He went out and brought in a GM who has publicly said he has seen no drop off in Eli's arm or talent.
He went out and brought in an offensive minded coach , who has done wonders for other QB's , and has publicly said Eli has years left.
He used the 2nd overall pick in the entire draft to bring in Barkley , the most explosive RB in over a decade.
He used the 34th overall pick in the draft to bring in Hernandez , who may be the 2nd best guard in the entire draft.
He went out and signed , in fact overspent for the best LT in free agency , Solder.
He has what many consider to be one of the best WR's in the game , Beckham at age 25 coming back.
He has last years 1st rd pick Engram at TE , and an emerging star , lining up again for him.
He has Shepard , a 2nd rd pick at WR , who if he played a full 16 game season , would have put up a 1,000 yard season.
He also has a decent backup RB in Gallman , to spell Barkley from time to time.
Eli should be very grateful at 37 , that he has an owner who believes this much in him , considering how bad last year was.
Personally after comparing Eli's tape from 2004 to 2017 , it seems he hasn't lost too much on arm strength.
However I have seen a decline in his mobility , compared to 2004 , he is much slower , in fact very slow.
Mara has given Eli virtually everything he can to succeed.
It is now up to Eli to come through for his owner , team , and fans , and play QB at a championship level.
The question is will he?
We will have to wait and see
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but he also needs more than 1.9 seconds to get rid of the ball, which is about all the time he had on average last season.
And there were times when he had time but had happy feet, rushed his throw, and badly missed wide open guys deep.
Now one can argue he had happy feet because he has become accustomed to poor pass protection and his internal clock is off.
I have said, and will continue to say, that I've seen enough football in my life to know that sometimes don't get their courage back. I pray Eli does. But it's not a given.
We know that QB is a rhythm position. They have to get into a rhythm. Neither the o-line or McAdoo's bizarre playcalling ever really allowed that to happen.
I'm hopeful to see what it will look like with perceived improvements to both of those areas.
Not acknowledging the former is ignoring a significant piece of problem puzzle.
Shurmur is truly one of the masterful playcallers in the league. Old school. He'll keep the heat off Eli by tying the defense in knots with run/play action. The defense will be looking for Barkley off the bus.
Now - I expect Eli to be fine after a full offseason because he's got ice in his veins and Shurmur is the QB Whisperer. But Flowers, Hart, Reese & McAdoo could've caused permanent damage.
There aren't many good OLs in the NFL anymore. That said, the Giants' OL was clearly one of the worst in the league.
It's difficult to envision that this OL will be awful in 2018. It should be at least middle of the road now with potential issues at center and right tackle.
But how many teams have a Beckham-Shepard-Engram-Barkley arsenal?
Eli has become a losing QB. He's got to turn that around.
I think the lack of deep throws in our offense hurts any QBs rhythm to throw them. Let’s put it this way... the more deep throws we make, the better a rhythm will develop. I think the miss throw were magnified because we threw so little of them. Now with a run game and threat of play action... we should be able to take more shots and like you said.... with a great set of skilled players I expect more completions.
Oh, and I particularly love the quote "He also has a decent backup RB in Gallman, to spell Barkley from time to time." How generous of Mara to provide Eli more than just one running back...
Dear Jimmy ,
Eli had Gallman last year as well , just saying Eli is now surrounded with a substantial amount of talent.
I mean more so than many QB's in the league. We need him to come through , and I want him too , that's all.
Arm strength is good, release is good, yadda yadda yadda.
The one thing that has been Eli's biggest issue in his down years is his O-Line; if his O-line has been injured or sub par his play drops. What I mean, is the O-Line's performance has dictated his play.
It's almost like he gets the Yips when the O-Line is not playing well or isn't a good unit -- he's only done well when he's been CONFIDENT in the guys in front of him!
So if this rebuilt O-Line is good, we very well might see him make a comeback.
Thanks Allan
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In comment 13966215 bw in dc said:
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was going to be the plan after co-GMs Accorsi and Gettleman said they thought Manning still had plenty left in the fuel tank. No surprises to me.
If you believe in that plan, then Jints Central have executed it to a tee.
So I agree - Manning has a fridge full of food. And there really shouldn't be any excuses.
BW: We are lockstep in this; we have been since before the draft. Frankly, I don't believe Gettleman or Shurmur believe Eli has four or five years left. They may believe he has two years left, but I refuse to believe that any individual qualified to coach or GM a team can actually look at the film and say that Manning has years left. I mean, any layman can tell that his play has been garbage the last two years, and that is not all due to people not named Manning.
I think Mara wants to send Eli off with a better goodbye. I think DSG was deathly afraid to make his first pick the QB who replaced Eli, especially after he saw the vitriol spilled after Manning's streak ended. And if DSG really believed that Eli was the elite player he was years ago, he wouldn't have picked Lauletta in round 4.
This is all about one simple thing: Eli is now out of excuses. He's gotten a new LT in Solder, a new LG, and a new RG. So he has 3/5 of a new offensive line. He has Beckham back. He has the best RB prospect - possibly ever - to come out. He has Engram entering his second season. He has a QB whisperer as coach - the same guy who took Case Keenum and coaxed a 22 TD, 7 INT season out of the guy.
So, one of two things will happen: 1) Eli will continue his regression, be out of excuses, and DSG can move on to a young QB (not a retread like Smith) with no repercussions; or 2) Eli will rebound significantly, and if he rebounds enough, we could make a run, and DSG gets to go, I told you so. But if Eli is regressing, and we passed on a QB at the top of this draft (and one hits), he really screwed us unless we hit the lottery with Lauletta or Webb, which remains exceedingly unlikely based on sheer odds.
In 2016 Eli threw for 4000+ yards, 63% completion, 26 TDs, 16 INTs, 86.0 rating. I don't call that "garbage". It's not pro bowl worthy, but it's decent. He also performed pretty decently in the playoff game in Green Bay, but his receivers all played like shit.
2014 and 2015: he threw for combined almost 9000 yards, 65 TDs, 28 INTs, 93.0 rating.
Last year he had literally no o-line and no receivers and no running game. I doubt in a span of just two years he's become a completely different player than he was in 2014 and 2015. With Eli it is a lot about confidence: he needs to know he has time to throw and he needs a running game. When he has those things he has what it takes to win. Jerry Reese knew nothing about building an o-line, his two super bowls were mostly won with o-linemen he himself had nothing to do with. Now we have a GM who knows what he's doing when it comes to o-line. I refuse to give up on Eli based on one season of shitty stats where he had literally zero help around him.
Knee of Theisman ,
I like your stats , nice research , a man after my own heart.
Eli needs to put up or shut up this year. I love Eli, he is the most important athlete to me since I grew up watchimg him and he delivered two improbably championships for my favorite team (a team that's more about family than football), but for the sake of the laundry, he needs to produce.
There aren't many good OLs in the NFL anymore. That said, the Giants' OL was clearly one of the worst in the league.
It's difficult to envision that this OL will be awful in 2018. It should be at least middle of the road now with potential issues at center and right tackle.
But how many teams have a Beckham-Shepard-Engram-Barkley arsenal?
Eli has become a losing QB. He's got to turn that around.
Eric , nice post , I fully agree
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as opposed to the NY Giants. So if Eli doesnt come thru and win the big one, do all those players turn into pumpkins or something in your view?
Oh, and I particularly love the quote "He also has a decent backup RB in Gallman, to spell Barkley from time to time." How generous of Mara to provide Eli more than just one running back...
Dear Jimmy ,
Eli had Gallman last year as well , just saying Eli is now surrounded with a substantial amount of talent.
I mean more so than many QB's in the league. We need him to come through , and I want him too , that's all.
ok, fair enough.
I am sure you don't see it the same way but this is what causes folks to roll-eyes when you post too. I know you all take on a lot of crap as well but just sayin...
In my opinion Manning has plenty of arm strength left.
He also has the ability to still play QB at a championship level.
He has been surrounded with a tremendous amount of talent , more so than most QB's in the league get.
I mean take a look at all the 1st and 2nd rd picks that have been spent on his skill position players.
Much of his O line has been rebuilt , there isn't much more that ownership can do for him.
He's got a great coach , a good GM who has confidence in him.
We need Manning to come through , he is the engine of this team.
I'm not saying he needs to play at an MVP level.
But he needs to be like a point guard in basketball , where he accurately distributes the ball to his open receiver and lets them do there job.
I believe he can do this.
However if he faulters , there isn't much at that point anyone can do for him.
That's all
How he's hoodwinked everyone and put players career's in jeopardy just to give old Eli a good sendoff.
A more logical explanation is that the posters who come up with these theories are fucking morons. And pretty much beat the same drum over and over again.
Guess what - look at sxdxca's posting history. The guy is a fucking trainwreck who has posted a variation of this shit countless times.
Hi Fat Man in Charlotte , or should we say the Chubby kid from the South.
It's good to see your brilliant IQ is still in action.
As all you've ever done on this message board is bullied , berated , and vociferously attacked me and a whole host of other posters.
Thanks for letting us know that you haven't lost any of your wisdom , and insight...
It's much appreciated , keep up those encouraging posts to your fellow Giant fans...
I'm insufferable to idiots.
Isn't an owner supposed to make moves to make the team better? And isn't it part of the game that some of those moves will work, and some will not? Is it logical to believe all of those moves solved every problem on the team, leaving Eli as the only variable?
I hate to break the news to you, but this is an overly jaded and simplistic post.
Oh yeah...JINTS CENTRAL!!!
I am sure you don't see it the same way but this is what causes folks to roll-eyes when you post too. I know you all take on a lot of crap as well but just sayin...
Why you throwing me into this? Our OL still remains a question mark. We got new players... yes. But that doesn’t automatically mean success. I said we have weapons everywhere and I expect Eli to play better. But assuming the OL issues are solved before playing is jumping the gun IMO.
I'm good with that.
So now Eli gave Mara that but when the Giants lose its on the team and not Eli?
Seems many don't want to acknowledge that.
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once again, you are getting too close with some of those comments to crossing the line of what Eli needs/doesn't need to be a successful QB.
I am sure you don't see it the same way but this is what causes folks to roll-eyes when you post too. I know you all take on a lot of crap as well but just sayin...
Why you throwing me into this? Our OL still remains a question mark. We got new players... yes. But that doesn’t automatically mean success. I said we have weapons everywhere and I expect Eli to play better. But assuming the OL issues are solved before playing is jumping the gun IMO.
I know the new oline hasn't played a down...I'm briefed, thx. My post was responding to all your rhythm-talk and looking for something there to help the cause. Bottom line is there is not endless money/draft picks, and the Oline has 3 better starters on it...it should be better.
You can't simply tell me that DSG is a GM, therefore he is right. That is a ridiculous statement. GMs are not infallible. Jerry Reese was a GM. He got it wrong more often than he got it right. Now he's not a GM. I may not be a GM, but I have every right to say what I would have done, and time may prove me correct. I would have selected Josh Rosen. If Josh Rosen turns into a HOF QB, I would have been proven correct, even though I am not a GM.
Incidentally, there are a slew of GMs who believe that selecting a RB anywhere in the first round (let alone at #2) is a huge no no. They are GMs. Are they wrong? Something has to give, because a GM somewhere has to be wrong.
Furthermore, the notion that Reese did not address the OL is nonsense. He did not do it recently. But a few years ago, he picked Pugh in the 1st, Richburg in the 2nd, and Flowers in the top 10. He addressed it, he just did not get it right.
I would also like to clear one more thing up; I do not have any problem with the other picks DSG made. I loved the Hernandez pick. If we picked a QB at 2, the 4th round pick would obviously have changed, likely to a RB (unless we had picked one with one of our 3rd round picks). Nonetheless, I like what he did with the remainder of the draft. But I do not believe that he truly thinks Eli has many years left.
I am entitled to my opinion, even if it is only that of a layman.
I know the new oline hasn't played a down...I'm briefed, thx. My post was responding to all your rhythm-talk and looking for something there to help the cause. Bottom line is there is not endless money/draft picks, and the Oline has 3 better starters on it...it should be better.
The rhythm part is absolutely a crucial part of an offense. And the less you throw a pass in a game, the inconsistencies should be expected. Its no secret we didnt throw the ball downfield a lot last two years because teams took it away from us. So expecting to complete 40-50 yard passes downfield when they are thrown very few times is unreasonable.
Eli thrived under Gilbride throwing downfield because we did it a lot. I expect us to do it more this year cause we have better weapons and healthy weapons and I expect us to run the ball better which will help with the downfield throws.
So yes Eli has to complete them now.
My guess is you really dont understand. But thats ok.
Is that supposed to be Gettleman? If so, what the fuck is the "S".
Is that supposed to be Gettleman? If so, what the fuck is the "S".
Probably fat fingered it...the S key is next to the D.
I thought 1 would be enough. I did 1 more for you so you could understand. I dont want you lagging behind.
I'm not exactly pleased with his decision to pass over a QB for a RB, so I'll let you use your imagination.
You can't simply tell me that DSG is a GM, therefore he is right. That is a ridiculous statement. GMs are not infallible. Jerry Reese was a GM. He got it wrong more often than he got it right. Now he's not a GM. I may not be a GM, but I have every right to say what I would have done, and time may prove me correct. I would have selected Josh Rosen. If Josh Rosen turns into a HOF QB, I would have been proven correct, even though I am not a GM.
Incidentally, there are a slew of GMs who believe that selecting a RB anywhere in the first round (let alone at #2) is a huge no no. They are GMs. Are they wrong? Something has to give, because a GM somewhere has to be wrong.
Furthermore, the notion that Reese did not address the OL is nonsense. He did not do it recently. But a few years ago, he picked Pugh in the 1st, Richburg in the 2nd, and Flowers in the top 10. He addressed it, he just did not get it right.
I would also like to clear one more thing up; I do not have any problem with the other picks DSG made. I loved the Hernandez pick. If we picked a QB at 2, the 4th round pick would obviously have changed, likely to a RB (unless we had picked one with one of our 3rd round picks). Nonetheless, I like what he did with the remainder of the draft. But I do not believe that he truly thinks Eli has many years left.
I am entitled to my opinion, even if it is only that of a layman.
I'll take a free swing at this. It's not that GM's don't make mistakes. It's simply that your evaluation (and mine and that of everyone else on BBI) isn't worth spit in comparison. There are 32 NFL GMs. You (and me and everyone else on BBI) are ranked 500 millionith in line to get one of those jobs.
People have too much Eli on the brain. It's an obsession that's moved in to psychoses.
Don't really need to use my imagination because some fuckstick disagrees on a pick and decides to use a made-up moniker.
Reeks of the Jints Central bullshit that bw continues to use in every one of his posts about the team.
Don't really need to use my imagination because some fuckstick disagrees on a pick and decides to use a made-up moniker.
Reeks of the Jints Central bullshit that bw continues to use in every one of his posts about the team.
This is what I don't get. Why am I "some fuckstick" because I disagree with the pick? I am arguably childish in using the "S" for DSG. But my points remain sound for disagreeing with his selection. And time will prove whether he is right or I am. And even you don't have a crystal ball to prove that the Barkley pick is correct, so how can you say that I am or will be proven wrong?
I understand your side and understand your support for Barkley. I will support him and the rest of the Giants when they take the field in August for preseason and September for the real games, like I do every year.
Gettleman makes a pick you disagree with, so you make up a name for him?
Fuckstick seems appropriate. Especially applying your logic.
It's how they refer to Dave Gettleman at "Jints Central"
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What the fuck is "DSG" ?
It's how they refer to Dave Gettleman at "Jints Central"
LOL! Well played.