Ereck Flowers impressing

In comment 13978963 ZGiants98 said:

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I’m excited about the line for the first time in a loooong time. If Flowers can emerge at RT we will essentially have 4 new starters heading into 2018. For the first time in forever we might actually have hope this line won’t be an abomination. If that’s the case, Eli is going to have a big year.

I am just a little worried about C but I am very excited about Hernandez. I like Brett Jones but he does struggle with big physical DT's. He is a serviceable starter but I am hoping that Halapio surprises and wins the C job allowing Jones to serve as a solid backup. I have been a big fan of Wheeler since he was signed and I think another year on the bench will be good for him as he gets to add even more muscle to his frame to potentially take over for Flowers in a year.

Rich Seubert is my favorite Giants offensive linemen of all time. I know that's pretty random and he wasn't exactly the most talented but I loved the way he played. He got the most out of his abilities and he played with a mean streak that this line has sorely missed. I think Hernandez is that type of player and he will be an immediate boost to the line. I want a big, mean, physical offensive line.

is the phrase I’d use. No more McAdoo and the addition of Solder along with a presumably better HC means Flowers should finally improve. The question is how much.

While I don’t expect Shurmur to say anything negative, there still can be truth to his comments.

In comment 13978982 Bubba said:

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Flowers didn't exactly have the greatest role models during his young career.

Agreed Bubba. Solder is a smart, likable and outgoing dude with a ton of credibility. We simply have not had that around Flowers. Reese didn't want a veteran LT here threatening Flowers' job.

Solder's a very rich man, and a very willing and able teacher. We will find out if this is anything more than the Giants rightfully trying to change the Flowers narrative during the offseason. They did this before with all the Flowers/Hart working hard stuff.

if I didn't have to actually block somebody.

How can you really evaluate a lineman until they put on the pads and actually block somebody?

While I think the line could be solid with Wheeler at RT I am holding out hope that Flowers will put his best foot forward and work hard to have a solid season so that he receives a big contract in free agency. Flowers did have two very well respected offensive line coaches so far and he hasn't lived up to his draft position. I think that Rosenhaus, Shurmur, and Solder will be good for Flowers.

In comment 13978939 DennyInDenville said:

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I think he steps up and plays a pro bowl RT. He will get his payday somewhere else and then suck again. Drew Rosenhaus knows how to motivate his clients properly

I thought you said he was destined for a life of crime.

A good start, Shurmur typically doesn't rain praise when it's not warranted, albeit a small sample size either way for now.

In comment 13978966 djstat said:

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When he has to block someone on another team

That's not until August. So in the meantime, better to have positive reports than negative and that makes some people feel optimistic about EF.

In comment 13978990 UConn4523 said:

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is the phrase I’d use. No more McAdoo and the addition of Solder along with a presumably better HC means Flowers should finally improve. The question is how much. While I don’t expect Shurmur to say anything negative, there still can be truth to his comments.

Agree except to say McAdoo (imo) went out of his way to protect/praise EF. In addition to Rosenhaus and esp. Solder, don't discount possibility that EF's mindset, not having to be the OL "savior" at LT, and with a proven vet anchoring there, takes performance pressure off, allows him to relax a bit and grow into the RT position.

There was no leadership on the line. Flowers was a high pick and therefore felt entitled. Bring in a brand name like solder and all of a sudden flowers doesn’t feel like the big man on campus. I believe that acquisition has humbled him and beat him down more than any coach or teammate could do. If he wants to stay in this league and be a starting tackle start behaving like one. Who better to follow then nate solder

until you see him play. One thing that is encouraging is the time he is spending with Solder. It had been reported a couple of times that he never really interacted with any of the other lineman besides Hart. Could be a good sign for a couple of reasons 1) Nate could be the veteran mentor he never had in his career 2)OL performance is heavily dependent on cohesion.

Again, still need to see him play before I get excited.

he never will be.

Linemen in shorts in May = zero predictive value.

.

not blocking well

at any position the past few years. If he gets to below average it's an upgrade. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Wait until September and we will see.

This team will win a Super Bowl this year... that said... we are most likely not winning a super bowl this year...

A good start and see what happens. He has an actual veteran mentor in Solder and a former NFL OL coaching him in Ben Wilkerson. He has a coach who is open minded and positive and the culture of stinking rotten jerks seems to have ebbed. He seems like a follower type of guy, he's going with whatever the flow is and now it's positive maybe he turns the corner and figures it out. He's certainly big enough, athletic enough and strong enough.

and told him to get his shit together or kiss that big second deal goodbye

There's no contact. Everyone's a pro bowler in May.

but I'd settle for improvement and consistency.

.

I am not sure it was just a lack of good role models. Bobby Hart who always seemed to be with Flowers was reportedly a locker room cancer and Snacks almost went after him. Article linked below. I remember when Eli was benched, Hart was seen in the video clip almost Happy. I think he was one of Gino's supporters.

By just getting rid of Hart, Flowers was better off and now replacing Harts influence with Solders influence it might just be enough to give us the right tackle we need--at least for this year.
Link - ( New Window )

i will believe it when i see it. him, apple, eli looking good, etc

He's already better.
Solder, a vet with a good reputation and winning background, can be a better big brother to him than what we have had here the last 4 years.We
Hope he gets it, even if he moves on.

They may not even show up until preseason games.

Should be taken with a grain of salt, due to no contact, I think there is at least a little substance to them.

Shurmur seems to be a no nonsense guy, and neither he nor Gettleman owe Flowers anything. That's what I like about this whole offseason. None of the holdover Giants are owed anything by the coach or GM due to not being involved with drafting them or signing them.

If Flowers shits the bed, doesnt play well, or has a bad attitude, I dont see why they would keep him in the lineup. At the very least, Flowers seems to be playing nice and doing all the right things early-on. We wont know until training camp how this will translate on the field.

for him. Can't be stressed enough. He'll be down in a 3 pt. stance in a more traditional offense that is trying to wear down a D with the run game and rip chunk plays with play action. It's a lot harder to play DE against this kind of offense. Flowers will be blasting that smaller, lighter DE backwards instead of trying to pass block in space. The tables turn.

He's not really built for a helter skelter, hurry up and snap it offense where he's standing up all day, chasing people around.

What if he turns it around and has a great season? Flowers is still young. How good a season does he have to have to remain a Giant? Top 10 RT? Pro Bowl?

There’s a lot we know and a lot we don’t know. He’s not very good at LT. He also did not get too much help on the left side in part because the lineman on the right side was even weaker.

Some media and people here have called him lazy, a cancer on the team and stuff like that. Who knows ? Here are 2 things we know. As a rookie, playing out of position, he got a high ankle sprain and never missed a game. Not easy to do. He also spent the winter a year before last in New Jersey working at the team facility. That may sound like no big deal but having spent winters in south Florida, I can tell you that Florida people hate the winters in the Northeast. That showed effort to me as did playing on a high ankle sprain. So, when I read that he’s lazy, something doesn’t make sense.

There’s no question that he was overdrafted, But, it would not surprise me if he became a decent RT and that would go a long way here

I have seen the difference in my professional life where an incompetent leader was replaced by a person who handled leadership easily. Looking at the top we see Gettleman, a tough minded guy who has pointed the Giants in the right direction, and a HC like Shurmur, who likes his job, sets a proper tone, and knows what needs to be done, and how to do it. Nate Solder, Flowers and Wheeler are working well together. Having an experienced and respected player like Solder mentoring, will help both younger players.

but that did not even remotely happen last year despite the "glowing reviews" we heard from summer camp and BBI-observers during preseason games about how improved he looked.

He sucked from start to finish in 2017, much like the rest of that O-line and Offense. You may have felt he was better during the middle of the season because he didn't "give up sacks" but that is folly as it is measuring improvement on one of the more subjective statistics in pro football.

I am not certain he can lock down the RT job, but even if he does, it is tough to imagine he is not just a "one-hit" wonder that will be playing somewhere else in 2018, or no where.

Let me know who you think takes over in 2018...

In comment 13979012 ColHowPepper said:

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In comment 13978990 UConn4523 said: Quote: is the phrase I’d use. No more McAdoo and the addition of Solder along with a presumably better HC means Flowers should finally improve. The question is how much. While I don’t expect Shurmur to say anything negative, there still can be truth to his comments. Agree except to say McAdoo (imo) went out of his way to protect/praise EF. In addition to Rosenhaus and esp. Solder, don't discount possibility that EF's mindset, not having to be the OL "savior" at LT, and with a proven vet anchoring there, takes performance pressure off, allows him to relax a bit and grow into the RT position.

I agree. By no more McAdoo I just meant, no more clueless coach who had no handle on this team...his franchise QB, his LT, no one. I agree with the pressure aspect especially, he can just work at getting better instead of working towards what has been impossible for him to date - play LT at a high enough level.

I agree with you guys saying better leadership in the locker room was an obvious early focus for DG, and could really help Flowers

End of last season he seemed according to some to give less than 100% and maybe develop an attitude problem when the rest of the team fell apart. Prior to that he has played through injury and apparently worked hard. Why wouldn't he show improvement with a new coaching staff, a clean slate, and lining up for the first time at the spot all his bbi critics have always claimed is his natural position ?

And is off to a “good” start this spring. You know who else looks good this time of year? About 50-60 guys on every roster in the entire league. Considering it’s Flowers, color me unimpressed.

I hope Flowers can make the transition to RT.....Problem is there is not much competition for him.....Wheeler? Backup material....

But I think he will be a one year rental.....

No doubt, his agent explained the facts of life to him....he is playing for his next contract.....it could be a vet min one year contract, a multiyear deal, or if he fails, the end of the road....

And play close to the first year value of the contract he might be offered by the Giants.

In comment 13979500 Ivan15 said:

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And play close to the first year value of the contract he might be offered by the Giants.

Not quite certain that's how teams come to their evaluations.

I believe he can anchor much better than Jones.....he could be our answer at center.

I have always felt it was a mistake to put Flowers at LT. I always saw him as RT. At best.....if he delivers, that would be great......AND yet another example of the previous regime incompetence.

a weaker position than RT or RG?

RE: competition at RT.

Unfortunately at this time it appears Flowers will be handed the RT spot after being handed a starting position since he got here.

It would be nice if the Giants could pick up a vet OT to threaten his job.

but I'm not sure if it's worth much. It's OTA's, how bad to you have to be to suck without pads? I thought he was better last year than many were willing to give him credit for, so I'm hopeful that he'll be an efficient RT. My main concern is his attitude, how will he take to the position change, and if he is into it, that's a great sign.

from Flowers?

The frustration has always been that the consistent performance isn't there in games. I legitimately can't remember a time where the practices were showing that he was sucking it up.

In comment 13978973 BillyM said:

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He is not the smartest nor most mature guy in the locker room. He strikes me as a guy that needs a very unique coaching personality to get the best out of him. I posted weeks ago about how impressed I was with Shurmur to date. Seems to have that it factor regarding communication and connecting to players. This is evident with guys like OBJ already. MY thoughts exactly. I was going to post these same comments. Thanks. He comes off very sincere, direct, and almost fatherly. He just might be exactly what Flowers needed.

In comment 13979839 jfosterBigBlue said:

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In comment 13978973 BillyM said: Quote: He is not the smartest nor most mature guy in the locker room. He strikes me as a guy that needs a very unique coaching personality to get the best out of him. I posted weeks ago about how impressed I was with Shurmur to date. Seems to have that it factor regarding communication and connecting to players. This is evident with guys like OBJ already. He comes off very sincere, direct, and almost fatherly. He just might be exactly what Flowers needed.

Sorry - goofed that up the first time...

MY thoughts exactly. I was going to post these same comments. Thanks.

The good news is that Flowers is motivated this year (it sounded as if he were also motivated last year). However, the better news is that if Flowers flounders, Wheeler is ready to take over and will be able to handle the ORT position without much of a loss in talent in pass blocking.

I think he will win the spot and be at least solid I know
thats asking for a lot but I think he is capable he had a
decent stretch last year in pass protection It would be great to see him lock down the RT spot it would go a long
ways in the re-build of the line hat to see a top 10 pick
wasted so just take a wait and see approach and hope for
the best .

more than anything else. If he is getting involved with Flowers this is good stuff IMO.