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Giants let go equipment employees

GiantsBRFan2 : 5/24/2018 9:08 pm
Via ESPN.

Quote:
The New York Giants have shaken up their equipment room less than two weeks after settling with three sports memorabilia collectors who accused quarterback Eli Manning and several members of the organization of providing bogus "game-worn" equipment that was sold to unsuspecting fans.

Longtime team employees Edward and Joseph Skiba and Ed Wagner Jr. were among those let go, multiple sources told ESPN. Joseph Skiba was the team's equipment director. Edward Skiba, his brother, was the assistant equipment manager. Wagner was the equipment/locker room manager. He had worked for the Giants his entire adult life, according to a 1999 story by The New York Times. His father also was an equipment manager for the team.

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Scapegoating?  
Vanzetti : 5/25/2018 12:45 am : link
Or were these guys dirty?
When these guys were selling stuff  
tomjgiant : 5/25/2018 5:57 am : link
did the money go to the Giants or did they keep it like it was their own private business?
RE: RE: RE: What we don't know...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2018 6:13 am : link
In comment 13974649 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13974590 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13974574 EricJ said:


Quote:


unless I missed something is whether these guys were really responsible for what happened OR if they are just taking the blame here.



I strongly doubt they would have done this just to throw blame on someone else. The case is settled and sealed. It was a closed issue no one was going to get anything more out of.


That's true. The Giants have never fired an employee before to protect the legacy of one particular employee.


If this was about "protecting" Eli, then the cat's already out of the bag considering Eli was already named and was going to get brought to trial until the case was settled. He already took the hit from being involved in this. It didn't protect his name from anything. Plenty of folks assume that if you settle a case out of court that you have something to hide anyway.
RE: They committed the cardinal sin of engaging in illegal  
QB Snacks : 5/25/2018 7:53 am : link
In comment 13974592 jcn56 said:
Quote:
or unethical behavior while on the job, and sending e-mails detailing that activity (amongst other things) from a corporate owned e-mail account.

They weren't going to hold on to those jobs for very long. I'm surprised they made it this far.


So did the qb
This is generally true...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/25/2018 7:59 am : link
Quote:
After 30 or 40 years of handling equipment it is very possible
Marty in Albany : 5/24/2018 9:57 pm : link : reply
that these guys have rooms full of game worn jerseys, helmets, etc., going all the way back to YA Tittle and Lawrence Taylor. They probably kept the stuff as souvenirs,... but in a pinch. It could be worth a fortune.


One of the unwritten perks is that the equipment guys have access to items. As long as they are responsible with them, they basically are allowed to keep taking them. That's where the Skiba's got into trouble.

The equipment manager down here has given memorabilia to several restaurants and other organizations. Charity auctions are often able to get items to help raise funds, so for the most part, while not technically being legal, it goes to good or neutral causes.

But just like anything else - when lines are crossed, that's when team's take action, and based on most equipment managers having the position for life, you really have to cross a line to get canned.
Before the protecting Eli narrative takes off....  
Britt in VA : 5/25/2018 8:34 am : link
just remember that the grounds for this lawsuit started well before Eli Manning was involved.

The guy who brought this suit, Eric Inselberg, was indicted by the FBI many years ago, but got off because it was discovered that the Skibas lied to the FBI that they knew him, and he provided evidence that he had been dealing with them on the side for many years, long before Eli Manning was even on the team.

This goes way further back than Eli Manning.
Haven't a clue what...  
M.S. : 5/25/2018 8:35 am : link

...Edward Skiba, Joseph Skiba, Ed Wagner Jr. et. al. did wrong.

It was probably "something"... but I will say this.

Compared to the manipulation, cheating, collusion and you name it that goes on in Corporate America every single day, I doubt their actions rise very high on the lying-cheating-bullshit-scale.

Based on some of the comments on this thread, you would think their actions were as bad as Enron or the sub prime mortgage debacle.

All equipment managers...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/25/2018 8:38 am : link
basically funnel items that they don't technically own to entities that use them for secondary sale or display.

All of them violate rules of some sort. Most are innocuous because they go to charity or to restaurants, bars and the like, but finding grounds to dismiss an equipment manager isn't too tough at all.
Question...  
M.S. : 5/25/2018 8:41 am : link

...does anyone on this thread actually know -- beyond generalities -- as to precisely what the equipment employees did wrong?

Clearly, they messed up somewhere, but what are the hard facts and where is the evidence and sources behind these hard facts?
RE: Haven't a clue what...  
jcn56 : 5/25/2018 8:43 am : link
In comment 13974810 M.S. said:
Quote:

...Edward Skiba, Joseph Skiba, Ed Wagner Jr. et. al. did wrong.

It was probably "something"... but I will say this.

Compared to the manipulation, cheating, collusion and you name it that goes on in Corporate America every single day, I doubt their actions rise very high on the lying-cheating-bullshit-scale.

Based on some of the comments on this thread, you would think their actions were as bad as Enron or the sub prime mortgage debacle.


The actions weren't any different, only the stakes were.

Given the opportunity, I have no doubt they'd be trying to stash debt in shell corporations if they were capable of doing so. Fraud is fraud.
Yes...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/25/2018 8:50 am : link
Quote:
Question...
M.S. : 8:41 am : link : reply

...does anyone on this thread actually know -- beyond generalities -- as to precisely what the equipment employees did wrong?

Clearly, they messed up somewhere, but what are the hard facts and where is the evidence and sources behind these hard facts?


The Skiba's have been funneling equipment to dealers for years. Again - probably not that uncommon. However, it looks like this went South because the dealer decided to claim that he was being defrauded.

Here's the rub - the skiba's were dealing with an asshole who broke the unwritten rule of dealers too. Don't turn on the people who supply you. Now, he'll be screwed going forward too as no equipment guiy will want to deal with him.
By the way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/25/2018 8:58 am : link
to show how tight knit the equipment manager community is, I posted about the shady dealings that Jackie Miles, the Panthers equipment manager had on one of the early threads about the Giants situation. How he was providing merchandise to bars to cover his drinking tabs and gambling debts.

didn't the fucker find the post somehow and email me to threaten me with slander? Only after I provided specifics because the dickhead didn't realize my neighbor owned the restaurant where he gave merchandise to did he back off.

Like I said above, the teams generally don't care unless the abuse is egregious. Afterall, these guys manage all the equipment, deal with replacing and repairing it. Deal with laundry and assorted other crap and keep that burden off the players and coaches so that uniforms, helmets, pads, cleats, etc. are ready to go at all times. They are given a ton of leeway. It is a tough job and they don't get paid a fortune to do it.
RE: By the way..  
Britt in VA : 5/25/2018 9:03 am : link
In comment 13974831 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to show how tight knit the equipment manager community is, I posted about the shady dealings that Jackie Miles, the Panthers equipment manager had on one of the early threads about the Giants situation. How he was providing merchandise to bars to cover his drinking tabs and gambling debts.

didn't the fucker find the post somehow and email me to threaten me with slander? Only after I provided specifics because the dickhead didn't realize my neighbor owned the restaurant where he gave merchandise to did he back off.

Like I said above, the teams generally don't care unless the abuse is egregious. Afterall, these guys manage all the equipment, deal with replacing and repairing it. Deal with laundry and assorted other crap and keep that burden off the players and coaches so that uniforms, helmets, pads, cleats, etc. are ready to go at all times. They are given a ton of leeway. It is a tough job and they don't get paid a fortune to do it.


Ha, that's crazy.
Brandon Jacobs  
BBelle21 : 5/25/2018 9:03 am : link
who we Giants fans know has never sugar coated anything and has no issue speaking his mind, has been very vocal about the Skiba brothers being scumbags. They’re not scapegoats here.
RE: Yes...  
M.S. : 5/25/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 13974827 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Question...
M.S. : 8:41 am : link : reply

...does anyone on this thread actually know -- beyond generalities -- as to precisely what the equipment employees did wrong?

Clearly, they messed up somewhere, but what are the hard facts and where is the evidence and sources behind these hard facts?



The Skiba's have been funneling equipment to dealers for years. Again - probably not that uncommon. However, it looks like this went South because the dealer decided to claim that he was being defrauded.

Here's the rub - the skiba's were dealing with an asshole who broke the unwritten rule of dealers too. Don't turn on the people who supply you. Now, he'll be screwed going forward too as no equipment guiy will want to deal with him.

Sounds like a crook bitching about his fellow crook for crooking him a bit, if you get my drift.
RE: RE: Haven't a clue what...  
M.S. : 5/25/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 13974819 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13974810 M.S. said:


Quote:



...Edward Skiba, Joseph Skiba, Ed Wagner Jr. et. al. did wrong.

It was probably "something"... but I will say this.

Compared to the manipulation, cheating, collusion and you name it that goes on in Corporate America every single day, I doubt their actions rise very high on the lying-cheating-bullshit-scale.

Based on some of the comments on this thread, you would think their actions were as bad as Enron or the sub prime mortgage debacle.




The actions weren't any different, only the stakes were.

Given the opportunity, I have no doubt they'd be trying to stash debt in shell corporations if they were capable of doing so. Fraud is fraud.

"Fraud is fraud," I certainly agree with you there. But it almost sounds like they were maybe acting "fraudulently" in an area where the boundaries around fraud are not fully defined and codified. Of course, that is no excuse.
RE: Question...  
ron mexico : 5/25/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13974816 M.S. said:
Quote:

...does anyone on this thread actually know -- beyond generalities -- as to precisely what the equipment employees did wrong?

Clearly, they messed up somewhere, but what are the hard facts and where is the evidence and sources behind these hard facts?


There is one of your elis helmet out therehelmet out there that's what is represented as game worn and clearly was not. It didn't have the right stickers etc. I think it's obvious that Skiba faked it, whether Eli knew about it is another issue
RE: Bound to happen  
Joey in VA : 5/25/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13974611 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
Joe is a good dude - wish him the best going forward.
He clearly is NOT a good dude, he committed fraud and hornswaggled people. How is that good? He might be a nice guy but sure as shootin' he's not a good guy.
I was never a fan of the Skibas  
NYGmen58 : 5/25/2018 11:27 am : link
They always seemed like conniving and arrogant little men, who clearly were the ones at fault here.

They are definitely good equipment management professionals but I imagine there were several other incidents with them in the past that we may not be aware of.
They crossed  
Pete in MD : 5/25/2018 12:03 pm : link
the line when trying to sell game-worn tampons from last year's team.
Good riddance  
trueblueinpw : 5/25/2018 12:30 pm : link
Everything I read about these guys was shady. I guess we can assume the only reason Mara Tisch were keeping these guys around was because they were afraid they would continue to soil the franchise. Maybe nothing to do with Reese but it seems like the Giants really lacked charecter during his time as GM. Maybe that’s more on the owners, probably, either way, it’s good that things are changing.
Yeah  
Joey in VA : 5/25/2018 12:34 pm : link
Good guy. What a couple of fucking assholes.
RE: RE: Bound to happen  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 5/25/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13974999 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13974611 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


Joe is a good dude - wish him the best going forward.

He clearly is NOT a good dude, he committed fraud and hornswaggled people. How is that good? He might be a nice guy but sure as shootin' he's not a good guy.


Thank you for that lesson in semantics. With all the issues in the world, the one thing I'm not going to get sanctimonious about is sports memorabilia. In fact, the Giants' home of Bergen County is getting sued because they auctioned off sports memorabilia they seized that turned out to be fake.

The Skiba family did a lot of good for Bergen Catholic before and after they started working for the Giants. That's my personal interaction and how I regard them. But thanks for your comment.
Should Pat  
Pete in MD : 5/25/2018 1:02 pm : link
Hanlon also lose his job in all of this?
Not to mention Heller  
Wazzat : 5/25/2018 1:12 pm : link
.
Were  
XBRONX : 5/25/2018 1:19 pm : link
they allowed to leave with game worn gesr?
RE: RE: RE: Bound to happen  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2018 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13975194 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 13974999 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13974611 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


Joe is a good dude - wish him the best going forward.

He clearly is NOT a good dude, he committed fraud and hornswaggled people. How is that good? He might be a nice guy but sure as shootin' he's not a good guy.



Thank you for that lesson in semantics. With all the issues in the world, the one thing I'm not going to get sanctimonious about is sports memorabilia. In fact, the Giants' home of Bergen County is getting sued because they auctioned off sports memorabilia they seized that turned out to be fake.

The Skiba family did a lot of good for Bergen Catholic before and after they started working for the Giants. That's my personal interaction and how I regard them. But thanks for your comment.


So don't be mad about sports memorabilia. Be mad about lying to the FBI. Or be mad about throwing another person under the bus.There's plenty of things to dislike if you have to cherry pick.


"After learning his equipment staff had been selling team property for side income for years and then lied to an FBI agent about it, Mara didn’t fire the men. Instead, the Giants put Joe and Ed Skiba on probation and froze their pay for three years.

“The Giants organization chose to internally handle this personnel matter,” said Kessler, the team law firm spokeswoman."

Nice job, John.
How did they  
Pete in MD : 5/25/2018 1:53 pm : link
live without pay for three years?
they lived without a pay raise from 2011  
Wazzat : 5/25/2018 2:02 pm : link
until 2015.
That's basically..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/25/2018 2:24 pm : link
par for the course for the equipment managers. The part that got them in trouble was dealing with a guy who turned on them, for no real good reason.

Most of the time, these guys operate with the tacit approval of the team, but the Skiba's clearly crossed a line.
Wouldn't  
Pete in MD : 5/25/2018 2:30 pm : link
have made much more sense to pay the equipment guys a little more and not let them do shady stuff? Seems like that would have been acceptable to both parties (before this all came out.)
Wazzat..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/25/2018 2:33 pm : link
the Skiba's told Isenberg some of the goods were less than authentic and he used that information against them.

Everyone involved in moving the memorabilia acted like a bunch of scumbags.
I have a real  
Joey in VA : 5/25/2018 2:33 pm : link
Issue with dishonesty, it makes my skin crawl. No amount of good deeds outside of this shady operation makes them OK to me. I'm not one bit bothered by it, the world is a shitty place with far shittier things going on, but if asked to weigh in, yeah they are scumbags.
Can Eli be innocent?  
GiantTexan : 5/25/2018 2:41 pm : link
Have any of your opinions on him changed? Although, after reading the Washpost article. I doubt Strahan knew that he had a fake hanging in his home.
Damn Right  
Giantslifer : 5/25/2018 3:39 pm : link
Fire the Equipment/Ball man

Lesson to all.
Better make damn sure your tracks are covered, because the QB ( Brady & Manning) will be covering theirs.
Keep all documents and correspondence.

damn  
BleedBlue : 5/25/2018 4:11 pm : link
when are they gonna hire a new staff???


I have equipment management experience! where do i apply lol
RE: Wouldn't  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13975340 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
have made much more sense to pay the equipment guys a little more and not let them do shady stuff? Seems like that would have been acceptable to both parties (before this all came out.)


I would venture to guess equipment guys for a professional sports franchise are doing well as far as take home pay.
Just an ugly situation for all involved.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/25/2018 4:16 pm : link
Still can't believe the FBI was in the Giants facility for this situation. Ugly.
RE: Can Eli be innocent?  
ron mexico : 5/25/2018 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13975359 GiantTexan said:
Quote:
Have any of your opinions on him changed? Although, after reading the Washpost article. I doubt Strahan knew that he had a fake hanging in his home.


I doubt he is 100% innocent.

There is a helmet out there with his signature that he signed as game worn that clearly wasn't.
I think Eli is 100% innocent  
trueblueinpw : 5/25/2018 7:32 pm : link
No doubt in my mind. I think that’s why this shit show went on as long as it. My guess, and yeah, what the fuck do I know, is that Eli wanted to fight this to the end and clear his name from the dirt these scumbags threw onto him. I could be wrong but I think with Eli you get exactly what you see, a genuinely nice guy who works hard and keeps his nose clean. Has Eli ever been even remotely close to this kind of dirt? But what, all of the sudden he’s earning a few extra bucks getting in bed with the sleezy Skeebas? Really doubt it.
Eli has a contract with Steiner Sports  
BBelle21 : 5/25/2018 9:22 pm : link
like many ny athletes do. He’s also one of the most altruistic athletes we’ve seen. Agree 100% with trueblue.
RE: RE: Bound to happen  
Matt M. : 5/26/2018 3:20 am : link
In comment 13974999 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13974611 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


Joe is a good dude - wish him the best going forward.

He clearly is NOT a good dude, he committed fraud and hornswaggled people. How is that good? He might be a nice guy but sure as shootin' he's not a good guy.
It's like the treatment some still give license plate guy. I've been meaning to start a thread on this because I didn't realize he was involved in the charity softball game Landon Collins was promoting. This guy is a true scumbag and back in 2010 (I believe) the Giants organization even made a statement and said they have instructed their players about him. I find it mind boggling that their players are allowed to be seen with him. This is a guy with gambling ties and loan sharking charges. Not exactly who a professional athlete should be associated with.
RE: I think Eli is 100% innocent  
Matt M. : 5/26/2018 3:21 am : link
In comment 13975581 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
No doubt in my mind. I think that’s why this shit show went on as long as it. My guess, and yeah, what the fuck do I know, is that Eli wanted to fight this to the end and clear his name from the dirt these scumbags threw onto him. I could be wrong but I think with Eli you get exactly what you see, a genuinely nice guy who works hard and keeps his nose clean. Has Eli ever been even remotely close to this kind of dirt? But what, all of the sudden he’s earning a few extra bucks getting in bed with the sleezy Skeebas? Really doubt it.
I agree.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 5/26/2018 3:40 am : link
1) Above all else, thank you to FatMan for hos contributions on this thread. They are very enlightening and helpful in understanding this whole debacle.

2) The more I read about this, the more I think Eli is innocent. I may be naiive, but throughout his career he has seemed like nothing more than a down to earth and nice guy. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would like to believe that is true for my sake and my kids' sake and that may be clouding my judgement. But, I see a guy who had family wealth and became extremely wealthy himself. There was not a need for him to commit fraud in this and not much compelling me to believe he did.

He supposedly had a contract with Steiner to supply game used stuff. I think that is where it ends. I think the Skibas were ultimately responsible for supplying the stuff. It certainly sounds from what we are now hearing that made a hefty side business out of supplying people with tons of stuff, some of it passed off as game worn. I don't know if they did this with Steiner, but I believe more and more Eli knew nothing of this. I believe this is why he didn't settle initially and was ready to fight this. I believe the settlement came from the Giants side, to try to protect what we are now learning.

I don't know if the stories about Hanlon are true. Again, these sound more and more to be exaggerated by the Skibas and their counterparts both to protect themselves and to deflect some blame. But, it certainly sounds like the Giants knew of some of these dealings for at least 5 years and chose to do very little about it.
By the way, I have no problem with an equipment manager...  
EricJ : 5/26/2018 6:37 am : link
selling jerseys if they are truly game worn and the player whose number is on the back has given him permission to do it.
Agree with Matt M.  
BBelle21 : 5/26/2018 7:53 am : link
And the contract with Steiner Sports required Eli and other athletes to provide a certain number of game used items in a season. This is where the problem begins. The amount required to be fulfilled is a ridiculous number. No athlete could possibly “use” that amount in a season or even keep track of which stuff he wore in games (and even warmups). Once Eli touches an item or wears it even for a few seconds, it’s deemed game worn and taken away. This is why some fans complained that something looked brand new. And also why Eli asked Skiba for something that could pass as game used for those fans that complained. Most athletes would never even trouble themselves to help those fans.

But as Shaun O’Hara angrily said, “it’s not Eli’s job (to keep track of his laundry). His job is to play QB for the NY Giants.” The equipment managers take the items and put it away as “game used”. They can then pretty much do or say whatever they want about it. Steiner sports also claimed they have their people on the sidelines to take Eli’s game used stuff, but how can that be if the Skibas had a separate place to hold all of it.

Do fans really think Eli was intentionally trying to scam the fans who mean a great deal to him and who cares deeply about his reputation? This is precisely I believe why he let this drag on for so long. He genuinely wanted to clear his name.
*correction*  
BBelle21 : 5/26/2018 7:56 am : link
If I remember correctly, Eli didn’t send that “pass as” request to Skiba. It was Wagner, perhaps.
Matt...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/26/2018 9:48 am : link
thanks. Glad I can bring a perspective.

One other thing I'll add about memorabilia is that most active players, emphasis on active, let the de facto handler of their memorabilia be the equipment guys. It generally falls on their shoulders to produce the appropriate items. Even the testimony shows that Eli often forgot to hand over the items.

Most players have some sort of contract or agreement that their agent brokers to deliver memorabilia. But again, the administrating of giving the items out falls to the equipment managers.

Now, once players retire, that's when they start actually reaping bigger benefits as they control the revenue flow by signing autographs and photos and thing like that. But that's a whole different story to go into.
I worked with Ed Wagner Sr.’s  
Bleedin Blue : 5/26/2018 6:45 pm : link
Nephew, who also worked home games as a ball guy. I purchased an official NFL Ball after the 86 championship and gave it to my friend and asked if he could get guys to sign it. Never saw the ball again! I went to his funeral expecting to see the ball in his coffin LOL! I was going to grab his leprechaun of an uncle for my ball!! Our mutual friends would bust my chops saying his kids are throwing it around in the yard. Hey I did get to go to a lot of home games for free!
Skiba  
McNally's_Nuts : 5/26/2018 9:19 pm : link
can go hang out with Charlie Samuels now
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