It's possible - OP just painted it in a way that made it sound like the Giants blamed everything on that which seemed a bit disingenuous, but I don't really disagree with anything you said.

TE was a position of major need. We put crap there for several years after Bennett left for Chicago. I think most of us recognized that it was necessary regardless of the QB.
RE: Can this be sung t the tune of  
Ron from Ninerland : 5/17/2018 9:52 pm : link
In comment 13966204 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
Dayenu?
Best comment in this thread
RE: RE: RE: .  
Jimmy Googs : 5/17/2018 10:04 pm : link
In comment 13967071 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


It's possible - OP just painted it in a way that made it sound like the Giants blamed everything on that which seemed a bit disingenuous, but I don't really disagree with anything you said.

TE was a position of major need. We put crap there for several years after Bennett left for Chicago. I think most of us recognized that it was necessary regardless of the QB.


Of course...clear need whether we had Eli or Joe Shmoe.

A lot of talking past each other within this thread (nothing new I guess) as folks try to navigate their stories/personalities for typical reasons...
RE: RE: RE: The narrative of getting a TE that can get downfield (in the seam)  
chopperhatch : 5/17/2018 11:55 pm : link
In comment 13967065 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13967053 chopperhatch said:


Quote:




He was also apparently the best player left on the board now we look back right? I mean, I know that Engram was my choice and certainly not yours Googs, but looking back, Engram is tremendous value there.



chopper - I have always said I loved Engram the player but always felt he was a bit early to go at #23. But he was the clear target it seems. Would have loved some creativity here to drop back a bit, pick up some extra collateral, and still have gotten Engram. I liked the tackles Robinson and Rymacezk (sp?). Looks like all 3 turned into good value picks so no worries...


Commenting on ur post before this one to save space, I agree the Giants wanted and coveted a dynamic TE for years. Ebron was talked about the year we drafted Beckham. The next year, Hunter Henry was our target before the Chargers grabbed him and we took Shep.

Engram I think was a diff beast that also fit a need. You can make the argument that he was the most effective rookie in the league last year and his athleticism being off the charts, he certainly seems like the BPA. As far as trading down, it was widely known that the Falvons were trying to trade ahead of the Giants to take him. So it was 1st round or not at all to take EE
Chopper - Atlanta was all-in on taking a pass rusher  
Jimmy Googs : 5/18/2018 12:02 am : link
that year. They were overjoyed when Mckinley made it to their pick. I know some folks in the franchise.
I also agree Engram would not make it to 46  
Jimmy Googs : 5/18/2018 12:09 am : link
so Giants had to pull trigger if they didn't want/couldn't move down a bit further from #23.

Nevertheless, despite some drops in Yr 1 Engram certainly looks the part of a productive TE needed to help this Offense get untracked once we get everybody on the field together. Really good player.
RE: Chopper - Atlanta was all-in on taking a pass rusher  
chopperhatch : 5/18/2018 12:23 am : link
In comment 13967137 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
that year. They were overjoyed when Mckinley made it to their pick. I know some folks in the franchise.


I wont argue the point if you have those connections to the Falcs. But I had heard that the Falcons (or maybe it was the Saints) were crazy about Engram.

Either way, I dont view him as just filling a need. I always thought of him as a game changer. Only guy i wanted more was Reddick and Howard (whoops!).
RE: Can this be sung t the tune of  
royhobbs7 : 5/18/2018 9:40 am : link
In comment 13966204 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
Dayenu?


Jay in Toronoto:

That was one of the best comments I have ever seen on this thread?!?!?!!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Bottom LIne  
royhobbs7 : 5/18/2018 9:44 am : link
ARE WE ALL IN ON ELI?????\

Yes we are!
And why not?
Eli still has it. He can be excellent if given even another 1/2 second to throw provided that he has a running game which gives him, his favorite play-action fake (which Eli needs to be effective).
I.e., if the opposing defense has to even pause for one second to think about the run, someone is going to get open.
We have not had that since 2012; i.e., there was no reason for the opposition's defense to even consider the run because it was so inept!
Eli at 37  
royhobbs7 : 5/18/2018 9:46 am : link
Wan't Peyton's best year at 37?
Might there possibly be a genetic component here?
RE:  
steve in ky : 5/22/2018 3:01 am : link
In comment 13966906 bw in dc said:
Quote:


I don't think it's so much conspiratorial. It's more esoteric - Mara surrounded himself with a small group of football people who were going to be in lockstep with his thinking on Eli. Can you seriously deny that the pieces that fell into place - these new arrivals - could all have been predicted to be pro-Eli?


It's kind of funny but I view it as the opposite in that Reese was the guy whom Mara and he had gotten so comfortable working along side that possibly that familiarity created the situation to where it began to maybe allow Mara too much influence into the process. And in hiring DG Mara has went away from that and with a stronger willed GM who will lean less on ownerships input and more on his own convictions.
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