the kid runs his routes, looks the ball in and has as soft a hands as I've seen on many first-round wideouts and that is the bonus side of the position. His legs are like girders and by all accounts picks up the blitz assignments on cue. I'm not nieve enough to sign off on all this hype, but I've watched the kid in HS, college and now with NY and he keeps getting better, he listens to coaching. I use my own evaluation and could care less what the pundits think. I am glad as hell he's with us and wish him gold jackets and rings seen from across eight tables! He is going to have those moments before week one where we as fans are going to say, "did I just see that?" My biggest hope, he makes everyone around him up their game, then we will have something. I've been saying it for eight years and I am by far a PSU fan, I take 'em or leave 'em, but talent is talent and this kid has the goods!
RE: Brandt isn't just a media guy. He was a successful gm for Â
The kid has a ton of tools but let’s let him play a few seasons before we start comparing him to all time greats. This team is not going to win many games this year if he can rush for 850 or more yards then he will have had a very good first year. Most NFL backs take time to gain a feel for the NFL and the team offense maybe two or three years.
Then maybe if he can remain healthy he can get into his prime years in the NFL where he consistently runs for 1100 or more for let’s be generous five to seven years. If he can have that statement season most great backs have 1700 or more once or twice during this period great. He will in all likelihood be a very good player but one great player does not a championship team make. OBJ is a great talent but the Giants are not a great team he got hurt but would this team had won more than five games even with him?
SB will need many new players around him in the years to come then maybe you have a chance to begin the talk about the gold jacket but it’s not a short run it’s a long run to earn the gold. Bo for all his abilities got hurt the great ones remain on the field of play hopefully SB will also. Then you have the other NFL killer FA will he wear blue all his career or will he be another it’s not about the money player no one knows. Just remind him most players never produce to the same numbers when leaving one team for another very few end up with gold jackets. No matter how we as fans think and love the team and players never forget it’s a big business for the owners and players.
The kid has a ton of tools but let’s let him play a few seasons before we start comparing him to all time greats. This team is not going to win many games this year if he can rush for 850 or more yards then he will have had a very good first year. Most NFL backs take time to gain a feel for the NFL and the team offense maybe two or three years.
Then maybe if he can remain healthy he can get into his prime years in the NFL where he consistently runs for 1100 or more for let’s be generous five to seven years. If he can have that statement season most great backs have 1700 or more once or twice during this period great. He will in all likelihood be a very good player but one great player does not a championship team make. OBJ is a great talent but the Giants are not a great team he got hurt but would this team had won more than five games even with him?
SB will need many new players around him in the years to come then maybe you have a chance to begin the talk about the gold jacket but it’s not a short run it’s a long run to earn the gold. Bo for all his abilities got hurt the great ones remain on the field of play hopefully SB will also. Then you have the other NFL killer FA will he wear blue all his career or will he be another it’s not about the money player no one knows. Just remind him most players never produce to the same numbers when leaving one team for another very few end up with gold jackets. No matter how we as fans think and love the team and players never forget it’s a big business for the owners and players.
If 10+ games isn't many then I dont know what is.
I'm not saying GB is right nor discounting media spin Â
But it really could just be a former FO pro and current reporter / analyst with a relatively thoughtful scouting process saying just what he said - this is the best prospect he's graded post-NCAA / pre-NFL
It DOESNT at all mean he's saying he's as good an NFL player as Bo or whoever else. Just that from THIS point after college, this expert would put a huge bet on his success
Why does it have to be anything else when that's a very likely situation? Can't we just like he thinks so and hope it materializes on the field?
The kid has a ton of tools but let’s let him play a few seasons before we start comparing him to all time greats. This team is not going to win many games this year if he can rush for 850 or more yards then he will have had a very good first year. Most NFL backs take time to gain a feel for the NFL and the team offense maybe two or three years.
Then maybe if he can remain healthy he can get into his prime years in the NFL where he consistently runs for 1100 or more for let’s be generous five to seven years. If he can have that statement season most great backs have 1700 or more once or twice during this period great. He will in all likelihood be a very good player but one great player does not a championship team make. OBJ is a great talent but the Giants are not a great team he got hurt but would this team had won more than five games even with him?
.
If there was ever a position where rookies have had high rates of success wouldnt that position be running back? It doesnt gaurantee anything for Barkley but there seem to be endless examples of successful runningbacks who found success in years 1-3.
has completely gone off the deep end. He is good but know they just keep spewing nonsense
Why? It’s called projections. PROJECTIONS. Every single collegiate player entering the pros since the dawn of man has been analyzed, projected, and dissected. The great prospects get talked up. It’s how this shit works. If Brandt didn’t love Barkley as much as he does he wouldn’t say he loved him as much as he does. And why shouldn’t he say it? It’s his opinion.
Why this shit bothers some of you so much I’ll nevrr know. Barkley is universally beloved. This isn’t a bad thing. Every time someone posts a reputable source espousing and praising Barkley’s potential people get the vapors...
Barkley needs to demonstrate that he can block and break tackles Â
I'm assuming skilled players are just that - offensive players at QB/WR/TE/RB.
If so, I'm putting Randy Moss ahead of SB. He was nasty at Marshall; a total freak.
Barry Sanders is still like nothing I've ever seen at the college level. His production makes what SB did look JVish.
Did anybody see Willis McGahee at Miami? My God he was brilliant his last year. I would rank him above SB.
I think he was timed at Miami under 4.3 and as strong as a rhino. There was nothing he couldn't do. And despite the awful knee injury in the Fiesta Bowl, he still went on to have a very, very good pro career.
RE: Barkley needs to demonstrate that he can block and break tackles Â
If either of those things were a question that needed answering, one would think he probably isn't regarded as the best player in the draft almost unanimously. I think it's a fair assumption that they know that already.
I'm assuming skilled players are just that - offensive players at QB/WR/TE/RB.
If so, I'm putting Randy Moss ahead of SB. He was nasty at Marshall; a total freak.
Barry Sanders is still like nothing I've ever seen at the college level. His production makes what SB did look JVish.
Did anybody see Willis McGahee at Miami? My God he was brilliant his last year. I would rank him above SB.
I think he was timed at Miami under 4.3 and as strong as a rhino. There was nothing he couldn't do. And despite the awful knee injury in the Fiesta Bowl, he still went on to have a very, very good pro career.
I'm a Hurricane fan, and McGahee isn't close to Barkley. He didn't have Barkley's agility, and their chops in the passing game aren't in the same stratosphere.
As for Sanders, I don't think anyone can touch Sanders as far as his moves. But he, too, was not as much of a factor in the passing game as one would like. But that is nitpicking, as that guy is the best running back I've ever seen. When a coach thinks you've put a foreign substance on your jersey because you are that hard to tackle, you're that good.
If it isn't the serious, elusive, Leroy Green. I've been waiting a long time for this Leroy. I am sick and tired of hearing these bullshit Superman stories about the wassa legendary Bruce Leroy catching bullets with his teeth.
RE: Nothing would excite me more than his total success Â
I'm a Hurricane fan, and McGahee isn't close to Barkley. He didn't have Barkley's agility, and their chops in the passing game aren't in the same stratosphere.
As for Sanders, I don't think anyone can touch Sanders as far as his moves. But he, too, was not as much of a factor in the passing game as one would like. But that is nitpicking, as that guy is the best running back I've ever seen. When a coach thinks you've put a foreign substance on your jersey because you are that hard to tackle, you're that good.
McGahee was a better between the tackles runner than SB. He ran with controlled violence. He was a 230lb RB running over and around defenders. I agree he didn’t have the bounce, but he was very nimble and could get to top speed pretty quickly. Miami didn’t need to throw as much to their backs with Johnson and Winslow in the mix. Yet, McGahee still averaged 13 ypc on nearly 30 receptions.
Remember, he still got drafted in the first round despite the horrible spaghetti knee injury. That’s how much the NFL still thought of him.
But these are just personal opinions. And I tend not to be a prisoner of the moment, so I just don’t elevate Barkley because we drafted him or he because he seems more unique.
SB is much more versatile than Bo was coming out of college Â
If you are suggesting BJ didn’t catch enough passes, which is true, that’s not his fault. That’s the nature of the game back then, especially Auburn’s philosophy...
Only 7 players surpassed 1100 yards on the ground last year -- and basically all of them had good offensive lines.
I think a lot of you are overestimating the situation he is walking into.
This is a bad team, in a new system with massive questions on the oline and terrible depth at the WR.
This isn't the Cowboys and Elliot 2 years ago, with a fantastic, best in a decade type line.
Darkwa/Gallman combined for 282 carries (17.6 carries/game) and 1227 yards (4.35 yards/carry). If Barkley is the feature back from Day 1 (15+ carries/game) and the OL's run blocking is improved with Solder, Hernandez, and Omameh then 1100+ isn't out of the question. At 15 carries per game, Barkley needs just under 4.6 yards/carry to top 1100 yards.
and his ability to elude tacklers and change direction are superb. Bo was an electrifying runner and unstoppable at the college level, but I think SB has him in those categories as a collegian.
I'm assuming skilled players are just that - offensive players at QB/WR/TE/RB.
If so, I'm putting Randy Moss ahead of SB. He was nasty at Marshall; a total freak.
Barry Sanders is still like nothing I've ever seen at the college level. His production makes what SB did look JVish.
Did anybody see Willis McGahee at Miami? My God he was brilliant his last year. I would rank him above SB.
I think he was timed at Miami under 4.3 and as strong as a rhino. There was nothing he couldn't do. And despite the awful knee injury in the Fiesta Bowl, he still went on to have a very, very good pro career.
These are draft grades, so surely McGahee would've been knocked down a bit by the injury.
Would he have topped the grade Brandt gave Barkley without the injury? I have no idea.
RE: RE: SB is much more versatile than Bo was coming out of college Â
If you are suggesting BJ didn’t catch enough passes, which is true, that’s not his fault. That’s the nature of the game back then, especially Auburn’s philosophy...
Bo was way before my time, but Barkley's route running has received a lot of praise in addition to *just* his hands. Being able to line him up at WR or in the slot can create some significant mismatches that many other RBs wouldn't be able to take advantage of.
not often I find basis to disagree with bw, one of the most knowledgeable fans (many sports) here, but I tend to side with 34, if only because my recollection is that WMcG was built taller, a bit more long, and SB @ 6' is more compact even might be harder for DL and LBs to draw a bead on, especially at second level.
Running between the tackles and putting McGahee over SB, TBD, but, gosh, that's got to be a function in large part of your OL, and good luck SB, difficult to compare, esp. at this point
and his ability to elude tacklers and change direction are superb. Bo was an electrifying runner and unstoppable at the college level, but I think SB has him in those categories as a collegian.
As I've said over and over again - if he was better than Bo or Barry, why was his production not better?? Yes, college production isn't the end-all be-all, but given the ludicrous superlatives shouldn't he have done better if he truly is THAT amazing?
more on the edges and outside, in the passing game, RPO etc while Bo & Barry were classic tailbacks, off tackle, student body left, etc.
Can't say SB was the superior collegiate player, and can't say he'll be the better pro. But, his skillset was different and appears a better fit for the modern game.
from Bo. Bo was also pure straight ahead physical. SB have Bo's size but big thighs and bow legged like Barry Sanders. Stops, starts, plant and change directions at his size is special.
Who came along before then that was better than a guy touched by the hand of God?
I think Gil Brandt has been grading players for the draft since 1960, so Barkley is his highest graded skill player ever, but that doesn't include players who entered the league before 1960. Jim Brown comes to mind.
Franco Harris? He obviously had a very good career and is in the HOF but his skill set wasn’t anywhere near what Barkley’s is. Barkley may not end up having the career that Harris did but that’s not the point of the article. It also helped that Harris played on a team full of HOFers, including the OL.
anyone who thinks his contribution to this particular overall offense ( difference makers in OBJ and Engram) is going to be measured in traditional RB metrics in this particular era of the NFL is going to be disappointed by comparisons to historical figures or players on teams with no other means of significant disruption.
Giving someone with Eli's ability to read and our other weapons a yard of time and space by tilting the scale towards the defense one further step back and one further step spread and one more half a second to read...can have enormous impact and few stats
Franco Harris? He obviously had a very good career and is in the HOF but his skill set wasn’t anywhere near what Barkley’s is. Barkley may not end up having the career that Harris did but that’s not the point of the article. It also helped that Harris played on a team full of HOFers, including the OL.
What Harris did in Pittsburgh is irrelevant. This would be based on what Brandt saw when Harris was at PSU.
I dare anyone to visit youtube and look at Earl Campbell when he was at UT and Herschel Walker when he was at Georgia. Those were different era, but they were tremendous physical specimens who dominated great competition...
RE: RE: SB has more well rounded skills receiving Â
and his ability to elude tacklers and change direction are superb. Bo was an electrifying runner and unstoppable at the college level, but I think SB has him in those categories as a collegian.
As I've said over and over again - if he was better than Bo or Barry, why was his production not better?? Yes, college production isn't the end-all be-all, but given the ludicrous superlatives shouldn't he have done better if he truly is THAT amazing?
Saying college production isn't the end-all be-all, but then turning right around and acting as though it is? To be accurate: Barkley's junior season actually eclipsed Bo's senior season in yards from scrimmage, yards per play and total touchdowns. So, Barkley as a junior outperformed Bo as a senior, if you just compare their first three seasons Barkley absolutely decimates Bo's numbers. There you have it, your "proof" that Saquon Barkely is a better player than Bo Jackson.
So there's that. Of course, if we just need stats why don't we just look up the guys who put up the best numbers each year and not bother with scouting at all and draft accordingly? Why even watch them play?
Then, with regards to Barry Sanders, his junior season is widely regarded as the greatest single collegiate season by any offensive player of all time. So, by that standard, there never was nor there ever will be a better RB prospect than Barry Sanders. Again though, these are prospects ratings, and they grade them in all aspects, so Barkley could be closely rated to Barry in many aspects and eclipse him in other aspects like his size or ability in the passing game.
RE: RE: RE: SB has more well rounded skills receiving Â
Then, with regards to Barry Sanders, his junior season is widely regarded as the greatest single collegiate season by any offensive player of all time. So, by that standard, there never was nor there ever will be a better RB prospect than Barry Sanders. Again though, these are prospects ratings, and they grade them in all aspects, so Barkley could be closely rated to Barry in many aspects and eclipse him in other aspects like his size or ability in the passing game.
Do you know what really makes Sanders' year at Oak State so great? It's the fact that he backed it up by being great in the pros.
He's the greatest runningback I've ever watched play football.
So, I get the backlash against the comparisons, it would be similar to someone comparing a recent draftee to Lawrence Taylor, which would be sacrilege. The thing is, it's not Giant fans making these comparisons. It's Gil Brandt. If Gil Brandt wants to go on record making those comparisons, I'm sure he's fully aware of the context of what he's suggesting, the guy is a walking encyclopedia of football knowledge. Brandt isn't the only one making seemingly outlandish comparisons. Matt Millen compared SB to Sanders as well as Marshall Faulk. Lance Zuerlein who writes the NFL.com capsules/pro player comparisons. John Brenkus, the host of sports science compared him athletically to Barry Sanders. Anonymous scouts in Bob McGinn's draft preview referring to him as a "big Barry Sanders". Anthony "booger" McFarland calling him the best running back since Sanders. You could keep going, but the point is there are a lot off football people heaping all sorts of high level praise Barkley's way, these aren't isolated statements. The difference with Barkely and all these other recent high level prospects, is they kept comparing those RBs with Adrian Peterson, saying "the best since Peterson". To have this many people skip right by Peterson, Faulk, Tomlinson etc and go right to Barry is pretty remarkable.
He's the greatest runningback I've ever watched play football.
So, I get the backlash against the comparisons, it would be similar to someone comparing a recent draftee to Lawrence Taylor, which would be sacrilege. The thing is, it's not Giant fans making these comparisons. It's Gil Brandt. If Gil Brandt wants to go on record making those comparisons, I'm sure he's fully aware of the context of what he's suggesting, the guy is a walking encyclopedia of football knowledge. Brandt isn't the only one making seemingly outlandish comparisons. Matt Millen compared SB to Sanders as well as Marshall Faulk. Lance Zuerlein who writes the NFL.com capsules/pro player comparisons. John Brenkus, the host of sports science compared him athletically to Barry Sanders. Anonymous scouts in Bob McGinn's draft preview referring to him as a "big Barry Sanders". Anthony "booger" McFarland calling him the best running back since Sanders. You could keep going, but the point is there are a lot off football people heaping all sorts of high level praise Barkley's way, these aren't isolated statements. The difference with Barkely and all these other recent high level prospects, is they kept comparing those RBs with Adrian Peterson, saying "the best since Peterson". To have this many people skip right by Peterson, Faulk, Tomlinson etc and go right to Barry is pretty remarkable.
I don't want to give the impression that I find the comparison to Sanders outrageous. I absolutely don't. And I wouldn't expect a comparison to AP because the running styles are not similar. AP was down hill, hard, one cut, punishment.
SB is more about avoiding the hit with super-natural quicks, stops on a dime, spins, multiple cuts, instant acceleration, etc. Very, very similar to Sanders.
So that's what this really is - a stylistic comparison.
But where it starts to get murky is when we compare ACTUAL production and consistency. So while SB does have the style, and again that is on the mark, he really is not in the same universe with Sanders on a game to game and consistency basis.
Barkley played one more game than Sanders and had nearly 1,600 yards more! Sanders "worst" game was "only" 154 yards on 25 carries against Missouri. He had four 300+ games.
I mean, the numbers are just insane...and that was when the Big 8 was still very good with Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas.
when you say "1600 yards less" I assume you are talking about their JR seasons only? And only rushing? Because otherwise there's nothing close to that:
when you say "1600 yards less" I assume you are talking about their JR seasons only? And only rushing? Because otherwise there's nothing close to that:
if so, why wouldn't Ty Detmer have been the best QB prospect of all time when he came out? When his college career ended he held the NCAA all time records for the following:
Attempts, completions, passing yards, total yards, TD's (passing only), TD's (total), and passer rating.
Why did he fall all the way to the ninth round? Because he was considered too short to be successful in the NFL, for starters.
When discussing grades don't be fooled into thinking that college productivity is all that matters. Grades incorporate a ton of things, including production, athleticism, football IQ, leadership ability, marketability, general intelligence, citizenship, attitude, effort, consistency, etc.
We have now heard at least two professionals say that he's received historically high grades. Does that mean he won't bust? Of course not. It just means that a lot of pros understand why he was selected so high. Every player has bust potential.
Sanders played so long ago and the game has changed so much that Â
It's likely Sanders received higher grades for his rushing ability. But Barkley likely received higher grades for his receiving and maybe even for his pass protection.
Not to mention that Barkley received top notch grades for his work ethic and character (don't know how Sanders was viewed in these cats coming out).
anyone who thinks his contribution to this particular overall offense ( difference makers in OBJ and Engram) is going to be measured in traditional RB metrics in this particular era of the NFL is going to be disappointed by comparisons to historical figures or players on teams with no other means of significant disruption.
Giving someone with Eli's ability to read and our other weapons a yard of time and space by tilting the scale towards the defense one further step back and one further step spread and one more half a second to read...can have enormous impact and few stats
IMO, that is how I think his skills will be utilized and how he will measure in the future. The only thing that he will care about is the number of Super Bowls he wins. That is the ultimate goal. I don't thinks SB cares about stats.
and character. I've seen the videos of Barkley power cleaning and squatting, the funny thing is I remember seeing video of Barry Sanders putting crazy weight-room numbers way back when. Sanders in no rush for glory - ( New Window )
Gil Brandt, a very reputable source, makes this proclamation and all the SB-for-Instant-HoF-Induction-Club-Members just fawn all over themselves in delight.
But then when others start reminding these members of what other great skill players did the move is "oh, well, it's too hard to compare eras. So let's trying to..."
I mentioned higher up in this thread that Randy Moss was a better skilled player in college than Barkley. He was from outer space:
that the reaction of fans to SB is fascinating to me. We all know that he could be the next Barry Sanders or the next Ki-Jana Carter. But we're all fans. Why wouldn't we all be hopeful at this point that he's going to be Sanders?
And what's with the threats? I've read stuff like "he'd better get at least 1200 yds rushing and 800 yds receiving with 12 TD's...". What's up with that?
I'm not in psychology, but I would love to hear what a true psychologist would say about the things said in these scenarios. My own pop-psychology would say we have some stubborn people, some angry people, some delusional people, and others. It seems like the balance of irrational to rational reactions is decidedly tipped in the wrong direction, but perhaps that's because rational people don't get too involved in this stuff. Maybe that's the fanatical part of being a fan coming out in us.
How is that a threat? It's simply observing that if the hype is this hyperbolic and over the top, then the production should be commensurate with the hype. People aren't just saying he'll be a star RB, they're saying he's the greatest skill position prospect ever! Touched by the hand of God! Shoo-in for Canton!
Well, if that's true, then we should see something truly extraordinary from him, no?
that the reaction of fans to SB is fascinating to me. We all know that he could be the next Barry Sanders or the next Ki-Jana Carter. But we're all fans. Why wouldn't we all be hopeful at this point that he's going to be Sanders?
Most are in that last sentence category. It's this instant canonization by quite a few.
And when your GM comes out saying a player has been "touched by the hand of God, well, it does start a fire.
Personally, I think that reflects very poorly on Gettleman, and I hope Barkley doesn't feel too much pressure and tries to hard...
Barkley is/was a much better receiver than Sanders coming out.
You don't know that because Oak State wasn't a throwing team. And, of course, the eras are different.
Even if you want to assume that, Barkley almost certainly still had a higher receiving grade since he had demonstrated his receiving ability and therefore its not unreasonable to think his overall grade as a RB (combining rushing, receiving, intangibles, etc) was higher.
Even if you want to assume that, Barkley almost certainly still had a higher receiving grade since he had demonstrated his receiving ability and therefore its not unreasonable to think his overall grade as a RB (combining rushing, receiving, intangibles, etc) was higher.
I hear you.
Just a quick compare and contrast, I'd say this:
Better runner: Sanders +
Better receiver: Barkley
Intangibles: dead even
Special teams: Sanders -
when you say "1600 yards less" I assume you are talking about their JR seasons only? And only rushing? Because otherwise there's nothing close to that:
Even if you want to assume that, Barkley almost certainly still had a higher receiving grade since he had demonstrated his receiving ability and therefore its not unreasonable to think his overall grade as a RB (combining rushing, receiving, intangibles, etc) was higher.
I hear you.
Just a quick compare and contrast, I'd say this:
Better runner: Sanders +
Better receiver: Barkley
Intangibles: dead even
Special teams: Sanders -
Sanders caught 350 passes in his career for near 3000 yards in a different era. I don't think you can so breezily assume Sanders is not an equal as a receiver.
Sanders caught 350 passes in his career for near 3000 yards in a different era. I don't think you can so breezily assume Sanders is not an equal as a receiver.
Well, that certainly helps knowing that now. But I’m trying to be fair from a standpoint of what I saw in Sanders at Oak St, and in conjunction with his receiving stats then...
How is that a threat? It's simply observing that if the hype is this hyperbolic and over the top, then the production should be commensurate with the hype. People aren't just saying he'll be a star RB, they're saying he's the greatest skill position prospect ever! Touched by the hand of God! Shoo-in for Canton!
Well, if that's true, then we should see something truly extraordinary from him, no?
You have taken a very weird stance on Barkley simply because you didn’t want a RB. Now you will hate him for the rest of time. We all know how stubborn you are in your pursuit to be “right”. I agree with most of your posts, you’re a bright guy but you sure dig in when you’re set on something.
The obsession that the anti RB crowd has with innocent comments made by Gettleman are absolutely hysterical. Had they drafted the QB all of you wanted and he said the same thing you’d all say “yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about! That’s conviction!”. But he said it about a player you didn’t want so now Barkley has to be the best RB ever on the planet or else! I’m not sure what the or else exactly means though. Or else what?
about Barkley's running style is Gail Sayers. Go back and look at old tapes of Sayers, he too wasn't a small guy, but ran like a scat back. SB is potentially one of the best pass receiving backs ever. He's very natural at it and you can bet he will be majorly featured by Shurmur. He an Odell will make each other even more dangerous.
The obsession that the anti RB crowd has with innocent comments made by Gettleman are absolutely hysterical. Had they drafted the QB all of you wanted and he said the same thing you’d all say “yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about! That’s conviction!”. But he said it about a player you didn’t want so now Barkley has to be the best RB ever on the planet or else! I’m not sure what the or else exactly means though. Or else what?
Innocent comments are: "we think he has great upside...", "We are excited to have added such a wonderful talent...", "Barkley is going to bring many dimensions to our offense...", "Saquon has the type of character we look for...", etc, etc.
Instead, we got something so off the wall from Gettleman - "he's been touched by the hand of God" - that this kid is now under tremendous pressure to instantly produce at a pro bowl level. Gettleman has laid down the gauntlet with this pick and his idea of what a high pick should be. Not those of us who take a more reasonable, measured approach...
The obsession that the anti RB crowd has with innocent comments made by Gettleman are absolutely hysterical. Had they drafted the QB all of you wanted and he said the same thing you’d all say “yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about! That’s conviction!”. But he said it about a player you didn’t want so now Barkley has to be the best RB ever on the planet or else! I’m not sure what the or else exactly means though. Or else what?
Innocent comments are: "we think he has great upside...", "We are excited to have added such a wonderful talent...", "Barkley is going to bring many dimensions to our offense...", "Saquon has the type of character we look for...", etc, etc.
Instead, we got something so off the wall from Gettleman - "he's been touched by the hand of God" - that this kid is now under tremendous pressure to instantly produce at a pro bowl level. Gettleman has laid down the gauntlet with this pick and his idea of what a high pick should be. Not those of us who take a more reasonable, measured approach...
Good lord. Gettleman comments are only as harmful as you allow them to be. Guy said like YOU are making this a huge deal. Because you didn’t want Barkley. When you start to pick apart every little statement that a GM makes that just took a guy in the first round, you’re looking for a reason to be outraged. Give it a rest. Touched by the hand of God. You really give a shit that he said this? Your priorities are all kind of messed up. A GM using hyperbole has your panties all in a bunch becayou are looking for a reason to hate the player that you didn’t want. And that says MUCH more about you tha. It does the GM. It’s embarassing that fans are already ready to pounce on a guy that by all accounts is a fantastic human being. Sometimes I’m ashamed to be a Giants fan and it has nothing to do with the team. The fans fucking suck. Only in NY would this even be an issue. Freakin clown show fans. Let’s just be outraged!
Those like you taking a more reasonable, measured approach. You have got to be kidding me. You have the pitchforks out and are ready to pounce if Barkley doesn’t end up in the HOF because of some comments made by the GM about the player he loves, That’s measured and reasonable?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Those like you taking a more reasonable, measured approach. You have got to be kidding me. You have the pitchforks out and are ready to pounce if Barkley doesn’t end up in the HOF because of some comments made by the GM about the player he loves, That’s measured and reasonable?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Who has the pitchforks out? You seem to confuse having tempered expectations for a rookie about to join an awful team, with an unproven line, in a brand new system with pitchforks.
There's plenty chance Barkley just won't be that good off the bat. Lots of rookies aren't. Lots of high picks bust.
You jump down everyone's throat on every thread. What are your expectations of him?
The obsession that the anti RB crowd has with innocent comments made by Gettleman are absolutely hysterical. Had they drafted the QB all of you wanted and he said the same thing you’d all say “yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about! That’s conviction!”. But he said it about a player you didn’t want so now Barkley has to be the best RB ever on the planet or else! I’m not sure what the or else exactly means though. Or else what?
Innocent comments are: "we think he has great upside...", "We are excited to have added such a wonderful talent...", "Barkley is going to bring many dimensions to our offense...", "Saquon has the type of character we look for...", etc, etc.
Instead, we got something so off the wall from Gettleman - "he's been touched by the hand of God" - that this kid is now under tremendous pressure to instantly produce at a pro bowl level. Gettleman has laid down the gauntlet with this pick and his idea of what a high pick should be. Not those of us who take a more reasonable, measured approach...
Those like you taking a more reasonable, measured approach. You have got to be kidding me. You have the pitchforks out and are ready to pounce if Barkley doesn’t end up in the HOF because of some comments made by the GM about the player he loves, That’s measured and reasonable?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
easy does it..this guy isn't pouncing, just going a bit further than you want.
Those like you taking a more reasonable, measured approach. You have got to be kidding me. You have the pitchforks out and are ready to pounce if Barkley doesn’t end up in the HOF because of some comments made by the GM about the player he loves, That’s measured and reasonable?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Who has the pitchforks out? You seem to confuse having tempered expectations for a rookie about to join an awful team, with an unproven line, in a brand new system with pitchforks.
There's plenty chance Barkley just won't be that good off the bat. Lots of rookies aren't. Lots of high picks bust.
You jump down everyone's throat on every thread. What are your expectations of him?
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit I see. I have tempered expectations for him. THATS MY POINT! Certain posters on this board are taking random comments the GM made and using it as a prop to suggest that Barkley had better run for 2500 yards in his first yearto back up the GM comments. I’m actdefending Barkley here. Not because I think he’s going to the HOF. But because others DO expect that now. Based on a stupid hand of God comment by the GM. Anything else and he’s a failure in their book. Not sure how the hell you came up with it being me that expects him to break records, I never said that anywhere.
Those like you taking a more reasonable, measured approach. You have got to be kidding me. You have the pitchforks out and are ready to pounce if Barkley doesn’t end up in the HOF because of some comments made by the GM about the player he loves, That’s measured and reasonable?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Who has the pitchforks out? You seem to confuse having tempered expectations for a rookie about to join an awful team, with an unproven line, in a brand new system with pitchforks.
There's plenty chance Barkley just won't be that good off the bat. Lots of rookies aren't. Lots of high picks bust.
You jump down everyone's throat on every thread. What are your expectations of him?
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit I see. I have tempered expectations for him. THATS MY POINT! Certain posters on this board are taking random comments the GM made and using it as a prop to suggest that Barkley had better run for 2500 yards in his first yearto back up the GM comments. I’m actdefending Barkley here. Not because I think he’s going to the HOF. But because others DO expect that now. Based on a stupid hand of God comment by the GM. Anything else and he’s a failure in their book. Not sure how the hell you came up with it being me that expects him to break records, I never said that anywhere.
I have no expectations really. Not sure what to expect. Just sit back and hope for the best, that’s all I can do. I wanted a QB just like most people but what’s done is done and I see no reason to look back. And it drives me absolutely insane when the same people on this board keep bringing up obviously goofy comments from the GM and and holding them against him, and more importantly Barkley, and acting as if Barkley doesn’t make the HOF in year one he’s an utter failure because of the coomensts the GM made. The comments were harmless. Except To those that WANT to find something to bitch about.
Those like you taking a more reasonable, measured approach. You have got to be kidding me. You have the pitchforks out and are ready to pounce if Barkley doesn’t end up in the HOF because of some comments made by the GM about the player he loves, That’s measured and reasonable?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Well, that was an interesting read.
I’ve been a PSU fan for 30+ years, so if anybody is a fan of Barkley, and hopes he kills it, it’s me.
My position has been clear for months - I didn’t think the best use of the #2 pick was selecting a RB. So I think the draft was mismanaged.
This may be the most pivotal pick in the history of the organization. So I’m going to criticize the pick, particularly when it was a very good class of QBs when we have an ancient one.
And yes - I’m going to point out Gettlemen’s dumb ass remark. And mainly because it was a dumb ass remark.
There’s a much greater chance one or more of Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold and Allen bust than that Barkley busts.
We took a “good” QB in the 4th round.
We missed a great opportunity to take a great QB in the first round.
Barkley may have been the best RB in the draft but I refuse to believe he’s a better football player than Minkah Fitzpatrick or Derwin James. Those guys are tremendous game changing prospects.
get a very special player who performs at a high level immediately. It usually seems to happen to other teams i.e. Bo, Dickerson, Sanders, Pederson et al..For us, the last IMMEDIATE success at a superstar level was of course LT in ‘81.
Yes, it’s possible, that 37 years later we actually got that “from the get-go” super performer. TBD of course, but I am embracing that tantalizing and rare opportunity to experience this wholeheartedly
RE: Sometimes, albeit rarely, a team is fortunate enough to Â
get a very special player who performs at a high level immediately. It usually seems to happen to other teams i.e. Bo, Dickerson, Sanders, Pederson et al..For us, the last IMMEDIATE success at a superstar level was of course LT in ‘81.
Yes, it’s possible, that 37 years later we actually got that “from the get-go” super performer. TBD of course, but I am embracing that tantalizing and rare opportunity to experience this wholeheartedly
I think it's been slightly more recent than that. Unless you don't consider 91 receptions for 1305 yards and 12 TDs to be a "super performer."
RE: RE: Sometimes, albeit rarely, a team is fortunate enough to Â
get a very special player who performs at a high level immediately. It usually seems to happen to other teams i.e. Bo, Dickerson, Sanders, Pederson et al..For us, the last IMMEDIATE success at a superstar level was of course LT in ‘81.
Yes, it’s possible, that 37 years later we actually got that “from the get-go” super performer. TBD of course, but I am embracing that tantalizing and rare opportunity to experience this wholeheartedly
I think it's been slightly more recent than that. Unless you don't consider 91 receptions for 1305 yards and 12 TDs to be a "super performer."
Pressure and attention for a young player can impact them. It's silly to ignore it -- hopefully Barkley proves to be the anomaly. He'll need to be, because in this day of constant contact and media, every bad day he has on the field will be met with a flurry of hand of God memes and headlines.
If Manning's play looks like last year and the rookies look sharp, Barkley is going to shoulder a little bit of that as well.
It's not fair or reasonable, but it's likely. Wanting to tone down the hyperbole isn't a bitter vendetta from those who wanted a QB, it's just practical. Read basically any account from a bust and the expectations from the media, management and fans will be in there.
If you look at it that way, what you're saying is don't draft a guy unless he's can't miss, and there's no such thing as can't miss. We have years of documented proof that "can't miss" drafted players miss all the time. Fans play the hindsight game all the time in the draft, but many players that went high and failed were sold as can't miss at the time.
SB never hyped himself or placed his talents on a pedestal as far as I can tell. Confident? of course, all great players are (and not so great players). He goes out and does his job super well by all (most) accounts. He is NOT THE ONE who is hyping himself, it’s the media and fans. He seems to have his head on his shoulders and seems to be extremely focused.
So expectations, etc., for this guy is again, media and fan created. Given he probably has received incredible accolades since pee-wee football, I strongly doubt he’ll give two shitz about what is poured upon him, imo
Saying you refuse to believe is not so much direct as it is being obtuse, but carry on.
Did you even read what I wrote? I said Fitz and James are great prospects and just as good at their positions as SB is at his. I'm not sure why that would fall under obtuse.
Now, I know that doesn't fit the narrative that comes out of Jints Central or the mainstream sports media - sources that you and most buy as the truth - but I think it's very defensible.
Sure, it's the media and the fans....and Dave Gettleman Â
Saying you refuse to believe is not so much direct as it is being obtuse, but carry on.
Did you even read what I wrote? I said Fitz and James are great prospects and just as good at their positions as SB is at his. I'm not sure why that would fall under obtuse.
Now, I know that doesn't fit the narrative that comes out of Jints Central or the mainstream sports media - sources that you and most buy as the truth - but I think it's very defensible.
So let me get this straight. You have been pounding your fist on the table since the draft because you don’t take a RB with the 2nd pick. Because that’s what you’ve been conditioned to believe. Yet, you’re perfectly fine taking a safety at 2, even though almost no one on the planet ranks those guys as better prospects than Barkley? But you randomly say they are, so it must be true or everyone else is just bowing to the media. Got it.
So let me get this straight. You have been pounding your fist on the table since the draft because you don’t take a RB with the 2nd pick. Because that’s what you’ve been conditioned to believe. Yet, you’re perfectly fine taking a safety at 2, even though almost no one on the planet ranks those guys as better prospects than Barkley? But you randomly say they are, so it must be true or everyone else is just bowing to the media. Got it.
Nice try. "Conditioned to believe..." - now that's a good one. By whom?
I never said take a S. I said those players were just as good at their position as SB.
I didn't write anything complicated to give you any indication that that was what I was saying. Pretty simple stuff - subject, verb, direct object.
In other words, you are completely making up your narrative for whatever reason...
RE: RE: He was the best player in the draft, period Â
If you look at it that way, what you're saying is don't draft a guy unless he's can't miss, and there's no such thing as can't miss. We have years of documented proof that "can't miss" drafted players miss all the time. Fans play the hindsight game all the time in the draft, but many players that went high and failed were sold as can't miss at the time.
I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying you take the best player available and you shouldn’t reach for a need.
And I don’t see how SB busts unless he is injured. He’s just that good of a player.
Did you even read what I wrote? I said Fitz and James are great prospects and just as good at their positions as SB is at his. I'm not sure why that would fall under obtuse.
We can find several sources that have Barkley as one of the highest rated RB's EVER. Several saying he's a generational player and likely the best player in the draft.
How exactly would that translate to two guys being just as good at their positions?
By the way, does the incompetent Jints Central even have control over Brandt and the mainstream media?
Really tough to keep positioning Jints central as equal parts clueless and manipulative, but you keep trying.
We can find several sources that have Barkley as one of the highest rated RB's EVER. Several saying he's a generational player and likely the best player in the draft.
How exactly would that translate to two guys being just as good at their positions?
It's just opinion. It's not like I said a P, K, or LS were in Barkley's football class. So I disagree with the conventional wisdom on SB. Great college player, yes, but I think the projections for him are too big - like so many other generational types from the past.
James and Fitzpatrick are outstanding players. I'm not making some wild-ass stretch here. These guys could be instant pro bowl players. But that would require that you watch them play.
Fitzpatrick played all 4 DB positions for Saban and he played monster. There is nothing he can't do as a DB. Saban calls him one of the best defenders he's ever had. Good enough for me from a defensive mastermind who isn't quick to dole out such high praise.
Do you even know who James is? Have you seen him play? If you aren't impressed by his play and measurables than I don't know what to tell you about what a great prospect looks like. He will be a great NFL safety - and instantly. San Diego got the steal of the draft for a position that needed.
RE: Sure, it's the media and the fans....and Dave Gettleman Â
DG made one hyperbolic comment. The media and fans have been incessant. DG’s other comments about SB have all been in response to reporters’ questions..
RE: RE: Sure, it's the media and the fans....and Dave Gettleman Â
DG made one hyperbolic comment. The media and fans have been incessant. DG’s other comments about SB have all been in response to reporters’ questions..
He's made more than one. But this one was outrageous; and frankly it made him look stupid.
I think he's got more pressure than Barkley. Because if Barkley isn't the second coming of Brown/Sanders/Walter/etc this is going to be a helluva albatross to deal with...
If he doesn’t turn into one of the top three greatest running backs of all time? FFS man. This place has lost its damned mind. Again, you’re just looking for reasons to be outraged because you didn’t like the pick.
Top 3 RB in the history of the sport or it’s an epic failure. Jeezus
If he doesn’t turn into one of the top three greatest running backs of all time? FFS man. This place has lost its damned mind. Again, you’re just looking for reasons to be outraged because you didn’t like the pick.
Top 3 RB in the history of the sport or it’s an epic failure. Jeezus
Whatever.
I'm really not outraged. I'm making an argument. You're applying whatever tone of voice you want to hear.
If you can't recognize Gettleman has bet a lot on Barkley you don't know how football works.
He's the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL day one. Sam Darnold for reference is the 28th highest paid QB.
He's the highest selected running back in some time. He's going to a team with an iconic vet QB looking for his last stand.
When Gettleman virtually says he's perfect in his post-draft comments, that's a pretty decent bet.
Read the posts on this and other threads on what fans expect his numbers to be.
Are you addressing me?
Howdy buddy! Nope, just the general "you," which is always dangerous.
My (very small) fear is if Barkley isn't good out of the gate, he's going to get crushed. Crushed in the media, the fans, social media etc.
I like Gettleman, but his post-draft comments felt self-indulgent for my taste. I don't want the kid to be feel like a failure if he doesn't succeed right away. I think the team is as bad as it showed last year and I am not banking on anyone showing much for a while. And I don't want that to mess with Barkley's head.
Why does everyone keep bringing up he’s the 4 th Â
Highest paid rb? When the position basically gets paid peanuts. In the next few years when backs like gurley Elliot and fournette get their new deals the price will skyrocket. The problem will be when Barkley is up for his second contract the market will be set pretty high.
On a side note Brandt had Hernandez as his 15th best player this year. I’m really looking forward to see him play
If you can't recognize Gettleman has bet a lot on Barkley you don't know how football works.
He's the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL day one. Sam Darnold for reference is the 28th highest paid QB.
He's the highest selected running back in some time. He's going to a team with an iconic vet QB looking for his last stand.
When Gettleman virtually says he's perfect in his post-draft comments, that's a pretty decent bet.
Read the posts on this and other threads on what fans expect his numbers to be.
Are you addressing me?
Howdy buddy! Nope, just the general "you," which is always dangerous.
My (very small) fear is if Barkley isn't good out of the gate, he's going to get crushed. Crushed in the media, the fans, social media etc.
I like Gettleman, but his post-draft comments felt self-indulgent for my taste. I don't want the kid to be feel like a failure if he doesn't succeed right away. I think the team is as bad as it showed last year and I am not banking on anyone showing much for a while. And I don't want that to mess with Barkley's head.
I thin SB is mentally strong and can handle it just fine if he has a slow start. Also I think we are much better than they showed last year before the additions. I think the biggest issue was coaching/leadership. I think the players saw through all the bs and that’s when the trouble began. Where I think we will be in trouble this year is with depth thanks to several years of piss poor drafts
Fitzpatrick played all 4 DB positions for Saban and he played monster. There is nothing he can't do as a DB. Saban calls him one of the best defenders he's ever had. Good enough for me from a defensive mastermind who isn't quick to dole out such high praise.
Do you even know who James is? Have you seen him play? If you aren't impressed by his play and measurables than I don't know what to tell you about what a great prospect looks like. He will be a great NFL safety - and instantly. San Diego got the steal of the draft for a position that needed.
It seems that you are intentionally being obtuse to not see the difference between two very good players and one that MANY people have said is generational and the majority of whom has said was the best player in the draft.
I happen to think Chubb is a great player too. That doesn't mean that somehow devalues Barkley.
But again - the underlying issue is if you don't try to make these preposterous parallels then you can't throw shade on "Jints Central", and that's the bottom line you keep trying to gloss over.
It seems that you are intentionally being obtuse to not see the difference between two very good players and one that MANY people have said is generational and the majority of whom has said was the best player in the draft.
It was a serious question, actually. You are the same guy who thought Mariotta played for U of Hawaii. So I'm not assuming anything.
RE: Why does everyone keep bringing up he’s the 4 th Â
Highest paid rb? When the position basically gets paid peanuts.
That's really more a function of the league moving away from paying runningbacks specifically to drive down salaries. The average runningback gets peanuts. Players like Leveon Bell, Adrian Peterson, and eventually Elliott will easily be 12-14m cap hits.
I still have no idea why we decided to make J. Stewart the fifth-largest salary cap burden in football.
Dave felt the same way Sayres was he guy that came to mind in Barkley Â
The guy that comes to my mind
Dave on the UWS : 5/24/2018 8:12 pm : link : reply
about Barkley's running style is Gail Sayers. Go back and look at old tapes of Sayers, he too wasn't a small guy, but ran like a scat back. SB is potentially one of the best pass receiving backs ever. He's very natural at it and you can bet he will be majorly featured by Shurmur. He an Odell will make each other even more dangerous.
It reminds me of a guy hooked to a joy stick when he gets in the open field he makes subtle moves that you almost don't pick them up and niether do the defenders the next thing you know he is by you ..
75-800-7 receiving.
Great blitz pickups.
I'd be jumping for joy!!!
We need more dorgan and a fuckload less dragon.
Hopefully, one day we can say, there is only one SB.....
We need more dorgan and a fuckload less dragon.
LOL
In fairness, those three decades ended three decades ago.
I'll be rooting for Barkley from my nose to my toes, but I don't Brandt's opinion to validate it.
Then maybe if he can remain healthy he can get into his prime years in the NFL where he consistently runs for 1100 or more for let’s be generous five to seven years. If he can have that statement season most great backs have 1700 or more once or twice during this period great. He will in all likelihood be a very good player but one great player does not a championship team make. OBJ is a great talent but the Giants are not a great team he got hurt but would this team had won more than five games even with him?
SB will need many new players around him in the years to come then maybe you have a chance to begin the talk about the gold jacket but it’s not a short run it’s a long run to earn the gold. Bo for all his abilities got hurt the great ones remain on the field of play hopefully SB will also. Then you have the other NFL killer FA will he wear blue all his career or will he be another it’s not about the money player no one knows. Just remind him most players never produce to the same numbers when leaving one team for another very few end up with gold jackets. No matter how we as fans think and love the team and players never forget it’s a big business for the owners and players.
Then maybe if he can remain healthy he can get into his prime years in the NFL where he consistently runs for 1100 or more for let’s be generous five to seven years. If he can have that statement season most great backs have 1700 or more once or twice during this period great. He will in all likelihood be a very good player but one great player does not a championship team make. OBJ is a great talent but the Giants are not a great team he got hurt but would this team had won more than five games even with him?
SB will need many new players around him in the years to come then maybe you have a chance to begin the talk about the gold jacket but it’s not a short run it’s a long run to earn the gold. Bo for all his abilities got hurt the great ones remain on the field of play hopefully SB will also. Then you have the other NFL killer FA will he wear blue all his career or will he be another it’s not about the money player no one knows. Just remind him most players never produce to the same numbers when leaving one team for another very few end up with gold jackets. No matter how we as fans think and love the team and players never forget it’s a big business for the owners and players.
If 10+ games isn't many then I dont know what is.
But it really could just be a former FO pro and current reporter / analyst with a relatively thoughtful scouting process saying just what he said - this is the best prospect he's graded post-NCAA / pre-NFL
It DOESNT at all mean he's saying he's as good an NFL player as Bo or whoever else. Just that from THIS point after college, this expert would put a huge bet on his success
Why does it have to be anything else when that's a very likely situation? Can't we just like he thinks so and hope it materializes on the field?
Then maybe if he can remain healthy he can get into his prime years in the NFL where he consistently runs for 1100 or more for let’s be generous five to seven years. If he can have that statement season most great backs have 1700 or more once or twice during this period great. He will in all likelihood be a very good player but one great player does not a championship team make. OBJ is a great talent but the Giants are not a great team he got hurt but would this team had won more than five games even with him?
.
If there was ever a position where rookies have had high rates of success wouldnt that position be running back? It doesnt gaurantee anything for Barkley but there seem to be endless examples of successful runningbacks who found success in years 1-3.
Why? It’s called projections. PROJECTIONS. Every single collegiate player entering the pros since the dawn of man has been analyzed, projected, and dissected. The great prospects get talked up. It’s how this shit works. If Brandt didn’t love Barkley as much as he does he wouldn’t say he loved him as much as he does. And why shouldn’t he say it? It’s his opinion.
Why this shit bothers some of you so much I’ll nevrr know. Barkley is universally beloved. This isn’t a bad thing. Every time someone posts a reputable source espousing and praising Barkley’s potential people get the vapors...
If so, I'm putting Randy Moss ahead of SB. He was nasty at Marshall; a total freak.
Barry Sanders is still like nothing I've ever seen at the college level. His production makes what SB did look JVish.
Did anybody see Willis McGahee at Miami? My God he was brilliant his last year. I would rank him above SB.
I think he was timed at Miami under 4.3 and as strong as a rhino. There was nothing he couldn't do. And despite the awful knee injury in the Fiesta Bowl, he still went on to have a very, very good pro career.
If either of those things were a question that needed answering, one would think he probably isn't regarded as the best player in the draft almost unanimously. I think it's a fair assumption that they know that already.
If so, I'm putting Randy Moss ahead of SB. He was nasty at Marshall; a total freak.
Barry Sanders is still like nothing I've ever seen at the college level. His production makes what SB did look JVish.
Did anybody see Willis McGahee at Miami? My God he was brilliant his last year. I would rank him above SB.
I think he was timed at Miami under 4.3 and as strong as a rhino. There was nothing he couldn't do. And despite the awful knee injury in the Fiesta Bowl, he still went on to have a very, very good pro career.
I'm a Hurricane fan, and McGahee isn't close to Barkley. He didn't have Barkley's agility, and their chops in the passing game aren't in the same stratosphere.
As for Sanders, I don't think anyone can touch Sanders as far as his moves. But he, too, was not as much of a factor in the passing game as one would like. But that is nitpicking, as that guy is the best running back I've ever seen. When a coach thinks you've put a foreign substance on your jersey because you are that hard to tackle, you're that good.
75-800-7 receiving.
Great blitz pickups.
I'd be jumping for joy!!!
2300 yards from scrimmage would be 11th best all time.
I think a lot of you are overestimating the situation he is walking into.
This is a bad team, in a new system with massive questions on the oline and terrible depth at the WR.
This isn't the Cowboys and Elliot 2 years ago, with a fantastic, best in a decade type line.
I'm a Hurricane fan, and McGahee isn't close to Barkley. He didn't have Barkley's agility, and their chops in the passing game aren't in the same stratosphere.
As for Sanders, I don't think anyone can touch Sanders as far as his moves. But he, too, was not as much of a factor in the passing game as one would like. But that is nitpicking, as that guy is the best running back I've ever seen. When a coach thinks you've put a foreign substance on your jersey because you are that hard to tackle, you're that good.
McGahee was a better between the tackles runner than SB. He ran with controlled violence. He was a 230lb RB running over and around defenders. I agree he didn’t have the bounce, but he was very nimble and could get to top speed pretty quickly. Miami didn’t need to throw as much to their backs with Johnson and Winslow in the mix. Yet, McGahee still averaged 13 ypc on nearly 30 receptions.
Remember, he still got drafted in the first round despite the horrible spaghetti knee injury. That’s how much the NFL still thought of him.
But these are just personal opinions. And I tend not to be a prisoner of the moment, so I just don’t elevate Barkley because we drafted him or he because he seems more unique.
What does that mean?
If you are suggesting BJ didn’t catch enough passes, which is true, that’s not his fault. That’s the nature of the game back then, especially Auburn’s philosophy...
I think a lot of you are overestimating the situation he is walking into.
This is a bad team, in a new system with massive questions on the oline and terrible depth at the WR.
This isn't the Cowboys and Elliot 2 years ago, with a fantastic, best in a decade type line.
Darkwa/Gallman combined for 282 carries (17.6 carries/game) and 1227 yards (4.35 yards/carry). If Barkley is the feature back from Day 1 (15+ carries/game) and the OL's run blocking is improved with Solder, Hernandez, and Omameh then 1100+ isn't out of the question. At 15 carries per game, Barkley needs just under 4.6 yards/carry to top 1100 yards.
If so, I'm putting Randy Moss ahead of SB. He was nasty at Marshall; a total freak.
Barry Sanders is still like nothing I've ever seen at the college level. His production makes what SB did look JVish.
Did anybody see Willis McGahee at Miami? My God he was brilliant his last year. I would rank him above SB.
I think he was timed at Miami under 4.3 and as strong as a rhino. There was nothing he couldn't do. And despite the awful knee injury in the Fiesta Bowl, he still went on to have a very, very good pro career.
These are draft grades, so surely McGahee would've been knocked down a bit by the injury.
Would he have topped the grade Brandt gave Barkley without the injury? I have no idea.
Quote:
the rest is TBD.
What does that mean?
If you are suggesting BJ didn’t catch enough passes, which is true, that’s not his fault. That’s the nature of the game back then, especially Auburn’s philosophy...
Bo was way before my time, but Barkley's route running has received a lot of praise in addition to *just* his hands. Being able to line him up at WR or in the slot can create some significant mismatches that many other RBs wouldn't be able to take advantage of.
Running between the tackles and putting McGahee over SB, TBD, but, gosh, that's got to be a function in large part of your OL, and good luck SB, difficult to compare, esp. at this point
As I've said over and over again - if he was better than Bo or Barry, why was his production not better?? Yes, college production isn't the end-all be-all, but given the ludicrous superlatives shouldn't he have done better if he truly is THAT amazing?
Can't say SB was the superior collegiate player, and can't say he'll be the better pro. But, his skillset was different and appears a better fit for the modern game.
These are draft grades, so surely McGahee would've been knocked down a bit by the injury.
Would he have topped the grade Brandt gave Barkley without the injury? I have no idea.
Good point. I didn’t think of that as a possibility.
I’m merely comparing what a remember on the field - healthy player to healthy player.
I think Gil Brandt has been grading players for the draft since 1960, so Barkley is his highest graded skill player ever, but that doesn't include players who entered the league before 1960. Jim Brown comes to mind.
Franco Harris? He obviously had a very good career and is in the HOF but his skill set wasn’t anywhere near what Barkley’s is. Barkley may not end up having the career that Harris did but that’s not the point of the article. It also helped that Harris played on a team full of HOFers, including the OL.
Giving someone with Eli's ability to read and our other weapons a yard of time and space by tilting the scale towards the defense one further step back and one further step spread and one more half a second to read...can have enormous impact and few stats
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and Franco Harris apprently.
Franco Harris? He obviously had a very good career and is in the HOF but his skill set wasn’t anywhere near what Barkley’s is. Barkley may not end up having the career that Harris did but that’s not the point of the article. It also helped that Harris played on a team full of HOFers, including the OL.
What Harris did in Pittsburgh is irrelevant. This would be based on what Brandt saw when Harris was at PSU.
I dare anyone to visit youtube and look at Earl Campbell when he was at UT and Herschel Walker when he was at Georgia. Those were different era, but they were tremendous physical specimens who dominated great competition...
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and his ability to elude tacklers and change direction are superb. Bo was an electrifying runner and unstoppable at the college level, but I think SB has him in those categories as a collegian.
As I've said over and over again - if he was better than Bo or Barry, why was his production not better?? Yes, college production isn't the end-all be-all, but given the ludicrous superlatives shouldn't he have done better if he truly is THAT amazing?
Saying college production isn't the end-all be-all, but then turning right around and acting as though it is? To be accurate: Barkley's junior season actually eclipsed Bo's senior season in yards from scrimmage, yards per play and total touchdowns. So, Barkley as a junior outperformed Bo as a senior, if you just compare their first three seasons Barkley absolutely decimates Bo's numbers. There you have it, your "proof" that Saquon Barkely is a better player than Bo Jackson.
So there's that. Of course, if we just need stats why don't we just look up the guys who put up the best numbers each year and not bother with scouting at all and draft accordingly? Why even watch them play?
Then, with regards to Barry Sanders, his junior season is widely regarded as the greatest single collegiate season by any offensive player of all time. So, by that standard, there never was nor there ever will be a better RB prospect than Barry Sanders. Again though, these are prospects ratings, and they grade them in all aspects, so Barkley could be closely rated to Barry in many aspects and eclipse him in other aspects like his size or ability in the passing game.
Then, with regards to Barry Sanders, his junior season is widely regarded as the greatest single collegiate season by any offensive player of all time. So, by that standard, there never was nor there ever will be a better RB prospect than Barry Sanders. Again though, these are prospects ratings, and they grade them in all aspects, so Barkley could be closely rated to Barry in many aspects and eclipse him in other aspects like his size or ability in the passing game.
Do you know what really makes Sanders' year at Oak State so great? It's the fact that he backed it up by being great in the pros.
It truly was a sign of things to come. Good read below...
Sanders' Great Year - ( New Window )
So, I get the backlash against the comparisons, it would be similar to someone comparing a recent draftee to Lawrence Taylor, which would be sacrilege. The thing is, it's not Giant fans making these comparisons. It's Gil Brandt. If Gil Brandt wants to go on record making those comparisons, I'm sure he's fully aware of the context of what he's suggesting, the guy is a walking encyclopedia of football knowledge. Brandt isn't the only one making seemingly outlandish comparisons. Matt Millen compared SB to Sanders as well as Marshall Faulk. Lance Zuerlein who writes the NFL.com capsules/pro player comparisons. John Brenkus, the host of sports science compared him athletically to Barry Sanders. Anonymous scouts in Bob McGinn's draft preview referring to him as a "big Barry Sanders". Anthony "booger" McFarland calling him the best running back since Sanders. You could keep going, but the point is there are a lot off football people heaping all sorts of high level praise Barkley's way, these aren't isolated statements. The difference with Barkely and all these other recent high level prospects, is they kept comparing those RBs with Adrian Peterson, saying "the best since Peterson". To have this many people skip right by Peterson, Faulk, Tomlinson etc and go right to Barry is pretty remarkable.
So, I get the backlash against the comparisons, it would be similar to someone comparing a recent draftee to Lawrence Taylor, which would be sacrilege. The thing is, it's not Giant fans making these comparisons. It's Gil Brandt. If Gil Brandt wants to go on record making those comparisons, I'm sure he's fully aware of the context of what he's suggesting, the guy is a walking encyclopedia of football knowledge. Brandt isn't the only one making seemingly outlandish comparisons. Matt Millen compared SB to Sanders as well as Marshall Faulk. Lance Zuerlein who writes the NFL.com capsules/pro player comparisons. John Brenkus, the host of sports science compared him athletically to Barry Sanders. Anonymous scouts in Bob McGinn's draft preview referring to him as a "big Barry Sanders". Anthony "booger" McFarland calling him the best running back since Sanders. You could keep going, but the point is there are a lot off football people heaping all sorts of high level praise Barkley's way, these aren't isolated statements. The difference with Barkely and all these other recent high level prospects, is they kept comparing those RBs with Adrian Peterson, saying "the best since Peterson". To have this many people skip right by Peterson, Faulk, Tomlinson etc and go right to Barry is pretty remarkable.
I don't want to give the impression that I find the comparison to Sanders outrageous. I absolutely don't. And I wouldn't expect a comparison to AP because the running styles are not similar. AP was down hill, hard, one cut, punishment.
SB is more about avoiding the hit with super-natural quicks, stops on a dime, spins, multiple cuts, instant acceleration, etc. Very, very similar to Sanders.
So that's what this really is - a stylistic comparison.
But where it starts to get murky is when we compare ACTUAL production and consistency. So while SB does have the style, and again that is on the mark, he really is not in the same universe with Sanders on a game to game and consistency basis.
Barkley played one more game than Sanders and had nearly 1,600 yards more! Sanders "worst" game was "only" 154 yards on 25 carries against Missouri. He had four 300+ games.
I mean, the numbers are just insane...and that was when the Big 8 was still very good with Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas.
Just incredible...
Sanders College Career: 30 games; 3556 yards rushing; 164 yards receiving; 3720 yards scrimmage; 49 TDs
Barkley College Career: 38 games; 3843 yards rushing; 1195 yards receiving; 5038 yards scrimmage; 51 TDs
Sanders Final Year: 11 games; 2628 yards rushing; 106 yards receiving; 2734 yards scrimmage; 37 TDs
Barkley Final Year: 13 games; 1271 yards rushing; 632 yards receiving; 1903 yards scrimmage; 21 TDs
Sanders College Career: 30 games; 3556 yards rushing; 164 yards receiving; 3720 yards scrimmage; 49 TDs
Barkley College Career: 38 games; 3843 yards rushing; 1195 yards receiving; 5038 yards scrimmage; 51 TDs
Sanders Final Year: 11 games; 2628 yards rushing; 106 yards receiving; 2734 yards scrimmage; 37 TDs
Barkley Final Year: 13 games; 1271 yards rushing; 632 yards receiving; 1903 yards scrimmage; 21 TDs
That's right - good clarification. Sanders played behind Thurman Thomas his first two years.
Not bad recruiting by Jimmy Johnson - huh? ;)
And that's funny, you add in Barkley's receiving yards, and exclude Sanders' receiving yards, it's still laughably far apart...
Barkley is/was a much better receiver than Sanders coming out.
Attempts, completions, passing yards, total yards, TD's (passing only), TD's (total), and passer rating.
Why did he fall all the way to the ninth round? Because he was considered too short to be successful in the NFL, for starters.
When discussing grades don't be fooled into thinking that college productivity is all that matters. Grades incorporate a ton of things, including production, athleticism, football IQ, leadership ability, marketability, general intelligence, citizenship, attitude, effort, consistency, etc.
We have now heard at least two professionals say that he's received historically high grades. Does that mean he won't bust? Of course not. It just means that a lot of pros understand why he was selected so high. Every player has bust potential.
Not to mention that Barkley received top notch grades for his work ethic and character (don't know how Sanders was viewed in these cats coming out).
Barkley is/was a much better receiver than Sanders coming out.
You don't know that because Oak State wasn't a throwing team. And, of course, the eras are different.
Giving someone with Eli's ability to read and our other weapons a yard of time and space by tilting the scale towards the defense one further step back and one further step spread and one more half a second to read...can have enormous impact and few stats
IMO, that is how I think his skills will be utilized and how he will measure in the future. The only thing that he will care about is the number of Super Bowls he wins. That is the ultimate goal. I don't thinks SB cares about stats.
Barkley is/was a much better receiver than Sanders coming out.
And I meant I was just taking Sanders' rushing yards versus Barkley's total yards. And that difference is still unbelievable, and in less games...
And yet, that's what this is all about since Barkley is supposedly the bestest RB ever.
Sanders in no rush for glory - ( New Window )
But then when others start reminding these members of what other great skill players did the move is "oh, well, it's too hard to compare eras. So let's trying to..."
I mentioned higher up in this thread that Randy Moss was a better skilled player in college than Barkley. He was from outer space:
96 catches, 1,820 yards, 19 ypc, 26 TDs.
And what's with the threats? I've read stuff like "he'd better get at least 1200 yds rushing and 800 yds receiving with 12 TD's...". What's up with that?
I'm not in psychology, but I would love to hear what a true psychologist would say about the things said in these scenarios. My own pop-psychology would say we have some stubborn people, some angry people, some delusional people, and others. It seems like the balance of irrational to rational reactions is decidedly tipped in the wrong direction, but perhaps that's because rational people don't get too involved in this stuff. Maybe that's the fanatical part of being a fan coming out in us.
Well, if that's true, then we should see something truly extraordinary from him, no?
Most are in that last sentence category. It's this instant canonization by quite a few.
And when your GM comes out saying a player has been "touched by the hand of God, well, it does start a fire.
Personally, I think that reflects very poorly on Gettleman, and I hope Barkley doesn't feel too much pressure and tries to hard...
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I didn't exclude Sanders' receiving yards...
Barkley is/was a much better receiver than Sanders coming out.
You don't know that because Oak State wasn't a throwing team. And, of course, the eras are different.
Even if you want to assume that, Barkley almost certainly still had a higher receiving grade since he had demonstrated his receiving ability and therefore its not unreasonable to think his overall grade as a RB (combining rushing, receiving, intangibles, etc) was higher.
Even if you want to assume that, Barkley almost certainly still had a higher receiving grade since he had demonstrated his receiving ability and therefore its not unreasonable to think his overall grade as a RB (combining rushing, receiving, intangibles, etc) was higher.
I hear you.
Just a quick compare and contrast, I'd say this:
Better runner: Sanders +
Better receiver: Barkley
Intangibles: dead even
Special teams: Sanders -
Ty Wheatley and Ron Dayne and David Wilson memories don't die.
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when you say "1600 yards less" I assume you are talking about their JR seasons only? And only rushing? Because otherwise there's nothing close to that:
Sanders College Career: 30 games; 3556 yards rushing; 164 yards receiving; 3720 yards scrimmage; 49 TDs
Barkley College Career: 38 games; 3843 yards rushing; 1195 yards receiving; 5038 yards scrimmage; 51 TDs
Sanders Final Year: 11 games; 2628 yards rushing; 106 yards receiving; 2734 yards scrimmage; 37 TDs
Barkley Final Year: 13 games; 1271 yards rushing; 632 yards receiving; 1903 yards scrimmage; 21 TDs
That's right - good clarification. Sanders played behind Thurman Thomas his first two years.
Not bad recruiting by Jimmy Johnson - huh? ;)
And that's funny, you add in Barkley's receiving yards, and exclude Sanders' receiving yards, it's still laughably far apart...
Ron D*yne - 1999 12 games 337 att 2,034 yds 6.0 ypc 20 TD
Ty Wheatley and Ron Dayne and David Wilson memories don't die.
Just because the Giants have made bad RB picks in the past doesn't mean that Barkley will be a bust.
If he stays healthy he'll be an All-Pro.
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Even if you want to assume that, Barkley almost certainly still had a higher receiving grade since he had demonstrated his receiving ability and therefore its not unreasonable to think his overall grade as a RB (combining rushing, receiving, intangibles, etc) was higher.
I hear you.
Just a quick compare and contrast, I'd say this:
Better runner: Sanders +
Better receiver: Barkley
Intangibles: dead even
Special teams: Sanders -
Sanders caught 350 passes in his career for near 3000 yards in a different era. I don't think you can so breezily assume Sanders is not an equal as a receiver.
Well, that certainly helps knowing that now. But I’m trying to be fair from a standpoint of what I saw in Sanders at Oak St, and in conjunction with his receiving stats then...
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cringing at the expectations and hype already.
Ty Wheatley and Ron Dayne and David Wilson memories don't die.
Just because the Giants have made bad RB picks in the past doesn't mean that Barkley will be a bust.
If he stays healthy he'll be an All-Pro.
That's a BIG if in the life of an NFL RB
Ron D*yne - 1999 12 games 337 att 2,034 yds 6.0 ypc 20 TD
You're kidding, right?
Way different type runner, and clearly less talented from a speed, quickness, cutting, agility, etc standpoint.
So it's not a rational suggestion. He wasn't even the best RB prospect in his draft class.
Well, if that's true, then we should see something truly extraordinary from him, no?
You have taken a very weird stance on Barkley simply because you didn’t want a RB. Now you will hate him for the rest of time. We all know how stubborn you are in your pursuit to be “right”. I agree with most of your posts, you’re a bright guy but you sure dig in when you’re set on something.
The obsession that the anti RB crowd has with innocent comments made by Gettleman are absolutely hysterical. Had they drafted the QB all of you wanted and he said the same thing you’d all say “yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about! That’s conviction!”. But he said it about a player you didn’t want so now Barkley has to be the best RB ever on the planet or else! I’m not sure what the or else exactly means though. Or else what?
The obsession that the anti RB crowd has with innocent comments made by Gettleman are absolutely hysterical. Had they drafted the QB all of you wanted and he said the same thing you’d all say “yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about! That’s conviction!”. But he said it about a player you didn’t want so now Barkley has to be the best RB ever on the planet or else! I’m not sure what the or else exactly means though. Or else what?
Innocent comments are: "we think he has great upside...", "We are excited to have added such a wonderful talent...", "Barkley is going to bring many dimensions to our offense...", "Saquon has the type of character we look for...", etc, etc.
Instead, we got something so off the wall from Gettleman - "he's been touched by the hand of God" - that this kid is now under tremendous pressure to instantly produce at a pro bowl level. Gettleman has laid down the gauntlet with this pick and his idea of what a high pick should be. Not those of us who take a more reasonable, measured approach...
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The obsession that the anti RB crowd has with innocent comments made by Gettleman are absolutely hysterical. Had they drafted the QB all of you wanted and he said the same thing you’d all say “yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about! That’s conviction!”. But he said it about a player you didn’t want so now Barkley has to be the best RB ever on the planet or else! I’m not sure what the or else exactly means though. Or else what?
Innocent comments are: "we think he has great upside...", "We are excited to have added such a wonderful talent...", "Barkley is going to bring many dimensions to our offense...", "Saquon has the type of character we look for...", etc, etc.
Instead, we got something so off the wall from Gettleman - "he's been touched by the hand of God" - that this kid is now under tremendous pressure to instantly produce at a pro bowl level. Gettleman has laid down the gauntlet with this pick and his idea of what a high pick should be. Not those of us who take a more reasonable, measured approach...
Good lord. Gettleman comments are only as harmful as you allow them to be. Guy said like YOU are making this a huge deal. Because you didn’t want Barkley. When you start to pick apart every little statement that a GM makes that just took a guy in the first round, you’re looking for a reason to be outraged. Give it a rest. Touched by the hand of God. You really give a shit that he said this? Your priorities are all kind of messed up. A GM using hyperbole has your panties all in a bunch becayou are looking for a reason to hate the player that you didn’t want. And that says MUCH more about you tha. It does the GM. It’s embarassing that fans are already ready to pounce on a guy that by all accounts is a fantastic human being. Sometimes I’m ashamed to be a Giants fan and it has nothing to do with the team. The fans fucking suck. Only in NY would this even be an issue. Freakin clown show fans. Let’s just be outraged!
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Who has the pitchforks out? You seem to confuse having tempered expectations for a rookie about to join an awful team, with an unproven line, in a brand new system with pitchforks.
There's plenty chance Barkley just won't be that good off the bat. Lots of rookies aren't. Lots of high picks bust.
You jump down everyone's throat on every thread. What are your expectations of him?
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The obsession that the anti RB crowd has with innocent comments made by Gettleman are absolutely hysterical. Had they drafted the QB all of you wanted and he said the same thing you’d all say “yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about! That’s conviction!”. But he said it about a player you didn’t want so now Barkley has to be the best RB ever on the planet or else! I’m not sure what the or else exactly means though. Or else what?
Innocent comments are: "we think he has great upside...", "We are excited to have added such a wonderful talent...", "Barkley is going to bring many dimensions to our offense...", "Saquon has the type of character we look for...", etc, etc.
Instead, we got something so off the wall from Gettleman - "he's been touched by the hand of God" - that this kid is now under tremendous pressure to instantly produce at a pro bowl level. Gettleman has laid down the gauntlet with this pick and his idea of what a high pick should be. Not those of us who take a more reasonable, measured approach...
Its not off the wall...just colorful.
Take it easy.
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
easy does it..this guy isn't pouncing, just going a bit further than you want.
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Those like you taking a more reasonable, measured approach. You have got to be kidding me. You have the pitchforks out and are ready to pounce if Barkley doesn’t end up in the HOF because of some comments made by the GM about the player he loves, That’s measured and reasonable?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Who has the pitchforks out? You seem to confuse having tempered expectations for a rookie about to join an awful team, with an unproven line, in a brand new system with pitchforks.
There's plenty chance Barkley just won't be that good off the bat. Lots of rookies aren't. Lots of high picks bust.
You jump down everyone's throat on every thread. What are your expectations of him?
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit I see. I have tempered expectations for him. THATS MY POINT! Certain posters on this board are taking random comments the GM made and using it as a prop to suggest that Barkley had better run for 2500 yards in his first yearto back up the GM comments. I’m actdefending Barkley here. Not because I think he’s going to the HOF. But because others DO expect that now. Based on a stupid hand of God comment by the GM. Anything else and he’s a failure in their book. Not sure how the hell you came up with it being me that expects him to break records, I never said that anywhere.
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In comment 13974612 BigBlueShock said:
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Those like you taking a more reasonable, measured approach. You have got to be kidding me. You have the pitchforks out and are ready to pounce if Barkley doesn’t end up in the HOF because of some comments made by the GM about the player he loves, That’s measured and reasonable?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Who has the pitchforks out? You seem to confuse having tempered expectations for a rookie about to join an awful team, with an unproven line, in a brand new system with pitchforks.
There's plenty chance Barkley just won't be that good off the bat. Lots of rookies aren't. Lots of high picks bust.
You jump down everyone's throat on every thread. What are your expectations of him?
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit I see. I have tempered expectations for him. THATS MY POINT! Certain posters on this board are taking random comments the GM made and using it as a prop to suggest that Barkley had better run for 2500 yards in his first yearto back up the GM comments. I’m actdefending Barkley here. Not because I think he’s going to the HOF. But because others DO expect that now. Based on a stupid hand of God comment by the GM. Anything else and he’s a failure in their book. Not sure how the hell you came up with it being me that expects him to break records, I never said that anywhere.
Who's expecting that? What do expect from him?
It’s down right asinine! Because you didn’t want the player. That’s the bottom line. You’d rather be “right” than support the decision and have an ounce of patience and rationality. Pathetic.
Well, that was an interesting read.
I’ve been a PSU fan for 30+ years, so if anybody is a fan of Barkley, and hopes he kills it, it’s me.
My position has been clear for months - I didn’t think the best use of the #2 pick was selecting a RB. So I think the draft was mismanaged.
This may be the most pivotal pick in the history of the organization. So I’m going to criticize the pick, particularly when it was a very good class of QBs when we have an ancient one.
And yes - I’m going to point out Gettlemen’s dumb ass remark. And mainly because it was a dumb ass remark.
Taking a ‘good’ QB at #2 can put you in QB hell.
There’s a much greater chance one or more of Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold and Allen bust than that Barkley busts.
Taking a ‘good’ QB at #2 can put you in QB hell.
There’s a much greater chance one or more of Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold and Allen bust than that Barkley busts.
We took a “good” QB in the 4th round.
We missed a great opportunity to take a great QB in the first round.
Barkley may have been the best RB in the draft but I refuse to believe he’s a better football player than Minkah Fitzpatrick or Derwin James. Those guys are tremendous game changing prospects.
Refusing to believe has been the concept that significantly derails discussion.
Oddly, many people fully embrace that the QB's drafted below Barkley will be something special.
Strange dynamics.
Yes, it’s possible, that 37 years later we actually got that “from the get-go” super performer. TBD of course, but I am embracing that tantalizing and rare opportunity to experience this wholeheartedly
Yes, it’s possible, that 37 years later we actually got that “from the get-go” super performer. TBD of course, but I am embracing that tantalizing and rare opportunity to experience this wholeheartedly
I think it's been slightly more recent than that. Unless you don't consider 91 receptions for 1305 yards and 12 TDs to be a "super performer."
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get a very special player who performs at a high level immediately. It usually seems to happen to other teams i.e. Bo, Dickerson, Sanders, Pederson et al..For us, the last IMMEDIATE success at a superstar level was of course LT in ‘81.
Yes, it’s possible, that 37 years later we actually got that “from the get-go” super performer. TBD of course, but I am embracing that tantalizing and rare opportunity to experience this wholeheartedly
I think it's been slightly more recent than that. Unless you don't consider 91 receptions for 1305 yards and 12 TDs to be a "super performer."
Oh shit. Of course..
Barkley is/was a much better receiver than Sanders coming out.
Type of offenses changed. The running back has become a heavier part of the passing offense.
If Manning's play looks like last year and the rookies look sharp, Barkley is going to shoulder a little bit of that as well.
It's not fair or reasonable, but it's likely. Wanting to tone down the hyperbole isn't a bitter vendetta from those who wanted a QB, it's just practical. Read basically any account from a bust and the expectations from the media, management and fans will be in there.
Taking a ‘good’ QB at #2 can put you in QB hell.
If you look at it that way, what you're saying is don't draft a guy unless he's can't miss, and there's no such thing as can't miss. We have years of documented proof that "can't miss" drafted players miss all the time. Fans play the hindsight game all the time in the draft, but many players that went high and failed were sold as can't miss at the time.
Is that language too direct for you "safe space" fans?
Saying you refuse to believe is not so much direct as it is being obtuse, but carry on.
So expectations, etc., for this guy is again, media and fan created. Given he probably has received incredible accolades since pee-wee football, I strongly doubt he’ll give two shitz about what is poured upon him, imo
Saying you refuse to believe is not so much direct as it is being obtuse, but carry on.
Did you even read what I wrote? I said Fitz and James are great prospects and just as good at their positions as SB is at his. I'm not sure why that would fall under obtuse.
Now, I know that doesn't fit the narrative that comes out of Jints Central or the mainstream sports media - sources that you and most buy as the truth - but I think it's very defensible.
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"too direct"??
Saying you refuse to believe is not so much direct as it is being obtuse, but carry on.
Did you even read what I wrote? I said Fitz and James are great prospects and just as good at their positions as SB is at his. I'm not sure why that would fall under obtuse.
Now, I know that doesn't fit the narrative that comes out of Jints Central or the mainstream sports media - sources that you and most buy as the truth - but I think it's very defensible.
So let me get this straight. You have been pounding your fist on the table since the draft because you don’t take a RB with the 2nd pick. Because that’s what you’ve been conditioned to believe. Yet, you’re perfectly fine taking a safety at 2, even though almost no one on the planet ranks those guys as better prospects than Barkley? But you randomly say they are, so it must be true or everyone else is just bowing to the media. Got it.
So let me get this straight. You have been pounding your fist on the table since the draft because you don’t take a RB with the 2nd pick. Because that’s what you’ve been conditioned to believe. Yet, you’re perfectly fine taking a safety at 2, even though almost no one on the planet ranks those guys as better prospects than Barkley? But you randomly say they are, so it must be true or everyone else is just bowing to the media. Got it.
Nice try. "Conditioned to believe..." - now that's a good one. By whom?
I never said take a S. I said those players were just as good at their position as SB.
I didn't write anything complicated to give you any indication that that was what I was saying. Pretty simple stuff - subject, verb, direct object.
In other words, you are completely making up your narrative for whatever reason...
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And the second best player was probably Chubb.
Taking a ‘good’ QB at #2 can put you in QB hell.
If you look at it that way, what you're saying is don't draft a guy unless he's can't miss, and there's no such thing as can't miss. We have years of documented proof that "can't miss" drafted players miss all the time. Fans play the hindsight game all the time in the draft, but many players that went high and failed were sold as can't miss at the time.
I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying you take the best player available and you shouldn’t reach for a need.
And I don’t see how SB busts unless he is injured. He’s just that good of a player.
We can find several sources that have Barkley as one of the highest rated RB's EVER. Several saying he's a generational player and likely the best player in the draft.
How exactly would that translate to two guys being just as good at their positions?
By the way, does the incompetent Jints Central even have control over Brandt and the mainstream media?
Really tough to keep positioning Jints central as equal parts clueless and manipulative, but you keep trying.
We can find several sources that have Barkley as one of the highest rated RB's EVER. Several saying he's a generational player and likely the best player in the draft.
How exactly would that translate to two guys being just as good at their positions?
It's just opinion. It's not like I said a P, K, or LS were in Barkley's football class. So I disagree with the conventional wisdom on SB. Great college player, yes, but I think the projections for him are too big - like so many other generational types from the past.
James and Fitzpatrick are outstanding players. I'm not making some wild-ass stretch here. These guys could be instant pro bowl players. But that would require that you watch them play.
Fitzpatrick played all 4 DB positions for Saban and he played monster. There is nothing he can't do as a DB. Saban calls him one of the best defenders he's ever had. Good enough for me from a defensive mastermind who isn't quick to dole out such high praise.
Do you even know who James is? Have you seen him play? If you aren't impressed by his play and measurables than I don't know what to tell you about what a great prospect looks like. He will be a great NFL safety - and instantly. San Diego got the steal of the draft for a position that needed.
DG made one hyperbolic comment. The media and fans have been incessant. DG’s other comments about SB have all been in response to reporters’ questions..
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DG made one hyperbolic comment. The media and fans have been incessant. DG’s other comments about SB have all been in response to reporters’ questions..
He's made more than one. But this one was outrageous; and frankly it made him look stupid.
I think he's got more pressure than Barkley. Because if Barkley isn't the second coming of Brown/Sanders/Walter/etc this is going to be a helluva albatross to deal with...
Top 3 RB in the history of the sport or it’s an epic failure. Jeezus
Top 3 RB in the history of the sport or it’s an epic failure. Jeezus
Whatever.
I'm really not outraged. I'm making an argument. You're applying whatever tone of voice you want to hear.
He's the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL day one. Sam Darnold for reference is the 28th highest paid QB.
He's the highest selected running back in some time. He's going to a team with an iconic vet QB looking for his last stand.
When Gettleman virtually says he's perfect in his post-draft comments, that's a pretty decent bet.
Read the posts on this and other threads on what fans expect his numbers to be.
He's the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL day one. Sam Darnold for reference is the 28th highest paid QB.
He's the highest selected running back in some time. He's going to a team with an iconic vet QB looking for his last stand.
When Gettleman virtually says he's perfect in his post-draft comments, that's a pretty decent bet.
Read the posts on this and other threads on what fans expect his numbers to be.
Are you addressing me?
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If you can't recognize Gettleman has bet a lot on Barkley you don't know how football works.
He's the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL day one. Sam Darnold for reference is the 28th highest paid QB.
He's the highest selected running back in some time. He's going to a team with an iconic vet QB looking for his last stand.
When Gettleman virtually says he's perfect in his post-draft comments, that's a pretty decent bet.
Read the posts on this and other threads on what fans expect his numbers to be.
Are you addressing me?
Howdy buddy! Nope, just the general "you," which is always dangerous.
My (very small) fear is if Barkley isn't good out of the gate, he's going to get crushed. Crushed in the media, the fans, social media etc.
I like Gettleman, but his post-draft comments felt self-indulgent for my taste. I don't want the kid to be feel like a failure if he doesn't succeed right away. I think the team is as bad as it showed last year and I am not banking on anyone showing much for a while. And I don't want that to mess with Barkley's head.
On a side note Brandt had Hernandez as his 15th best player this year. I’m really looking forward to see him play
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In comment 13975445 christian said:
Quote:
If you can't recognize Gettleman has bet a lot on Barkley you don't know how football works.
He's the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL day one. Sam Darnold for reference is the 28th highest paid QB.
He's the highest selected running back in some time. He's going to a team with an iconic vet QB looking for his last stand.
When Gettleman virtually says he's perfect in his post-draft comments, that's a pretty decent bet.
Read the posts on this and other threads on what fans expect his numbers to be.
Are you addressing me?
Howdy buddy! Nope, just the general "you," which is always dangerous.
My (very small) fear is if Barkley isn't good out of the gate, he's going to get crushed. Crushed in the media, the fans, social media etc.
I like Gettleman, but his post-draft comments felt self-indulgent for my taste. I don't want the kid to be feel like a failure if he doesn't succeed right away. I think the team is as bad as it showed last year and I am not banking on anyone showing much for a while. And I don't want that to mess with Barkley's head.
I thin SB is mentally strong and can handle it just fine if he has a slow start. Also I think we are much better than they showed last year before the additions. I think the biggest issue was coaching/leadership. I think the players saw through all the bs and that’s when the trouble began. Where I think we will be in trouble this year is with depth thanks to several years of piss poor drafts
The ones throwing a tantrum because we didn’t go qb
Playing the old, "have you seen him play card"?
Do you even know who James is? Have you seen him play? If you aren't impressed by his play and measurables than I don't know what to tell you about what a great prospect looks like. He will be a great NFL safety - and instantly. San Diego got the steal of the draft for a position that needed.
It seems that you are intentionally being obtuse to not see the difference between two very good players and one that MANY people have said is generational and the majority of whom has said was the best player in the draft.
I happen to think Chubb is a great player too. That doesn't mean that somehow devalues Barkley.
But again - the underlying issue is if you don't try to make these preposterous parallels then you can't throw shade on "Jints Central", and that's the bottom line you keep trying to gloss over.
Playing the old, "have you seen him play card"?
It seems that you are intentionally being obtuse to not see the difference between two very good players and one that MANY people have said is generational and the majority of whom has said was the best player in the draft.
It was a serious question, actually. You are the same guy who thought Mariotta played for U of Hawaii. So I'm not assuming anything.
That's really more a function of the league moving away from paying runningbacks specifically to drive down salaries. The average runningback gets peanuts. Players like Leveon Bell, Adrian Peterson, and eventually Elliott will easily be 12-14m cap hits.
I still have no idea why we decided to make J. Stewart the fifth-largest salary cap burden in football.
Dave on the UWS : 5/24/2018 8:12 pm : link : reply
about Barkley's running style is Gail Sayers. Go back and look at old tapes of Sayers, he too wasn't a small guy, but ran like a scat back. SB is potentially one of the best pass receiving backs ever. He's very natural at it and you can bet he will be majorly featured by Shurmur. He an Odell will make each other even more dangerous.
It reminds me of a guy hooked to a joy stick when he gets in the open field he makes subtle moves that you almost don't pick them up and niether do the defenders the next thing you know he is by you ..