If Davis Webb were to have a killer training camp and pre-season, and is clearly ahead a better player than Eli in the eyes of the coaches. How will that play out?
As teams are usually very Vanilla in preseason and Webb likely won’t have many reps against starters or with our first team O. That being said, I would increase his practice reps with the first team O with the goal that if Eli is struggling you bring in Webb
Him, but outplay him to the point where it almost seems negligent to leave him on the bench. Like say we’re 3-2 and the offense is in the middle of the pack. Is there any scenario where Eli is average and doesn’t get hurt (which he never does) and the coaches make a change. Or is it just too politically toxic to do that to Eli.
Would only be preseason, which we all should be able to agree isn't near the same as the regular season. In your scenario the coaches would probably stick with Manning. Manning would have to be the clear culprit for the offense's problems before the coaches even think about a switch.
better than Eli, then he should bench Eli and play Webb.. You can't let Eli's past get in the way. Put the best players out there and Pat gets to choose.. No need to put Eli out there to appease the crowd..
After committing themselves to Eli, which is what the general consensus was after the draft, the Giants would bench him at 3-2 because Webb had a good preseason.
This isEli s team. Even guys like me who wanted Darnold have to admit that.
I m fine with it. But have to admit if they would replace Eli with Webb, and he flopped, that would be hard to take, especially if Darnold was playing well.
But if you're going to bench Eli, you'd better damn sure you're right or it will cost you your job. You're done, you're finished, you're out the door without as much as a goodbye. See: Ben McAdoo.
Eli is the starter.
This appeasing Eli stuff is a bunch of bullshit. Â
DG and PS are professionals with main goals to put the Giants in the best position to win. Right now, as some posters have pointed out, Eli is the starter unless he plays pitifully poor or gets injured. Let Eli get use to his now Oline, running game and offensive system. Even if the Giants go 0-2, your can't pull Eli. The early portion of the the Giants schedule is rough. This team needs to gel, but not at he expense of both Eli and Davis. Do you really want to go with Webb early into the season where everyone is still learning and the Oline is gelling still gelling? That could be a disaster for the psyche of Webb, if he gets kills. You have to take into consideration that the line is not going to be productive optimally early in the season. Eli can handle that situation better. Let the season play out but don't force it early.
At this age, it's important for guys like Brady, Lebron, Eli, Brees, etc to use their time and bodies wisely.
You will probably see Eli slowly work into game shape, arm shape as the summer progresses. It's May, my guess is Eli was throwing at 75% yesterday, whereas Webb is all in, every day. He is fighting for his life.
...that how could they resist starting Webb, right?
The fan outrage about it was a lot worse than any on-field result related to it.
That's the problem, though. I highly doubt we'd have this problem, but even if it did present itself, benching Eli again would go down like a lead balloon. He's here for this year at least, if not more.
or a complete collapse, Eli will be the starter as long as the team is still in the running.
what about if we are 2-6 at the bye and the div leader is 6-2
You think they would make a switch in that scenario?
Yeah, I doubt there's any scenario where Eli hits the bench, barring injury. If it's another down year, unless it's very clearly Eli that's shitting the bed, it's going to be Eli for '18 and then a change at the helm in 19.
I guess you can never say never, as most of us never expected a 3-win season last year, and Eli's arm could always fall off, but barring something very unexpected, I think it's safe to assume Eli will be the starter for the season, barring injury.
Eli will play until his arm or his legs fail. Until then, nobody will Â
out-play him. The idea that Webb will somehow be better than the current version of Eli Manning is just silly.
Eli will be replaced when Eli's performance comes DOWN to Webb's level because Webb won't be coming UP to Eli's current performance level in the near future, if ever.
Reading the stories from yesterday's first OTA practice helps fuel the controversy. Reading that Webb looked sharp, accurate, decisive, and showed a strong arm while Eli struggled a bit is exactly how these controversies are born.
Obviously we are a long ways away from that. There are very few fans who already are calling for Webb to start over Eli.
That could definitely change, and I think the OP has the right idea in terms of the time frames.
By the Philly game we will have seen enough to start to expect good performances from Eli. Forget the W-L record, we could be 5-0 but if Eli seems to be holding the offense back with inaccuracy and poor overall performance there will be some calling for Webb.
Given that scenario I do think the outcome of that Philly game will go a long way in determining Eli's fate with the Giants. If Eli struggles against Philly the QB controversy could be in full bloom.
Of course there are two ways for us to avoid a serious QB controversy:
1. Webb and Lauletta look horrible in preseason, camp, and via practice reports.
2. Eli looks great - leads an efficient offense that scores points and rests the defense.
In other words, it's all up to Eli to keep the controversy away.
By the Philly game we will have seen enough to start to expect good performances from Eli. Forget the W-L record, we could be 5-0 but if Eli seems to be holding the offense back with inaccuracy and poor overall performance there will be some calling for Webb.
because that is how you describe when a player is taken out of the lineup.
Have you ever said another player "benched himself"? No. But it is hard to throw an insult Eli's way when the coach does the benching. When he benches himself, it becomes much easier, no?
lots of respect for you, but how often does a coach tell a guy he's going to start and then have that guy say, "no thanks - if I can't finish it isn't fair to me or the other guy, so I'd rather not".
I can't remember another player doing this in any sport.
That's why you don't hear about other players "benching themselves".
When other players are benched by the coach, those conversations don't start with "We're going to have you play the first half".
WRT the W/L record, it won't be the record that's most important, but the play of the QB. It's all in Eli's hands. He just needs to play well to shut everyone up.
I'm rooting for that to happen.
RE: This appeasing Eli stuff is a bunch of bullshit. Â
DG and PS are professionals with main goals to put the Giants in the best position to win. Right now, as some posters have pointed out, Eli is the starter unless he plays pitifully poor or gets injured. Let Eli get use to his now Oline, running game and offensive system. Even if the Giants go 0-2, your can't pull Eli. The early portion of the the Giants schedule is rough. This team needs to gel, but not at he expense of both Eli and Davis. Do you really want to go with Webb early into the season where everyone is still learning and the Oline is gelling still gelling? That could be a disaster for the psyche of Webb, if he gets kills. You have to take into consideration that the line is not going to be productive optimally early in the season. Eli can handle that situation better. Let the season play out but don't force it early.
DG and PS are professionals with main goals to put the Giants in the best position to win. Right now, as some posters have pointed out, Eli is the starter unless he plays pitifully poor or gets injured. Let Eli get use to his now Oline, running game and offensive system. Even if the Giants go 0-2, your can't pull Eli. The early portion of the the Giants schedule is rough. This team needs to gel, but not at he expense of both Eli and Davis. Do you really want to go with Webb early into the season where everyone is still learning and the Oline is gelling still gelling? That could be a disaster for the psyche of Webb, if he gets kills. You have to take into consideration that the line is not going to be productive optimally early in the season. Eli can handle that situation better. Let the season play out but don't force it early.
Ok what if Eli goes 0-3 what is the cut off ?
After mid season. If you think Webb or Lauletta is going to take the Giants to the promise land this year by starting the season early, you might as well join Jimmy Jones in drinking the cool aid. Yeah...let's get these guy's shell shocked with an online in progress of gelling.
It was disgracefully handled and soon after the HC and GM were fired. This new group has stated from the beginning that Eli has not lost anything, has years left of good play, and is the starter. They passed on an opportunity to select Eli's successor from their pick of candidates in this year's draft class, instead opting for a developmental guy in round 4. TRANSLATION: they are putting their money where their mouth is.
Webb is not going to play this year, barring injury.
Him, but outplay him to the point where it almost seems negligent to leave him on the bench. Like say we’re 3-2 and the offense is in the middle of the pack. Is there any scenario where Eli is average and doesn’t get hurt (which he never does) and the coaches make a change. Or is it just too politically toxic to do that to Eli.
So, according to your bias, if the Giants start 3-2, the only reason the Giants wouldn't bench Manning in favor of an untested Webb is because of appearances?
Holy shit. How can you possibly enjoy football with that mindset?
2. If the Giants are 3-2 heading into the Eagles game, there's zero chance they'd bench Eli for Webb. Zero.
3. What a nice problem to have. If Webb looks THAT good in the preseason, that'll certainly be a positive.
Unless the defense scored all of those points, I think Shurmur would give him a bit more rope to hang himself...
Lol, best post in this thread.
This isEli s team. Even guys like me who wanted Darnold have to admit that.
I m fine with it. But have to admit if they would replace Eli with Webb, and he flopped, that would be hard to take, especially if Darnold was playing well.
Eli is the starter.
You will probably see Eli slowly work into game shape, arm shape as the summer progresses. It's May, my guess is Eli was throwing at 75% yesterday, whereas Webb is all in, every day. He is fighting for his life.
^^^ Very true
The fan outrage about it was a lot worse than any on-field result related to it.
Quote:
...that how could they resist starting Webb, right?
The fan outrage about it was a lot worse than any on-field result related to it.
That's the problem, though. I highly doubt we'd have this problem, but even if it did present itself, benching Eli again would go down like a lead balloon. He's here for this year at least, if not more.
what about if we are 2-6 at the bye and the div leader is 6-2
You think they would make a switch in that scenario?
Pffft it’s not like he’s Darkwa
Quote:
or a complete collapse, Eli will be the starter as long as the team is still in the running.
what about if we are 2-6 at the bye and the div leader is 6-2
You think they would make a switch in that scenario?
Quote:
or a complete collapse, Eli will be the starter as long as the team is still in the running.
what about if we are 2-6 at the bye and the div leader is 6-2
You think they would make a switch in that scenario?
Yeah, I doubt there's any scenario where Eli hits the bench, barring injury. If it's another down year, unless it's very clearly Eli that's shitting the bed, it's going to be Eli for '18 and then a change at the helm in 19.
Eli will be replaced when Eli's performance comes DOWN to Webb's level because Webb won't be coming UP to Eli's current performance level in the near future, if ever.
Obviously we are a long ways away from that. There are very few fans who already are calling for Webb to start over Eli.
That could definitely change, and I think the OP has the right idea in terms of the time frames.
By the Philly game we will have seen enough to start to expect good performances from Eli. Forget the W-L record, we could be 5-0 but if Eli seems to be holding the offense back with inaccuracy and poor overall performance there will be some calling for Webb.
Given that scenario I do think the outcome of that Philly game will go a long way in determining Eli's fate with the Giants. If Eli struggles against Philly the QB controversy could be in full bloom.
Of course there are two ways for us to avoid a serious QB controversy:
1. Webb and Lauletta look horrible in preseason, camp, and via practice reports.
2. Eli looks great - leads an efficient offense that scores points and rests the defense.
In other words, it's all up to Eli to keep the controversy away.
If we are 5-0, nobody will be calling for Webb.
Again - Webb might not even outplay Lauletta.
Webb will always look like the shiny piece in practice. It’s always been the games where he has struggled.
Have you ever said another player "benched himself"? No. But it is hard to throw an insult Eli's way when the coach does the benching. When he benches himself, it becomes much easier, no?
How did that work out?
I can't remember another player doing this in any sport.
That's why you don't hear about other players "benching themselves".
When other players are benched by the coach, those conversations don't start with "We're going to have you play the first half".
WRT the W/L record, it won't be the record that's most important, but the play of the QB. It's all in Eli's hands. He just needs to play well to shut everyone up.
I'm rooting for that to happen.
Ok what if Eli goes 0-3 what is the cut off ?
Quote:
DG and PS are professionals with main goals to put the Giants in the best position to win. Right now, as some posters have pointed out, Eli is the starter unless he plays pitifully poor or gets injured. Let Eli get use to his now Oline, running game and offensive system. Even if the Giants go 0-2, your can't pull Eli. The early portion of the the Giants schedule is rough. This team needs to gel, but not at he expense of both Eli and Davis. Do you really want to go with Webb early into the season where everyone is still learning and the Oline is gelling still gelling? That could be a disaster for the psyche of Webb, if he gets kills. You have to take into consideration that the line is not going to be productive optimally early in the season. Eli can handle that situation better. Let the season play out but don't force it early.
Ok what if Eli goes 0-3 what is the cut off ?
After mid season. If you think Webb or Lauletta is going to take the Giants to the promise land this year by starting the season early, you might as well join Jimmy Jones in drinking the cool aid. Yeah...let's get these guy's shell shocked with an online in progress of gelling.
Right now Lauletta is struggling in ota's , and Davis Webb is excelling.
In fact Webb is outperforming Eli Manning in ota's , and hes doing it with backups.
In fact Webb is outperforming Eli Manning in ota's , and hes doing it with backups.
against backups.
Webb is not going to play this year, barring injury.
So, according to your bias, if the Giants start 3-2, the only reason the Giants wouldn't bench Manning in favor of an untested Webb is because of appearances?
Holy shit. How can you possibly enjoy football with that mindset?
Right now Lauletta is struggling in ota's , and Davis Webb is excelling.
In fact Webb is outperforming Eli Manning in ota's , and hes doing it with backups.
I assume its also against backups
But yeah, claiming that Lauletta will outperform Webb at this point seems a little premature.