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H***ly vs McAdoo

Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 8:17 am
There have been allusions to the opinion that McAdoo was “the worst Giants’ HC ever, even worse than H***ly.”

McAdoo was dreadful in so many ways and he ranks way up (or down, depending on perspective) there, but RH was indeed the worst, imo

H***ly, to me was the absolute pits. For those who do not recall or were not born yet, RH took a SB champion, albeit an aging one, with all the tools to make another run (or two) and drove them into the ground. His personnel decisons were dreadful, including going with Hoss (whom I will forever be grateful to) over Simms who was healthy and recovered from his season-ending foot injury the year before. He did, after all, lead us to our 10-0 start that ‘90 SB season.

For those of you who lived through the RH era, any input as to how he screwed the pooch of a SB winning team could be rather helpful to those who did not experience that time period. I mentioned the obvious one, Simms, I’m sure you have more unpleasant memories to discuss here.

And go. :)


Handley  
DC Gmen Fan : 5/21/2018 8:17 am : link
exorcise the demons and the truth shall set you free. HANDLEY.
RE: Handley  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 8:18 am : link
In comment 13969498 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
exorcise the demons and the truth shall set you free. HANDLEY.


I’m trying, but it’s very painful
Why???  
kennyd : 5/21/2018 8:22 am : link
why go through this? You are truly a sado-masochist.
Handley was clueless  
jlukes : 5/21/2018 8:23 am : link
McAdoo was a stubborn asshole


Putting those together  
section125 : 5/21/2018 8:23 am : link
in a post for discussion should be a bannable offense...
Banning would be fine,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 8:27 am : link
but there are those (many?) who have little to zero idea how bad RH was. So it’s kind of an eye-opener when some say BM was the worst ever, as awful as he proved to be
Or,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 8:29 am : link
we could discuss not drafting a QB vs taking a RB at 2..😜😜
Handley's major crime was jettisoning Ron Ehrhardt's offense  
GeofromNJ : 5/21/2018 8:29 am : link
and running a naked backfield with Hostetler. It was for this reason that he benched Simms and played Hostetler. But this formation never, ever worked. Yet Handley continued to run it. It was truly bizarre.
Handled lost the media early. That was maybe his biggest mistake  
Ivan15 : 5/21/2018 8:34 am : link
McAdoo lost the team.

Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.
McAdoo had a successful first year  
bluepepper : 5/21/2018 8:36 am : link
making this an easy call.
RE: Handled lost the media early. That was maybe his biggest mistake  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 8:37 am : link
In comment 13969520 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
McAdoo lost the team.

Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.


Funny about the media stuff, in that given 20-20 they should have gone with Belichick, but he was even worse with the media and obviously not a favorite HC candidate of Gy’s..
RE: Handley's major crime was jettisoning Ron Ehrhardt's offense  
Victor in CT : 5/21/2018 8:39 am : link
In comment 13969515 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
and running a naked backfield with Hostetler. It was for this reason that he benched Simms and played Hostetler. But this formation never, ever worked. Yet Handley continued to run it. It was truly bizarre.


Worse than scrapping the Parcells/Belichick defense for the Rod Rust "read and react"? I don't think so.

They both equally sucked in their own way. I think Handley was certainly more intelligent, but definitely not HC material. But George Young thought he would be great for some reason. He actually came off as pretty sharp in "No Medals for Trying".

RE: RE: Handley's major crime was jettisoning Ron Ehrhardt's offense  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 8:44 am : link
In comment 13969531 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13969515 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


and running a naked backfield with Hostetler. It was for this reason that he benched Simms and played Hostetler. But this formation never, ever worked. Yet Handley continued to run it. It was truly bizarre.



Worse than scrapping the Parcells/Belichick defense for the Rod Rust "read and react"? I don't think so.

They both equally sucked in their own way. I think Handley was certainly more intelligent, but definitely not HC material. But George Young thought he would be great for some reason. He actually came off as pretty sharp in "No Medals for Trying".


I’ve mentioned this previously, but I recall after the RH hiring, Al Michaels being interviewed and he stated that RH was brilliant and he was going to be a Great HC.
RE: Handley was clueless  
Beer Man : 5/21/2018 8:48 am : link
In comment 13969506 jlukes said:
Quote:
McAdoo was a stubborn asshole

+1
Both sucked  
PaulN : 5/21/2018 9:09 am : link
Who is worse, flip a coin, and yes, McAdoo was that bad and we will learn that over the next few seasons.
RE: Or,  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/21/2018 9:13 am : link
In comment 13969514 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
we could discuss not drafting a QB vs taking a RB at 2..😜😜


Good lord, I'd rather dedicate a holiday to Handley than have that bloody conversation one more time.
RE: RE: Handled lost the media early. That was maybe his biggest mistake  
smshmth8690 : 5/21/2018 9:15 am : link
In comment 13969526 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969520 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


McAdoo lost the team.

Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.



Funny about the media stuff, in that given 20-20 they should have gone with Belichick, but he was even worse with the media and obviously not a favorite HC candidate of Gy’s..


I know GY probably would not have gone with Belichick, but the Tuna made sure that he didn't have the opportunity to at least consider it.
From the beginning he was such an unlikable cunt  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/21/2018 9:22 am : link
...with all the charisma of a substitute math teacher. Then he made horrible decision after horrible decision, and blamed his lack of success on being stuck with Parcell’s draft picks (like Rodney Hampton, boo hoo).

His second year was more of the same, only intensified.
RE: RE: RE: Handled lost the media early. That was maybe his biggest mistake  
Victor in CT : 5/21/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 13969581 smshmth8690 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969526 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13969520 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


McAdoo lost the team.

Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.



Funny about the media stuff, in that given 20-20 they should have gone with Belichick, but he was even worse with the media and obviously not a favorite HC candidate of Gy’s..



I know GY probably would not have gone with Belichick, but the Tuna made sure that he didn't have the opportunity to at least consider it.


STOP BLAMING PARCELLS! Geroge Young would NEVER have hired BB as HC and said so repeatedly. GY wanted Handley.
RE: From the beginning he was such an unlikable cunt  
Victor in CT : 5/21/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 13969596 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...with all the charisma of a substitute math teacher. Then he made horrible decision after horrible decision, and blamed his lack of success on being stuck with Parcell’s draft picks (like Rodney Hampton, boo hoo).

His second year was more of the same, only intensified.


Interesting vcomment, since he was a Mathmetician.
RE: RE: RE: Handled lost the media early. That was maybe his biggest mistake  
Bramton1 : 5/21/2018 9:25 am : link
In comment 13969581 smshmth8690 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969526 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13969520 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


McAdoo lost the team.

Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.



Funny about the media stuff, in that given 20-20 they should have gone with Belichick, but he was even worse with the media and obviously not a favorite HC candidate of Gy’s..



I know GY probably would not have gone with Belichick, but the Tuna made sure that he didn't have the opportunity to at least consider it.


Parcells quitting in May really screwed the team bad. Had he quit right after the Super Bowl, the Giants probably bring in someone else for HC. But it wouldn't have been Belichick.
BB56, Please, My Eyes!  
Trainmaster : 5/21/2018 9:47 am : link
Mc*d** !

Seriously, H*ndl*y really screwed up, as you pointed out. Did H*ndl*y bring in R*d R*st as the DC, or what that a George Young decision. With 20/20 hindsight, R*d R*st changed the defense developed by Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick; that's how bad the H*ndl*y years were.

Given H*ndl*y was hired in May 1991 (right?), why didn't he promote one of the Giants position coaches? Hadn't Parcells already named Bill Belichick's replacedment at DC? Was Al Groh still with the team?

Players hated him  
Reale01 : 5/21/2018 9:48 am : link
I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.
RE: RE: Handley  
Gman11 : 5/21/2018 9:52 am : link
In comment 13969499 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969498 DC Gmen Fan said:


Quote:


exorcise the demons and the truth shall set you free. HANDLEY.



I’m trying, but it’s very painful
For crying out loud, act like a freakin' adult. HANDLEY.
RE: Players hated him  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 9:54 am : link
In comment 13969641 Reale01 said:
Quote:
I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.


From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly
Also agree about GY amd BB.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 9:55 am : link
No matter when Parcells left, Young was not going with BB. Supposedly felt he wasn’t mature enough to handle being a HC
His death was 12.9.01.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 9:57 am : link
He never really saw what BB went on to do many times
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/21/2018 9:58 am : link
McAdoo was a complete prick. Just a really unlikable guy. Handley seemed to be more in over his head.
RE: Both sucked  
Rick5 : 5/21/2018 9:59 am : link
In comment 13969573 PaulN said:
Quote:
Who is worse, flip a coin, and yes, McAdoo was that bad and we will learn that over the next few seasons.

+1
Handley is on George Young  
joeinpa : 5/21/2018 10:05 am : link
He never even considered Belichick because of his personality.

To the O P s point, Handley was prob worse than MacAdoo simple because he ruined a better team.

MacAdoo was stubborn, but he got little help from Reese.
RE: Both sucked  
Sec 103 : 5/21/2018 10:08 am : link
In comment 13969573 PaulN said:
Quote:
Who is worse, flip a coin, and yes, McAdoo was that bad and we will learn that over the next few seasons.

Slight edge to Handjob, horrendous
RE: Both sucked  
Sec 103 : 5/21/2018 10:08 am : link
In comment 13969573 PaulN said:
Quote:
Who is worse, flip a coin, and yes, McAdoo was that bad and we will learn that over the next few seasons.

Slight edge to Handjob, horrendous
RE: RE: Players hated him  
Victor in CT : 5/21/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 13969657 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969641 Reale01 said:


Quote:


I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.



From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly


Yeah, but if you recall, there was alot of "Ray treats us like men", crap the first year, that they were tired of BP busting their balls. I remember Leonard Marshall being one of them saying that. And Hostetler the Whiner certainly loved him. But he actually though he was better than Simms and that Parcells was keeping him down. Ditto Todd Blackledge and Paterno.
I keep waiting for a Star Wars twist where we learn that  
PatersonPlank : 5/21/2018 10:12 am : link
H***ley is really McA***s father. They are so earily similar.
"Coach Mac, I am your father".
RE: RE: RE: Players hated him  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 10:17 am : link
In comment 13969688 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13969657 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13969641 Reale01 said:


Quote:


I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.



From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly



Yeah, but if you recall, there was alot of "Ray treats us like men", crap the first year, that they were tired of BP busting their balls. I remember Leonard Marshall being one of them saying that. And Hostetler the Whiner certainly loved him. But he actually though he was better than Simms and that Parcells was keeping him down. Ditto Todd Blackledge and Paterno.


I believe I heard that too when he was hired and shortly thereafter. It was as the actual season progressed and the nature of how things began to spin out of control that the Vets became disenchanted. By season 2 it was a complete mess iirc
RE: BB56, Please, My Eyes!  
bluepepper : 5/21/2018 10:17 am : link
In comment 13969639 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Mc*d** !

Seriously, H*ndl*y really screwed up, as you pointed out. Did H*ndl*y bring in R*d R*st as the DC, or what that a George Young decision. With 20/20 hindsight, R*d R*st changed the defense developed by Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick; that's how bad the H*ndl*y years were.

Given H*ndl*y was hired in May 1991 (right?), why didn't he promote one of the Giants position coaches? Hadn't Parcells already named Bill Belichick's replacedment at DC? Was Al Groh still with the team?

Al Groh was DC in 1991. Rust was hired in 1992 after Groh left/was pushed out.
i drove by McAdoo PA on 81 south yesterday  
mattlawson : 5/21/2018 10:18 am : link
I almost drove off the ensuing bridge.
I blame George Young  
cjohn2979 : 5/21/2018 10:25 am : link
for what happened with Ray Handley. Parcells promoted Handley from RB coach to OC and then quit. Before training camp began George Young promoted him to HC. Handley went from RB coach to HC. He was in way over his head and thats on Young.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Players hated him  
Victor in CT : 5/21/2018 10:25 am : link
In comment 13969706 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969688 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 13969657 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13969641 Reale01 said:


Quote:


I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.



From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly



Yeah, but if you recall, there was alot of "Ray treats us like men", crap the first year, that they were tired of BP busting their balls. I remember Leonard Marshall being one of them saying that. And Hostetler the Whiner certainly loved him. But he actually though he was better than Simms and that Parcells was keeping him down. Ditto Todd Blackledge and Paterno.



I believe I heard that too when he was hired and shortly thereafter. It was as the actual season progressed and the nature of how things began to spin out of control that the Vets became disenchanted. By season 2 it was a complete mess iirc


Yes, I remember it that way too.
RE: I blame George Young  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 10:33 am : link
In comment 13969728 cjohn2979 said:
Quote:
for what happened with Ray Handley. Parcells promoted Handley from RB coach to OC and then quit. Before training camp began George Young promoted him to HC. Handley went from RB coach to HC. He was in way over his head and thats on Young.


Otoh and iirc, John Harbaugh was promoted from DB coach to HC of the Ravens..:)
Handley was given a Super Bowl dynasty...  
x meadowlander : 5/21/2018 10:50 am : link
...still mostly intact and DESTROYED it.

McAdoo was given a trainwreck and immediately managed playoffs with it.

He gets credit for that.

Last season, injuries were a bigger factor than anything McAdoo could have done - I still agree with firing him, but I don't blame him as much as I blamed Handley.
Mac  
Doomster : 5/21/2018 11:05 am : link
was fortunate because of the schedule.......because the 200M spent on the defense panned out for one season....

He got away with an offense that was Eli to OBj, and nothing else, because he had a defense that could hold a fourth quarter lead....

The planets lined up for one season for Mac......the next year, when we had problems and we needed a coach that could make adjustements, we finally saw what we truly had....
Common thread on  
Daniel in MI : 5/21/2018 11:09 am : link
Both - they followed Giants legends and 2 time champs. That’s no easy gig, and for RH, whoever followed Tuna would probably have had this issue as the vets were aging fast. Maybe we could’ve had another run, but the end of the era was upon us. And it was the era that brought us out of the wasteland of the 70s, and our first SBs. You’ll never follow that. I recall Simms saying he felt bad for RH because he worked really hard. I think GY put a lot of stock in RH being a smart guy, but coaches need to be more than academically smart, they have to relate,teach, motivate, hold accountable, etc.

McAdoo is another story. He followed a legend, but one that never had the sustained success as Tuna. And he took over an already mediocre team, got an initial bounce from improved D, then fell off a cliff with the help of bad injuries.The lack of an OL and and NYG’s inability to fix it hamstrung any offense. McDLT was probably a better football coach, but a douche who seemed to be putting on an act of being a HC rather than being just a normal guy. In fairness, when you win your quirkiness is charming, when you lose it’s embarrassing...
They remind me of each other  
steve in ky : 5/21/2018 11:12 am : link
To me they both came across as believing they were the smartest guys in the room types who failed miserably at connecting with their players.
In respect to Handley, I wrote this years ago on a preview  
Matt in SGS : 5/21/2018 11:15 am : link
I did for the 1991 Giants vs. Oilers game that I posted on BBI moons ago (btw, I have 2 new games ready to post once OTAs are over).

Basically, I listed 8 reasons why it wasn't all Handley's fault that he sucked

Quote:
Let's be clear, Handley was not a good Head Coach. But the Giants were the ones who put him there. Without further ado, the top 8 reasons the Ray Handley era was not all his fault:

1- Handley actually was ready to quit coaching after the 1990 Super Bowl. At age 46, Handley was preparing to enter George Washington Law School. It was Bill Parcells (along with George Young's blessing) who talked Handley out leaving the coaching ranks. Parcells offered Handley a promotion from offensive backfield coach to offensive coordinator. In doing so, Parcells moved the current OC, Ron Erhardt to a new Assistant Head Coach position, where he was going to have greater oversight in the overall team, and help Parcells.

2- George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick. He didn't feel that he was ready to be a head coach in the NFL, so never stood in his way to keep him around when teams came calling for him after the victory over the Bills. He was more concerned with Handley going to Law School than Belichick going to the Browns.

3- Bill Parcells really pushed for Handley. Parcells coached with Handley back in 1968 at West Point. And in Parcells' second season as Giants Head Coach in 1984, he brought Handley on to his staff as an offensive assistant. In several interviews over the years, Parcells would refer to Handley as a "computer on his staff". He was noting Handley's attention to detail, football x's and o's intelligence, breaking down situations. Unfortunately, the Parcells' Giants were built in his own image. The team responded to Parcells' mindgames. Parcells was a cult of personality in leading the Giants. Handley was not ever going to be that same charismatic guy and Parcells was a tough act to follow. In fact, a few times, Handley would tell the press that it wasn't the coach's job to motivate players, they should do it themselves as professionals. So Parcells' own high opinion of Handley, actually would set him up to fail.

4- Media saavy: This one really pointed to an issue which the Giants and Parcells should have realized that Handley was just not ready for the big stage and media glare. Now, you don't need to be a media darling to be a successful coach. Belichick proved that in New England. Coughlin isn't Parcells when it comes to working with the media, but he slips in his barbs and little jokes here and there. Generally speaking, a coach needs to understand how to handle the press and understand how they function. Handley never got that. Look no further than his infamous exchange with Russ Salzberg in December 1991, when he was asked a question about the QB situation (Simms starting, Hoss out with injury) and he refused to answer the question, mocked a sigh/pout at Salzberg, and then stormed off. That is blood in the water. Even years later, in 2007 when he was reached for comments on the Giants in the Super Bowl, he told Newsday reporter Jim Baumbach: "No, I'm not the least bit interested. Thank you very much." And hung up. This is who he was, the Giants had him in the family for 7 years, he wasn't ready for NY (and likely would never be), and the Giants should have known or somehow mitigated this.

5- Handley's only stint as Head Coach was in 1977 at Reed High School in Sparks, Nevada. He had just had his responsibilities increased to Offensive Coordinator. And then after the draft, when Parcells stepped down, he was handed the Head Coach spot of the Giants. However, Handley decided to keep his Offensive Coordinator title. That was simply too much to ask of him. The safer route should have been to name Ron Erhardt the head coach, as he had previous experience in New England with the Patriots (including a 9 and 10 win season in his time). Now, Handley compounded that mistake on his own, by actually demoting Erhardt from his Assistant Head Coach position and had him doing, essentially offensive quality control tasks breaking down film on opponents. Young and Mara should have stepped in here, make Erhardt the head coach, and let Handley grow into the position, if they felt that strongly about him. Erhardt was 60 years old, he wasn't going to be the long term answer, which is what they had hoped for in Handley. Make Erhardt the coach and then set up a succession plan to bring Handley on in a year or two. As it would turn out, in 1992, Handley promoted Jim Fassel from QB coach to Offensive Coordinator to rectify that mistake, but it was too late.

6- The Giants roster was getting old. Look at the ages of several of the key members: Simms (37 in his 12th year), LT (32 in his 10th year), OJ Anderson (34 in his 12th year), Bart Oates (33), Everson Walls (32), Leonard Marshall (30), Perry Williams (30), Hostetler (30), Banks/Reasons (29). Of the young core players, the Giants only really had Rodney Hampton and Brian Williams ready to join the lineup right away and make an impact. So the team was headed towards a downswing/ transition, and that is as much on George Young as anyone.

7- The Giants didn't do Handley any favors on the defensive side of the ball. As noted above, the defense was getting up there in age. Losing 2 top defensive minds in one off season in both Parcells and Belichick was an enormous blow. With Handley stretched so thin keeping his OC title, he was really reliant on his defensive staff to keep things going. The defensive coordinator job fell to an in house replacement, as Al Groh was promoted from linebacker coach to DC. In the past, when Parcells was asked about defensive rankings, he would always say that the most important stat he cares about is points allowed. In 1989, the Giants allowed 252 points (#2 in NFL) and were 5th in yards allowed. In 1990, the Giants allowed 211 points (#1 in the NFL) and were 2nd in yards allowed. Under Al Groh: 297 points (#12 in NFL) and 7th in yards allowed. Groh was out after his only season, and rejoined Belichick in Cleveland. The Giants decided to go for a more veteran coach and decided on former Chiefs, Patriots, and Steelers DC Rod Rust, who coached on the Stanford staff when Handley was a running back there. All you have to say to any Giants fan who recalls the era is "Read and React" and they will instantly get nauseous and angry simultaneously. Rust was a horrible fit in 1992 and the stats showed it: 367 points (#26 in the NFL) and 18th in yards allowed. Bottom line, Handley didn't get much help at all.

8- He actually made a sound decision on Simms v. Hostetler for the starting QB job. This whole thing was also a perfect storm. QB controversies can split teams and create a media frenzy. Add in all the issues listed above and then throw in a popular but aging QB who won a Super Bowl MVP and was coming off an injury (Simms), and the younger, more mobile QB in Hostetler, who just finished a run that resulted in a Super Bowl win. As a starter, Hoss was 4-0 in the regular season (and he also had wins when he played the balance of the game after an injury to Simms in 1989 vs the Vikings and 1990 vs. the Cardinals) and was 3-0 in the post season. Hostetler was also in the Giants system for 6 years and was 30 entering 1991. If you are Handley, looking to make your mark as the head coach for a long time in NY, do you go with a 37 year old Super Bowl winning QB coming off an injury, or a 30 year old Super Bowl winning QB, who also happened to have the added dimension of being able to move and run? He chose Hostetler, and Hoss went 6-5 as a starter before going down with broken bones in his back in Tampa and Simms took over the rest of the way. In 1992, he reversed his decision and named Simms the starter. The Giants decided it was time to move on from the QB controversy and bring in youth, and actually carried 4 QBs in 1992 (Simms, Hostetler, Dave Brown, Kent Graham). Handley was too inexperienced to deal with this QB problem. He should have named one a starter and the other should have been traded. Reeves put his foot down immediately in 1993, chosing Simms (knowing that Brown or Graham would be the replacement) and moved Hoss on to Oakland.




If you want to read that old review, you can see it at the link.
http://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2012/07/1991-giants-v-oilers.html - ( New Window )
One other fun fact  
Matt in SGS : 5/21/2018 11:16 am : link
their last win as an NFL head coach came vs. the KC Chiefs at home. Handley blew them out in 1992 in the last home game, and McAdoo won that awful OT game in November.
Ford Pinto vs. Pontiac Aztec  
Racer : 5/21/2018 11:21 am : link
Who really gives a crap about reading that article?
It's funny around here...  
bw in dc : 5/21/2018 11:27 am : link
Eli is 11-5 under McAdoo in that first year, plus some decent work with McAdoo when McAdoo was the OC.

Yet, the Eli gets a pass around here for last year, by the Eli Faithful, because of all the injuries. And there is some merit there.

So why is McAdoo not given the same leeway? Why doesn't he some benefit of the doubt for the injuries? It's not like he caused the injuries...

Look, I never liked McAdoo. But to give Eli a mulligan and not McAdoo seems a bit disingenuous for the EFC...
RE: It's funny around here...  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 11:30 am : link
In comment 13969861 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Eli is 11-5 under McAdoo in that first year, plus some decent work with McAdoo when McAdoo was the OC.

Yet, the Eli gets a pass around here for last year, by the Eli Faithful, because of all the injuries. And there is some merit there.

So why is McAdoo not given the same leeway? Why doesn't he some benefit of the doubt for the injuries? It's not like he caused the injuries...

Look, I never liked McAdoo. But to give Eli a mulligan and not McAdoo seems a bit disingenuous for the EFC...


Did Eli lie to the owner? Your schtick is really old.
Great work Matt.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 11:36 am : link
Thanks
RE: RE: It's funny around here...  
bw in dc : 5/21/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 13969867 dep026 said:
Quote:

Did Eli lie to the owner? Your schtick is really old.


Why do you believe Mara? Because he's the owner?
Handley losing Belicheck  
mikeinbloomfield : 5/21/2018 11:39 am : link
plus the team getting old did him in. Anyone can be a decent HC when the other team can't score. He lost the media as soon as he starting losing, which only hastened his demise. Coming from the RB coach, to Offensive coordinator, to HC so quickly didn't help.

McAdoo was never what he was supposed to be, which was an offensive guru. Even during the 11-5 season (thanks to the defense), commentators were pointing out deficiencies in his blocking schemes. He did some things as far as training that seemed to work. His Xs and Os just didn't work on the side of the ball he was supposed to be good at.
RE: RE: RE: It's funny around here...  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 13969886 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13969867 dep026 said:


Quote:



Did Eli lie to the owner? Your schtick is really old.



Why do you believe Mara? Because he's the owner?


WTF does this even mean? You do know the planning of benching Eli was told differently to Mara then Eli? And Mara wasnt even the one who acknowledges this.
RE: RE: RE: It's funny around here...  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 13969886 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13969867 dep026 said:


Quote:



Did Eli lie to the owner? Your schtick is really old.



Why do you believe Mara? Because he's the owner?


There was a time you were an excellent poster. Am I misremembering? 😎
McAdoo Too Stubborn  
Samiam : 5/21/2018 11:43 am : link
What I don’t get with McAdoo is that he had the makings of a decent OL at the start of the year. Flowers-Jerry-Richburg or Jones-Fluker-Pugh. That line could have been ok plus you could have given Flowers help on the left side. Bobby Hart was about as bad as any OL I’ve ever seen& it took awhile to get him to the bench. What I don’t understand is wasn’t it evident in practice that Hart couldn’t pass block at all and he was going against a decent pass rusher in practice. Why did it take so long for the coaches to get the right guys in the right positions (before they got hurt)?
Worst Winning % of All-time? - Arnsparger  
Rong5611 : 5/21/2018 11:47 am : link
Bill Arnsparger has the worst winning % of all time among Giants coaches, .200. Won 7, lost 28.

RH and BM seem more awful as they took talented rosters and nosedived. Arnsparger had a poor roster, but couldn't build a stronger team.


RE: RE: RE: RE: It's funny around here...  
bw in dc : 5/21/2018 11:47 am : link
In comment 13969889 dep026 said:
Quote:

WTF does this even mean? You do know the planning of benching Eli was told differently to Mara then Eli? And Mara wasnt even the one who acknowledges this.


Frankly, I've never known who to believe in that debacle. I can easily see that situation just being the last straw in a season - a season with SB aspirations - gone sideways; and McAdoo quickly becoming the easy fall guy.

If you watched Mara in those post firing press conferences he was all over the place with his explanations. It was like watching Nixon talking about Watergate in '73.
Matt in SGS, Point 3 is VERY interesting. Because in Parcells book  
Victor in CT : 5/21/2018 11:48 am : link
he pins the entire Handley hire on GY. He claims that he asked GY if he wanted him to tell TC or BB to stay, GY said no. And that GY wanted an "intellectual" like himself and was enamored with Handley.
RE: Worst Winning % of All-time? - Arnsparger  
Big Blue '56 : 5/21/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13969901 Rong5611 said:
Quote:
Bill Arnsparger has the worst winning % of all time among Giants coaches, .200. Won 7, lost 28.

RH and BM seem more awful as they took talented rosters and nosedived. Arnsparger had a poor roster, but couldn't build a stronger team.



I thought of Arnsparger the defensive guru we hired away from the Dolphins, but the squads in the ‘70s were brutal. He never stood a chance with that personnel imo
RE: Matt in SGS, Point 3 is VERY interesting. Because in Parcells book  
bw in dc : 5/21/2018 11:52 am : link
In comment 13969906 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
he pins the entire Handley hire on GY. He claims that he asked GY if he wanted him to tell TC or BB to stay, GY said no. And that GY wanted an "intellectual" like himself and was enamored with Handley.


FWIW - Belichick was gone two days after the SB in '91 when he was immediately hired by Cleveland. And Parcells didn't make it announcement about his heart condition until May.

RE: RE: Worst Winning % of All-time? - Arnsparger  
Rong5611 : 5/21/2018 11:54 am : link
They were poor teams, but he was expected to turn it around. He'd didn't. What hurt him most was that there was no George Young-type at the time as GM. The Mara's were running everything. We all know that turned out.


In comment 13969911 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969901 Rong5611 said:


Quote:


Bill Arnsparger has the worst winning % of all time among Giants coaches, .200. Won 7, lost 28.

RH and BM seem more awful as they took talented rosters and nosedived. Arnsparger had a poor roster, but couldn't build a stronger team.





I thought of Arnsparger the defensive guru we hired away from the Dolphins, but the squads in the ‘70s were brutal. He never stood a chance with that personnel imo
RE: Handley is on George Young  
JOrthman : 5/21/2018 11:58 am : link
In comment 13969683 joeinpa said:
Quote:
He never even considered Belichick because of his personality.

To the O P s point, Handley was prob worse than MacAdoo simple because he ruined a better team.

MacAdoo was stubborn, but he got little help from Reese.


I don't think you can say that at all. His first year Reese and the Giants spent 200 million on the defense. If he doesn't get that infusion into the D, they never go to the playoffs that year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It's funny around here...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/21/2018 11:59 am : link
In comment 13969903 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13969889 dep026 said:


Quote:



WTF does this even mean? You do know the planning of benching Eli was told differently to Mara then Eli? And Mara wasnt even the one who acknowledges this.



Frankly, I've never known who to believe in that debacle. I can easily see that situation just being the last straw in a season - a season with SB aspirations - gone sideways; and McAdoo quickly becoming the easy fall guy.

If you watched Mara in those post firing press conferences he was all over the place with his explanations. It was like watching Nixon talking about Watergate in '73.


i tend to agree with the above view...
RE: It's funny around here...  
steve in ky : 5/21/2018 11:59 am : link
In comment 13969861 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Eli is 11-5 under McAdoo in that first year, plus some decent work with McAdoo when McAdoo was the OC.

Yet, the Eli gets a pass around here for last year, by the Eli Faithful, because of all the injuries. And there is some merit there.

So why is McAdoo not given the same leeway? Why doesn't he some benefit of the doubt for the injuries? It's not like he caused the injuries...

Look, I never liked McAdoo. But to give Eli a mulligan and not McAdoo seems a bit disingenuous for the EFC...


I know you're smart enough to know how badly McAdoo did last season.

I also know you're smart enough to understand how Eli, having brought two championships to this organization, and done a great job as the face of the organization for more than a decade would earn himself a "mulligan", while a second year coach who lost the team, embarrassed the organization, and drew the owner into being personally involved in a historically bad public relations nightmare didn't.

You have to be posting something like this just to push peoples buttons or get a reaction out of them because you assuredly understand the "why".
Both are terrible  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/21/2018 12:01 pm : link
Basically chose Handley over Bellicheat lmfao. Kind of sort of understandable compared to throwing your 2 time SB winning coach under the bus for McADoo.
You already have made up your mind  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 12:03 pm : link
on who you want to believe. You have chastised Eli and Mara enough and now are trying to somewhat defend McAdoo.

McAdoo was getting fired no matter the outcome of the season prior to Raiders week. He knew that, took a swipe at the organization, lied to the owner. All it did was push up the firing a few weeks.
RE: BB56, Please, My Eyes!  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/21/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13969639 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Mc*d** !

Seriously, H*ndl*y really screwed up, as you pointed out. Did H*ndl*y bring in R*d R*st as the DC, or what that a George Young decision. With 20/20 hindsight, R*d R*st changed the defense developed by Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick; that's how bad the H*ndl*y years were.

Given H*ndl*y was hired in May 1991 (right?), why didn't he promote one of the Giants position coaches? Hadn't Parcells already named Bill Belichick's replacedment at DC? Was Al Groh still with the team?


Lulz meanwhile Bellicheat was amassing a staff of Newsome, Staban, Lombardi, Pioli, Shwartz, Tannebaum, Dimitroff, Mangini.

Have to say f*** f**** f**** GY on this.
.  
bLiTz 2k : 5/21/2018 1:16 pm : link
ðŸ”a💩
RE: RE: It's funny around here...  
bw in dc : 5/21/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13969934 steve in ky said:
Quote:


I know you're smart enough to know how badly McAdoo did last season.

I also know you're smart enough to understand how Eli, having brought two championships to this organization, and done a great job as the face of the organization for more than a decade would earn himself a "mulligan", while a second year coach who lost the team, embarrassed the organization, and drew the owner into being personally involved in a historically bad public relations nightmare didn't.

You have to be posting something like this just to push peoples buttons or get a reaction out of them because you assuredly understand the "why".


Hey Steve. I hear you. But I'm really not trying to be a fire starter here...

I just started thinking seriously about this from McAdoo's perspective. And that was mainly because he's been such an easy target in this.

Here is a guy - again, I think it was the wrong hire - who had never been an HC before; and gets the job in the biggest spotlight of NY. He looks odd and sounds odd. It's sort of immaterial to me, but he becomes the brunt of a lot of jokes, etc about his looks, personality, etc.

But then he then has this banner first year. Manning looks revitalized. McAdoo looks like the right hire as the successor to Coughlin.

Year two then rolls around and there are these very high expectations from the local and national media. McAdoo is now under pressure for even bigger things. Fine, right? Welcome to NY.

After an 0-2 start, we lose three really tough games - Philly on a 61 yd FG, a last second game winning FG in Tampa, and Rivers rallies the Chargers late to beat the Giants. And then there is this injury tsunami that overlaps all of this that essentially ends the season before Halloween. It's just the most unexpected start.

So McAdoo is left trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh-t - right? We see a mutiny going on with some players, which isn't a surprise with these expectations, and we see the continued residual effects of Reese's poor drafting creeping back in.

Help me understand, and I'm being serious here, what the hell did we expect McAdoo to do? He's never been a HC before, and this was his first time experiencing failure as the leader. Sometimes you get these seasons where everything implodes (vs. expectations) and there is no safety net to catch you. Did Jints Central really expect him to have all joy and glory from the get-go?
RE: You already have made up your mind  
Jimmy Googs : 5/21/2018 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13969943 dep026 said:
Quote:
on who you want to believe. You have chastised Eli and Mara enough and now are trying to somewhat defend McAdoo.

McAdoo was getting fired no matter the outcome of the season prior to Raiders week. He knew that, took a swipe at the organization, lied to the owner. All it did was push up the firing a few weeks.


What are the facts of those events as you seem to know them. I actually never think I have heard how this went down specifically.

If u know...
RE: RE: You already have made up your mind  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13970129 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13969943 dep026 said:


Quote:


on who you want to believe. You have chastised Eli and Mara enough and now are trying to somewhat defend McAdoo.

McAdoo was getting fired no matter the outcome of the season prior to Raiders week. He knew that, took a swipe at the organization, lied to the owner. All it did was push up the firing a few weeks.



What are the facts of those events as you seem to know them. I actually never think I have heard how this went down specifically.

If u know...


From a few sources from what I heard.

1. Reese and McAdoo basically laid out a plan to play younger guys to Mara. The situation as it was told to Mara was that when games got out of hand, whenever the time was, Eli would be pulled and the younger guys (probably Webb) would get game action. Mara agreed.
2. McAdoo approached Eli and told him he was getting a half no matter what.
3. When Mara heard of this, well we all know what happened. Shit hit the fan. Mara was so awkward trying to save face. But the word within the organization that what management told Mara was not the same thing told to Eli.

Both fired that Monday.
Shit is  
greek13 : 5/21/2018 1:49 pm : link
Shit
Different model
I really appreciate what Matt wrote  
WideRight : 5/21/2018 1:57 pm : link
and that is why I think McAdoo ws worse.

He actively destructed the team. He did inherent talent and got an infusion of defense that would have made anybody look better than TC.

But on offense he completely mismanaged his talent. The theory that Eli had to get above 65% completion to return to success was flat out wrong, and then when his falacy was revealed he insinuated it was talent rather than coaching and gameplanning. Coaches be judged by what they get out of their players, and his system did not fit his players well; he should have changed it rather than suggesting that he needed "better" players.

In addition, it appears he wasn't honest with upper management regarding Eli's benching. I bet some here know the details better than I, but thats unacceptable and a hallmark of failure. He didn't foresee any of that. What a mess
This is like a remake of  
Jimmy Googs : 5/21/2018 2:09 pm : link
Dumb vs Dumber...
RE: RE: Players hated him  
The 12th Man : 5/21/2018 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13969657 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13969641 Reale01 said:


Quote:


I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.


They hated Han****. They had no respect for a guy who got caught but twice with another giving another guy head in the same Garden State Parkway rest area. He was a joke. Never heard from again after he was fired. He was by far the worst.


From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly
RE: RE: RE: You already have made up your mind  
bw in dc : 5/21/2018 10:15 pm : link
In comment 13970137 dep026 said:
Quote:

From a few sources from what I heard.

1. Reese and McAdoo basically laid out a plan to play younger guys to Mara. The situation as it was told to Mara was that when games got out of hand, whenever the time was, Eli would be pulled and the younger guys (probably Webb) would get game action. Mara agreed.
2. McAdoo approached Eli and told him he was getting a half no matter what.
3. When Mara heard of this, well we all know what happened. Shit hit the fan. Mara was so awkward trying to save face. But the word within the organization that what management told Mara was not the same thing told to Eli.

Both fired that Monday.


Really? So Mara was lying his ass off at the press conference, announcing the firing, when he said "the Eli Manning benching decision had no effect whatsoever"on his decision to fire McAdoo. He added "2-10 is 2-10."

Sorry, but I call total bullsh-t on your sources. McAdoo and Reese got the axe not for mishandling the Eli situation. They got axed for a season gone awry and, more importantly, the enormous blow back he got when from the media and the fans when Eli was benched. Mara knew exactly what was going on with the plan. There were no surprises.

One thing John learned from Papa Welli is that once the fans start to revolt then the dam has broken. And that's what occurred here.



I’d rather have handley  
djm : 5/21/2018 10:18 pm : link
..
RE: RE: RE: RE: You already have made up your mind  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 10:24 pm : link
In comment 13970770 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13970137 dep026 said:


Quote:



From a few sources from what I heard.

1. Reese and McAdoo basically laid out a plan to play younger guys to Mara. The situation as it was told to Mara was that when games got out of hand, whenever the time was, Eli would be pulled and the younger guys (probably Webb) would get game action. Mara agreed.
2. McAdoo approached Eli and told him he was getting a half no matter what.
3. When Mara heard of this, well we all know what happened. Shit hit the fan. Mara was so awkward trying to save face. But the word within the organization that what management told Mara was not the same thing told to Eli.

Both fired that Monday.



Really? So Mara was lying his ass off at the press conference, announcing the firing, when he said "the Eli Manning benching decision had no effect whatsoever"on his decision to fire McAdoo. He added "2-10 is 2-10."

Sorry, but I call total bullsh-t on your sources. McAdoo and Reese got the axe not for mishandling the Eli situation. They got axed for a season gone awry and, more importantly, the enormous blow back he got when from the media and the fans when Eli was benched. Mara knew exactly what was going on with the plan. There were no surprises.

One thing John learned from Papa Welli is that once the fans start to revolt then the dam has broken. And that's what occurred here.




Ok. But this has been reported by multiple people here. You choose not to believe it because it goes against your agenda as well. So it is what it is.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You already have made up your mind  
bw in dc : 5/21/2018 10:44 pm : link
In comment 13970780 dep026 said:
Quote:

Ok. But this has been reported by multiple people here. You choose not to believe it because it goes against your agenda as well. So it is what it is.


So, again, Mara was or wasn't lying at the press conference?

He was asked a direct question about the Eli question and he gave the answer I quoted above. Not my words, his.

You really think Reese and McAdoo pulled this coup/mutiny thinking it wouldn't have major repercussions?

These NFL professionals thought it was so important to try to win a game - one f-ckin game in a season already lost - that it was worth putting their careers at risk to piss in their owner's face?

Seriously, does that remotely make any sense to you?


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You already have made up your mind  
dep026 : 5/21/2018 10:56 pm : link
In comment 13970794 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13970780 dep026 said:


Quote:



Ok. But this has been reported by multiple people here. You choose not to believe it because it goes against your agenda as well. So it is what it is.



So, again, Mara was or wasn't lying at the press conference?

He was asked a direct question about the Eli question and he gave the answer I quoted above. Not my words, his.

You really think Reese and McAdoo pulled this coup/mutiny thinking it wouldn't have major repercussions?

These NFL professionals thought it was so important to try to win a game - one f-ckin game in a season already lost - that it was worth putting their careers at risk to piss in their owner's face?

Seriously, does that remotely make any sense to you?



I have been told the same thing by multiple people associated with the team. So yes I do. If you choose not to believe it, you dont have too.

But the aftermath suggests that the sources are more valid than you choose to believe.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You already have made up your mind  
bw in dc : 5/21/2018 11:39 pm : link
In comment 13970808 dep026 said:
Quote:

But the aftermath suggests that the sources are more valid than you choose to believe.


I don't believe them because it's absurd.

In essence, all parties met - Mara, Reese, McAdoo - and agreed on a plan contingent on subbing out Eli only if there was a blowout.

But then in a complete act of defiance, Reese and McAdoo met separately, decided that the better plan was to don career suicide vests, run down the halls at Jints Central yelling 'Praise to Geno', and then blow up their careers.

That's your position via your sources??

Jerry Reese, an employee at Jints Central since 1994, felt this was how he wanted to end his 23 year career?

And forty year McAdoo felt this was the best way to end his very first head coaching gig in the NFL?

Do you know what this is? This is your sources asking you to be dumb and gullible at the same time.
I think if we are going to type out  
short lease : 5/22/2018 12:03 am : link

Mcadoo's full name, Handley should have the same respect at this point. At one time I was in full agreement that his name should never be mentioned out loud or ... in text on this site. But, (IMO) Mcadoo was the Giant's worst HC since the mid 70's - when they were all fired the next day.

: )
As a Green Bay Packer Once Said:  
OntheRoad : 5/22/2018 3:17 am : link
The new coach is the kind of guy you'd cut your arm off for. Lombardi was the kind who'd cut it off for you."
Lol  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 7:31 am : link
You can believe whatever you want. I trust those people a lot more than I trust you since they have been accurate on more things.

Maybe, just maybe, you’re wrong.
I ask again....  
Jimmy Googs : 5/22/2018 8:42 am : link
does anyone know a factual understanding, or at least reasonable presumption, of the events that took place regarding the Eli benching?

It is how..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/22/2018 8:53 am : link
people handle failure that often defines their character or competence.

Quote:
Help me understand, and I'm being serious here, what the hell did we expect McAdoo to do? He's never been a HC before, and this was his first time experiencing failure as the leader.


First off, I'd have expected Mac not to come in after a successful first year looking like Gordon Gecko and seemingly with an arrogance that probably set some of the players off from the get-go last year.

Then, I wouldn't have had press conferences where I'm essentially giving the OL a free pass and even praising their play while making comments that the QB has to play better.

Mac's biggest fault is that he couldn't read a room. Didn't know how to handle the questions without looking like he was in over his head. Didn't know how to handle player conflict.

He seemingly didn't have a contingency plan for if a season goes South. If he truly wanted to get a feel for what he had with the team and to succession plan for Eli - he could've started prepping Webb to play when the season was 0-5. He could've made Webb the backup and got him enough reps so he could bench Eli for a legitimate reason.

Regardless of what the conspiracy theories are surrounding the decision to bench Eli, one point is really undebateable. Mac failed to properly prepare for the scenario by not grooming webb and by making Geno the punchline to the whole fiasco.
lol  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 8:55 am : link
Its only been said 1,000 times by many people on this board.

Maybe 1,001 will do the trick!

Remember  
dep026 : 5/22/2018 8:57 am : link
it would have been really simple for Mara to tell McAdoo to re-insert Eli after the so called "backlash" but McAdoo and Reese were fired for a reason.

If you choose not to believe, then thats ok too.
RE: It is how..  
bw in dc : 5/22/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13970926 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Mac's biggest fault is that he couldn't read a room. Didn't know how to handle the questions without looking like he was in over his head. Didn't know how to handle player conflict.

He seemingly didn't have a contingency plan for if a season goes South. If he truly wanted to get a feel for what he had with the team and to succession plan for Eli - he could've started prepping Webb to play when the season was 0-5. He could've made Webb the backup and got him enough reps so he could bench Eli for a legitimate reason.

Regardless of what the conspiracy theories are surrounding the decision to bench Eli, one point is really undebateable. Mac failed to properly prepare for the scenario by not grooming webb and by making Geno the punchline to the whole fiasco.


You and I basically agree on nothing - typically.

But I totally agree on your commentary here - McAdoo was negligent in not getting Webb ready for play once it was abundantly clear the season was flat-lined.
Gordon Gekko!!! Hah!  
Victor in CT : 5/22/2018 10:36 am : link
good one Fats!
RE: Lol  
bw in dc : 5/22/2018 10:39 am : link
In comment 13970872 dep026 said:
Quote:
You can believe whatever you want. I trust those people a lot more than I trust you since they have been accurate on more things.

Maybe, just maybe, you’re wrong.


Fair enough.

Time  
oldog : 5/23/2018 10:47 am : link
to look forward, not back.
Its May  
Jimmy Googs : 5/23/2018 10:50 am : link
plenty of time to look back...
Organizations fail....not individuals.  
AnnapolisMike : 5/23/2018 11:16 am : link
With Handley and McAdoo....the organization put them in a position to fail. You don't get to a level both these guys attained by being foolish or stupid. In different situations they might have been successful. Handley's downfall was that he was following Parcells, with an aging team and a QB controversy. I think McAdoo was a little too confident after what was a successful first year. When the team started poorly and then the injuries hit...he just could not salvage what was a team devoid of depth and talent on the offensive side of the ball.

If the 2018 Giants are successful..it will because they stayed healthy. If the injury bug bites again...4-5 wins might be the ceiling.
RE: One other fun fact  
short lease : 5/28/2018 3:39 am : link
In comment 13969834 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
their last win as an NFL head coach came vs. the KC Chiefs at home. Handley blew them out in 1992 in the last home game, and McAdoo won that awful OT game in November.



All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -


"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."


I don't think GY did but, it would have been nice if he lived long enough to see BB's success. Letting him go is just as bad as letting Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry go for Allie Sherman? sheez ...
RE: One other fun fact  
short lease : 5/28/2018 3:42 am : link
In comment 13969834 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
their last win as an NFL head coach came vs. the KC Chiefs at home. Handley blew them out in 1992 in the last home game, and McAdoo won that awful OT game in November.



All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -


"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."


I don't think GY did but, it would have been nice if he lived long enough to see BB's success. Letting him go is just as bad as letting Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry go for Allie Sherman? sheez ...
RE: One other fun fact  
short lease : 5/28/2018 3:43 am : link
In comment 13969834 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
their last win as an NFL head coach came vs. the KC Chiefs at home. Handley blew them out in 1992 in the last home game, and McAdoo won that awful OT game in November.



All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -


"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."
RE: One other fun fact  
short lease : 5/28/2018 3:36 am : link
In comment 13969834 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
their last win as an NFL head coach came vs. the KC Chiefs at home. Handley blew them out in 1992 in the last home game, and McAdoo won that awful OT game in November.



All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -


"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."
RE: One other fun fact  
short lease : 5/28/2018 3:47 am : link
In comment 13969834 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
their last win as an NFL head coach came vs. the KC Chiefs at home. Handley blew them out in 1992 in the last home game, and McAdoo won that awful OT game in November.



All fun facts Matt (and nice write-up) ... but, this is the funnest -


"George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick."
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