This is a you tube video of Patty Traina speaking with a Panthers beat reporter
First I agree with Patty that the best signing was Eleumenor.He may start at guard, he gives insurance in Neal does not improve or Thomas gets hurt. It was not a big contract. The O line coach certainly knows what he is getting.
The reporter said that Burns last year admitted that he did not always put out full effort because he was not happy with his contract. That's not a good sign.
Burns had time as an edge linebacker and a 4-3 end. His only year with 10 sacks was as a 4-3 end and he was more productive in that position. Perhaps in passing situations they will put him on the line and bring in Ojulari so they will have Burns KT Dex and Ojulari on the field.
Burns may turn out to be an excellent player. Good that the giants are focused on the o line and the front 7. But for me I think when we see the board early in the second round we will be sorry that we do not have the pick. The Burns contract is as large as that given to Christian Wilkens and Danielle Hunter.The giants could have signed one of the biggest names in FA or a good front seven and a good corner and kept the pick.For me JS is too willing to give up picks.
locked on giants - (
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Giant fans should be overjoyed by this move.
You'd rather have a 2nd round pick instead of Burns where the odds you draft a player as good as Burns is ridiculously low. Yes, Burns is getting paid, but there is a better chance the Giants 2nd round pick is a total bust than even half as good as Burns.
you did not think this out.
we got him in a discount as an acquisition cost (if you use AJ Brown and the first rounder as a measuring stick), but we paid big money for him and he is not a discount on the salary cap. He must preform. I am excited about him, but the discount is only in the acquisition--not in the salary. thus, if he is not a hard worker and it affects his play, the cost is substantial. Now, of course, I have no idea if this report is true and I think burns is great, but this needs to work for us whether the acquisition cost was cheap or market value.
You'd rather have a 2nd round pick instead of Burns where the odds you draft a player as good as Burns is ridiculously low. Yes, Burns is getting paid, but there is a better chance the Giants 2nd round pick is a total bust than even half as good as Burns.
you did not think this out.
This. Fans sure do like their draft picks. Maybe it’s because the draft has been the most exciting part of the Giants season for so long but complaining about a 2nd round pick when we got Brian Burns is a bit much
Giant fans should be overjoyed by this move.
Exactly -there is no one in this draft that matches his qualities.. he is going to thrive here especially if we can run and block on the OL
opportunity cost - what else you could have done
with the money. Burns got one of the highest contracts
given to a defensive player. They could have gotten very
good player or players with that money and kept the
pick.
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we went out improved the roster for a discount, many believe. You can want for them to never use picks and always get their FA targets, but that’s a really strange way to approach fandom. It also doesn’t factor in how often UFAs don’t live up to their pricetag.
we got him in a discount as an acquisition cost (if you use AJ Brown and the first rounder as a measuring stick), but we paid big money for him and he is not a discount on the salary cap. He must preform. I am excited about him, but the discount is only in the acquisition--not in the salary. thus, if he is not a hard worker and it affects his play, the cost is substantial. Now, of course, I have no idea if this report is true and I think burns is great, but this needs to work for us whether the acquisition cost was cheap or market value.
Yes, I thought my discount comment was obvious. Top end players don’t hit FA, you almost always have to trade and the trade was a discount. He must perform but so would Hunter and Wilkins, so that’s not really relevant.
Maybe in saying that, he is communicating that he has way more in him now that he has a team that....ahem....per McKinney....appreciates him. LOL
But Burns didn't dog it. He played strong, even in a season that was done early. He started every game, and finished with two good games against the Jags and Bucs. He's certainly worth the capital given up for him and he is a game changer in how he can disrupt offenses.
And JPP of course.
But Burns didn't dog it. He played strong, even in a season that was done early. He started every game, and finished with two good games against the Jags and Bucs. He's certainly worth the capital given up for him and he is a game changer in how he can disrupt offenses.
I am so disappointed in Ojulari, but perhaps as a spot pass rusher he shows something. Their DL still needs work. But, this move, I think (hope?) goes a long way.
I would really look forward to this.
Please don’t forget
Thank you in advance !
You'd rather have a 2nd round pick instead of Burns where the odds you draft a player as good as Burns is ridiculously low. Yes, Burns is getting paid, but there is a better chance the Giants 2nd round pick is a total bust than even half as good as Burns.
you did not think this out.
Sure, but the factor you fail to add to the equation is what free agents could have been signed for that money. Say you can get two very good starters to fill gaping holes AND have the lottery pick that is the high second rounder. So instead of making one position a whole lot better, you have the chance to make three much better.
Using your analogy, you think the only way to solve your hunger is with a Wagyu beef filet mignon while giving up dessert.
Similar to Thibs headed into yr 2 in the sense that I'm ok with what's happened up to now but the production has now gotta follow.
Similar to Thibs headed into yr 2 in the sense that I'm ok with what's happened up to now but the production has now gotta follow.
Yup. Every move has a potential downside and some people get defensive if you mention it. We won't know if this was a good move until we see what he does this year and next. There are no excuses.
Few things:
1.) Stats always indicate more than just one individual’s performance, it’s why they’re so easily manipulated to fit narratives. Watch the dude play. He’s a game breaker. He was lining up opposite a washed, 34 year old, shell of himself Justin Houston for half of last season, and if that’s who started, I bet you can imagine how his replacement faired.
It’s similar to what bugs me about the way people talk about Saquon. Saquon didn’t hit the 1k mark and people act like he was a scrub, but it’s because he was the only player worth game planning against. There was 2 games in ‘22 where we trotted out 7 OL. SEVEN. And it wasn’t jumbo, goal line packages. It was because teams knew Jones wasn’t gonna throw past 20 yds, and the only threat was Saquon, so they were lining up 9 in the box. Do we forget that when Plax shot himself, a 10-0 team suddenly couldn’t run the ball, or win a game? Because the defense stopped having to worry about a true threat on the outside who could kill them. He also had 35 receptions with 450 yds over those 10 games. So again, stats don’t mean shit.
Talent does not exist in a bubble; if there’s only one guy who consistently wins his one on one battle, can you guess who’s never going to have a one on one battle? It’s why Osi, Strahan, and Tuck were so efficient together. 5 OL vs 4 DL, and 3 can beat their man 1:1, you can’t game plan for it, you just hope for an off day from 2. Watching Dex, Burns, and KT is going to be the first time in a very, very long time where we have an entire unit of players who are impossible to game plan for. Be happy!
2.) Re: Admitted to taking plays off. Here’s a reality that most fans don’t process - this is the most violent sport in America. Life-alteringly violent. You’re also paying 21-22 year olds millions of dollars who, most times, aren’t xominr from a place of wealth, so asset and financial management are top of mind. If you’re lucky enough to have your body last til past the rookie deal, you’ve likely wasted that rookie contract on, in best case, bad investments, and more realistically, bullshit, cause you never had money and you’re immature and want cool shit, that second contract is crucial.
Put your “21 year old version of yourself” hat on, and give that person 15 million. Bet you’re not researching stocks or investment portfolios, or financial professionals. And if you’ve ever met a financial professional that handles that kind of money, they’re overt scumbags by and large. So you meet them, don’t trust them, so you turn to your uncle, or a friend, and you get some advise. Or you buy your parents a house, yourself a house, and end up pissing that money away. I don’t know, maybe you were raised around money and success and at 21 you were a fully responsible, knowledgeable adult with financial savvy. I wasn’t. Shit, I grew up poor, I’m 36 now and just started making good money last year, and I’m already in more debt than I’ve been in my entire life. So yea, a second shot at a good contract is huge.
Now, let’s say you get to the negotiation table, and your owner starts playing hardball. And it’s the same owner who just traded the first overall pick this year for a QB that he railroaded his coach for, over a stud who’s playing for playoff team. An owner that recently went viral for throwing a drink on fans who bought tickets to his stadium, forget who they were cheering for. An owner who is widely considered the worst owner in the league, possibly all of sports. You think that negotiation is going cordially? You’re speaking with someone who sees your worth? Or maybe, you may make a couple business decisions along the way to preserve your body, ‘cause if they can’t pay you and they can’t win, what the fuck is the point?
The faux morality behind loyalty to team is such a crock of shit. Say what you will about DJ the football player, but the fact that fans on here complain about his injury clause when he’s had FUCKING NECK SURGERY and Schoen agreed to give him an out in case, I don’t know, maybe some day the guy would like to play with his kids and not need a wheelchair, is so fucking disgusting to me. If he had another life-altering level injury, people would piss and moan about the contract - money and cap implications they can’t even comprehend. Meanwhile, ol’ Danny boy is figuring out if that 40 mil will cover whatever baby DNA or whatever that might be able to grow him a new spine. “But they can’t sign the wide receiver I like now.” Get a grip, there’s more going on here.
3.) People wildly overvalue draft picks here. Known quantity > potential, every time. Especially when the guy is a stud. Here’s a fun exercise: go look at the Giants second round picks. You have to go back 21 YEARS to find a 2nd round pick that is of the same caliber as Burns. Ironically, it’s another pass rusher. Osi. In 2003. (You could also include Snee ‘04, but for the sake of positional congruency, I pushed it a year). The way this team has drafted, honestly, I’d be down to trade every fucking pick for known quantities at this point. That’s tongue in cheek, but seriously, this shit is getting out of hand. I don’t hate what he’s done so far, though the jury is very much still out on Schoen when it comes to talent acquisition, especially in the draft, but the way people talk about picks it’s like we’re trading away the firstborn of each fan. They’re just not as valuable as people make them out to be.
4.) The Eluemunor pick up, and him vs. Neal conversation is getting old quick. I get it, the kid is likeable as fuck. He’s one of the first signings in a while that’s actually excited to be Giant, for real. But he’s a back up. He’s a C- guard and a C+/B- tackle. Neal played LT in college. I don’t think people understand what it means to flip sides like that, but it’s very difficult to train yourself to do everything backwards, then improve. Especially with the dogshit coaching he’s had here. And he’s been playing next to a liability, who was playing next to a liability, who was playing next to a liability, for his entire career. And then, all those liabilities got injured! So it was a revolving door of suck playing next to him, while he’s trying to get muscle memory to make a first step with a new foot in a new direction, and punch with a new hand first, and push out to a new side first. It’s also why he’s actually been successful in run blocking and pulls, cause it’s natural.
But yea, he sucks. *Eye roll*. How about we give him a chance to fucking succeed here before we completely write him off? Maybe the fact that he was a unanimous top 10 pick coming out with the tools to succeed, but was never supported properly, and has been battling and playing through injury for 2 years matters? Y’all woulda cut bait on AT too, and now he’s a legitimate top tackle in the league. AT is a beast, Runyon is a +, JMS was looking like a stud before injury. Let’s get a good player to play next to him, a solid unit in place to know how each other plays and get familiar, and see if that makes a difference. If not, we’ll let the British kid play, but if he’s at RT, that’s not good for the NYG.
——
To Hilary - sorry, this post isn’t personal, or even really directed at you. Just the way some of the talk here has become is just so brutal, and some of the original post touched on shit that’s been bugging me about the way people speak these days. I used the post as a springboard, I don’t want you to think I’m coming at you, ‘cause if this was a direct response to you, it’d be entirely too contentious and aggressive. Just using some of the post as material for venting. Again, my bad, I have a sick toddler who apparently fucking hates daylight savings, and I missed therapy this week so, here we are.
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to draft picks like they're starving and the draft pick is the only way to eat.
You'd rather have a 2nd round pick instead of Burns where the odds you draft a player as good as Burns is ridiculously low. Yes, Burns is getting paid, but there is a better chance the Giants 2nd round pick is a total bust than even half as good as Burns.
you did not think this out.
Sure, but the factor you fail to add to the equation is what free agents could have been signed for that money. Say you can get two very good starters to fill gaping holes AND have the lottery pick that is the high second rounder. So instead of making one position a whole lot better, you have the chance to make three much better.
Using your analogy, you think the only way to solve your hunger is with a Wagyu beef filet mignon while giving up dessert.
lot of approaches could work, what you describe used to be the Patriots approach - they'd rather have 3 ponies than one horse (hence all the trade downs and "value shopping". it worked for them because their system was so sound, their scouting was good, and their coaching the best. At the end of the day it comes down to risk. Burns has a lot less risk than a draft pick and even less risk then multiple lesser options.
Exactly.
opportunity cost - what else you could have done
with the money. Burns got one of the highest contracts
given to a defensive player. They could have gotten very
good player or players with that money and kept the
pick.
Your understanding of a common term everyone else also understands doesn't help the argument that the opportunity cost of a second round pick is minimal compared to paying a player who produces.
Move off dictionary.com and think for yourself.
There are synergies between players and positions that improve the team beyond simply the player you added.
There are synergies between players and positions that improve the team beyond simply the player you added.
There are synergies between players and positions that improve the team beyond simply the player you added.
Going back to the days where Michael Strahan was starting to establish himself playing opposite Chad Bratzke. Someone said that if you didn’t have 2 good pass rushers, you won’t have one great one. Bratzke’s presence really helped Strahan. Burns should help Thibs to develop. And a healthy Ojulari can’t hurt.
Why is 10 a magic number?
(Think about it…..)
You'd rather have a 2nd round pick instead of Burns where the odds you draft a player as good as Burns is ridiculously low. Yes, Burns is getting paid, but there is a better chance the Giants 2nd round pick is a total bust than even half as good as Burns.
you did not think this out.
Pretty much agree with this - although the big factor is injury and money.
If Burns gets hurt - we get burned. He's huge investment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCew0KVfnL0&list=PLHC06TmPedDYut_Ws-htkl5gDgnwhplg8
(The interview starts at the 21:07 point)
That's what the Carolina guy said. I like that a lot. The question, then can Kayvon Thibodeaux play opposite him at the other DE ?
I Don't know what Shane Bowen's base scheme is, if he feels he has the "horses" to go to a 4-3 (like the 49ers have with Nick Bosa & Chase Young at DE and Arik Armstead and Javon Hargrave at DT). They're good both at stopping the run and getting after the QB all day with just 4 guys. That is a BIG deal, not exposing your defense by resorting to blitz to get things done.
It hurt a lot to see some folks hating on Saquon (couldn't wait to see him gone).
(There's a ton of players making a heck of a lot more money that are not worthy of shining his shoes).
As good as they were I think Burns is better.
It hurt a lot to see some folks hating on Saquon (couldn't wait to see him gone).
(There's a ton of players making a heck of a lot more money that are not worthy of shining his shoes).
I have almost exclusively fond memories of the way he played football, and moreover, represented the team. It’s a little jilted lover syndrome, and a little bit people not being able to separate the player from the Dave Gettleman pick, but I gotta wonder if people can really go through life without taking their own inventory. What it must become, haha.