There have been allusions to the opinion that McAdoo was “the worst Giants’ HC ever, even worse than H***ly.”
McAdoo was dreadful in so many ways and he ranks way up (or down, depending on perspective) there, but RH was indeed the worst, imo
H***ly, to me was the absolute pits. For those who do not recall or were not born yet, RH took a SB champion, albeit an aging one, with all the tools to make another run (or two) and drove them into the ground. His personnel decisons were dreadful, including going with Hoss (whom I will forever be grateful to) over Simms who was healthy and recovered from his season-ending foot injury the year before. He did, after all, lead us to our 10-0 start that ‘90 SB season.
For those of you who lived through the RH era, any input as to how he screwed the pooch of a SB winning team could be rather helpful to those who did not experience that time period. I mentioned the obvious one, Simms, I’m sure you have more unpleasant memories to discuss here.
And go. :)
Did Eli lie to the owner? Your schtick is really old.
Why do you believe Mara? Because he's the owner?
McAdoo was never what he was supposed to be, which was an offensive guru. Even during the 11-5 season (thanks to the defense), commentators were pointing out deficiencies in his blocking schemes. He did some things as far as training that seemed to work. His Xs and Os just didn't work on the side of the ball he was supposed to be good at.
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Did Eli lie to the owner? Your schtick is really old.
Why do you believe Mara? Because he's the owner?
WTF does this even mean? You do know the planning of benching Eli was told differently to Mara then Eli? And Mara wasnt even the one who acknowledges this.
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Did Eli lie to the owner? Your schtick is really old.
Why do you believe Mara? Because he's the owner?
There was a time you were an excellent poster. Am I misremembering? 😎
RH and BM seem more awful as they took talented rosters and nosedived. Arnsparger had a poor roster, but couldn't build a stronger team.
WTF does this even mean? You do know the planning of benching Eli was told differently to Mara then Eli? And Mara wasnt even the one who acknowledges this.
Frankly, I've never known who to believe in that debacle. I can easily see that situation just being the last straw in a season - a season with SB aspirations - gone sideways; and McAdoo quickly becoming the easy fall guy.
If you watched Mara in those post firing press conferences he was all over the place with his explanations. It was like watching Nixon talking about Watergate in '73.
RH and BM seem more awful as they took talented rosters and nosedived. Arnsparger had a poor roster, but couldn't build a stronger team.
I thought of Arnsparger the defensive guru we hired away from the Dolphins, but the squads in the ‘70s were brutal. He never stood a chance with that personnel imo
FWIW - Belichick was gone two days after the SB in '91 when he was immediately hired by Cleveland. And Parcells didn't make it announcement about his heart condition until May.
In comment 13969911 Big Blue '56 said:
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Bill Arnsparger has the worst winning % of all time among Giants coaches, .200. Won 7, lost 28.
RH and BM seem more awful as they took talented rosters and nosedived. Arnsparger had a poor roster, but couldn't build a stronger team.
I thought of Arnsparger the defensive guru we hired away from the Dolphins, but the squads in the ‘70s were brutal. He never stood a chance with that personnel imo
To the O P s point, Handley was prob worse than MacAdoo simple because he ruined a better team.
MacAdoo was stubborn, but he got little help from Reese.
I don't think you can say that at all. His first year Reese and the Giants spent 200 million on the defense. If he doesn't get that infusion into the D, they never go to the playoffs that year.
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WTF does this even mean? You do know the planning of benching Eli was told differently to Mara then Eli? And Mara wasnt even the one who acknowledges this.
Frankly, I've never known who to believe in that debacle. I can easily see that situation just being the last straw in a season - a season with SB aspirations - gone sideways; and McAdoo quickly becoming the easy fall guy.
If you watched Mara in those post firing press conferences he was all over the place with his explanations. It was like watching Nixon talking about Watergate in '73.
i tend to agree with the above view...
Yet, the Eli gets a pass around here for last year, by the Eli Faithful, because of all the injuries. And there is some merit there.
So why is McAdoo not given the same leeway? Why doesn't he some benefit of the doubt for the injuries? It's not like he caused the injuries...
Look, I never liked McAdoo. But to give Eli a mulligan and not McAdoo seems a bit disingenuous for the EFC...
I know you're smart enough to know how badly McAdoo did last season.
I also know you're smart enough to understand how Eli, having brought two championships to this organization, and done a great job as the face of the organization for more than a decade would earn himself a "mulligan", while a second year coach who lost the team, embarrassed the organization, and drew the owner into being personally involved in a historically bad public relations nightmare didn't.
You have to be posting something like this just to push peoples buttons or get a reaction out of them because you assuredly understand the "why".
McAdoo was getting fired no matter the outcome of the season prior to Raiders week. He knew that, took a swipe at the organization, lied to the owner. All it did was push up the firing a few weeks.
Seriously, H*ndl*y really screwed up, as you pointed out. Did H*ndl*y bring in R*d R*st as the DC, or what that a George Young decision. With 20/20 hindsight, R*d R*st changed the defense developed by Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick; that's how bad the H*ndl*y years were.
Given H*ndl*y was hired in May 1991 (right?), why didn't he promote one of the Giants position coaches? Hadn't Parcells already named Bill Belichick's replacedment at DC? Was Al Groh still with the team?
Lulz meanwhile Bellicheat was amassing a staff of Newsome, Staban, Lombardi, Pioli, Shwartz, Tannebaum, Dimitroff, Mangini.
Have to say f*** f**** f**** GY on this.
I know you're smart enough to know how badly McAdoo did last season.
I also know you're smart enough to understand how Eli, having brought two championships to this organization, and done a great job as the face of the organization for more than a decade would earn himself a "mulligan", while a second year coach who lost the team, embarrassed the organization, and drew the owner into being personally involved in a historically bad public relations nightmare didn't.
You have to be posting something like this just to push peoples buttons or get a reaction out of them because you assuredly understand the "why".
Hey Steve. I hear you. But I'm really not trying to be a fire starter here...
I just started thinking seriously about this from McAdoo's perspective. And that was mainly because he's been such an easy target in this.
Here is a guy - again, I think it was the wrong hire - who had never been an HC before; and gets the job in the biggest spotlight of NY. He looks odd and sounds odd. It's sort of immaterial to me, but he becomes the brunt of a lot of jokes, etc about his looks, personality, etc.
But then he then has this banner first year. Manning looks revitalized. McAdoo looks like the right hire as the successor to Coughlin.
Year two then rolls around and there are these very high expectations from the local and national media. McAdoo is now under pressure for even bigger things. Fine, right? Welcome to NY.
After an 0-2 start, we lose three really tough games - Philly on a 61 yd FG, a last second game winning FG in Tampa, and Rivers rallies the Chargers late to beat the Giants. And then there is this injury tsunami that overlaps all of this that essentially ends the season before Halloween. It's just the most unexpected start.
So McAdoo is left trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh-t - right? We see a mutiny going on with some players, which isn't a surprise with these expectations, and we see the continued residual effects of Reese's poor drafting creeping back in.
Help me understand, and I'm being serious here, what the hell did we expect McAdoo to do? He's never been a HC before, and this was his first time experiencing failure as the leader. Sometimes you get these seasons where everything implodes (vs. expectations) and there is no safety net to catch you. Did Jints Central really expect him to have all joy and glory from the get-go?
McAdoo was getting fired no matter the outcome of the season prior to Raiders week. He knew that, took a swipe at the organization, lied to the owner. All it did was push up the firing a few weeks.
What are the facts of those events as you seem to know them. I actually never think I have heard how this went down specifically.
If u know...
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on who you want to believe. You have chastised Eli and Mara enough and now are trying to somewhat defend McAdoo.
McAdoo was getting fired no matter the outcome of the season prior to Raiders week. He knew that, took a swipe at the organization, lied to the owner. All it did was push up the firing a few weeks.
What are the facts of those events as you seem to know them. I actually never think I have heard how this went down specifically.
If u know...
From a few sources from what I heard.
1. Reese and McAdoo basically laid out a plan to play younger guys to Mara. The situation as it was told to Mara was that when games got out of hand, whenever the time was, Eli would be pulled and the younger guys (probably Webb) would get game action. Mara agreed.
2. McAdoo approached Eli and told him he was getting a half no matter what.
3. When Mara heard of this, well we all know what happened. Shit hit the fan. Mara was so awkward trying to save face. But the word within the organization that what management told Mara was not the same thing told to Eli.
Both fired that Monday.
Different model
He actively destructed the team. He did inherent talent and got an infusion of defense that would have made anybody look better than TC.
But on offense he completely mismanaged his talent. The theory that Eli had to get above 65% completion to return to success was flat out wrong, and then when his falacy was revealed he insinuated it was talent rather than coaching and gameplanning. Coaches be judged by what they get out of their players, and his system did not fit his players well; he should have changed it rather than suggesting that he needed "better" players.
In addition, it appears he wasn't honest with upper management regarding Eli's benching. I bet some here know the details better than I, but thats unacceptable and a hallmark of failure. He didn't foresee any of that. What a mess
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I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.
They hated Han****. They had no respect for a guy who got caught but twice with another giving another guy head in the same Garden State Parkway rest area. He was a joke. Never heard from again after he was fired. He was by far the worst.
From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly
From a few sources from what I heard.
1. Reese and McAdoo basically laid out a plan to play younger guys to Mara. The situation as it was told to Mara was that when games got out of hand, whenever the time was, Eli would be pulled and the younger guys (probably Webb) would get game action. Mara agreed.
2. McAdoo approached Eli and told him he was getting a half no matter what.
3. When Mara heard of this, well we all know what happened. Shit hit the fan. Mara was so awkward trying to save face. But the word within the organization that what management told Mara was not the same thing told to Eli.
Both fired that Monday.
Really? So Mara was lying his ass off at the press conference, announcing the firing, when he said "the Eli Manning benching decision had no effect whatsoever"on his decision to fire McAdoo. He added "2-10 is 2-10."
Sorry, but I call total bullsh-t on your sources. McAdoo and Reese got the axe not for mishandling the Eli situation. They got axed for a season gone awry and, more importantly, the enormous blow back he got when from the media and the fans when Eli was benched. Mara knew exactly what was going on with the plan. There were no surprises.
One thing John learned from Papa Welli is that once the fans start to revolt then the dam has broken. And that's what occurred here.
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From a few sources from what I heard.
1. Reese and McAdoo basically laid out a plan to play younger guys to Mara. The situation as it was told to Mara was that when games got out of hand, whenever the time was, Eli would be pulled and the younger guys (probably Webb) would get game action. Mara agreed.
2. McAdoo approached Eli and told him he was getting a half no matter what.
3. When Mara heard of this, well we all know what happened. Shit hit the fan. Mara was so awkward trying to save face. But the word within the organization that what management told Mara was not the same thing told to Eli.
Both fired that Monday.
Really? So Mara was lying his ass off at the press conference, announcing the firing, when he said "the Eli Manning benching decision had no effect whatsoever"on his decision to fire McAdoo. He added "2-10 is 2-10."
Sorry, but I call total bullsh-t on your sources. McAdoo and Reese got the axe not for mishandling the Eli situation. They got axed for a season gone awry and, more importantly, the enormous blow back he got when from the media and the fans when Eli was benched. Mara knew exactly what was going on with the plan. There were no surprises.
One thing John learned from Papa Welli is that once the fans start to revolt then the dam has broken. And that's what occurred here.
Ok. But this has been reported by multiple people here. You choose not to believe it because it goes against your agenda as well. So it is what it is.
Ok. But this has been reported by multiple people here. You choose not to believe it because it goes against your agenda as well. So it is what it is.
So, again, Mara was or wasn't lying at the press conference?
He was asked a direct question about the Eli question and he gave the answer I quoted above. Not my words, his.
You really think Reese and McAdoo pulled this coup/mutiny thinking it wouldn't have major repercussions?
These NFL professionals thought it was so important to try to win a game - one f-ckin game in a season already lost - that it was worth putting their careers at risk to piss in their owner's face?
Seriously, does that remotely make any sense to you?
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Ok. But this has been reported by multiple people here. You choose not to believe it because it goes against your agenda as well. So it is what it is.
So, again, Mara was or wasn't lying at the press conference?
He was asked a direct question about the Eli question and he gave the answer I quoted above. Not my words, his.
You really think Reese and McAdoo pulled this coup/mutiny thinking it wouldn't have major repercussions?
These NFL professionals thought it was so important to try to win a game - one f-ckin game in a season already lost - that it was worth putting their careers at risk to piss in their owner's face?
Seriously, does that remotely make any sense to you?
I have been told the same thing by multiple people associated with the team. So yes I do. If you choose not to believe it, you dont have too.
But the aftermath suggests that the sources are more valid than you choose to believe.
But the aftermath suggests that the sources are more valid than you choose to believe.
I don't believe them because it's absurd.
In essence, all parties met - Mara, Reese, McAdoo - and agreed on a plan contingent on subbing out Eli only if there was a blowout.
But then in a complete act of defiance, Reese and McAdoo met separately, decided that the better plan was to don career suicide vests, run down the halls at Jints Central yelling 'Praise to Geno', and then blow up their careers.
That's your position via your sources??
Jerry Reese, an employee at Jints Central since 1994, felt this was how he wanted to end his 23 year career?
And forty year McAdoo felt this was the best way to end his very first head coaching gig in the NFL?
Do you know what this is? This is your sources asking you to be dumb and gullible at the same time.
Mcadoo's full name, Handley should have the same respect at this point. At one time I was in full agreement that his name should never be mentioned out loud or ... in text on this site. But, (IMO) Mcadoo was the Giant's worst HC since the mid 70's - when they were all fired the next day.
: )
Maybe, just maybe, you’re wrong.
First off, I'd have expected Mac not to come in after a successful first year looking like Gordon Gecko and seemingly with an arrogance that probably set some of the players off from the get-go last year.
Then, I wouldn't have had press conferences where I'm essentially giving the OL a free pass and even praising their play while making comments that the QB has to play better.
Mac's biggest fault is that he couldn't read a room. Didn't know how to handle the questions without looking like he was in over his head. Didn't know how to handle player conflict.
He seemingly didn't have a contingency plan for if a season goes South. If he truly wanted to get a feel for what he had with the team and to succession plan for Eli - he could've started prepping Webb to play when the season was 0-5. He could've made Webb the backup and got him enough reps so he could bench Eli for a legitimate reason.
Regardless of what the conspiracy theories are surrounding the decision to bench Eli, one point is really undebateable. Mac failed to properly prepare for the scenario by not grooming webb and by making Geno the punchline to the whole fiasco.
Maybe 1,001 will do the trick!
If you choose not to believe, then thats ok too.
Mac's biggest fault is that he couldn't read a room. Didn't know how to handle the questions without looking like he was in over his head. Didn't know how to handle player conflict.
He seemingly didn't have a contingency plan for if a season goes South. If he truly wanted to get a feel for what he had with the team and to succession plan for Eli - he could've started prepping Webb to play when the season was 0-5. He could've made Webb the backup and got him enough reps so he could bench Eli for a legitimate reason.
Regardless of what the conspiracy theories are surrounding the decision to bench Eli, one point is really undebateable. Mac failed to properly prepare for the scenario by not grooming webb and by making Geno the punchline to the whole fiasco.
You and I basically agree on nothing - typically.
But I totally agree on your commentary here - McAdoo was negligent in not getting Webb ready for play once it was abundantly clear the season was flat-lined.
Maybe, just maybe, you’re wrong.
Fair enough.
If the 2018 Giants are successful..it will because they stayed healthy. If the injury bug bites again...4-5 wins might be the ceiling.
All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -
"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."
I don't think GY did but, it would have been nice if he lived long enough to see BB's success. Letting him go is just as bad as letting Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry go for Allie Sherman? sheez ...
All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -
"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."
I don't think GY did but, it would have been nice if he lived long enough to see BB's success. Letting him go is just as bad as letting Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry go for Allie Sherman? sheez ...
All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -
"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."
All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -
"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."
All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -
"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."