If Davis Webb were to have a killer training camp and pre-season, and is clearly ahead a better player than Eli in the eyes of the coaches. How will that play out?
who have contacts within the Giants organization. I am not sure why people keep dismissing them. Ben told Mara one thing and Eli another. It caught Mara off guard.
It shouldnt shock someone that two people went rogue when they knew they were done as Giants.
Did it ever occur to you that these contacts are getting information that Jints Central wants disseminated to fashion a narrative in their favor?
Because let me tell you something, Jints Central is very, very sensitive to their image as a "flagship franchise" and a "class franchise". So they are not immune to using tools to protect that - outwardly and behind the scenes. Remember, the season started with the Josh Brown fiasco. This Eli situation was a terrible bookend to a terrible season off the field as well...
Dep - now that I have gotten caught up with the events
I don't know what you mean by he told Mara one thing and Eli another? I haven't seen the two statements or maybe i missed them. The bw post above doesn't say two different statements.
RE: Dep - now that I have gotten caught up with the events
I don't know what you mean by he told Mara one thing and Eli another? I haven't seen the two statements or maybe i missed them. The bw post above doesn't say two different statements.
Because Mara has not publicly stated what happened nor will he ever. However, here is this...
Quote:
John Mara's explanation for the Great Eli Benching Debacle speaks to an even greater level of dysfunction within this franchise, and given the evidence this season, that's downright scary.
To recap: The Giants co-owner said he initiated the discussion of playing the younger quarterbacks this season. Head coach Ben McAdoo came up with a "plan," and Mara signed off on it, but the "plan" that was presented to Eli Manning was different from the "plan" that Mara thought was going into action.
Mara thought that Manning would start the game with the assumption that, if he was playing well and the Giants had a chance to win, that he'd stay out there -- something that sounds perfectly reasonable. McAdoo told Manning that he would play the first half and backup Geno Smith would play the second half no matter what, and rightly so, the man with 210 consecutive starts said "uh, yeah, no thanks."
John Mara's explanation for the Great Eli Benching Debacle speaks to an even greater level of dysfunction within this franchise, and given the evidence this season, that's downright scary.
To recap: The Giants co-owner said he initiated the discussion of playing the younger quarterbacks this season. Head coach Ben McAdoo came up with a "plan," and Mara signed off on it, but the "plan" that was presented to Eli Manning was different from the "plan" that Mara thought was going into action.
Mara thought that Manning would start the game with the assumption that, if he was playing well and the Giants had a chance to win, that he'd stay out there -- something that sounds perfectly reasonable. McAdoo told Manning that he would play the first half and backup Geno Smith would play the second half no matter what, and rightly so, the man with 210 consecutive starts said "uh, yeah, no thanks."
Two simple questions.
1) Why didn't Mara circle back to add the caveat of flexibility to the plan as he stated in AN ACTUAL quote I used above?
2) I'll take any reason - make on up - but tell me why an employee for 23 at Jints Central (Reese) and a first time coach in the biggest sport in our country (McAdoo) commit an act of defiance so egregious that it could be construed as career suicide?
John Mara's explanation for the Great Eli Benching Debacle speaks to an even greater level of dysfunction within this franchise, and given the evidence this season, that's downright scary.
To recap: The Giants co-owner said he initiated the discussion of playing the younger quarterbacks this season. Head coach Ben McAdoo came up with a "plan," and Mara signed off on it, but the "plan" that was presented to Eli Manning was different from the "plan" that Mara thought was going into action.
Mara thought that Manning would start the game with the assumption that, if he was playing well and the Giants had a chance to win, that he'd stay out there -- something that sounds perfectly reasonable. McAdoo told Manning that he would play the first half and backup Geno Smith would play the second half no matter what, and rightly so, the man with 210 consecutive starts said "uh, yeah, no thanks."
Two simple questions.
1) Why didn't Mara circle back to add the caveat of flexibility to the plan as he stated in AN ACTUAL quote I used above?
2) I'll take any reason - make on up - but tell me why an employee for 23 at Jints Central (Reese) and a first time coach in the biggest sport in our country (McAdoo) commit an act of defiance so egregious that it could be construed as career suicide?
1. Mara could not keep up with circus. He wasnt even in the building when Eli had his presser. He probably wanted to take the high road to make the decision as less competent as it is.
2. Ego/stubborness. Reese has stated he is probably done. Why not go out with a bang. Start the first black QB in Giants history! McAdoo just isnt as smart as people may want to think. He hated Eli, and he never wanted him to play to begin with. The only way to get other QBs involved was to mislead the owner. He probably wasnt expecting the Eli interview and backlash.
RE: RE: RE: Dep - now that I have gotten caught up with the events
John Mara's explanation for the Great Eli Benching Debacle speaks to an even greater level of dysfunction within this franchise, and given the evidence this season, that's downright scary.
To recap: The Giants co-owner said he initiated the discussion of playing the younger quarterbacks this season. Head coach Ben McAdoo came up with a "plan," and Mara signed off on it, but the "plan" that was presented to Eli Manning was different from the "plan" that Mara thought was going into action.
Mara thought that Manning would start the game with the assumption that, if he was playing well and the Giants had a chance to win, that he'd stay out there -- something that sounds perfectly reasonable. McAdoo told Manning that he would play the first half and backup Geno Smith would play the second half no matter what, and rightly so, the man with 210 consecutive starts said "uh, yeah, no thanks."
Two simple questions.
1) Why didn't Mara circle back to add the caveat of flexibility to the plan as he stated in AN ACTUAL quote I used above?
2) I'll take any reason - make on up - but tell me why an employee for 23 at Jints Central (Reese) and a first time coach in the biggest sport in our country (McAdoo) commit an act of defiance so egregious that it could be construed as career suicide?
1) Mara was out of town at ownership meetings and things transpired fast. Once the press release went out the next morning there was no going back.
2) There was no act of defiance. All three wanted to get a look at the other QBs. At most there was miscommunication or a lack of communication to the particulars. Their big mistake was not anticipating 1) Eli's response and 2) how the NFL community (Fans / players / commentators) would react.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Dep - now that I have gotten caught up with the events
2. Ego/stubborness. Reese has stated he is probably done. Why not go out with a bang. Start the first black QB in Giants history! McAdoo just isnt as smart as people may want to think. He hated Eli, and he never wanted him to play to begin with. The only way to get other QBs involved was to mislead the owner. He probably wasnt expecting the Eli interview and backlash.
This is approaching BW in DC territory from the other side with the conspiracy theories. The old quote applies here: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
1. Mara could not keep up with circus. He wasnt even in the building when Eli had his presser. He probably wanted to take the high road to make the decision as less competent as it is.
2. Ego/stubborness. Reese has stated he is probably done. Why not go out with a bang. Start the first black QB in Giants history! McAdoo just isnt as smart as people may want to think. He hated Eli, and he never wanted him to play to begin with. The only way to get other QBs involved was to mislead the owner. He probably wasnt expecting the Eli interview and backlash.
Re: 1 - You're kidding, right? You're comfortable with that answer? He's the owner of the team. And the team just made one of the most important decisions in its history - bench their 2X SB QB. Mara just went completely dark? Is Mara such a dove that he's afraid to manage his own employees?
Sorry, this is a cop out answer. And giving way too much cover and benefit of the doubt to Mara.
Re: 2 - I really can't believe what you just wrote. Reese wanted to go out with a bang and humiliate the owner who employed him for 23 years. And McAdoo suddenly has this animosity towards Eli - I'd love to know where that comes from - that he was willing to be a martyr and kill his career.
You seem to be a smart poster. I really suggest you pick up your game on this...
you dont think McAdoo had disdain for Eli the 2 years as HC?
He called him out at will whenever he made a mistake. This was no secret. I wasnt serious about the black QB thing. Ill try to be more serious next time.
RE: RE: Sorry, not buying proposed answers to #1 and #2
Mara was not aware of the Eli thing until it became public. From what he understood, McAdoo was gonna tell him that he was playing until the game was out of hand.
he was out at a meeting when the shitstorm blew. How could he have prevented it?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Dep - now that I have gotten caught up with the events
Mara was not aware of the Eli thing until it became public. From what he understood, McAdoo was gonna tell him that he was playing until the game was out of hand.
he was out at a meeting when the shitstorm blew. How could he have prevented it?
he could have rectified it afterwards as we have discussed...
Mara was not aware of the Eli thing until it became public. From what he understood, McAdoo was gonna tell him that he was playing until the game was out of hand.
he was out at a meeting when the shitstorm blew. How could he have prevented it?
he could have rectified it afterwards as we have discussed...
You cant rectify something once its said when it comes to who plays and who doesnt. You dont tell Geno he is starting and then tell him he is benched because the coach fucked up. And I doubt Eli would have started under those conditions anyways.
you dont think McAdoo had disdain for Eli the 2 years as HC?
I submit this was just another example of McAdoo being clueless how to manage a post-game presser.
That I'll disagree with. He would frequently throw shade his way while covering for other players. Even when it became obvious the line had issues he would never call any of them out.
That I'll disagree with. He would frequently throw shade his way while covering for other players. Even when it became obvious the line had issues he would never call any of them out.
Maybe, so fair enough. The guy was all over the place that he needed some serious training wheels how to deal with the media.
May be just me, but I thought McAdoo was doing his own
He knew the o-line was getting tons of pressure/bad press and I think by using some suggestive remarks towards Eli and the RBs in his pressers he was trying to spread out that blame...
RE: May be just me, but I thought McAdoo was doing his own
He knew the o-line was getting tons of pressure/bad press and I think by using some suggestive remarks towards Eli and the RBs in his pressers he was trying to spread out that blame...
would make comments even when not directly asked about Eli.
I one particular exchange, he was asked about the struggles of Flowers and Hart and he actually said the OL was doing fine and then in the next sentence said they expect better play at QB.
That's not really shifting blame, it is deflecting it from the OL directly onto the QB.
Semantics...since know he wasn't good at a lot of things
He knew the o-line was getting tons of pressure/bad press and I think by using some suggestive remarks towards Eli and the RBs in his pressers he was trying to spread out that blame...
I agree with this. And Ben has said as much saying that he know Eli could handle it.
I have a hard time believing he had disdain for Eli. That just doesn't seem possible given Eli's character and work ethic.
And in total aren't we talking about three or so comments on Eli?
The point I'm making is this was not some big conspiracy to bench Eli for the whole game to hand over the reins to Geno. I just don't believe that.
And I also dont think it was Mac's call, that either Reese or Mara dictated this but thats just like my opinion man
Speaking from my corner, I've never broached that idea about a need to see Geno. I found that idea reprehensible - like nearly everyone. I wanted Davis thrown out there into the fire. It was the perfect time, as discussed ad nauseum, to get him live reps.
I think the QB switch started with Mara when it was clear the season was sunk. So, and some of this was reported, Mara started asking the personnel team to ratchet-up the college evaluations, and his interest in seeing what else they had in Webb/Geno (but mostly Webb). I think he tasked McAdoo and Reese to devise a plan to sit Eli, and try to do it in the most respectful way under the circumstances. I believe that's exactly what the did - with Oakland has the transition game - and Mara completely signed off.
But then all hell broke lose because NO ONE anticipated the intensity of the blow back. That completely startled Mara and he went into crisis management mode.
The problem - my problem - is that Mara mismanaged the crisis; and laid way too much blame on the HC and GM so he would have the least amount of stench.
And he can't fire him self, so I'm not sure what you want him to do
That he said, yes. But that's really not the issue.
The issue/curiosity is about Mara's veracity on what he said happened in the planning process. And he has quite a few contradictions in his explanations that don't shine a very good light on him.
I didn't follow the details of the Eli-benching story because of work at that the time so this is all pretty interesting.
Still cannot fathom the team didn't get Webb in there at all last season. I know I was on a bunch of threads even before this disaster saying the same, with many others.
Always thought it was comical how many posters were so adamant to toe-the-party-line back then with all the excuses...he's not ready, it will be a traumatic experience when he fails, he will be scarred for life, blah/blah.
When the most important thing was for him to get live snaps and for FO/mngt to see some basic tools/fundamental learnings.
He will go quitely if he sees that Webb or Lauretta is clearly a better option for the Giants. Do not know if he wants to stay in FB but would be a great coach or front office candidate. We will see. Hoping he gets another SB, but that is wishful thinking. Not Brady or his brother in talent but right up there, IMO.
RE: If Pat Shurmur thinks Webb is doing really well and
better than Eli, then he should bench Eli and play Webb.. You can't let Eli's past get in the way. Put the best players out there and Pat gets to choose.. No need to put Eli out there to appease the crowd..
and what we think happened, I'll add my two cents.
First, it's important to remember the context. We'd been losing and the offense had been struggling. When Webb was drafted with a day-two pick the media was already describing him as Eli's eventual successor.
As the season wore on and it was clear that we were a bad team, but before we were eliminated, there was the realization that we would have one of the top picks in the draft. Knowing that there was a group of highly-rated QB's, there was naturally discussion about whether we should be picking a QB, and if so, which one. Given that we already selected "Eli's eventual successor" in Webb, there were a number of voices who argued then even that we should find out what Webb brought to the table to give us additional data on who should be picked at the top of the draft.
In that light, it makes sense that some of those same discussions were already taking place within the braintrust of the Giants, including McAdoo, Reese, and Mara. Sensing the season slipping away the decision was made by this group to give some playing time to Webb once we were eliminated from the playoffs. Knowing the historical nature of Eli's streak, the team decided to keep Eli's starting streak alive by allowing him to start and removing him later. The actual logistics of how that would happen (at half, playing Geno) may or may have been discussed. I think the approval was given with the idea that McAdoo/Reese would handle the logistics in a way consistent with the Giants organization's appreciation of Eli's contributions.
I think that Eli had become distrustful of McAdoo at this point. I also think McAdoo was one who, despite his abhorrent second season, still had a ton of confidence in his own abilities as a coach. It's also clear that McAdoo was not a great communicator and didn't use a lot of tact when dealing with the media, so it follows that the way he delivered the message to Eli was the same. Eli clearly took offense and decided he wasn't going to be a part of the mess McAdoo was creating.
Mara was caught by surprise when the team announced that Eli wouldn't be starting. He truly didn't expect Eli to respond as he did. Later discussions with Eli and others revealed to him the level of distrust and incompetency his players felt about their coach. This sealed McAdoo's fate.
Reese had been told following Coughlin's departure that he would be next if the team continued to struggle. Mara blamed Reese for allowing the Geno start to happen. He felt that Reese should have been aware enough of the relationship between Eli and McAdoo and not allowed McAdoo to deliver the plan to Eli personally. That was the final straw for McAdoo.
After their terminations Coach Spags took on the unenviable task of finishing out the season. At that point, Mara felt it only fair to allow him every opportunity to win games by throwing out the original plan to evaluate the other QB's. Spags wanted no part of the circus and stuck to the plan for Eli to play every snap barring injury.
Anyway - this is just my opinion for how I think things went down, from a guy with no insider knowledge but who followed every bit of news as it happened.
when he threw 4 ints in a lost to the Vikings and losing twice to the Redskins in the 2011 season perhaps his best season...throwing 50 times into wind at home.
you dont think McAdoo had disdain for Eli the 2 years as HC?
I submit this was just another example of McAdoo being clueless how to manage a post-game presser.
That I'll disagree with. He would frequently throw shade his way while covering for other players. Even when it became obvious the line had issues he would never call any of them out.
This is absolutely not true. He called the OL out plenty. He just never called out any of them individually - he would just say "the line." And for the most part, he would say "the quarterback" in the same way. The difference is, there's only one QB, so it came across as a more direct criticism, but this idea that McAdoo never criticized the OL is pure crap.
It shouldnt shock someone that two people went rogue when they knew they were done as Giants.
Did it ever occur to you that these contacts are getting information that Jints Central wants disseminated to fashion a narrative in their favor?
Because let me tell you something, Jints Central is very, very sensitive to their image as a "flagship franchise" and a "class franchise". So they are not immune to using tools to protect that - outwardly and behind the scenes. Remember, the season started with the Josh Brown fiasco. This Eli situation was a terrible bookend to a terrible season off the field as well...
Because Mara has not publicly stated what happened nor will he ever. However, here is this...
To recap: The Giants co-owner said he initiated the discussion of playing the younger quarterbacks this season. Head coach Ben McAdoo came up with a "plan," and Mara signed off on it, but the "plan" that was presented to Eli Manning was different from the "plan" that Mara thought was going into action.
Mara thought that Manning would start the game with the assumption that, if he was playing well and the Giants had a chance to win, that he'd stay out there -- something that sounds perfectly reasonable. McAdoo told Manning that he would play the first half and backup Geno Smith would play the second half no matter what, and rightly so, the man with 210 consecutive starts said "uh, yeah, no thanks."
And he didn't...
Quote:
John Mara's explanation for the Great Eli Benching Debacle speaks to an even greater level of dysfunction within this franchise, and given the evidence this season, that's downright scary.
To recap: The Giants co-owner said he initiated the discussion of playing the younger quarterbacks this season. Head coach Ben McAdoo came up with a "plan," and Mara signed off on it, but the "plan" that was presented to Eli Manning was different from the "plan" that Mara thought was going into action.
Mara thought that Manning would start the game with the assumption that, if he was playing well and the Giants had a chance to win, that he'd stay out there -- something that sounds perfectly reasonable. McAdoo told Manning that he would play the first half and backup Geno Smith would play the second half no matter what, and rightly so, the man with 210 consecutive starts said "uh, yeah, no thanks."
Two simple questions.
1) Why didn't Mara circle back to add the caveat of flexibility to the plan as he stated in AN ACTUAL quote I used above?
2) I'll take any reason - make on up - but tell me why an employee for 23 at Jints Central (Reese) and a first time coach in the biggest sport in our country (McAdoo) commit an act of defiance so egregious that it could be construed as career suicide?
Quote:
Quote:
John Mara's explanation for the Great Eli Benching Debacle speaks to an even greater level of dysfunction within this franchise, and given the evidence this season, that's downright scary.
To recap: The Giants co-owner said he initiated the discussion of playing the younger quarterbacks this season. Head coach Ben McAdoo came up with a "plan," and Mara signed off on it, but the "plan" that was presented to Eli Manning was different from the "plan" that Mara thought was going into action.
Mara thought that Manning would start the game with the assumption that, if he was playing well and the Giants had a chance to win, that he'd stay out there -- something that sounds perfectly reasonable. McAdoo told Manning that he would play the first half and backup Geno Smith would play the second half no matter what, and rightly so, the man with 210 consecutive starts said "uh, yeah, no thanks."
Two simple questions.
1) Why didn't Mara circle back to add the caveat of flexibility to the plan as he stated in AN ACTUAL quote I used above?
2) I'll take any reason - make on up - but tell me why an employee for 23 at Jints Central (Reese) and a first time coach in the biggest sport in our country (McAdoo) commit an act of defiance so egregious that it could be construed as career suicide?
1. Mara could not keep up with circus. He wasnt even in the building when Eli had his presser. He probably wanted to take the high road to make the decision as less competent as it is.
2. Ego/stubborness. Reese has stated he is probably done. Why not go out with a bang. Start the first black QB in Giants history! McAdoo just isnt as smart as people may want to think. He hated Eli, and he never wanted him to play to begin with. The only way to get other QBs involved was to mislead the owner. He probably wasnt expecting the Eli interview and backlash.
Quote:
Quote:
John Mara's explanation for the Great Eli Benching Debacle speaks to an even greater level of dysfunction within this franchise, and given the evidence this season, that's downright scary.
To recap: The Giants co-owner said he initiated the discussion of playing the younger quarterbacks this season. Head coach Ben McAdoo came up with a "plan," and Mara signed off on it, but the "plan" that was presented to Eli Manning was different from the "plan" that Mara thought was going into action.
Mara thought that Manning would start the game with the assumption that, if he was playing well and the Giants had a chance to win, that he'd stay out there -- something that sounds perfectly reasonable. McAdoo told Manning that he would play the first half and backup Geno Smith would play the second half no matter what, and rightly so, the man with 210 consecutive starts said "uh, yeah, no thanks."
Two simple questions.
1) Why didn't Mara circle back to add the caveat of flexibility to the plan as he stated in AN ACTUAL quote I used above?
2) I'll take any reason - make on up - but tell me why an employee for 23 at Jints Central (Reese) and a first time coach in the biggest sport in our country (McAdoo) commit an act of defiance so egregious that it could be construed as career suicide?
1) Mara was out of town at ownership meetings and things transpired fast. Once the press release went out the next morning there was no going back.
2) There was no act of defiance. All three wanted to get a look at the other QBs. At most there was miscommunication or a lack of communication to the particulars. Their big mistake was not anticipating 1) Eli's response and 2) how the NFL community (Fans / players / commentators) would react.
2. Ego/stubborness. Reese has stated he is probably done. Why not go out with a bang. Start the first black QB in Giants history! McAdoo just isnt as smart as people may want to think. He hated Eli, and he never wanted him to play to begin with. The only way to get other QBs involved was to mislead the owner. He probably wasnt expecting the Eli interview and backlash.
This is approaching BW in DC territory from the other side with the conspiracy theories. The old quote applies here: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
me or dep?
1. Mara could not keep up with circus. He wasnt even in the building when Eli had his presser. He probably wanted to take the high road to make the decision as less competent as it is.
2. Ego/stubborness. Reese has stated he is probably done. Why not go out with a bang. Start the first black QB in Giants history! McAdoo just isnt as smart as people may want to think. He hated Eli, and he never wanted him to play to begin with. The only way to get other QBs involved was to mislead the owner. He probably wasnt expecting the Eli interview and backlash.
Re: 1 - You're kidding, right? You're comfortable with that answer? He's the owner of the team. And the team just made one of the most important decisions in its history - bench their 2X SB QB. Mara just went completely dark? Is Mara such a dove that he's afraid to manage his own employees?
Sorry, this is a cop out answer. And giving way too much cover and benefit of the doubt to Mara.
Re: 2 - I really can't believe what you just wrote. Reese wanted to go out with a bang and humiliate the owner who employed him for 23 years. And McAdoo suddenly has this animosity towards Eli - I'd love to know where that comes from - that he was willing to be a martyr and kill his career.
You seem to be a smart poster. I really suggest you pick up your game on this...
He called him out at will whenever he made a mistake. This was no secret. I wasnt serious about the black QB thing. Ill try to be more serious next time.
Quote:
above...
me or dep?
both
he was out at a meeting when the shitstorm blew. How could he have prevented it?
This is approaching BW in DC territory from the other side with the conspiracy theories.
How dare you knock my quasi-investigative journalist efforts... ;)
not a good comment...
he was out at a meeting when the shitstorm blew. How could he have prevented it?
he could have rectified it afterwards as we have discussed...
Quote:
of starting a black QB was pure hypothetical.
not a good comment...
it has been well documented in the past the Giants were the only franchise not to start a black QB. There is no hidden meaning by it whatsoever.
Quote:
Mara was not aware of the Eli thing until it became public. From what he understood, McAdoo was gonna tell him that he was playing until the game was out of hand.
he was out at a meeting when the shitstorm blew. How could he have prevented it?
he could have rectified it afterwards as we have discussed...
You cant rectify something once its said when it comes to who plays and who doesnt. You dont tell Geno he is starting and then tell him he is benched because the coach fucked up. And I doubt Eli would have started under those conditions anyways.
What, he wanted to show the coach he had his back or something??
I submit this was just another example of McAdoo being clueless how to manage a post-game presser.
Quote:
you dont think McAdoo had disdain for Eli the 2 years as HC?
I submit this was just another example of McAdoo being clueless how to manage a post-game presser.
That I'll disagree with. He would frequently throw shade his way while covering for other players. Even when it became obvious the line had issues he would never call any of them out.
That I'll disagree with. He would frequently throw shade his way while covering for other players. Even when it became obvious the line had issues he would never call any of them out.
Maybe, so fair enough. The guy was all over the place that he needed some serious training wheels how to deal with the media.
He knew the o-line was getting tons of pressure/bad press and I think by using some suggestive remarks towards Eli and the RBs in his pressers he was trying to spread out that blame...
He knew the o-line was getting tons of pressure/bad press and I think by using some suggestive remarks towards Eli and the RBs in his pressers he was trying to spread out that blame...
The blame never started with him though.
I one particular exchange, he was asked about the struggles of Flowers and Hart and he actually said the OL was doing fine and then in the next sentence said they expect better play at QB.
That's not really shifting blame, it is deflecting it from the OL directly onto the QB.
He knew the o-line was getting tons of pressure/bad press and I think by using some suggestive remarks towards Eli and the RBs in his pressers he was trying to spread out that blame...
I agree with this. And Ben has said as much saying that he know Eli could handle it.
I have a hard time believing he had disdain for Eli. That just doesn't seem possible given Eli's character and work ethic.
The point I'm making is this was not some big conspiracy to bench Eli for the whole game to hand over the reins to Geno. I just don't believe that.
And I also dont think it was Mac's call, that either Reese or Mara dictated this but thats just like my opinion man
The point I'm making is this was not some big conspiracy to bench Eli for the whole game to hand over the reins to Geno. I just don't believe that.
And I also dont think it was Mac's call, that either Reese or Mara dictated this but thats just like my opinion man
Speaking from my corner, I've never broached that idea about a need to see Geno. I found that idea reprehensible - like nearly everyone. I wanted Davis thrown out there into the fire. It was the perfect time, as discussed ad nauseum, to get him live reps.
I think the QB switch started with Mara when it was clear the season was sunk. So, and some of this was reported, Mara started asking the personnel team to ratchet-up the college evaluations, and his interest in seeing what else they had in Webb/Geno (but mostly Webb). I think he tasked McAdoo and Reese to devise a plan to sit Eli, and try to do it in the most respectful way under the circumstances. I believe that's exactly what the did - with Oakland has the transition game - and Mara completely signed off.
But then all hell broke lose because NO ONE anticipated the intensity of the blow back. That completely startled Mara and he went into crisis management mode.
The problem - my problem - is that Mara mismanaged the crisis; and laid way too much blame on the HC and GM so he would have the least amount of stench.
That he said, yes. But that's really not the issue.
The issue/curiosity is about Mara's veracity on what he said happened in the planning process. And he has quite a few contradictions in his explanations that don't shine a very good light on him.
Still cannot fathom the team didn't get Webb in there at all last season. I know I was on a bunch of threads even before this disaster saying the same, with many others.
Always thought it was comical how many posters were so adamant to toe-the-party-line back then with all the excuses...he's not ready, it will be a traumatic experience when he fails, he will be scarred for life, blah/blah.
When the most important thing was for him to get live snaps and for FO/mngt to see some basic tools/fundamental learnings.
way too many agendas though...
I totally agree.
First, it's important to remember the context. We'd been losing and the offense had been struggling. When Webb was drafted with a day-two pick the media was already describing him as Eli's eventual successor.
As the season wore on and it was clear that we were a bad team, but before we were eliminated, there was the realization that we would have one of the top picks in the draft. Knowing that there was a group of highly-rated QB's, there was naturally discussion about whether we should be picking a QB, and if so, which one. Given that we already selected "Eli's eventual successor" in Webb, there were a number of voices who argued then even that we should find out what Webb brought to the table to give us additional data on who should be picked at the top of the draft.
In that light, it makes sense that some of those same discussions were already taking place within the braintrust of the Giants, including McAdoo, Reese, and Mara. Sensing the season slipping away the decision was made by this group to give some playing time to Webb once we were eliminated from the playoffs. Knowing the historical nature of Eli's streak, the team decided to keep Eli's starting streak alive by allowing him to start and removing him later. The actual logistics of how that would happen (at half, playing Geno) may or may have been discussed. I think the approval was given with the idea that McAdoo/Reese would handle the logistics in a way consistent with the Giants organization's appreciation of Eli's contributions.
I think that Eli had become distrustful of McAdoo at this point. I also think McAdoo was one who, despite his abhorrent second season, still had a ton of confidence in his own abilities as a coach. It's also clear that McAdoo was not a great communicator and didn't use a lot of tact when dealing with the media, so it follows that the way he delivered the message to Eli was the same. Eli clearly took offense and decided he wasn't going to be a part of the mess McAdoo was creating.
Mara was caught by surprise when the team announced that Eli wouldn't be starting. He truly didn't expect Eli to respond as he did. Later discussions with Eli and others revealed to him the level of distrust and incompetency his players felt about their coach. This sealed McAdoo's fate.
Reese had been told following Coughlin's departure that he would be next if the team continued to struggle. Mara blamed Reese for allowing the Geno start to happen. He felt that Reese should have been aware enough of the relationship between Eli and McAdoo and not allowed McAdoo to deliver the plan to Eli personally. That was the final straw for McAdoo.
After their terminations Coach Spags took on the unenviable task of finishing out the season. At that point, Mara felt it only fair to allow him every opportunity to win games by throwing out the original plan to evaluate the other QB's. Spags wanted no part of the circus and stuck to the plan for Eli to play every snap barring injury.
Anyway - this is just my opinion for how I think things went down, from a guy with no insider knowledge but who followed every bit of news as it happened.
then Barkley will be benched and eventually cut
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In comment 13972697 dep026 said:
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you dont think McAdoo had disdain for Eli the 2 years as HC?
I submit this was just another example of McAdoo being clueless how to manage a post-game presser.
That I'll disagree with. He would frequently throw shade his way while covering for other players. Even when it became obvious the line had issues he would never call any of them out.
This is absolutely not true. He called the OL out plenty. He just never called out any of them individually - he would just say "the line." And for the most part, he would say "the quarterback" in the same way. The difference is, there's only one QB, so it came across as a more direct criticism, but this idea that McAdoo never criticized the OL is pure crap.