Nothing earth shattering here - and I know I am not coming up with new thoughts. This is simply to help me (maybe you?) put into words where this franchise is going with this draft class and offseason overall.
Route 1:
*All in on the next QB*
Even though they lost a valuable piece of currency to trade up from #6 - they have the ammo to get up to number three. #6, the 2025 first, and another day 2 pick (this year or next) should get it done. No question. I feel confident this can be done. because ATL is the only realistic team within striking distance of getting up that high. LV? MIN? DEN? Getting to #3 from outside of top ten is almost unheard of.
If they have the franchise QB grade on three guys - they can sit back and just wait to see who escapes the top 2. If they only have that outlook on 1-2 guys - that is where this gets tricky. On the flip side - if they have similar grades on 4 guys - the cost for moving to 4 (or 5) won't cost as much. I have to think they would have a preference, however.
Based on past profiles (which is not the end all) - I think FO would lean toward Maye. He has issues that need to be fixed - but they have the season-plus to fix and develop.
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Route 2:
*Punt on QB. Continue to build this offense with 2025 in mind.*
NYG will wait to address long term QB in 2025. They will have some spending flexibility if a Dak Prescott shakes free or they could be the top destination for whatever veteran comes available. And yes - there will be some prime draft candidates in next year's crop.
But without knowing where you'll be sitting slot wise - this seems like a stretch. This philosophy centers around building the nucleus so well that it almost won't matter who is under center as long as the guy is somewhat capable. See Detroit and Jared Goff. See Los Angeles and Matthew Stafford.
Taking this route allows NYG to go after a true #1 WR prospect or a high-end OT prospect. Based on numbers alone - they will have one or both of those options available at #6. You develop them in year one and expect them to be REAL DUDES in year two.
The last variable here is shopping #6 to teams looking for a QB. NO, DEN, MIN...if NYG can load up on extra 2025 draft picks - it widens the possibility of getting whatever QB they want in next year's draft in addition to extra capital.
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Route 3:
*Take the defensive player you want*
I do not see any scenario where a defensive player comes off the board before #6. One could make the argument we do not see one in the top 10. If NYG has a high enough grade on any of them (any position) - you get that final blue chip piece.
I know, offense offense offense. NYG is so far away from contenders on that side of the ball. Remember NYG fans - you can never have enough pass rushers. Ever. NYG could have whichever one they want at #6, possibly even after a slight trade down (#10 if NYJ needs an OT1?)
The move for Brian Burns is encouraging to me. Why? I said this last year - this team has zero identity. None whatsoever. They haven't had one for years. We thought it would be Odell + Barkley...explosive plays left and right. We thought it could be ground and pound once the former was traded to Cleveland. We thought it could be an efficient offense after year one of Daboll.
Fail, fail, fail. When others zig - you need to zag. Everyone (almost) in the NFL is pursuing explosive plays and scoring more points. Why not try to build an elite defense? There are pieces in place for this to happen - but there is a need for more weaponry. You get another pass rusher in here and he hits? Now NYG can say they have something nobody else has.
And, of course - you find the QB in 2025.
What do we think? I know I have a preference on which direction I want - but I do think a case can be made for any of the three.
Remember - open minds.
based on their signing of Brissett and seemingly not pursuing a more credible starting option, I think they are going QB and draft starts at #4.
Guys, we are in position to get a franchise qb in a strong QB draft class with no guarantee we will be in this position again, and no guarantee next year will be great. That's how Daniel Jones got drafted.
It's a QB. Period.
i just hope we’re able to finesse this. The top 3 seem impenetrable via trade right now and 4 or 5 are possible trade destinations for other QB needy teams.
Can we stay at 6 and take McCarthy? That is the sweet spot. We can then address needs like WR, S, DT, etc.
Try for strategy #1, and default to #3 if you can't get NE's pick.
My thought- opinion- is for the Giants to complete the pivot. They let Saquan walk, and I am OK with that, and they traded for and signed Burns, which I am more than OK with. The final piece is the QB. Do it now, be aggressive if you need to be to trade up and get the guy you really like. You cannot rely on 2025 for a QB- too many unknowns. Get it done now!! Complete the pivot.
After Marvin he may be as talented as Rome or Malik
With the additional second rounder. Now we have two
Get Nate Wiggins or Quinyon and have two very young and very good bookends at CB
With the other second rounder DT. I’m all in on Tvondre Sweat. Between him and Dex the run defense will be solid and KT and AO and Burns our pass rush is solid
I’m all for waiting to see how DJ looks and I do like Locke
If all else fails with QB then draft one next year but these other positions will be solid
It’s the team’s most glaring need and sitting at 6 with ammo to move up - they maty not be in a better position for a long time. Get one of the guy(s) you think has the potential to be a top-10 QB or better. Nothing will be more impactful to success than having the right guy under center.
If all they want is Maye, then they better trade up. If they can't, then we could see the option 2 above plus potentially take a 4th rd flier on Fields or sign Tannehill.
If I knew their QB rankings I could guess much better
I don't think a number 1 WR will help this years team because I have a very low opinion of our QB - and I do think he going to be the QB next year whether they pick a QB in the draft or not.
I am not in favor of spending another 1rst round pick on the Oline -- I would like to see whether our new OLine coordinator can make hash out of what we have and spending that kind of draft capital is really long range planning and crowding the roster - and maybe even creating a more frustrating situation. I would spend a draft pick on oline -- but not at 6 this year
I am totally in favor of stacking the defense and creating a real powerhouse there
I think this coaching staff can make hay with a strong defense and get enough out of the offense to win some games and be respectible
What if the Vikings trade Justin Jefferson to the Cardinals in a trade for #4? Then LA has a chance at MHjr at #5.
based on their signing of Brissett and seemingly not pursuing a more credible starting option, I think they are going QB and draft starts at #4.
Hard to peg what new management will do. They have time - they won't feel pressure. If they have the "special" grade on Alt or Harrison Jr....it is had to argue against if they don't have the grade on remaining QBs.
Guys, we are in position to get a franchise qb in a strong QB draft class with no guarantee we will be in this position again, and no guarantee next year will be great. That's how Daniel Jones got drafted.
It's a QB. Period.
What if they don't have the grade on 4 QBs?
And you could...maybe...just not open the thread if you're actually sick of it :)
This teams needs talent at so many positions I can't see giving up 2025 draft capital to move up to 3 especially when it's Mayes or McCarthy.
Get extra 2025 picks, draft BPA and make a move next year for a QB either through the draft, Free agency or trade.
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think they can sit still and get a QB at 6. For Minny at pick 11 to move up to 5 is going to cost a lot and will they do that for QB4? Not sure that will be the case. If not we can take the top WR available. We can trade down and take a Nix or Penix. We can trade down twice and get Newton to play DT next to Lawerence. You can draft a QB in round 2 or 3. They can take flyer on Joe Milton to see if Dabs could develop him. I mean there is a lot we can do and who knows what we will do. I think we move to pick 5 for a 4th rounder and take our QB though.
What if the Vikings trade Justin Jefferson to the Cardinals in a trade for #4? Then LA has a chance at MHjr at #5.
Again that is a lot for a chance to draft QB4. Unless they just want to unload JJ why would they do that? As I stated though I would either trade down and a take a Nix/Penix later or take the top WR available.
You are a year away from paying Fields money and two years away from big money. Economically it does not make as much sense.
If they covet the top 3 but can't get them, a small trade down can net them Nix/Penix and they get an addl pick.
I really dont want to lose that 25 1st. I think JS has many contingencies but there will be a price he wont go beyond to get into the top 3.
My thought- opinion- is for the Giants to complete the pivot. They let Saquan walk, and I am OK with that, and they traded for and signed Burns, which I am more than OK with. The final piece is the QB. Do it now, be aggressive if you need to be to trade up and get the guy you really like. You cannot rely on 2025 for a QB- too many unknowns. Get it done now!! Complete the pivot.
What if you can get a 9 put of 10 QB in 2025
And a 7 out of 10 in 2024
Which do you want?
Where it gets dicey is if the QB they want isn’t available and/or no one will trade.
In that case, I would think the play would be to trade down and plan on using 25 to get the QB while using 24 to continue building the core.
I do think Schoen wants to move up for Maye, but I think he'll be taken by Washington. The question is whether he would move up for Daniels. I hope not. His thin frame worries me. I also hope he doesn't move up for JJM. There is a high chance JJM is available at #6, and if he isn't, it's because somebody offered a historic amount of draft capital to move up to #4 or #5. Let them do it. Don't get into "bidding wars" for players.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
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imo it would be stupid for Pats to pass on a QB unless they have 2 guys way above whoever QB3 is. and it would certainly be crazy for them to trade that pick before knowing who goes #2 even if #1 is already decided.
based on their signing of Brissett and seemingly not pursuing a more credible starting option, I think they are going QB and draft starts at #4.
Hard to peg what new management will do. They have time - they won't feel pressure. If they have the "special" grade on Alt or Harrison Jr....it is had to argue against if they don't have the grade on remaining QBs.
dont you think a 1 year deal on brissett is a tell?
maybe they view fields or jimmy g or something like that as a viable play and brissett is pure backup plan for either a rookie or veteran, but with this QB class id be pretty shocked if they pass on QB.
I do think Schoen wants to move up for Maye, but I think he'll be taken by Washington. The question is whether he would move up for Daniels. I hope not. His thin frame worries me. I also hope he doesn't move up for JJM. There is a high chance JJM is available at #6, and if he isn't, it's because somebody offered a historic amount of draft capital to move up to #4 or #5. Let them do it. Don't get into "bidding wars" for players.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
If NE moves forward with Brissett - it is safe to assume they will be top 5 again next year with NYG's first also in hand. And an extra day 2 pick.
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but I would be exploring trading for Fields. I don't care for Maye at all. I'd be good with Daniels or McCarthy but if you can get Fields for a 4th and draft the best WR at 6 this would be a great alternative. Fields is making no money right now and it would take very little draft capital to acquire him.
You are a year away from paying Fields money and two years away from big money. Economically it does not make as much sense.
You get a full year to assess while being able to draft an elite WR at 6 this year. Worst case scenario is Fields sucks and you are back in this spot next year. Costs very little in draft capital to get Fields. The upside is that Fields is a good QB and you've already started to build around him. This is of course if Schoen doesn't care for Maye or McCarthy. I personally like McCarthy and don't like Maye.
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In comment 16430292 Doubledeuce22 said:
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but I would be exploring trading for Fields. I don't care for Maye at all. I'd be good with Daniels or McCarthy but if you can get Fields for a 4th and draft the best WR at 6 this would be a great alternative. Fields is making no money right now and it would take very little draft capital to acquire him.
You are a year away from paying Fields money and two years away from big money. Economically it does not make as much sense.
You get a full year to assess while being able to draft an elite WR at 6 this year. Worst case scenario is Fields sucks and you are back in this spot next year. Costs very little in draft capital to get Fields. The upside is that Fields is a good QB and you've already started to build around him. This is of course if Schoen doesn't care for Maye or McCarthy. I personally like McCarthy and don't like Maye.
You have to decide on Fields 5th year option for 25 million this May. You trade for him you almost have to agree to that so you are on the hook for 25 million next year and a lot the years after.
Slight trade down (9-14), draft best WR/OT.
Then either draft back up in late 1 or stay at 2 for next tier QB.
With the trade down, hopefully they picked up draft capital for 2025 as well and re-evaulate QB then.
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for the input, but I don't think the Giants are getting to #3 for #6, a day two pick, and our one next year. NE has no QB and the franchise is in the doldrums, just like the Giants. A new QB gives a team and its fanbase hope. And when will they be in this position again? The only caveat is that they may be OK with getting a QB next year, but that is a risky proposition as I said. It certainly isn't a given that they will be able to do so.
I do think Schoen wants to move up for Maye, but I think he'll be taken by Washington. The question is whether he would move up for Daniels. I hope not. His thin frame worries me. I also hope he doesn't move up for JJM. There is a high chance JJM is available at #6, and if he isn't, it's because somebody offered a historic amount of draft capital to move up to #4 or #5. Let them do it. Don't get into "bidding wars" for players.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
If NE moves forward with Brissett - it is safe to assume they will be top 5 again next year with NYG's first also in hand. And an extra day 2 pick.
not only will they be top 5 but they will be at March 10 2025 with no QB under contract.
they are going to add someone else beyond brissett this offseason to compete to start, the question is who. i think the most obvious answer is their plan A is someone at #3 (though it's possible they dont have a QB3 that makes the grade).
I would risk the overpay to move up and get our hands on one of the top 3 QBs.
WR is an okay outcome at #6 with Nabers or Odunze on board. Anything else at that spot and I would likely be disappointed in how this shook out.
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In comment 16430278 Eric on Li said:
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imo it would be stupid for Pats to pass on a QB unless they have 2 guys way above whoever QB3 is. and it would certainly be crazy for them to trade that pick before knowing who goes #2 even if #1 is already decided.
based on their signing of Brissett and seemingly not pursuing a more credible starting option, I think they are going QB and draft starts at #4.
Hard to peg what new management will do. They have time - they won't feel pressure. If they have the "special" grade on Alt or Harrison Jr....it is had to argue against if they don't have the grade on remaining QBs.
dont you think a 1 year deal on brissett is a tell?
maybe they view fields or jimmy g or something like that as a viable play and brissett is pure backup plan for either a rookie or veteran, but with this QB class id be pretty shocked if they pass on QB.
People said the same thing about Mayfield and TB last year. Different situations, I know.
But it could be just about keeping the situation clear for 2025. Again - only if they view Harrison as special. That team needs WR1 as bad as they need QB1
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I always appreciate your view.
My thought- opinion- is for the Giants to complete the pivot. They let Saquan walk, and I am OK with that, and they traded for and signed Burns, which I am more than OK with. The final piece is the QB. Do it now, be aggressive if you need to be to trade up and get the guy you really like. You cannot rely on 2025 for a QB- too many unknowns. Get it done now!! Complete the pivot.
What if you can get a 9 put of 10 QB in 2025
And a 7 out of 10 in 2024
Which do you want?
Sy,
Do you have any feeling on who could be viable franchise QB's that might be in the 2025 draft?
I can tell you I think there will be 4 QBs worth going for at 6. That does not mean NYG will.
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for the input, but I don't think the Giants are getting to #3 for #6, a day two pick, and our one next year. NE has no QB and the franchise is in the doldrums, just like the Giants. A new QB gives a team and its fanbase hope. And when will they be in this position again? The only caveat is that they may be OK with getting a QB next year, but that is a risky proposition as I said. It certainly isn't a given that they will be able to do so.
I do think Schoen wants to move up for Maye, but I think he'll be taken by Washington. The question is whether he would move up for Daniels. I hope not. His thin frame worries me. I also hope he doesn't move up for JJM. There is a high chance JJM is available at #6, and if he isn't, it's because somebody offered a historic amount of draft capital to move up to #4 or #5. Let them do it. Don't get into "bidding wars" for players.
Stay at #6 and take JJM, or if he's gone, take Odunze or Nabers or maybe trade down. Massive move ups for QBs rarely work. See Sam Darnold, RGIII, Trey Lance, and Mitch Trubisky.
If NE moves forward with Brissett - it is safe to assume they will be top 5 again next year with NYG's first also in hand. And an extra day 2 pick.
Can't assume anything, especially in sports. NE could be a middle of the pack team next year. Right now they are in a position to draft a QB without having to give up draft capital to do so. We might also have a bad record and finish in the top five of the draft. The Giants still have a lot of holes.
This QB class in my view is overrated and overhyped. I wouldn't be surprised if none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or JJM became franchise QBs. Same for Penix, Rattler, and Pratt. One might, two or three others might be journeyman like Darnold, and the rest will be out of the league in a few years.
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In comment 16430305 johnnyb said:
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I always appreciate your view.
My thought- opinion- is for the Giants to complete the pivot. They let Saquan walk, and I am OK with that, and they traded for and signed Burns, which I am more than OK with. The final piece is the QB. Do it now, be aggressive if you need to be to trade up and get the guy you really like. You cannot rely on 2025 for a QB- too many unknowns. Get it done now!! Complete the pivot.
What if you can get a 9 put of 10 QB in 2025
And a 7 out of 10 in 2024
Which do you want?
Sy,
Do you have any feeling on who could be viable franchise QB's that might be in the 2025 draft?
Beck (Georgia) and Milroe (Alabama) have the upside for it. Couple others can rise like Daniels did.
I don't see that being the plan. Just creates more gray area.
* And for the record I very much am anti-Jones, but we're likely stuck with him for at least a year.
But we can't waive the white flag. Getting the best player available and eating a shit sandwich on QB for another year is a nasty proposition, but so is reliving the Daniel Jones pick i.e. reaching for a dud at #6 and trying to develop him for 2, 3, 4 years.
Being absolutely set at lead receiver is something to consider as being the best move for the organization BEYOND this regime's lifespan.
Some on this board are trying hedge their disappointment by talking themselves into Nix or Penix at #6. Hell, I secretly wouldn't even mind Penix on the Giants under the right circumstances, but reaching far down the consensus draft board out of desperation is just more of the same. You can't reconcile the rightful criticism of NYG the last 10 years and also be an advocate of drafting anyone who was a quarterback in college football last year at #6. Manufacture a safe trade down to recoup some picks. Something.
dont you think a 1 year deal on brissett is a tell?
maybe they view fields or jimmy g or something like that as a viable play and brissett is pure backup plan for either a rookie or veteran, but with this QB class id be pretty shocked if they pass on QB.
People said the same thing about Mayfield and TB last year. Different situations, I know.
But it could be just about keeping the situation clear for 2025. Again - only if they view Harrison as special. That team needs WR1 as bad as they need QB1
i'd say different players more than situation, Brissett will be 32 and he has been a pretty pure backup for 4 straight years on 4 different teams now. i guess geno smith did it but seattle also had lock on his rookie deal competing with him, which was at least a live option. even tampa had trask last year.
that's to me the tell w/ Brissett - the Pats are 100% going to bring in someone to compete to start with him, and if that's the case i think it's enormously likely their plan A is #3 pick.