I have seen several posters say they think it is. We all know that the "proof" will be on the field, but curious to hear what you all think as of today.
My thoughts to start.
LT - Solder will be a better than average LT
LG - Hernandez will be a better than average LG and will meet expectations.
C - Jones? Below average. Will work hard but does get pushed around.
RG - Omameth will be an average guard.
RT - Flowers/Wheeler? Average at best.
Reserves - Lots of mediocrity. Greco, Jerry, Halapio are decent as reserves, but not a lot of upside. Hoping Gates, Cooper, or Brown and step up.
Chemistry - I think the line has good character guys and will work hard to be good.
Scheme - Unknown but there are reasons to think it will be better than it has been in the past.
Conclusion - Better but NOT FIXED.Hopefully improvement in scheme, attitude, and chemistry helps. Barkley will also help. Could use one or two starter-caliber veteran signings if someone gets loose.
Positive: If Eli is trying to do his job, as opposed to just preserving his life, the line is fixed to the point of good enough.
That's the spirit!
Totally?
I don't know how you can say that and be serious. Is right tackle fixed when we don't even know who's going to be the starter there? How about Center? Jones is adequate at best but hardly an anchor we can all be comfortable with and not have any concerns with.
LT and LG are certainly upgraded and the jury is still out on RG but I think we upgraded there. At best I see three spots that were fixed but 60% of the line is far from 100%. That said, I never expected it to be fixed in one year. Upgraded and better than the last couple of years, yes, but complete? No.
Jones and Wheeler/Flowers should worry you greatly based on past performance. Omameh is just average. Ideally he's your worst starter but we're expecting him to be solid.
John Jerry or Ereck Flowers. One of these two will be starting - therefore it'll be another year or two before we can say the offensive line is fixed.
Henandez is rookie...not better then Pugh but better then Pugh on IR, there are enough guards/competition to hopefully find 2 starters and viable back ups.
Center is keep....must be able to anchor....
I am more hopeful this year....but need to see it, before I believe it.
To answer your question......Maybe
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Solder, Hernandez, Jones, Omameh, Flowers
Every other position is average or worse than average.
I think Hernandez is being overrated here. In his rookie year I expect him to be average maybe slightly below and then improve to average or slightly above as he moves on year over year.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Solder, Hernandez, Jones, Omameh, Flowers
Not to mention our top 3 running backs going into last season were Perkins, Darkwa a Vereen. Going into this season they are Barkley, Stewart and Gallman, another huge upgrade.
Lol.
First it was totally and now it's enough. What's next? Some? A bit? Kind of?
I continue to maintain that, unless Flowers' improves his PLAY (technique, anticipation, not over-dropping, maintaining good angles, and not lunging/dropping his upper body and improving foot movement), the move to RT from LT will not, per se, elevate his play. The only given in a move to RT is that the rushes will not come from the QB's blind side. There is too frequent position switching between RDE and LDE and various blitz/game schemes to posit that RT as such is an easier position to play than LT. Now, it may be that the way HC structures the running game will benefit whoever it is playing at RT, when it comes to PP.
Its fixed
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“Suburbanites” with Karl Nelson, Billy Ard, Bart Oates, Gary Reisonberg, and Brad Benson. All not stellar Olinemen individually but great chemistry as a unit. I am hoping that’s what we can get from today’s group.
Was Doug Reisenberg, and, yes, he was solid.
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RT should be ok since there’s at least some decent competition for the spot. Center is my main concern.
I think you have it backwards: Jones is no world beater but he has been a stable presence, knows his assignments, and can only improve not having JJ (or Hart) to his right and Flux on his left. Saying RT should be ok since there is decent competition, between two utterly unproven players at RT.
I continue to maintain that, unless Flowers' improves his PLAY (technique, anticipation, not over-dropping, maintaining good angles, and not lunging/dropping his upper body and improving foot movement), the move to RT from LT will not, per se, elevate his play. The only given in a move to RT is that the rushes will not come from the QB's blind side. There is too frequent position switching between RDE and LDE and various blitz/game schemes to posit that RT as such is an easier position to play than LT. Now, it may be that the way HC structures the running game will benefit whoever it is playing at RT, when it comes to PP.
Jones is every bit as unproven as anyone else, if we're being honest. It's easy to look competent playing among the wreck that line was last season.
But to your point, yes, given all the changes and moving parts, there is little certainty in how it comes together.
They will want young,cost controlled OL/team, and out of the Solder contract after 2 seasons if possible.
Worst case obviously is total fail in play/injury.
The best case is Omameh @26 plays well,they find a RT and Brown is an NFL C by 2019, AND, they find quality depth this season.
We're due for some good OL play given the general quality since mid 2012 has been between B and C+ at best, but more generally C and D.
It’s addition by subtraction. “Anyone” is better than Hart. Solder is certainly better than Flowers. If Omameh - Hernandez start, the weak link will be Jones but he may arguably have been the best lineman down the stretch last year.
Things are looking up !
But to your point, yes, given all the changes and moving parts, there is little certainty in how it comes together.
Come on man they gave Jones a weak tender on a one year deal.
He’s not the future, he’s just the best they could do given the way everything worked out.
But Jones is light, Omameh was cut by the only team he started a full season for, and we still don't know who the starting RT is.
This does not inspire confidence and is anything but fixed.
I wouldn’t rule out:
Solder/Hernandez/Jones/Grecco/Omameh
Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal.
Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability.
That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away.
Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal.
Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability.
That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away.
Omameh showed more last season for Jacksonville than Jerry ever has. You're wrong about Omameh in that he is an excellent run blocker. Wheeler is athletic enough to start in the NFL and as long as he is healthy he will give Flowers a run for his money. I think the starting OL will be:
LT Solder LG Hernandez C Jones RG Omameh RT Flowers
It wouldn't surprise me if Wheeler starts at RT though.
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I will not be shocked in the slightest if Flowers, Jones and Jerry are opening day starters.
Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal.
Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability.
That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away.
Omameh showed more last season for Jacksonville than Jerry ever has. You're wrong about Omameh in that he is an excellent run blocker. Wheeler is athletic enough to start in the NFL and as long as he is healthy he will give Flowers a run for his money. I think the starting OL will be:
LT Solder LG Hernandez C Jones RG Omameh RT Flowers
It wouldn't surprise me if Wheeler starts at RT though.
Literally everything I've read about Omameh is he's not a mauler, that Jacksonville ran much more effectively to the opposite side. He's been on 4 teams in 5 years, and has never attracted a long-term commitment. The deal he signed with the Giants is essentially a one-year contract.
Literally everything I've read about Omameh is he's not a mauler, that Jacksonville ran much more effectively to the opposite side. He's been on 4 teams in 5 years, and has never attracted a long-term commitment. The deal he signed with the Giants is essentially a one-year contract.
He isn't a mauler but he is solid. Look Omameh isn't going to be an all-pro out there but he should be a nice upgrade over Jerry at RG. Keep in mind that Gettleman is far better at evaluating OL than Reese was. Gettleman must've seen something in Omameh that intrigued him as there were several other options available in free agency. If Omameh doesn't play well then the Giants can get out of his deal rather easily but if he does then they have a solid player on an excellent contract.
You could argue that until you see the OL perform that it still isn't fixed.
In 2016 when he was PFF 8th ranked OT and there 59th ranked overall player. PFF said he would have been higher on the list if it wasn't for the Super Bowl. Which he had a bad game.
Will Hernandez will be the best OG we've had since a prime Chris Snee.
Brett Jones was PFF 18th rated OC. So he's about average for a starter. Having Hernandez & Omameh next to him should be a huge help especially when you compare those two to the guys we had at OG last year.
Omameh was also a middle of the pack starter according to PFF. He did play for one of the better OLs in the NFL and had to help out with a rookie OT starting on the left side last year (Cam Robinson). Robinson was rated 23 spots lower then Ereck Flowers last year.
RT is a huge question mark. I'm hoping Chad Wheeler can win the starting job at that position. He wasn't great last year by any means, but I don't think he was horrible either. He was an UDFA so I wasn't expecting him to be good. A year in an NFL weight room while getting used to the speed of the NFL should really help him. Based off of his college career and off of the games he played last year I think he good be a good starting OT in the NFL.
We have FAR more talent then we had last year. So I don't see anyway that the OL is worse then it has been the last few years. With the talent upgrade at at least 3 positions it should be much better this year and we should be able to use more deep throws to attack the defense. Add in Saquon and the fact defenses have to worry about a legit NFL RB we should be much much better. Eli, Odell, Shepard, Engram, Latimer & Lewis should be able to light the score board up next year.
IF he finally gets his head out of his "you-know- what" I think he can still be very good at RT (which is the position that he was originally drafted for).
Hernandez is a pure mauling RG (don't know if he has experience at that position).
Under the best circumstances, these two young guys can be the next "Snee-McKinzie" combo on the "running side" - the right side. With a stud like Barkley running behind them - that's what I call a "sweet deal".
If my memory is correct in 2014 we signed a high profile OG Jeff Schwartz who was considered one of the top UFA OL that was in all reality a terrible move but I did know a hell of a lot more about him at the time than I know about Omemah today. This is what we know about Solder to this point he has been a good but not great or outstanding LT in the NFL let’s home we get something close to a good LT for the next several years and not another Schwartz.
It's funny how the most obvious answer is usually the right one, and yet a lot of people walk right past it anyway.
The correct response as above, nobody has any idea yet. Could be fixed, could be just as bad, and there's even the potential it could be worse. I'd put it at 50/45/5 in terms of percentages if I had to guess.
It should be far better at LT and the G position that Hernandez plays. Beyond that, C has not changed (IMO Jones is serviceable, but nothing special, RT will be Flowers or Wheeler (who knows what we get there), and the other G will have serviceable journeyman playing at the position. IMHO, it will take one more off-season to finally fix it (assuming no injuries and Solder doesn't decline).
I’m wondering if there are presently any Cs out there that could help solidify the position and Ol, or are they rather meh?
Don't doubt it, don't doubt it
Victory is in my veins
I know it, I know it
And I will not negotiate
I'll fight it, I'll fight it
I will transform
Agreed. I’m with you unless you were being somewhat facetious..:)
I hope you're right.
But I fear you're living next door to the pot store from one of the states that's legalized marijuana.
I guess if you are so confident you're going to make easy money in Vegas? It's easy to say "you expect." SO the odds for giants right now are 7.5 wins. How much you putting down? $5m? $10m?
He is one of the few players who steadily improved under McAdoo and Mac's offense was probably the worst possible situation for him with the obsessive inside trap. As a player he is a machine-like bulldog who never backs down or loses confidence after a bad play.
Also built a reputation as a cerebral guy with good on-field vocal command calling signals.
Brett's a very bright guy: put him in a more diverse scheme like Shurmur's, who will ask more mobility of the C, and I really think you could see Jones blossom into one of the top C's in the league. He's got a rare tenacity that reminds me of Rich Seubert and I don't say that lightly.
And with defenses having to honor the running game, the OL should get an extra second against the pass rush.
I believe the Giants will focus on physical play by the OL in the running game... just get and hold that first block - don't worry about the second level - let Barkley handle that with his talent. In my book, Saquon Barkley pays off huge dividends this year if all he does is force defenses to honor the run first. That, all by itself, will provide this OL with the opportunity to have all around success.
And with defenses having to honor the running game, the OL should get an extra second against the pass rush.
I believe the Giants will focus on physical play by the OL in the running game... just get and hold that first block - don't worry about the second level - let Barkley handle that with his talent. In my book, Saquon Barkley pays off huge dividends this year if all he does is force defenses to honor the run first. That, all by itself, will provide this OL with the opportunity to have all around success.
Great post because I strongly agree. 😎...This has been my major point of contention as to why we will compete for the playoffs in the NFC, if SB is all that they say he is. Everyone, both on O and D will benefit, imo
Its a team game but individual plays fail (or are less successful) when focus is lost...
I'm more worried about Flowers at RT, but it's springtime, so I'm gonna work to get hopeful about that too.
That's the blind homerism we all love. We were among the worst OL in all of of football and now that we got a new GM -- now all of a sudden we'll be a solid group. I love the homerism here. Hope you're right.
In blind homerism I trust.
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people we picked up. His reputation and success in this area leads me to believe we will be fine. Believe what you want all you armchair nay sayers.
That's the blind homerism we all love. We were among the worst OL in all of of football and now that we got a new GM -- now all of a sudden we'll be a solid group. I love the homerism here. Hope you're right.
In blind homerism I trust.
I too wish I understood what some people get out of demanding blind loyalty and berating people who question things.
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“Suburbanites” with Karl Nelson, Billy Ard, Bart Oates, Gary Reisonberg, and Brad Benson. All not stellar Olinemen individually but great chemistry as a unit. I am hoping that’s what we can get from today’s group.
At least get the personnel right. Reisenberg played RT on the OL to come together after the suburbanites. It was Bendon-Ard-Oates-Godfrey-Nelson.
Was that Barbie Benton?
And with defenses having to honor the running game, the OL should get an extra second against the pass rush.
I believe the Giants will focus on physical play by the OL in the running game... just get and hold that first block - don't worry about the second level - let Barkley handle that with his talent. In my book, Saquon Barkley pays off huge dividends this year if all he does is force defenses to honor the run first. That, all by itself, will provide this OL with the opportunity to have all around success.
I hope you're right.
But I think the OL on here is being overrated. The weaknesses of Hernandez and Omameh is in their pass protection. Jones.Omameh and Harnandez pass protection is a weakness. This is the worst possible scenario for an aging immobile QB. Trouble up he middle with pass protection.