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Is the OL fixed?

Reale01 : 5/20/2018 10:58 am
I have seen several posters say they think it is. We all know that the "proof" will be on the field, but curious to hear what you all think as of today.

My thoughts to start.

LT - Solder will be a better than average LT
LG - Hernandez will be a better than average LG and will meet expectations.
C - Jones? Below average. Will work hard but does get pushed around.
RG - Omameth will be an average guard.
RT - Flowers/Wheeler? Average at best.

Reserves - Lots of mediocrity. Greco, Jerry, Halapio are decent as reserves, but not a lot of upside. Hoping Gates, Cooper, or Brown and step up.

Chemistry - I think the line has good character guys and will work hard to be good.

Scheme - Unknown but there are reasons to think it will be better than it has been in the past.

Conclusion - Better but NOT FIXED.Hopefully improvement in scheme, attitude, and chemistry helps. Barkley will also help. Could use one or two starter-caliber veteran signings if someone gets loose.
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Aside from the Cowboys,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/20/2018 10:59 am : link
what other OLs are fixed or not in need of a talent infusion? Fixing OLs is an ongoing process for MOST teams
Don’t think so,,,  
Rick in Dallas : 5/20/2018 11:13 am : link
Worried about right side of OL. It will be a 2 year process to fix the OL.
There aren't enough good linemen in the NFL  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/20/2018 11:15 am : link
for anyone to ever be happy with the reserves. No team has starting quality players waiting to come off the bench.
Center and RT  
WillVAB : 5/20/2018 11:24 am : link
Are the problem areas. RT should be ok since there’s at least some decent competition for the spot. Center is my main concern. Hopefully the UDFA is the real deal.
If Flowers can’t play RT any better than LT, and Wheeler falters or  
Ivan15 : 5/20/2018 11:45 am : link
is hurt, Greco May be the next best option. He is technically competent and played there before.
Soldier is the key  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/20/2018 11:45 am : link
Negative: Injury or age-play degradation and this is one of the worst signings of all time even if this regime was forced into it.

Positive: If Eli is trying to do his job, as opposed to just preserving his life, the line is fixed to the point of good enough.
I feel better about the Oline than I have in years.  
Giant John : 5/20/2018 11:58 am : link
Do I think it’s where I want it to be? No. Based on acquisions I’d give it a C+. May change my mind after I watch some meaningful games.
It’s totally fixed  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2018 12:00 pm : link
If you can’t operate an offense effectively behind these guys, it’s time to hang ‘em up...
RE: It’s totally fixed  
Reale01 : 5/20/2018 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13968960 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
If you can’t operate an offense effectively behind these guys, it’s time to hang ‘em up...



That's the spirit!
RE: It’s totally fixed  
Eman11 : 5/20/2018 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13968960 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
If you can’t operate an offense effectively behind these guys, it’s time to hang ‘em up...


Totally?

I don't know how you can say that and be serious. Is right tackle fixed when we don't even know who's going to be the starter there? How about Center? Jones is adequate at best but hardly an anchor we can all be comfortable with and not have any concerns with.

LT and LG are certainly upgraded and the jury is still out on RG but I think we upgraded there. At best I see three spots that were fixed but 60% of the line is far from 100%. That said, I never expected it to be fixed in one year. Upgraded and better than the last couple of years, yes, but complete? No.
Based on past performance it's absolutely not  
widmerseyebrow : 5/20/2018 12:29 pm : link
This is assuming Solder continues to be above average to good and that Hernandez is average. Remember many rookie offensive lineman are unable to be starters or struggle mightily. We're already hoping this won't be the case with our rookie.

Jones and Wheeler/Flowers should worry you greatly based on past performance. Omameh is just average. Ideally he's your worst starter but we're expecting him to be solid.
It's possible we are worse than last year  
widmerseyebrow : 5/20/2018 12:31 pm : link
No one wants to face that but it's true on paper. We are starting backups from the worst offensive line in the league this year.
It depends on what you mean by fixed. My guess is  
Ira : 5/20/2018 12:32 pm : link
we'll have an average offensive line - a big improvement from previous years, but nothing to brag about.
No, this OL is still terrible.  
FStubbs : 5/20/2018 12:36 pm : link
The things that might help are smarter guys coaching the players, a better locker room, and (hopefully) better health.

John Jerry or Ereck Flowers. One of these two will be starting - therefore it'll be another year or two before we can say the offensive line is fixed.
For all of us old timers who remember the  
DonnieD89 : 5/20/2018 12:43 pm : link
“Suburbanites” with Karl Nelson, Billy Ard, Bart Oates, Gary Reisonberg, and Brad Benson. All not stellar Olinemen individually but great chemistry as a unit. I am hoping that’s what we can get from today’s group.
It’s fixed  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2018 12:44 pm : link
enough.

It will depend if Jones can prevent being pushed into Eli's lap  
George from PA : 5/20/2018 12:51 pm : link
Solder improves the Tackles....as he is better then Flowers, and Flowers/Wheeler is better than Hart. With other being a viable swing tackle.

Henandez is rookie...not better then Pugh but better then Pugh on IR, there are enough guards/competition to hopefully find 2 starters and viable back ups.

Center is keep....must be able to anchor....

I am more hopeful this year....but need to see it, before I believe it.

To answer your question......Maybe
Put it this way and I agree with Googs,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/20/2018 12:53 pm : link
it’s fixed ENOUGH, enough to reasonably protect Eli and enable him to use his solid talent at the skill positions..Other than injuries, you won’t see this fan make excuses if things go awry
Huge Improvement. Will still be a big emphasis next offseason.  
est1986 : 5/20/2018 1:02 pm : link
Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Solder, Hernandez, Jones, Omameh, Flowers
No OL is not fixed  
giantstock : 5/20/2018 1:07 pm : link
The LT is better than average. But he is not all-pro.

Every other position is average or worse than average.

I think Hernandez is being overrated here. In his rookie year I expect him to be average maybe slightly below and then improve to average or slightly above as he moves on year over year.
RE: Huge Improvement. Will still be a big emphasis next offseason.  
est1986 : 5/20/2018 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13969005 est1986 said:
Quote:
Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Solder, Hernandez, Jones, Omameh, Flowers


Not to mention our top 3 running backs going into last season were Perkins, Darkwa a Vereen. Going into this season they are Barkley, Stewart and Gallman, another huge upgrade.
All our guys are average or much better  
PatersonPlank : 5/20/2018 1:10 pm : link
Yes its fixed. Job Completed!
Re: the "suburbanites line" not being stellar individually:  
Marty in Albany : 5/20/2018 1:12 pm : link
As I recall Brad Benson was a Pro Bowler and Bart Oates played in 5 of them and there were no flies on Karl Nelson, Ard or Chris Godfrey either.

its better  
Giants : 5/20/2018 1:25 pm : link
but not yet where it needs to be.They are going to need a surprise from one of the undrafted players to step-up for this season
too bad snacks doesn't want to play center  
gtt350 : 5/20/2018 1:41 pm : link
,
What backup are we starting from the worst OL?  
Carl in CT : 5/20/2018 1:42 pm : link
Jones? He was way better than Richburg. Ask the Eagles when are backups ran for 155 yds and threw for 400yds the second to last game (that mattered to Philly).
Choose to give this staff  
TMS : 5/20/2018 1:56 pm : link
the benefit of the doubt that they will find some gold in our draft picks.,UNDFAs and other teams discards. Or make a trade. They know the OL is huge for this team to turn it around .
RE: It’s fixed  
Eman11 : 5/20/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13968993 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
enough.


Lol.

First it was totally and now it's enough. What's next? Some? A bit? Kind of?
...  
ColHowPepper : 5/20/2018 2:06 pm : link
Quote:
“Suburbanites” with Karl Nelson, Billy Ard, Bart Oates, Gary Reisonberg, and Brad Benson. All not stellar Olinemen individually but great chemistry as a unit. I am hoping that’s what we can get from today’s group.
Was Doug Reisenberg, and, yes, he was solid.
Quote:
RT should be ok since there’s at least some decent competition for the spot. Center is my main concern.
I think you have it backwards: Jones is no world beater but he has been a stable presence, knows his assignments, and can only improve not having JJ (or Hart) to his right and Flux on his left. Saying RT should be ok since there is decent competition, between two utterly unproven players at RT.

I continue to maintain that, unless Flowers' improves his PLAY (technique, anticipation, not over-dropping, maintaining good angles, and not lunging/dropping his upper body and improving foot movement), the move to RT from LT will not, per se, elevate his play. The only given in a move to RT is that the rushes will not come from the QB's blind side. There is too frequent position switching between RDE and LDE and various blitz/game schemes to posit that RT as such is an easier position to play than LT. Now, it may be that the way HC structures the running game will benefit whoever it is playing at RT, when it comes to PP.
No sacks allowed in almost six months  
WideRight : 5/20/2018 2:18 pm : link

Its fixed
It’s totally fixed  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2018 2:38 pm : link
enough
As soon  
PaulN : 5/20/2018 2:40 pm : link
As the Giants crystal ball clears up we will let you know.
Good post  
eric2425ny : 5/20/2018 3:04 pm : link
Reale01. I am in agreement with pretty much everything you mentioned. I think we will be much improved this year vs last, but I think Gettleman needs another offseason to finish the job as it is likely he will need to find a legit RT and maybe an upgrade at C. That being said, if Wheeler and Jones tear it up maybe we are good to go. I didn’t even mention Flowers because even if he does start at RT this year I really don’t see us committing to him long term beyond this season.
Injuries = no continuity  
edavisiii : 5/20/2018 3:22 pm : link
As bad as the line was there was a few games where we ran the ball well, in every case the same line was together for 3 or 4 games.....each time someone got hurt and they had to reshuffle the lineup and they went back to REAL BAD! What little experience I had coaching OL at the high school level taught me one thing....communication is so key. For that, you need the same 5 guys. I was an assistant on a team the won HS Superbowl in RI. Our kids averaged 240lbs, they could move and 3 of them were honor students. The QB would audible into a play that attached the weak point of the Defense, and tow of them would instantly call out the assignments based on the front. What we were running was far more simple but the total was greater than the sum of the parts. Let's hope they stay healthy!
We don't know yet and...  
EricJ : 5/20/2018 3:27 pm : link
we still need to fix the right side. I hope that we add 1-2 more guys when the next wave of veteran cuts comes a long soon.
Like an old sock,  
CT Charlie : 5/20/2018 3:32 pm : link
it's darned. But it's still pretty thin.
RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/20/2018 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13969049 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:


Quote:


“Suburbanites” with Karl Nelson, Billy Ard, Bart Oates, Gary Reisonberg, and Brad Benson. All not stellar Olinemen individually but great chemistry as a unit. I am hoping that’s what we can get from today’s group.

Was Doug Reisenberg, and, yes, he was solid.


Quote:


RT should be ok since there’s at least some decent competition for the spot. Center is my main concern.

I think you have it backwards: Jones is no world beater but he has been a stable presence, knows his assignments, and can only improve not having JJ (or Hart) to his right and Flux on his left. Saying RT should be ok since there is decent competition, between two utterly unproven players at RT.

I continue to maintain that, unless Flowers' improves his PLAY (technique, anticipation, not over-dropping, maintaining good angles, and not lunging/dropping his upper body and improving foot movement), the move to RT from LT will not, per se, elevate his play. The only given in a move to RT is that the rushes will not come from the QB's blind side. There is too frequent position switching between RDE and LDE and various blitz/game schemes to posit that RT as such is an easier position to play than LT. Now, it may be that the way HC structures the running game will benefit whoever it is playing at RT, when it comes to PP.


Jones is every bit as unproven as anyone else, if we're being honest. It's easy to look competent playing among the wreck that line was last season.
^  
ColHowPepper : 5/20/2018 3:49 pm : link
Or perhaps even easier to look less than competent. But Jones also stepped in to C in '16 when Richburg went down, and my impression at the time was that the running game immediately became more cohesive and productive, until Jones went down. Again, he's no Pro Bowl C, but the last coaching staff and, to this point, the current one appear to believe he's adequate to start, given the absence of any major move to find a replacement, via draft or FA. Maybe that is nothing more than the way the draft and FA fell.

But to your point, yes, given all the changes and moving parts, there is little certainty in how it comes together.
One more offseason for us.  
old man : 5/20/2018 3:50 pm : link
Get and groom a LT in the draft, and one of a C,RG, or ST in the draft or FA, depending on the biggest fail.
They will want young,cost controlled OL/team, and out of the Solder contract after 2 seasons if possible.
Worst case obviously is total fail in play/injury.
The best case is Omameh @26 plays well,they find a RT and Brown is an NFL C by 2019, AND, they find quality depth this season.
We're due for some good OL play given the general quality since mid 2012 has been between B and C+ at best, but more generally C and D.


I don't  
crick n NC : 5/20/2018 3:56 pm : link
Understand how anyone can say the OL is fixed. They haven't even played one snap together. It could easily suck again. Won't the actual games tell us the answer?
O-line is only as strong as its weakest link and last year there was  
Ivan15 : 5/20/2018 4:26 pm : link
more than one. Flowers and Hart were so bad that the other 3 spots looked okay.

It’s addition by subtraction. “Anyone” is better than Hart. Solder is certainly better than Flowers. If Omameh - Hernandez start, the weak link will be Jones but he may arguably have been the best lineman down the stretch last year.

Things are looking up !
Flowers  
SoZKillA : 5/20/2018 5:05 pm : link
And Hart are gone so it’s instantly better.
RE: ^  
WillVAB : 5/20/2018 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13969146 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Or perhaps even easier to look less than competent. But Jones also stepped in to C in '16 when Richburg went down, and my impression at the time was that the running game immediately became more cohesive and productive, until Jones went down. Again, he's no Pro Bowl C, but the last coaching staff and, to this point, the current one appear to believe he's adequate to start, given the absence of any major move to find a replacement, via draft or FA. Maybe that is nothing more than the way the draft and FA fell.

But to your point, yes, given all the changes and moving parts, there is little certainty in how it comes together.


Come on man they gave Jones a weak tender on a one year deal.

He’s not the future, he’s just the best they could do given the way everything worked out.
NOT fixed  
IIT : 5/20/2018 6:39 pm : link
Hopefully serviceable. Has to be better.

But Jones is light, Omameh was cut by the only team he started a full season for, and we still don't know who the starting RT is.

This does not inspire confidence and is anything but fixed.
Omameh  
phil in arizona : 5/20/2018 6:41 pm : link
Might get some time at RT too.

I wouldn’t rule out:
Solder/Hernandez/Jones/Grecco/Omameh
It is serviceable with a chance to be above average  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 5/20/2018 6:45 pm : link
If one of Wheeler or Flowers plays above average at RT. My money is on Wheelwr. I think he will be one of the surprises this year. He has tremendous feet and that is the hardest thing to have at RT. He gained strength and is pretty coordinated
RT is the problem...  
Torrag : 5/20/2018 6:46 pm : link
...but a good scheme and playcalling can insulate one subpar position on an OL. So we should see real improvement in both run blocking and time to throw the ball.
...  
christian : 5/20/2018 7:01 pm : link
I will not be shocked in the slightest if Flowers, Jones and Jerry are opening day starters.

Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal.

Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability.

That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away.
RE: ...  
Jay on the Island : 5/20/2018 7:42 pm : link
In comment 13969279 christian said:
Quote:
I will not be shocked in the slightest if Flowers, Jones and Jerry are opening day starters.

Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal.

Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability.

That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away.

Omameh showed more last season for Jacksonville than Jerry ever has. You're wrong about Omameh in that he is an excellent run blocker. Wheeler is athletic enough to start in the NFL and as long as he is healthy he will give Flowers a run for his money. I think the starting OL will be:
LT Solder LG Hernandez C Jones RG Omameh RT Flowers
It wouldn't surprise me if Wheeler starts at RT though.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 5/20/2018 8:11 pm : link
In comment 13969301 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13969279 christian said:


Quote:


I will not be shocked in the slightest if Flowers, Jones and Jerry are opening day starters.

Omameh hasn't accomplished anything in his career to distinguish himself over John Jerry. By most accounts he's not mauler, but is decently nimble. He started a 13/16 games last year for a good team, and replaced by a much better player. He signed essentially a prove it deal.

Wheeler absolutely doesn't have the physical skills of Flowers and that will show in camp and in the pre-season. Flowers is clearly a butthead, but has plus athletic ability.

That said, the four guys competing for those 2 spots aren't long term, foundation type players. The Giants are still a ways away.


Omameh showed more last season for Jacksonville than Jerry ever has. You're wrong about Omameh in that he is an excellent run blocker. Wheeler is athletic enough to start in the NFL and as long as he is healthy he will give Flowers a run for his money. I think the starting OL will be:
LT Solder LG Hernandez C Jones RG Omameh RT Flowers
It wouldn't surprise me if Wheeler starts at RT though.


Literally everything I've read about Omameh is he's not a mauler, that Jacksonville ran much more effectively to the opposite side. He's been on 4 teams in 5 years, and has never attracted a long-term commitment. The deal he signed with the Giants is essentially a one-year contract.
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