Assistants:
Keith Smart - hired
Jud Bueschler - rumored to be close to being hired
Van Exel - does not seem to be in the mix
Mike Woodson - unclear
Draft chat:
the more I investigate these guys the more I like:
Miles Bridges: Izzo/Michigan State pedigree is significant, kid has a strong personality and a tenacious style, athleticism/strength/lefty-ness all serve him well to overcome lack of ideal length
Lonnie Walker: smart, great kid, great athleticism, length etc., best 2 in the draft, the notion of Ntilikina/Walker growing into an eventual starting backcourt is appealing; the presence of Courtney Lee is not at all worrisome as it relates to Walker, but Hardaway's presence may be enough to force NYK to look away from a 2 at the 9 spot. Unfortunate because I think this kid will ultimately be a top 5 player from this draft.
one the other hand:
Mikal Bridges seems too "low ceiling" to me.
Neither Trae Young nor Collin Sexton are attractive enough.
Wendell Carter and KP would struggle to coexist in today's NBA.
There are two MSU players that are doing anything of value in the NBA right now.
There are two MSU players that are doing anything of value in the NBA right now.
Valentine must not be 1. Terrible pick by the bulls.
I would assume you mean Green and Harris?
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of bad takes in that post, but the most notable may be a Michigan State "pedigree?".
There are two MSU players that are doing anything of value in the NBA right now.
Valentine must not be 1. Terrible pick by the bulls.
I would assume you mean Green and Harris?
That is correct. I suppose you can make an argument for Bryn Forbes.
Either way, lets not pretend that MSU is some NBA factory. A "pedigree" is bullshit.
I would agree with this. On the flip side, I think his defense is a little overrated. He's got lanky arms but is pretty weak and will get pushed around by strong 3s and 4s.
I see him having a better career in the NBA than he did in college.
You can say this about a lot of players...
College there are systems in place
Does every MSU player get compared to Draymond Green intensity? People were saying the same shit about Draymond, gets pretty tired after a while. Draymond is probably the best defender and passing big man in the NBA.
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Izzo coaches, especially for the culture change that NYK need. Watch thew way the Celtics play. Knicks haven't competed in games like that in a while. Miles Bridges plays with a Dray Green like feistiness.
Does every MSU player get compared to Draymond Green intensity? People were saying the same shit about Draymond, gets pretty tired after a while. Draymond is probably the best defender and passing big man in the NBA.
Draymond biggest knock coming in was fat and lazy...he struggled badly his rookie year
I think the Knicks really dodged a bullet last summer. PJax seemed pretty intent on dealing KP. Remember that bizarre interview with Jackson on MSG about dealing KP?
I am thankful and shocked a team didn't take advantage of Phil. I know it sounds like KP didn't want to go to PHX, but if I'm the Suns I'm trading that 4th pick for KP and figuring it out. A core of Booker/KP with all those picks that have moving forward it pretty damn good.
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In comment 13972340 Pep22 said:
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Draymond biggest knock coming in was fat and lazy...he struggled badly his rookie year
This leads to my point, people comp every MSU wing to draymond. "Hes a more athletic draymond" or "better shooting draymond". Odds are probably less than 2% that you are going to get a player better than draymond at 9. Just saying its not a valid barometer.
What makes Walker that much more of a wing than Sexton though? He's 1 inch taller and his wingspan is 2 inches shorter than Sexton. I don't see a difference between who either will be able to guard in the NBA. Walker isn't going to be guarding SFs. Due to handling ability Sexton has a much higher ceiling.
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thinks the Knicks would have dealt KP to Phoenix before last years draft had the Suns relented on the #4 pick.
I think the Knicks really dodged a bullet last summer. PJax seemed pretty intent on dealing KP. Remember that bizarre interview with Jackson on MSG about dealing KP?
I am thankful and shocked a team didn't take advantage of Phil. I know it sounds like KP didn't want to go to PHX, but if I'm the Suns I'm trading that 4th pick for KP and figuring it out. A core of Booker/KP with all those picks that have moving forward it pretty damn good.
I would of traded him if it meant getting haul
THJ for Shump/Koustos/ Cauley Stein or Mason? Knicks take on 2 bad contracts but they expire after next season and get 1 young guy. Kings get shooting and much needed wing.
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not unlike Eric Bledsoe. I'd prefer a wing though. I'd love Walker not if NYK cannot deal THJ for adequate value i.e. Mo Harkless to a) add a wing b) create room at the 2...then Walker unfortunately doesn't make sense.
What makes Walker that much more of a wing than Sexton though? He's 1 inch taller and his wingspan is 2 inches shorter than Sexton. I don't see a difference between who either will be able to guard in the NBA. Walker isn't going to be guarding SFs. Due to handling ability Sexton has a much higher ceiling.
Body type wise, I'd equate Walker to Jrue Holiday and Sexton to Jeff Teague.
THJ for Shump/Koustos/ Cauley Stein or Mason? Knicks take on 2 bad contracts but they expire after next season and get 1 young guy. Kings get shooting and much needed wing.
I'm not so sure I take THJR over Hield or Bogdonovic. Let alone Kings are favorites for Doncic it looks like.
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In comment 13972353 Pep22 said:
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Body type wise, I'd equate Walker to Jrue Holiday and Sexton to Jeff Teague.
? Holiday weighs 20 pounds more than Teague and is 2 inches taller. Holiday has a 7' wingspan like Sexton. The difference between Walker and Sexton weight wise is 2 pounds.
THJ + Thomas for Henson, Snell and Wilson works $ wise.
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In comment 13972367 giantsfan44ab said:
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In comment 13972353 Pep22 said:
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Body type wise, I'd equate Walker to Jrue Holiday and Sexton to Jeff Teague.
? Holiday weighs 20 pounds more than Teague and is 2 inches taller. Holiday has a 7' wingspan like Sexton. The difference between Walker and Sexton weight wise is 2 pounds.
Sexton does NOT have a 7' wing. Its 6'7. Walker's is 6'10.5. Walker also has a great frame to get into the 220 range whereas Sexton will likely always be < 190.
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In comment 13972385 Pep22 said:
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In comment 13972367 giantsfan44ab said:
Sexton does NOT have a 7' wing. Its 6'7. Walker's is 6'10.5. Walker also has a great frame to get into the 220 range whereas Sexton will likely always be < 190.
Google lied. 30 pounds is a lot but Walker does have a good frame.
what was the rest of the offer?
Height w shoes: 6'6.75"
Wingspan: 6'9.5"
Weight: 220
Lonnie Walker:
Height w shoes: 6'4.5"
Wingspan: 6'10.25"
Weight: 196
Collin Sexton:
Height w shoes: 6'1.5"
Wingspan: 6'7.25"
Weight: 183
My issue with Walker is that he's too erratic. He's had big issues on defense, "appears" to be a shooter (has a good shot but inconsistent), lack of advanced ball handling and limited vision. To me he is a prototype 3 and D that is banking on both improved 3 and D to get there. I don't see really high ceiling with him. I see him as Courtney Lee once his skills are more developed.
Why cant he play the 3 or 4?
1) nothing (he's hard at work rehabbing and may have had private discussions w Fizdale)
2) he still has issues w NYK...to the point where, down the road, he might forfeit a lot of $ by not signing an extension and making him a trade candidate
if 2 (let's play along), what might the ransom be? Imagine it is Dallas as a trade partner. Would pick 5 plus a Noah contract dump. --> KP + Noah for Harrison Barnes + # 5 be enough. Would lead to:
C: KOQ, Bamba @ 5
PF: Wendell Carter @ 9
SF: Harrison Barnes
SG: THJ
PG: Ntilikina/Burke
As I look at it, I don't think that is enough from Dallas. Given that, trading KP regardless of his intentions is probably not in the cards.
you're right...I was just brainstorming out loud
Pep22 : 9:50 am : link : reply
Miles Bridges is a well coached, vocal leader who seems to be a very hard worker and his athleticism, strength are major assets.
When dared to shoot by Syracuse, he went 4 for 18. He was excellent against lesser competition - not great against the top teams. Look at the difference between the Bucknell and Cuse games. His woeful shooting was the primary reason they went home.
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okay...forget the pedigree
Pep22 : 9:50 am : link : reply
Miles Bridges is a well coached, vocal leader who seems to be a very hard worker and his athleticism, strength are major assets.
When dared to shoot by Syracuse, he went 4 for 18. He was excellent against lesser competition - not great against the top teams. Look at the difference between the Bucknell and Cuse games. His woeful shooting was the primary reason they went home.
A lot of players struggle shooting in college...
He shot 48 percent for his career, and shot 38 percent from 3...
Maybe taking 1 game is not really fair
He is 6 foot 7 220, he can not play the 3 in the nba? And why cant he play the 4? How many teams play 2 big men?
Tucker last night was playing the 5 for stretches
Had 11 points against Cuse.
btw, I am very optimistic that Troy Williams will be a good part of that mix long term
don't play in that league
Had 11 points against Cuse.
Really?
Duke 19 5 and 4
Notre dame 14 6 and 9
Ohio state 17 and 7
Michigan 19 6 and 5
Indiana 22 and 3
Wisconsin 24 and 7
Michigan again 17 and 7
You were saying about only doing it against bad teama?
How about the last regular season game where he was 3-15 for 10 points?
How about the last regular season game where he was 3-15 for 10 points?
You said he only did it against bad teams, I just gave you games against good teams...
Of course he was going to have some bad games he is 19...
This is a hot take, but I'm fully on board with Trae Young at 9 if he falls. I think he's going to be a dynamic playmaker.
You said he only did it against bad teams, I just gave you games against good teams...
Of course he was going to have some bad games he is 19...
Wisconsin sucked donkey balls last year.
Hi Jon!
Collin Sexton to jeff Teague comparison is awful. Sexton is tough as nails, Teague is all finesse
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:58 am : link : reply
though. He thrived against teams like Houston Baptist, North Florida and Stonybrook, and couldn't muster double digits against Indiana, Minnesota or Northwestern.
I said he thrived in games against iffy competition and struggled in specific games.
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You said he only did it against bad teams, I just gave you games against good teams...
Of course he was going to have some bad games he is 19...
Wisconsin sucked donkey balls last year.
Hi Jon!
I watched that game Wisconsin played well that game and hard...that was the game the Wisconsin point guard popped out his shoulder and then came right back in...
Only reason I added it was because I watched it and knew how hard Wisconsin played
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You said he only did it against bad teams, I just gave you games against good teams...
Of course he was going to have some bad games he is 19...
Wisconsin sucked donkey balls last year.
Hi Jon!
No arguments here.
I dont like what Izzo has been doing the last few years as they have underperformed big time in big 10 and tourney play.
A lot of teams dont play guys based on position. They play guys who have multiple skills. I think Bridges was handcuffed at MSU.
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It isn't just one game..
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:58 am : link : reply
though. He thrived against teams like Houston Baptist, North Florida and Stonybrook, and couldn't muster double digits against Indiana, Minnesota or Northwestern.
I said he thrived in games against iffy competition and struggled in specific games.
So you cherry picked 3 games to make a statement that fit your agenda...
I went against that and showed you how well he played against good teams, including a team twice that went to the national championship game...
Still failing to see how the point you made is valid? You basically called me out for cherry picking and you did the exact same thing
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In comment 13972583 nygiants16 said:
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You said he only did it against bad teams, I just gave you games against good teams...
Of course he was going to have some bad games he is 19...
Wisconsin sucked donkey balls last year.
Hi Jon!
No arguments here.
Happ pull out of the draft yet, like he should?
I dont like what Izzo has been doing the last few years as they have underperformed big time in big 10 and tourney play.
A lot of teams dont play guys based on position. They play guys who have multiple skills. I think Bridges was handcuffed at MSU.
Yup basically was forced to play the 3 in college because Izzo recruited all big men...
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In comment 13972592 dep026 said:
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In comment 13972583 nygiants16 said:
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You said he only did it against bad teams, I just gave you games against good teams...
Of course he was going to have some bad games he is 19...
Wisconsin sucked donkey balls last year.
Hi Jon!
No arguments here.
Happ pull out of the draft yet, like he should?
No, but I think it's a matter of time.
Can you explain to us all how bridges cant play the 3 or 4?
He can't dunk, but who gives a shit. He's a great finisher at the rim, and lets see how good his defense is when he isn't responsible for 80% of his team's offense.
He's not going to be able to guard anyone in the NBA. He could barely even guard anyone in college.
Why cant he play the 3?
And why is his ceiling 7 and 4?
Collin Sexton to jeff Teague comparison is awful. Sexton is tough as nails, Teague is all finesse
The Sexton/Teague comp was about body type only. Reading comprehension.
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This is a hot take, but I'm fully on board with Trae Young at 9 if he falls. I think he's going to be a dynamic playmaker.
He's not going to be able to guard anyone in the NBA. He could barely even guard anyone in college.
He'll never be a plus defender, but with other options on offense he'll be able to put in more effort. He's a great fit next to Frank, and should be a dynamic offensive player. He's an elite shooter and passer. I think Steve Nash is a good comparison, probably better than Steph.
Both Harden and Curry are surrounded by the best defenders in the league. I also think Steph has quickness that Young doesn't have. I guess if the Knicks found stud defenders at the 3 and the 5 they can survive. I think Trae Young is more Trey Burke than steph curry.
For that reason I'd understand it, going for the fences. I personally see Young as a high-level 6th man (IT) but offensively KP-Young PnRs could be killer.
Maybe im also higher on Burke than I should be but Burke at least has a bit more length to help out on defense.
Speaking of trades, heard from a very reliable person that the Knicks and Pelicans had extended talks about Anthony Davis during the 2016-17 season. Sounded like Porzingis, Rose and 2018 1st.
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For that reason I'd understand it, going for the fences. I personally see Young as a high-level 6th man (IT) but offensively KP-Young PnRs could be killer.
Maybe im also higher on Burke than I should be but Burke at least has a bit more length to help out on defense.
I think burke and young are similar, young a little better passer and better 3 point shooter although burke improved that 3 point shot..
Unless you think young can be a superstar I dont see why you add him, you potentially already already have that type of player on the roster and is still young...
Then going to meet lebron after and talk how they can fit together in new york..
Then going to meet lebron after and talk how they can fit together in new york..
"LeBron, our star player will be out for most of the year, but don't worry, we have Lance Thomas. We're definitely an upgrade over the ragtag bunch you have now."
Nah. Your sleeping on the skill. He's a better passer than Curry coming out. He can be a true pg, can shoot, and can create. With Frankie, they have the combo guard that can do a variety of things to make up for Young's potential problems on D.
I love Shea Gilgeous Alexander's game too, but he and Frank aren't a great combo.
The Knicks need some wings that can D up. Frankie and Mikal with KP as rim protector is a good foundation.
Porter would be the dream pick for me but I just can't see him lasting to 9. Sexton definitely has high upside but I just prefer Mikal as an nba prospect.
If they go mikal I want a risky player with the 2nd rounder, take a chance...
I know all 2nd rounders are nothing guaranteed but I am talking no draft stash, no 4 year college player who we know his ceiling...
I know all 2nd rounders are nothing guaranteed but I am talking no draft stash, no 4 year college player who we know his ceiling...
Funny, I was gonna add that if they play it safe with Mikal at #9, I'd like to shoot for the moon with Diallo at #36, if he's there. I agree completely - one safe pick and one gamble. I don't really care which order.
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If they go mikal I want a risky player with the 2nd rounder, take a chance...
I know all 2nd rounders are nothing guaranteed but I am talking no draft stash, no 4 year college player who we know his ceiling...
Funny, I was gonna add that if they play it safe with Mikal at #9, I'd like to shoot for the moon with Diallo at #36, if he's there. I agree completely - one safe pick and one gamble. I don't really care which order.
Hahaha si weird diallo was the guy I was thinking
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Is the preferable Bridges, but since the Knicks are gonna be young and could be without KP for a while, I hope they choose a high ceiling Freshman.
Porter would be the dream pick for me but I just can't see him lasting to 9. Sexton definitely has high upside but I just prefer Mikal as an nba prospect.
Agreed. I think Porter Jr. falling to #9 is the ideal scenario
Are any of those guys superstars? Or have a chance to be stars besides maybe luzma?
You draft a freshman because you hope you have not seen their best ball, with seniors you most likely have
I always got the sense that Hami Diallo has always had the potential to be a lot better than he played at Kentucky. He's an INSANE athlete, but he never seemed to play up to it.
I think Kentucky BIG men are hard to evaluate because Cal doesn't stretch his bigs out. Which is why there were hidden elements to Skal and KAT. I don't see the same issue with guards/wings from UK.
And back to the freshmen debate. Where are the freshmen superstars that are falling back into the draft? The theory that freshmen have higher upside is just that, a theory. And I'm talking about late 1st/2nd round, not the freshmen that are clogging the top 10-15 of draft boards every year.
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I think Kentucky BIG men are hard to evaluate because Cal doesn't stretch his bigs out. Which is why there were hidden elements to Skal and KAT. I don't see the same issue with guards/wings from UK.
And back to the freshmen debate. Where are the freshmen superstars that are falling back into the draft? The theory that freshmen have higher upside is just that, a theory. And I'm talking about late 1st/2nd round, not the freshmen that are clogging the top 10-15 of draft boards every year.
Did I say you would definitely find a superstar? No what I said was if you are going to go with the safe pick in mikal, go with a riskier type player that might fall and see if you get lucky...
And yes taking freshman is absolutely a bigger risk..
Mikal at worst case is a 3 and d guy, there is no risk there in my eyes...
Look at Booker for example, did anyone know he had playmaking ability? No everyone thought he was a spot up shooter because that is all you saw...
Jaren jackson jr is considered a top pick because of his upside, nothing he did in college it is all upside...
Harry Giles was taken in the 1st round because of his upside
NY16 I was talking about the freshmen that fall into the 2nd round. Classifying all of these guys as freshmen and basing it off that I don't think is reflective of the draft process. Guys like Booker aren't who I am referring to. Booker was a surefire lottery pick and was being talked about as high as the 4th-5th pick in some instances. Diallo is not at all that. He wasn't riding the pine behind the harrison twins, he started every game. Couldn't pass, couldn't hit 3s, shitty FT shooter and a non-defender.
There were tangible basketball skills pushing Booker's stock. Same with JJJ (3 blocks a game in 20 mpg, combined with 3 point shooting and freakish athleticism). Diallo's stock is all based on athleticism and HS tape. He wasn't overshadowed by other UK starters like Booker or Bledsoe were.
My point stands: where are all these freshmen falling to the 2nd round that are blowing the NBA out of the water? All the sleepers end up being upper classmen that fell due to age and not strictly basketball ability. Freshman in the 2nd round certainly are bigger risks, but are also lower rewards.
Upper classmen 9 times out of 10 you have seen their best...
I want 1 of the draft picks to be a riskier guy with higher upside, that is all I am saying..
I dont want to "safe" picks
Id call him a poor mans Derrick Williams, who was even more impressive in college.
Same thing with Mikal. Undersized SF.
We need somebody with a dynamic offensive game.
Id call him a poor mans Derrick Williams, who was even more impressive in college.
Same thing with Mikal. Undersized SF.
We need somebody with a dynamic offensive game.
Why cant he play small forward?
And why cant mikal play small forward?
It cant be because they are to big
1. Porter Jr. - if he is there at 6-7 range I would offer, 2020 protected 1st rounder to move up.
2. Sexton
If you cant get either of these guys I would see if Clippers would take 9 and 36 for 12 and 13.
If that trade is not possible then
3. Mikhail Bridges
4. Knox
1. Porter Jr. - if he is there at 6-7 range I would offer, 2020 protected 1st rounder to move up.
2. Sexton
If you cant get either of these guys I would see if Clippers would take 9 and 36 for 12 and 13.
If that trade is not possible then
3. Mikhail Bridges
4. Knox
Hahahahaha he guarded 3s in college and I am sure college 3s are much smaller than nba 3s...
In fact if the Knicks drafted him and started him he would be one of the smallest 3s in the nba starter wise...
But please tell me again how he cant guard 3s because he would be toasted
Link - ( New Window )
It gives you a nice defensive base to. Build around
The Mavs championship team obviously looks like an anomaly but that's kind of how I see the Knicks path to contention. Get lockdown defenders that can shoot and run the offense through KP. PGs and Centers are the two easiest positions to add through FA or through trade.
There is no way you can tell me that you have full confidence he will add a dribble-drive game. I am also not convinced that he has the quicks to guard on the perimeter.
Undersized 4s from college usually dont translate to the pros.
Nobody is saying hes too small to guard 3s. And how dare you question GMen46 after the Mitchell debacle?
Mikal looks to me like a taller Kittles. I am not excited about that at all.
There is no way you can tell me that you have full confidence he will add a dribble-drive game. I am also not convinced that he has the quicks to guard on the perimeter.
Undersized 4s from college usually dont translate to the pros.
Nobody is saying hes too small to guard 3s. And how dare you question GMen46 after the Mitchell debacle?
Mikal looks to me like a taller Kittles. I am not excited about that at all.
He guarded 3s in college and played the 3 in college...
He guarded much smaller players in college and not for nothing he wouldn't be guarding guys smaller than him in the pros...
And so gmen46 guessed right on one player so we should all listen to him? What a joke...
However, the objective should be to swing for the fences, not look for singles and doubles. You don't build a championship team by stockpiling role players.
However, the objective should be to swing for the fences, not look for singles and doubles. You don't build a championship team by stockpiling role players.
Then we view miles bridges completely different...
Mikal I agree he is the safe conservative pick, miles I think is going to surprise a lot of people
Really? What about? Seems like a good kid.
Scoring and character are must-haves for stars, and he has both, a scout texted me. [Porter] maybe ends up a star but its unobvious now. Last player everyone knew [would shine] out of high school was [Anthony Davis].
I gave you respect for calling out Mitchell but I am not going to bow down to you because you got 1 right...
When you look at recent comps to him, he's too much of a tweener to find a role in the NBA.
When you look at recent comps to him, he's too much of a tweener to find a role in the NBA.
everyone is a tweener in the nba now, everyone plays positionless basketball...
last night the the rockets were playing ariza and tucker as big men...
draymond green is a starting center...
teams are going smaller and faster..
and there is zero evidence he cant play the 3, he is 6 foot 7 and 220, he absolutely can play the 3
good passer, almost averaged 3 assists his 2 years at michigan state...
improved mid range, and i think his 3 point shot will be fine in the nba, neess to inprove but i think he can do it...
versatile player, can pkay the 3 or 4 with kp at the 5 against certain teams...
obviously very good athlete..
hard worker, gym rat, got to michigan state at 240, weighed in at the combine 220 with 5 percent body fat...
good head on his shoulders, was a leader on his team as a sopjmore...
ubder utilized in my opinion at michigan state, they had a lot of big man, i thknk would of showed more in a more up tempo offense...
fizdale wants positionless and free flowing offense, i think he fits it perfectly
i see a ton of upside with him...
it is why i also like knox...
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does Miles Bridges do well other than jump?
good passer, almost averaged 3 assists his 2 years at michigan state...
improved mid range, and i think his 3 point shot will be fine in the nba, neess to inprove but i think he can do it...
versatile player, can pkay the 3 or 4 with kp at the 5 against certain teams...
obviously very good athlete..
hard worker, gym rat, got to michigan state at 240, weighed in at the combine 220 with 5 percent body fat...
good head on his shoulders, was a leader on his team as a sopjmore...
ubder utilized in my opinion at michigan state, they had a lot of big man, i thknk would of showed more in a more up tempo offense...
fizdale wants positionless and free flowing offense, i think he fits it perfectly
Almost averaged 3 assists? Not giving you credit for that, I'm sorry.
You just named a bunch of non NBA skills and fluff terms and that his shooting needs to improve.
doesnt have to improve that much
The wing-starved Knicks are more likely to to select a wing or a four man. There is a chance Duke's Wendell Carter Jr., or Missouri's Michael Porter Jr. could fall to the Knicks at 9, but that doesn't appear likely. The 6-10 Carter Jr. is projected at No. 7 to the Bulls and the 6-10 Porter Jr. is projected to go to the Cavs at 8, per ESPN.
"Everybody wants Carter and Porter to fall," the source said. "[The Knicks] are looking for a wing, a four, a five, they're not taking a guard. They're not taking a guard."
SNY - ( New Window )
@tankathon
ESPN Mock show had Michael Porter at 15. Back and "teammate" quality concerns expressed. Seems crazy to have him out of the lottery to me. 🤷♂️
Agreed
Not really a fan of his twin brother Miles
Carter didnt stand out at Duke, didnt seem that explosive off the floor, I wouldnt be that excited about him.
How teams view Sexton and Young will be key.