Is the OL fixed?

Understand how anyone can say the OL is fixed. They haven't even played one snap together. It could easily suck again. Won't the actual games tell us the answer?

more than one. Flowers and Hart were so bad that the other 3 spots looked okay.

It’s addition by subtraction. “Anyone” is better than Hart. Solder is certainly better than Flowers. If Omameh - Hernandez start, the weak link will be Jones but he may arguably have been the best lineman down the stretch last year.

Things are looking up !

And Hart are gone so it’s instantly better.

In comment 13969146 ColHowPepper said:

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Or perhaps even easier to look less than competent. But Jones also stepped in to C in '16 when Richburg went down, and my impression at the time was that the running game immediately became more cohesive and productive, until Jones went down. Again, he's no Pro Bowl C, but the last coaching staff and, to this point, the current one appear to believe he's adequate to start, given the absence of any major move to find a replacement, via draft or FA. Maybe that is nothing more than the way the draft and FA fell. But to your point, yes, given all the changes and moving parts, there is little certainty in how it comes together.

Come on man they gave Jones a weak tender on a one year deal.

He’s not the future, he’s just the best they could do given the way everything worked out.

Hopefully serviceable. Has to be better.

But Jones is light, Omameh was cut by the only team he started a full season for, and we still don't know who the starting RT is.

This does not inspire confidence and is anything but fixed.

Might get some time at RT too.

I wouldn’t rule out:
Solder/Hernandez/Jones/Grecco/Omameh

If one of Wheeler or Flowers plays above average at RT. My money is on Wheelwr. I think he will be one of the surprises this year. He has tremendous feet and that is the hardest thing to have at RT. He gained strength and is pretty coordinated

...but a good scheme and playcalling can insulate one subpar position on an OL. So we should see real improvement in both run blocking and time to throw the ball.

I will not be shocked in the slightest if Flowers, Jones and Jerry are opening day starters.

Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal.

Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability.

That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away.

In comment 13969279 christian said:

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I will not be shocked in the slightest if Flowers, Jones and Jerry are opening day starters. Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal. Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability. That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away.

Omameh showed more last season for Jacksonville than Jerry ever has. You're wrong about Omameh in that he is an excellent run blocker. Wheeler is athletic enough to start in the NFL and as long as he is healthy he will give Flowers a run for his money. I think the starting OL will be:
LT Solder LG Hernandez C Jones RG Omameh RT Flowers
It wouldn't surprise me if Wheeler starts at RT though.

In comment 13969301 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 13969279 christian said: Quote: I will not be shocked in the slightest if Flowers, Jones and Jerry are opening day starters. Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal. Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability. That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away. Omameh showed more last season for Jacksonville than Jerry ever has. You're wrong about Omameh in that he is an excellent run blocker. Wheeler is athletic enough to start in the NFL and as long as he is healthy he will give Flowers a run for his money. I think the starting OL will be: LT Solder LG Hernandez C Jones RG Omameh RT Flowers It wouldn't surprise me if Wheeler starts at RT though.

Literally everything I've read about Omameh is he's not a mauler, that Jacksonville ran much more effectively to the opposite side. He's been on 4 teams in 5 years, and has never attracted a long-term commitment. The deal he signed with the Giants is essentially a one-year contract.

In comment 13969307 christian said:

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Literally everything I've read about Omameh is he's not a mauler, that Jacksonville ran much more effectively to the opposite side. He's been on 4 teams in 5 years, and has never attracted a long-term commitment. The deal he signed with the Giants is essentially a one-year contract.

He isn't a mauler but he is solid. Look Omameh isn't going to be an all-pro out there but he should be a nice upgrade over Jerry at RG. Keep in mind that Gettleman is far better at evaluating OL than Reese was. Gettleman must've seen something in Omameh that intrigued him as there were several other options available in free agency. If Omameh doesn't play well then the Giants can get out of his deal rather easily but if he does then they have a solid player on an excellent contract.

There are question marks but there are question marks across every team in the NFL. We won't know how it will work out until midseason. It is up to Shurmur to create an offense that will mask any weaknesses that may show up. If we had the same starters coming back from last year at the same positions, you could accurately point out the offensive line is still broken.

Chad Wheeler, Evan Brown, Ethan Cooper, or Nick Gates develop into a solid starting offensive linemen. I am confident in Wheeler and so far I love what I have read of Brown. I will be keeping a close eye on Brown during the preseason.

In comment 13969331 The Tempest said:

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There are question marks but there are question marks across every team in the NFL. We won't know how it will work out until midseason. It is up to Shurmur to create an offense that will mask any weaknesses that may show up. If we had the same starters coming back from last year at the same positions, you could accurately point out the offensive line is still broken.

You could argue that until you see the OL perform that it still isn't fixed.

offensive cast behind them so it is a priority, Think DG/ Abrams see priorities very clearly, so think it gets done. We will find the $$$. Ability to identify talent that works with your team plan, is the key ( like New England) thinking we have those guys on staff here now. Great to fantastic offseason IMO. Good to feel optimistic again.

Some good thoughts. Seems like most of us think it will likely be better but not great, possibly not even average, but hopefully not the horror show it has been. As for me I am hoping that either someone surprises, we pick up someone that helps, or both. Obviously have to wait until the games start to see what we have.

Solder is only average or slightly above average? The guy is a stud. He was playing hurt at the beginning of the season. I believe he missed most of the offseason. Once he got back to game speed and got healthier he was dominant. Gave up only 3 sacks in the last 15 games of the season. From week 9 until the end of the season (Playoffs & SB included) he was the 3rd rated OT on PFF and he was the 2nd rated LT.

In 2016 when he was PFF 8th ranked OT and there 59th ranked overall player. PFF said he would have been higher on the list if it wasn't for the Super Bowl. Which he had a bad game.

Will Hernandez will be the best OG we've had since a prime Chris Snee.

Brett Jones was PFF 18th rated OC. So he's about average for a starter. Having Hernandez & Omameh next to him should be a huge help especially when you compare those two to the guys we had at OG last year.

Omameh was also a middle of the pack starter according to PFF. He did play for one of the better OLs in the NFL and had to help out with a rookie OT starting on the left side last year (Cam Robinson). Robinson was rated 23 spots lower then Ereck Flowers last year.

RT is a huge question mark. I'm hoping Chad Wheeler can win the starting job at that position. He wasn't great last year by any means, but I don't think he was horrible either. He was an UDFA so I wasn't expecting him to be good. A year in an NFL weight room while getting used to the speed of the NFL should really help him. Based off of his college career and off of the games he played last year I think he good be a good starting OT in the NFL.

We have FAR more talent then we had last year. So I don't see anyway that the OL is worse then it has been the last few years. With the talent upgrade at at least 3 positions it should be much better this year and we should be able to use more deep throws to attack the defense. Add in Saquon and the fact defenses have to worry about a legit NFL RB we should be much much better. Eli, Odell, Shepard, Engram, Latimer & Lewis should be able to light the score board up next year.

IF he finally gets his head out of his "you-know- what" I think he can still be very good at RT (which is the position that he was originally drafted for).

Hernandez is a pure mauling RG (don't know if he has experience at that position).

Under the best circumstances, these two young guys can be the next "Snee-McKinzie" combo on the "running side" - the right side. With a stud like Barkley running behind them - that's what I call a "sweet deal".

Could be just the same as last year Solder was a consolation prize when they guy they really wanted went elsewhere. Everyone is anointing a rookie as a savior at LG who has not played one down yet. Flowers or the forever changing RT will take time how long no one knows but it’s not really as important as the LT question we hoped we solved. RG is wide open I still can’t remember or spell the supposed new guys name (Omemah I felt bad for him let’s hope others do also on defense), let’s see if I have to change that. Centers are a dime a dozen the question for us is do we have a dime or a dozen this position is still not settled. Now for the real big question will the guy behind this boatloads of questions help or hurt them more?

has to do with whether or not the position is "wide open" or not. He's been active for 53 NFL games and started for 45 of them. Logic, along with the $15 million over 3 years, suggests a certain level of expectation.

In comment 13968992 DonnieD89 said:

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“Suburbanites” with Karl Nelson, Billy Ard, Bart Oates, Gary Reisonberg, and Brad Benson. All not stellar Olinemen individually but great chemistry as a unit. I am hoping that’s what we can get from today’s group.

At least get the personnel right. Reisenberg played RT on the OL to come together after the suburbanites. It was Bendon-Ard-Oates-Godfrey-Nelson.

But, it should be a lot better than last year.

I’m sorry but prior to this FA class I’ve never heard much about this guy and just like I said I could not spell his name. I did a little homework to correct that since he is a Giant but I’m surly not the only guy who knows nothing about him. Now here’s some info for you to consider Flowers has started 46 games Jerry over a hundred and both of these guys could be let go tomorrow and not one shed of tear would be lost from the majority of Giants fans.

If my memory is correct in 2014 we signed a high profile OG Jeff Schwartz who was considered one of the top UFA OL that was in all reality a terrible move but I did know a hell of a lot more about him at the time than I know about Omemah today. This is what we know about Solder to this point he has been a good but not great or outstanding LT in the NFL let’s home we get something close to a good LT for the next several years and not another Schwartz.

Sir I’ve got it right now please forgive my previous errors.

but the Giants have enough weapons to where it will be very difficult to stack the box

can we actually see them play first before making a judgement?

In comment 13969155 crick n NC said:

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Understand how anyone can say the OL is fixed. They haven't even played one snap together. It could easily suck again. Won't the actual games tell us the answer?

It's funny how the most obvious answer is usually the right one, and yet a lot of people walk right past it anyway.

The correct response as above, nobody has any idea yet. Could be fixed, could be just as bad, and there's even the potential it could be worse. I'd put it at 50/45/5 in terms of percentages if I had to guess.

Better? Yes.
It should be far better at LT and the G position that Hernandez plays. Beyond that, C has not changed (IMO Jones is serviceable, but nothing special, RT will be Flowers or Wheeler (who knows what we get there), and the other G will have serviceable journeyman playing at the position. IMHO, it will take one more off-season to finally fix it (assuming no injuries and Solder doesn't decline).

pro bowl contenders on the line then no it is not fixed. If you want to define fixed as no longer preventing the team from succeeding then it may be fixed. But the second question will only be answered when they put the pads on.

and Flowers et al have much to prove at RT, but the other three spots appear to be upgraded on paper.

In comment 13969766 JonC said:

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and Flowers et al have much to prove at RT, but the other three spots appear to be upgraded on paper.

I’m wondering if there are presently any Cs out there that could help solidify the position and Ol, or are they rather meh?

to where the offense should have no problem putting up a ton of points and yards every single game this season. I'm expecting a very, very deep playoff run this year and next year from what I heard from the GM, etc. No excuses.

Oh, ye of so little faith
Don't doubt it, don't doubt it
Victory is in my veins
I know it, I know it
And I will not negotiate
I'll fight it, I'll fight it
I will transform

In comment 13969778 Dave in Hoboken said:

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to where the offense should have no problem putting up a ton of points and yards every single game this season. I'm expecting a very, very deep playoff run this year and next year from what I heard from the GM, etc. No excuses.

Agreed. I’m with you unless you were being somewhat facetious..:)

In comment 13969778 Dave in Hoboken said:

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to where the offense should have no problem putting up a ton of points and yards every single game this season. I'm expecting a very, very deep playoff run this year and next year from what I heard from the GM, etc. No excuses.

I hope you're right.

But I fear you're living next door to the pot store from one of the states that's legalized marijuana.

I guess if you are so confident you're going to make easy money in Vegas? It's easy to say "you expect." SO the odds for giants right now are 7.5 wins. How much you putting down? $5m? $10m?

I love the guy's game. The Giants had zero interest in Richburg and instead wanted to bring back Jones, and did not sign any notable competition.

He is one of the few players who steadily improved under McAdoo and Mac's offense was probably the worst possible situation for him with the obsessive inside trap. As a player he is a machine-like bulldog who never backs down or loses confidence after a bad play.
Also built a reputation as a cerebral guy with good on-field vocal command calling signals.

Brett's a very bright guy: put him in a more diverse scheme like Shurmur's, who will ask more mobility of the C, and I really think you could see Jones blossom into one of the top C's in the league. He's got a rare tenacity that reminds me of Rich Seubert and I don't say that lightly.

no?

BB56, probably no legit options remaining other than seeing if an UDFA can rise to the occasion.

people we picked up. His reputation and success in this area leads me to believe we will be fine. Believe what you want all you armchair nay sayers.

... with Barkley, the OL won't have to hold their blocks as long as normally needed to get the running game going.

And with defenses having to honor the running game, the OL should get an extra second against the pass rush.

I believe the Giants will focus on physical play by the OL in the running game... just get and hold that first block - don't worry about the second level - let Barkley handle that with his talent. In my book, Saquon Barkley pays off huge dividends this year if all he does is force defenses to honor the run first. That, all by itself, will provide this OL with the opportunity to have all around success.

In comment 13970221 baadbill said:

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... with Barkley, the OL won't have to hold their blocks as long as normally needed to get the running game going. And with defenses having to honor the running game, the OL should get an extra second against the pass rush. I believe the Giants will focus on physical play by the OL in the running game... just get and hold that first block - don't worry about the second level - let Barkley handle that with his talent. In my book, Saquon Barkley pays off huge dividends this year if all he does is force defenses to honor the run first. That, all by itself, will provide this OL with the opportunity to have all around success.

Great post because I strongly agree. 😎...This has been my major point of contention as to why we will compete for the playoffs in the NFC, if SB is all that they say he is. Everyone, both on O and D will benefit, imo

and then let Barkley do his job.

Its a team game but individual plays fail (or are less successful) when focus is lost...

but is 318 lbs. With the short stature he gets leverage against DTs trying to bull rush him. I believe he'll do a competent job this year.

I'm more worried about Flowers at RT, but it's springtime, so I'm gonna work to get hopeful about that too.

Left side is set. And I'm banking on one of Jones, Omameh and Wheeler developing into the longterm solution at their respective slots. I think we'll be hitting OL early in the draft again next year and/or splurging on another big FA.

to tell - some good moves made. Right Tackle and depth will be determining factor.

In comment 13970153 TMS said:

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people we picked up. His reputation and success in this area leads me to believe we will be fine. Believe what you want all you armchair nay sayers.

That's the blind homerism we all love. We were among the worst OL in all of of football and now that we got a new GM -- now all of a sudden we'll be a solid group. I love the homerism here. Hope you're right.

In blind homerism I trust.

In comment 13970505 giantstock said:

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In comment 13970153 TMS said: Quote: people we picked up. His reputation and success in this area leads me to believe we will be fine. Believe what you want all you armchair nay sayers. That's the blind homerism we all love. We were among the worst OL in all of of football and now that we got a new GM -- now all of a sudden we'll be a solid group. I love the homerism here. Hope you're right. In blind homerism I trust.

I too wish I understood what some people get out of demanding blind loyalty and berating people who question things.

In comment 13969446 Matt M. said:

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In comment 13968992 DonnieD89 said: Quote: “Suburbanites” with Karl Nelson, Billy Ard, Bart Oates, Gary Reisonberg, and Brad Benson. All not stellar Olinemen individually but great chemistry as a unit. I am hoping that’s what we can get from today’s group. At least get the personnel right. Reisenberg played RT on the OL to come together after the suburbanites. It was Bendon-Ard-Oates-Godfrey-Nelson.

Was that Barbie Benton?

In comment 13970221 baadbill said:

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... with Barkley, the OL won't have to hold their blocks as long as normally needed to get the running game going. And with defenses having to honor the running game, the OL should get an extra second against the pass rush. I believe the Giants will focus on physical play by the OL in the running game... just get and hold that first block - don't worry about the second level - let Barkley handle that with his talent. In my book, Saquon Barkley pays off huge dividends this year if all he does is force defenses to honor the run first. That, all by itself, will provide this OL with the opportunity to have all around success.

I hope you're right.

But I think the OL on here is being overrated. The weaknesses of Hernandez and Omameh is in their pass protection. Jones.Omameh and Harnandez pass protection is a weakness. This is the worst possible scenario for an aging immobile QB. Trouble up he middle with pass protection.