Giants are going to miss out on a QB because of pointless games won in a year that was over by halftime of the first game.
I have heard people say not to draft a QB this year just because you need one, and you don't want to shop while desperate. Here's the thing: they are desperate, and not picking a QB this year will make them even more desperate next year
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
The Giants have a better chance at making the playoffs than picking 1. I know you like the dramatics, but tell me when the Giants have picked number 1 in the last decade of crap football. It's hard to do and requires luck. I also think Daboll is too good a coach for that to happen.
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
Different coach, they just traded Mac Jones, I mean, there are no certainties, but I'd wager they take a QB.
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
They can still trade up, but at what cost? This year’s first, next year’s first, and both this year and next year’s second rounders? That would be a big hit to building the rest of the team out. There are clear needs at WR, CB, DT.
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
Agreed. I still think it's about 80% likely they do so, but there have been rumors they are willing to trade down and get picks to restock their roster. They may also think that Nix/Penix/Rattler plus picks from a trade down is a greater value than Maye/Daniels/McCarthy.
The problem is that this is a deep QB class, and they can draft one right now without having to trade up. Who knows where they will be drafting next year?
RE: The Giants still have more draft capital than Minnesota does
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Excellent analysis, except I thought I read that the Vikings said they won't be trading Jefferson.
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
Agreed. I still think it's about 80% likely they do so, but there have been rumors they are willing to trade down and get picks to restock their roster. They may also think that Nix/Penix/Rattler plus picks from a trade down is a greater value than Maye/Daniels/McCarthy.
The problem is that this is a deep QB class, and they can draft one right now without having to trade up. Who knows where they will be drafting next year?
Oh, they are going to have to trade up if they want one. That is obvious.
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
I don't see any way the Vikings move Jefferson. I think part of the calculus for them is to get a QB on a rookie deal so that they can pay Jefferson
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Excellent analysis, except I thought I read that the Vikings said they won't be trading Jefferson.
they probably wont, players of his caliber at age 24 dont get traded. they would be within their rights to value him beyond 2 firsts even with the contract situation.
im sure if either of NE/AZ will trade without Jefferson and he's willing to extend despite a rookie QB they would prefer to send picks. I dont think any of that is certain though. Arizona may not be willing to give up MHJ and NE may be in the QB game themselves.
they could end up in a spot where jefferson is the only asset that allows them to get to #3 or #4 because that is the only thing those teams like better than the players they can take at 3/4 (the obvious one being MHJ).
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
The fear is that the vikings did this with a deal in place. It just would seem odd that they would do this without that. it is so hard to know how valuable the 23rd pick will be 45 days before the draft.
to make KT available to seal a move up - assuming it's real.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
Stop and step away from whatever device you're using. We aren't trading a cost controlled edge who has double digit sack numbers under his belt. NO.
^This. I'd be stunned if KT was included in any trade package. Schoen wouldn't do it any more than Accorsi would include Osi in the 2004 trade with SD to get Eli.
I would be open to trading Neal as part of a package to move up, but again, I don't think Schoen would do so.
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
I don't see any way the Vikings move Jefferson. I think part of the calculus for them is to get a QB on a rookie deal so that they can pay Jefferson
what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
He only just had surgeries in January because he also suffered a significant injury to his MCL which will require additional post-surgery procedures/rehab. All seems to be going well, but timeline is what it is.
His recovery timeline is AT LEAST 9 months. Vikings have said they won't rush him back and expect he may not be ready until early-mid October. He's basically going to be a non-factor for 7-8 weeks even in best case.
Cool. This is going to really get interesting over next several weeks
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
One thing to keep in mind with the Lance trade. Almost immediately after Miami traded back to 12 they then went back to 6. So the overall net move for them was really from 3 to 6.
think there is a real possibility that Chicago, Washington, and New England have turned down every trade offer because they want to take a QB. Or what they're asking to move down is just too much for any team. That means only McCarthy or Daniels, probably the former, will be available starting at #4. Minnesota may already have a deal with Arizona because they're concerned that the Cardinals might trade with the Giants to allow us to take McCarthy.
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
The fear is that the vikings did this with a deal in place. It just would seem odd that they would do this without that. it is so hard to know how valuable the 23rd pick will be 45 days before the draft.
Very true. However, it also possible that the teams the Vikings were talking to said that they would not seriously entertain a trade offer unless the Vikings got another first rounder this year because the move back to #11 is so steep
think there is a real possibility that Chicago, Washington, and New England have turned down every trade offer because they want to take a QB. Or what they're asking to move down is just too much for any team. That means only McCarthy or Daniels, probably the former, will be available starting at #4. Minnesota may already have a deal with Arizona because they're concerned that the Cardinals might trade with the Giants to allow us to take McCarthy.
Whatever happens, you just always make sure you have a pivot.
Problem with that is falling from 3 to 11 for the Cardinals. They already have a loaded draft capital. They need talent. Falling to 6, however, still enables them to get Harrison or Odunze.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Loading up to jump NYG
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
He only just had surgeries in January because he also suffered a significant injury to his MCL which will require additional post-surgery procedures/rehab. All seems to be going well, but timeline is what it is.
His recovery timeline is AT LEAST 9 months. Vikings have said they won't rush him back and expect he may not be ready until early-mid October. He's basically going to be a non-factor for 7-8 weeks even in best case.
As I stated they had surgery later than Hockenson and all were back for Week 1, but even if you say he misses the entire season the Vikings offense with their OL, Jefferson, Addison & Jones is significantly better than the Giants offense.
think there is a real possibility that Chicago, Washington, and New England have turned down every trade offer because they want to take a QB. Or what they're asking to move down is just too much for any team. That means only McCarthy or Daniels, probably the former, will be available starting at #4. Minnesota may already have a deal with Arizona because they're concerned that the Cardinals might trade with the Giants to allow us to take McCarthy.
The thing with Arizona is that they already have a ton of draft capital in the first 3 rounds: 2 1sts (4, 27), 1 2nd (35th), and 3 3rd's (66, 71, 90). Is it really worth it then to pass up the chance to draft MHJ or move down a few slots and get Odunze, Nabers or Alt? I know if I were a Cardinals fan I'd be pretty pissed off about that given their current WR room.
Tommy Cutlets meaningless wins. Those wins didn’t build culture nor did they develop players the Giants will rely on moving forward. They made getting THE QB of the future much more difficult and will probably cost the franchise additional assets. I’m usually not cheering for a tank, but it was clearly needed here.
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
But it's not. You're hung up on "three #1's" without regard for the value of each of those picks. #6 is worth more than #11 by a degree that is greater than the difference between #23 and #47, according to leaguewide generally-accepted draft slot valuation.
Could another team prefer Minnesota's draft pick package? Sure. But it's not a sure thing by any stretch, and the general valuation of each team's implied best 3-pick offer does slightly favor the Giants.
There's no reason to deny that other than your own hope that the Giants don't empty the cupboard. But at least say that.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
9m
If you're the Patriots or the Cardinals, would you rather have No. 6 and 2025 1st rounder from Giants or No. 11 and No. 23 this year from Vikings?
If Giants want their QB bad enough and it takes their 1 from next year, do it.
That First Rounder next season could be the #1 overall pick in the Draft!
That is correct. They made this deal as step one of two parts. You don't make this deal unless you have something in place already.
I have heard people say not to draft a QB this year just because you need one, and you don't want to shop while desperate. Here's the thing: they are desperate, and not picking a QB this year will make them even more desperate next year
Quote:
In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Quote:
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
13s
As one GM told me after the combine: There are four Top 10 QBs in this draft (including J.J. McCarthy).
The Minnesota Vikings are loading up with ammunition to make sure they get one.
The No. 4 pick, owned by the Arizona Cardinals, is one to watch. Maybe No. 3 (Patriots) too?
The Giants need a QB. There is no reason to come out of this draft with no QB. None.
Sean -- I wish you would stop beating around the bush about what the Giants should in this Draft.
LOL
then the Giants get to choose from two out of three sure-fire wide receivers. That's not a bad place to be.
Fascinating stuff ahead. Some anxiety, but this is what makes draft fun (leading up to).
Different coach, they just traded Mac Jones, I mean, there are no certainties, but I'd wager they take a QB.
then the Giants get to choose from two out of three sure-fire wide receivers. That's not a bad place to be.
Well for them it is when they see who is throwing them the ball next season.
They can still trade up, but at what cost? This year’s first, next year’s first, and both this year and next year’s second rounders? That would be a big hit to building the rest of the team out. There are clear needs at WR, CB, DT.
Agreed. I still think it's about 80% likely they do so, but there have been rumors they are willing to trade down and get picks to restock their roster. They may also think that Nix/Penix/Rattler plus picks from a trade down is a greater value than Maye/Daniels/McCarthy.
The problem is that this is a deep QB class, and they can draft one right now without having to trade up. Who knows where they will be drafting next year?
This is the truth. This is the logic. But I think you should panic instead.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Excellent analysis, except I thought I read that the Vikings said they won't be trading Jefferson.
Quote:
Are taking it for granted that NE is taking a QB and I'm not sure that's the case. Yes they definitely should take a QB, but the Pats always seem to go against the grain.
Agreed. I still think it's about 80% likely they do so, but there have been rumors they are willing to trade down and get picks to restock their roster. They may also think that Nix/Penix/Rattler plus picks from a trade down is a greater value than Maye/Daniels/McCarthy.
The problem is that this is a deep QB class, and they can draft one right now without having to trade up. Who knows where they will be drafting next year?
Oh, they are going to have to trade up if they want one. That is obvious.
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
Stop and step away from whatever device you're using. We aren't trading a cost controlled edge who has double digit sack numbers under his belt. NO.
Quote:
In comment 16432976 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
I don't see any way the Vikings move Jefferson. I think part of the calculus for them is to get a QB on a rookie deal so that they can pay Jefferson
Which would leave us one spot away from Marvin Harrison Jr....
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
Quote:
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
Excellent analysis, except I thought I read that the Vikings said they won't be trading Jefferson.
they probably wont, players of his caliber at age 24 dont get traded. they would be within their rights to value him beyond 2 firsts even with the contract situation.
im sure if either of NE/AZ will trade without Jefferson and he's willing to extend despite a rookie QB they would prefer to send picks. I dont think any of that is certain though. Arizona may not be willing to give up MHJ and NE may be in the QB game themselves.
they could end up in a spot where jefferson is the only asset that allows them to get to #3 or #4 because that is the only thing those teams like better than the players they can take at 3/4 (the obvious one being MHJ).
Quote:
to make KT available to seal a move up - assuming it's real.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
Stop and step away from whatever device you're using. We aren't trading a cost controlled edge who has double digit sack numbers under his belt. NO.
Why? And just to be clear, it's KT, not LT.
Quote:
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
The fear is that the vikings did this with a deal in place. It just would seem odd that they would do this without that. it is so hard to know how valuable the 23rd pick will be 45 days before the draft.
Quote:
to make KT available to seal a move up - assuming it's real.
And I agree the time to execute a move is sooner rather than later. There is no advantage in waiting at this point. It's a QB arms race.
Stop and step away from whatever device you're using. We aren't trading a cost controlled edge who has double digit sack numbers under his belt. NO.
^This. I'd be stunned if KT was included in any trade package. Schoen wouldn't do it any more than Accorsi would include Osi in the 2004 trade with SD to get Eli.
I would be open to trading Neal as part of a package to move up, but again, I don't think Schoen would do so.
Quote:
3 firsts including the #12 pick in the 2021 draft.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
I don't see any way the Vikings move Jefferson. I think part of the calculus for them is to get a QB on a rookie deal so that they can pay Jefferson
what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
Quote:
concerns me a bit. Nothing against Burns, but QB is the biggest need on this team and they just traded our high second rounder for him which would have been a valuable piece to move up for QB.
This is a valid point. We could have saved the pick and bought a better player in Hunter if adding a pass rushing was considered a must-have.
But let's see how this plays out. There is still a chance to execute. And the execution is best done ASAP.
I tell you what. The Pats could get a haul for that #3 spot if Eliot Wolf plays his cards right.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
If that were true, why would he extend with the Patriots?
thinks Justin Herbert is one of the most talented QB’s in the league and one of the main reasons he took the Chargers job.
Herbert isn’t going anywhere.
Quote:
In comment 16433014 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 16432976 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
He only just had surgeries in January because he also suffered a significant injury to his MCL which will require additional post-surgery procedures/rehab. All seems to be going well, but timeline is what it is.
His recovery timeline is AT LEAST 9 months. Vikings have said they won't rush him back and expect he may not be ready until early-mid October. He's basically going to be a non-factor for 7-8 weeks even in best case.
Hopefully, he doesn't turn off his cell phone.
vikings now have #11, #23, and can trade their first next year.
they also have jefferson in limbo.
if NE isn't sold on QB3 or AZ is willing to pass on MHJ, im pretty sure MIN is going to make an offer bigger than the NYG can match and that would suck.
this may sound crazy, but i think Minnesota's best offer is Jefferson + #11 to Arizona. They save 19m this year, 150m+ beyond that, and get 2 first round pick equivalent for Jefferson that gets them their QB of the future.
they still have Addison and they'd still have #23 in a good receiver draft. plus their 2025 first.
Arizona gets the best WR in football to pair with Kyler and all they have to do is move down to #11. They still get a premium first round pick to spend at another position.
as good as MH Jr may be, id bet against him being better than Jefferson.
One thing to keep in mind with the Lance trade. Almost immediately after Miami traded back to 12 they then went back to 6. So the overall net move for them was really from 3 to 6.
Quote:
Quote:
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
Really surprised at the reaction to the Vikings trade. The #Giants were always going to have to move up to land a QB.
Staying at No. 6 & landing a QB was highly unlikely. The fact that they are picking No. 6 benefits them. Maybe AZ or NE don’t want to go that far back? Both need a WR.
The fear is that the vikings did this with a deal in place. It just would seem odd that they would do this without that. it is so hard to know how valuable the 23rd pick will be 45 days before the draft.
Very true. However, it also possible that the teams the Vikings were talking to said that they would not seriously entertain a trade offer unless the Vikings got another first rounder this year because the move back to #11 is so steep
Whatever happens, you just always make sure you have a pivot.
If it means taking Nabers or Odunze, so be it.
Quote:
In comment 16433017 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 16433014 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 16432976 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 16432966 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 16432963 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Absolutely. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the Vikings would seem to have a roster that better suits a rookie QB starter than the Giants.
Thats highly questionable.
How do you figure? Their OL is better and they have one of the best groups of skill position guys in the NFL. I don't even think it's close tbh
Aaron Jones is cooked. Hockenson is hurt and going to miss huge chunk of time. Jefferson is about to become the most overpaid WR diva in NFL history.
Their OL is not better - it sucks and got Cousins beat to a pulp.
The Giants OL allowed 85 sacks last year. The Vikings OL allowed 47 sacks.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.6 YPC in the regular season last year. Then in 2 playoff games averaged 5.8 YPC. Not sure that's considered "cooked"
TJ Hockenson probably won't miss any time next year.
Wrong on Hockenson - he's going to start on IR.
If you say so. I don't have his medical records like you do, I'm just going off past NFL players. Michael Gallup, Jordyn Brooks & Chris Godwin have all torn their ACLs later than Hockenson and had surgery later than him yet still returned for week 1 the following season.
He only just had surgeries in January because he also suffered a significant injury to his MCL which will require additional post-surgery procedures/rehab. All seems to be going well, but timeline is what it is.
His recovery timeline is AT LEAST 9 months. Vikings have said they won't rush him back and expect he may not be ready until early-mid October. He's basically going to be a non-factor for 7-8 weeks even in best case.
As I stated they had surgery later than Hockenson and all were back for Week 1, but even if you say he misses the entire season the Vikings offense with their OL, Jefferson, Addison & Jones is significantly better than the Giants offense.
The thing with Arizona is that they already have a ton of draft capital in the first 3 rounds: 2 1sts (4, 27), 1 2nd (35th), and 3 3rd's (66, 71, 90). Is it really worth it then to pass up the chance to draft MHJ or move down a few slots and get Odunze, Nabers or Alt? I know if I were a Cardinals fan I'd be pretty pissed off about that given their current WR room.
I don't think there's any way the Giants traded that pick away without knowing what it would take to move up.
They've been contacting teams in the top 3 since January. I'm sure they are well aware of what it would taken to move up.
I can't believe the value of that Pats pick is static. What may be the value right now, could change in an hour. This should be viewed as an auction.
The talked with AZ who is staying in place to draft Harrison.
LA gets the (2) 2024 1sts and Jefferson.
Quote:
what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
If that were true, why would he extend with the Patriots?
that's why i mentioned arizona. i think the pats are likely to pass on trading and take a QB and arizona is the more likely trade target.
I agree and think this is the play in motion. We'll see if it works out.
Quote:
In comment 16432884 AcidTest said:
Quote:
wouldn't want them to try, but I don't think the Giants could match three #1's. My guess is the maximum the Giants would offer to move up is #47 and our #1 next year. That is a lot less than three #1's. As I said, if Minnesota wants to do this, then let them do so. Getting into bidding wars for players is a terrible draft strategy. And none of Williams, Maye, Daniels, or McCarthy should be confused with Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson. Stay at six or trade down.
The Giants 1st and 2nd rounders are more valuable than the 2 Minnesota 1's per this chart so they wouldn't have to match 3 1's necessarily. Minnesota also doesn't have a 2nd or 3rd this year or a 2nd next year Link - ( New Window )
I don't think a draft chart really matters much in this situation. Three #1's is better than #47 and our #1 next year IMO. Minnesota is likely to be very bad this year, so their #1 next year might well be a top 10 pick. (We could be as well, but I think our roster is better.)
But it's not. You're hung up on "three #1's" without regard for the value of each of those picks. #6 is worth more than #11 by a degree that is greater than the difference between #23 and #47, according to leaguewide generally-accepted draft slot valuation.
Could another team prefer Minnesota's draft pick package? Sure. But it's not a sure thing by any stretch, and the general valuation of each team's implied best 3-pick offer does slightly favor the Giants.
There's no reason to deny that other than your own hope that the Giants don't empty the cupboard. But at least say that.
Quote:
In comment 16433054 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
what if jefferson doesnt want to tie up 5+ prime years with a rookie QB?
If that were true, why would he extend with the Patriots?
that's why i mentioned arizona. i think the pats are likely to pass on trading and take a QB and arizona is the more likely trade target.
Trading JJ to get the 4th QB would be utterly insane
The talked with AZ who is staying in place to draft Harrison.
LA gets the (2) 2024 1sts and Jefferson.
2 firsts + jefferson would be an overpay. LAC also has a tough cap situation.
not impossible but doesnt seem like harbough move.
Quote:
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
9m
If you're the Patriots or the Cardinals, would you rather have No. 6 and 2025 1st rounder from Giants or No. 11 and No. 23 this year from Vikings?
If Giants want their QB bad enough and it takes their 1 from next year, do it.
That First Rounder next season could be the #1 overall pick in the Draft!
Or the 32nd.
No one manages the way you're suggesting.