There have been allusions to the opinion that McAdoo was “the worst Giants’ HC ever, even worse than H***ly.”
McAdoo was dreadful in so many ways and he ranks way up (or down, depending on perspective) there, but RH was indeed the worst, imo
H***ly, to me was the absolute pits. For those who do not recall or were not born yet, RH took a SB champion, albeit an aging one, with all the tools to make another run (or two) and drove them into the ground. His personnel decisons were dreadful, including going with Hoss (whom I will forever be grateful to) over Simms who was healthy and recovered from his season-ending foot injury the year before. He did, after all, lead us to our 10-0 start that ‘90 SB season.
For those of you who lived through the RH era, any input as to how he screwed the pooch of a SB winning team could be rather helpful to those who did not experience that time period. I mentioned the obvious one, Simms, I’m sure you have more unpleasant memories to discuss here.
And go. :)
I’m trying, but it’s very painful
Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.
Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.
Funny about the media stuff, in that given 20-20 they should have gone with Belichick, but he was even worse with the media and obviously not a favorite HC candidate of Gy’s..
Worse than scrapping the Parcells/Belichick defense for the Rod Rust "read and react"? I don't think so.
They both equally sucked in their own way. I think Handley was certainly more intelligent, but definitely not HC material. But George Young thought he would be great for some reason. He actually came off as pretty sharp in "No Medals for Trying".
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and running a naked backfield with Hostetler. It was for this reason that he benched Simms and played Hostetler. But this formation never, ever worked. Yet Handley continued to run it. It was truly bizarre.
Worse than scrapping the Parcells/Belichick defense for the Rod Rust "read and react"? I don't think so.
They both equally sucked in their own way. I think Handley was certainly more intelligent, but definitely not HC material. But George Young thought he would be great for some reason. He actually came off as pretty sharp in "No Medals for Trying".
I’ve mentioned this previously, but I recall after the RH hiring, Al Michaels being interviewed and he stated that RH was brilliant and he was going to be a Great HC.
Good lord, I'd rather dedicate a holiday to Handley than have that bloody conversation one more time.
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McAdoo lost the team.
Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.
Funny about the media stuff, in that given 20-20 they should have gone with Belichick, but he was even worse with the media and obviously not a favorite HC candidate of Gy’s..
I know GY probably would not have gone with Belichick, but the Tuna made sure that he didn't have the opportunity to at least consider it.
His second year was more of the same, only intensified.
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In comment 13969520 Ivan15 said:
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McAdoo lost the team.
Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.
Funny about the media stuff, in that given 20-20 they should have gone with Belichick, but he was even worse with the media and obviously not a favorite HC candidate of Gy’s..
I know GY probably would not have gone with Belichick, but the Tuna made sure that he didn't have the opportunity to at least consider it.
STOP BLAMING PARCELLS! Geroge Young would NEVER have hired BB as HC and said so repeatedly. GY wanted Handley.
His second year was more of the same, only intensified.
Interesting vcomment, since he was a Mathmetician.
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In comment 13969520 Ivan15 said:
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McAdoo lost the team.
Both were mistakes made by management. Handley was pushed into the deep end of the pool and didn’t know how to swim. McAdoo jumped into the deep end and expected that the pool could be drained before he drowned.
Funny about the media stuff, in that given 20-20 they should have gone with Belichick, but he was even worse with the media and obviously not a favorite HC candidate of Gy’s..
I know GY probably would not have gone with Belichick, but the Tuna made sure that he didn't have the opportunity to at least consider it.
Parcells quitting in May really screwed the team bad. Had he quit right after the Super Bowl, the Giants probably bring in someone else for HC. But it wouldn't have been Belichick.
Seriously, H*ndl*y really screwed up, as you pointed out. Did H*ndl*y bring in R*d R*st as the DC, or what that a George Young decision. With 20/20 hindsight, R*d R*st changed the defense developed by Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick; that's how bad the H*ndl*y years were.
Given H*ndl*y was hired in May 1991 (right?), why didn't he promote one of the Giants position coaches? Hadn't Parcells already named Bill Belichick's replacedment at DC? Was Al Groh still with the team?
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exorcise the demons and the truth shall set you free. HANDLEY.
I’m trying, but it’s very painful
From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly
+1
To the O P s point, Handley was prob worse than MacAdoo simple because he ruined a better team.
MacAdoo was stubborn, but he got little help from Reese.
Slight edge to Handjob, horrendous
Slight edge to Handjob, horrendous
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I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.
From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly
Yeah, but if you recall, there was alot of "Ray treats us like men", crap the first year, that they were tired of BP busting their balls. I remember Leonard Marshall being one of them saying that. And Hostetler the Whiner certainly loved him. But he actually though he was better than Simms and that Parcells was keeping him down. Ditto Todd Blackledge and Paterno.
"Coach Mac, I am your father".
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In comment 13969641 Reale01 said:
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I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.
From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly
Yeah, but if you recall, there was alot of "Ray treats us like men", crap the first year, that they were tired of BP busting their balls. I remember Leonard Marshall being one of them saying that. And Hostetler the Whiner certainly loved him. But he actually though he was better than Simms and that Parcells was keeping him down. Ditto Todd Blackledge and Paterno.
I believe I heard that too when he was hired and shortly thereafter. It was as the actual season progressed and the nature of how things began to spin out of control that the Vets became disenchanted. By season 2 it was a complete mess iirc
Seriously, H*ndl*y really screwed up, as you pointed out. Did H*ndl*y bring in R*d R*st as the DC, or what that a George Young decision. With 20/20 hindsight, R*d R*st changed the defense developed by Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick; that's how bad the H*ndl*y years were.
Given H*ndl*y was hired in May 1991 (right?), why didn't he promote one of the Giants position coaches? Hadn't Parcells already named Bill Belichick's replacedment at DC? Was Al Groh still with the team?
Al Groh was DC in 1991. Rust was hired in 1992 after Groh left/was pushed out.
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In comment 13969657 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 13969641 Reale01 said:
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I was at a game in AZ and the Giants were losingto a bad Cardinal team. There were a lot of Giant fans chanting Ray must go behind the Giant bench. Erik Howard turned around towards the fans and gave two thumbs up.
From all the reporting I recall, The Vets were not happy with RH and that is probably putting it mildly
Yeah, but if you recall, there was alot of "Ray treats us like men", crap the first year, that they were tired of BP busting their balls. I remember Leonard Marshall being one of them saying that. And Hostetler the Whiner certainly loved him. But he actually though he was better than Simms and that Parcells was keeping him down. Ditto Todd Blackledge and Paterno.
I believe I heard that too when he was hired and shortly thereafter. It was as the actual season progressed and the nature of how things began to spin out of control that the Vets became disenchanted. By season 2 it was a complete mess iirc
Yes, I remember it that way too.
Otoh and iirc, John Harbaugh was promoted from DB coach to HC of the Ravens..:)
McAdoo was given a trainwreck and immediately managed playoffs with it.
He gets credit for that.
Last season, injuries were a bigger factor than anything McAdoo could have done - I still agree with firing him, but I don't blame him as much as I blamed Handley.
He got away with an offense that was Eli to OBj, and nothing else, because he had a defense that could hold a fourth quarter lead....
The planets lined up for one season for Mac......the next year, when we had problems and we needed a coach that could make adjustements, we finally saw what we truly had....
McAdoo is another story. He followed a legend, but one that never had the sustained success as Tuna. And he took over an already mediocre team, got an initial bounce from improved D, then fell off a cliff with the help of bad injuries.The lack of an OL and and NYG’s inability to fix it hamstrung any offense. McDLT was probably a better football coach, but a douche who seemed to be putting on an act of being a HC rather than being just a normal guy. In fairness, when you win your quirkiness is charming, when you lose it’s embarrassing...
Basically, I listed 8 reasons why it wasn't all Handley's fault that he sucked
1- Handley actually was ready to quit coaching after the 1990 Super Bowl. At age 46, Handley was preparing to enter George Washington Law School. It was Bill Parcells (along with George Young's blessing) who talked Handley out leaving the coaching ranks. Parcells offered Handley a promotion from offensive backfield coach to offensive coordinator. In doing so, Parcells moved the current OC, Ron Erhardt to a new Assistant Head Coach position, where he was going to have greater oversight in the overall team, and help Parcells.
2- George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick. He didn't feel that he was ready to be a head coach in the NFL, so never stood in his way to keep him around when teams came calling for him after the victory over the Bills. He was more concerned with Handley going to Law School than Belichick going to the Browns.
3- Bill Parcells really pushed for Handley. Parcells coached with Handley back in 1968 at West Point. And in Parcells' second season as Giants Head Coach in 1984, he brought Handley on to his staff as an offensive assistant. In several interviews over the years, Parcells would refer to Handley as a "computer on his staff". He was noting Handley's attention to detail, football x's and o's intelligence, breaking down situations. Unfortunately, the Parcells' Giants were built in his own image. The team responded to Parcells' mindgames. Parcells was a cult of personality in leading the Giants. Handley was not ever going to be that same charismatic guy and Parcells was a tough act to follow. In fact, a few times, Handley would tell the press that it wasn't the coach's job to motivate players, they should do it themselves as professionals. So Parcells' own high opinion of Handley, actually would set him up to fail.
4- Media saavy: This one really pointed to an issue which the Giants and Parcells should have realized that Handley was just not ready for the big stage and media glare. Now, you don't need to be a media darling to be a successful coach. Belichick proved that in New England. Coughlin isn't Parcells when it comes to working with the media, but he slips in his barbs and little jokes here and there. Generally speaking, a coach needs to understand how to handle the press and understand how they function. Handley never got that. Look no further than his infamous exchange with Russ Salzberg in December 1991, when he was asked a question about the QB situation (Simms starting, Hoss out with injury) and he refused to answer the question, mocked a sigh/pout at Salzberg, and then stormed off. That is blood in the water. Even years later, in 2007 when he was reached for comments on the Giants in the Super Bowl, he told Newsday reporter Jim Baumbach: "No, I'm not the least bit interested. Thank you very much." And hung up. This is who he was, the Giants had him in the family for 7 years, he wasn't ready for NY (and likely would never be), and the Giants should have known or somehow mitigated this.
5- Handley's only stint as Head Coach was in 1977 at Reed High School in Sparks, Nevada. He had just had his responsibilities increased to Offensive Coordinator. And then after the draft, when Parcells stepped down, he was handed the Head Coach spot of the Giants. However, Handley decided to keep his Offensive Coordinator title. That was simply too much to ask of him. The safer route should have been to name Ron Erhardt the head coach, as he had previous experience in New England with the Patriots (including a 9 and 10 win season in his time). Now, Handley compounded that mistake on his own, by actually demoting Erhardt from his Assistant Head Coach position and had him doing, essentially offensive quality control tasks breaking down film on opponents. Young and Mara should have stepped in here, make Erhardt the head coach, and let Handley grow into the position, if they felt that strongly about him. Erhardt was 60 years old, he wasn't going to be the long term answer, which is what they had hoped for in Handley. Make Erhardt the coach and then set up a succession plan to bring Handley on in a year or two. As it would turn out, in 1992, Handley promoted Jim Fassel from QB coach to Offensive Coordinator to rectify that mistake, but it was too late.
6- The Giants roster was getting old. Look at the ages of several of the key members: Simms (37 in his 12th year), LT (32 in his 10th year), OJ Anderson (34 in his 12th year), Bart Oates (33), Everson Walls (32), Leonard Marshall (30), Perry Williams (30), Hostetler (30), Banks/Reasons (29). Of the young core players, the Giants only really had Rodney Hampton and Brian Williams ready to join the lineup right away and make an impact. So the team was headed towards a downswing/ transition, and that is as much on George Young as anyone.
7- The Giants didn't do Handley any favors on the defensive side of the ball. As noted above, the defense was getting up there in age. Losing 2 top defensive minds in one off season in both Parcells and Belichick was an enormous blow. With Handley stretched so thin keeping his OC title, he was really reliant on his defensive staff to keep things going. The defensive coordinator job fell to an in house replacement, as Al Groh was promoted from linebacker coach to DC. In the past, when Parcells was asked about defensive rankings, he would always say that the most important stat he cares about is points allowed. In 1989, the Giants allowed 252 points (#2 in NFL) and were 5th in yards allowed. In 1990, the Giants allowed 211 points (#1 in the NFL) and were 2nd in yards allowed. Under Al Groh: 297 points (#12 in NFL) and 7th in yards allowed. Groh was out after his only season, and rejoined Belichick in Cleveland. The Giants decided to go for a more veteran coach and decided on former Chiefs, Patriots, and Steelers DC Rod Rust, who coached on the Stanford staff when Handley was a running back there. All you have to say to any Giants fan who recalls the era is "Read and React" and they will instantly get nauseous and angry simultaneously. Rust was a horrible fit in 1992 and the stats showed it: 367 points (#26 in the NFL) and 18th in yards allowed. Bottom line, Handley didn't get much help at all.
8- He actually made a sound decision on Simms v. Hostetler for the starting QB job. This whole thing was also a perfect storm. QB controversies can split teams and create a media frenzy. Add in all the issues listed above and then throw in a popular but aging QB who won a Super Bowl MVP and was coming off an injury (Simms), and the younger, more mobile QB in Hostetler, who just finished a run that resulted in a Super Bowl win. As a starter, Hoss was 4-0 in the regular season (and he also had wins when he played the balance of the game after an injury to Simms in 1989 vs the Vikings and 1990 vs. the Cardinals) and was 3-0 in the post season. Hostetler was also in the Giants system for 6 years and was 30 entering 1991. If you are Handley, looking to make your mark as the head coach for a long time in NY, do you go with a 37 year old Super Bowl winning QB coming off an injury, or a 30 year old Super Bowl winning QB, who also happened to have the added dimension of being able to move and run? He chose Hostetler, and Hoss went 6-5 as a starter before going down with broken bones in his back in Tampa and Simms took over the rest of the way. In 1992, he reversed his decision and named Simms the starter. The Giants decided it was time to move on from the QB controversy and bring in youth, and actually carried 4 QBs in 1992 (Simms, Hostetler, Dave Brown, Kent Graham). Handley was too inexperienced to deal with this QB problem. He should have named one a starter and the other should have been traded. Reeves put his foot down immediately in 1993, chosing Simms (knowing that Brown or Graham would be the replacement) and moved Hoss on to Oakland.
If you want to read that old review, you can see it at the link.
http://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2012/07/1991-giants-v-oilers.html - ( New Window )
Yet, the Eli gets a pass around here for last year, by the Eli Faithful, because of all the injuries. And there is some merit there.
So why is McAdoo not given the same leeway? Why doesn't he some benefit of the doubt for the injuries? It's not like he caused the injuries...
Look, I never liked McAdoo. But to give Eli a mulligan and not McAdoo seems a bit disingenuous for the EFC...
Yet, the Eli gets a pass around here for last year, by the Eli Faithful, because of all the injuries. And there is some merit there.
So why is McAdoo not given the same leeway? Why doesn't he some benefit of the doubt for the injuries? It's not like he caused the injuries...
Look, I never liked McAdoo. But to give Eli a mulligan and not McAdoo seems a bit disingenuous for the EFC...
Did Eli lie to the owner? Your schtick is really old.