Posted yesterday he was, but nothing else has been listed.
I kind of expect him to anyways. Failed experiment but it wasn't super pricey. Let Bellinger get his original job back and have Manhertz and Stoll fight for the #2 job.
Yeah, Makes sense with all of the recent TE signings
ironically the only thing on twitter when i searched was this wes steinberg post from yesterday, would be funny if the giant beats got scooped by a pretend beat.
Wesley Steinberg
@WesSteinberg
#Giants TE Darren Waller is retiring.
Waller overcame a lot in his career and life, including addiction struggles. However, one season of playing with Daniel Jones was too much.
RE: RE: seen nothing on Twitterverse or Giants yet
It was a buy low with the pick acquired for Toney. I do think it's better he's off the team. My only criticism was the restructure after acquiring him.
away a 3rd round pick should not be minimized. It was a terrible trade if he is in fact retiring.
I less mind the 3rd round pick and more care that he was the highest paid TE last year. That is a ton of resources tied up in basically 0 production. Take that money and put it toward the O line or an actual, real receiver and we might have had a more productive year on offense.
I will say, though, that when Waller was wide open in the 4th quarter when we were attempting yet another doomed desperate comeback (I believe against SF), and Jones stepped up and just completely overthrew him, that's when I finally decided 100% that Jones is/was not salvageable. I thank Waller for getting open and giving me that clarity.
away a 3rd round pick should not be minimized. It was a terrible trade if he is in fact retiring.
I'm fine with the risk. They are trying to get better, you need to take risks, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
Don't forget they got a third for Toney (trying to clean up more moves from previous regime), so it kind of cancels.
I'd rather them be proactive, take some risks then sit on their hands and do nothing. No guarantee that the third round pick would have panned out anyway.
was in favor of the trade despite his age and injury history. And I typically don't like trading picks for players. The cost was low, we had an extra third, and we needed receiving options. But it was obviously a bad idea. In retrospect, it looks like a desperate move to add weapons. I'm concerned that Schoen will do the same in his pursuit of a new QB to replace Jones.
that 3rd to draft another Matt Peart or Oshane Ximines or Davis Webb.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
RE: I think this all came from a Wes Steinberg post.
that 3rd to draft another Matt Peart or Oshane Ximines or Davis Webb.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
that 3rd to draft another Matt Peart or Oshane Ximines or Davis Webb.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
Again, it is more than that. Trading for a vet means more cap space used too. Missing on stuff like this hurts twice. And in an isolated situation, I agree. However, when we look at the majority of moves that Schoen has made, he has missed way more than he has hit. This is why we are where we are. Schoen has no problem blaming Gettleman for the situation he took over. But Gettleman left him two top 7 picks that haven't really hit. The teams sucks today because of the moves Schoen has made. This is a HUGE offseason for him.
it was “known” by most folks (other than Joe Schoen, apparently), that Waller had lost his burst and couldn’t stay healthy. the trade was doomed from the start. yeah we had “high hopes,” but they were never realistic. we overpaid for Waller twice, once in draft picks and again in salary.
a desperate team has to make desperate moves, I guess, but it sucks when the fans can see the mistake before the GM does.
that 3rd to draft another Matt Peart or Oshane Ximines or Davis Webb.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
This is the correct take. Trading for known quantities seems to be a better ROI than the draft capital given up.
It's the same across all sports. I'll never forget the outrage on the Jesus Montero/Pineda trade. Turned out to be a bust on all sides, but there is something about giving up somebody's potential upside that bothers people. I'll take the known quantity over 'upside'.
And at the end of the it, Waller was still the second leading receiver for the Giants last year.
interviewing people on SNL: “Hey, remember that time Waller caught the TD in that preseason game and people thought they might have a good offense? That was awesome!”
interviewing people on SNL: “Hey, remember that time Waller caught the TD in that preseason game and people thought they might have a good offense? That was awesome!”
lol, I was mixing up the preseason game with the Tyrod TD to him in October. He did look good on that preseason drive though. Then the mysterious hamstring problem came back with that Q tag right before week 1.
that 3rd to draft another Matt Peart or Oshane Ximines or Davis Webb.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
Again, it is more than that. Trading for a vet means more cap space used too. Missing on stuff like this hurts twice. And in an isolated situation, I agree. However, when we look at the majority of moves that Schoen has made, he has missed way more than he has hit. This is why we are where we are. Schoen has no problem blaming Gettleman for the situation he took over. But Gettleman left him two top 7 picks that haven't really hit. The teams sucks today because of the moves Schoen has made. This is a HUGE offseason for him.
It's like the Burns trade all over again.
Waller was 30 years old when the Giants acquired him, definitely not past his prime and was by all accounts an elite TE.
Yes, there is a cap implication of that player on your roster.
IMO it's worth a 3rd round pick and the cap hit to bring in that talent.
I wouldn't have made the trade simply because of where I felt the Giants were as a team and I viewed Waller as a luxury the Giants were not quite ready for, but I get the POV from a coach and GM who believe in their scheme, talent and roster plan.
The mistake was the restructure.
Quote:
....Prior to the restructure, the Giants could have gotten out of the deal with no dead money if they decided to move on from him at any point, but this restructure now deposits dead money into their cap if they terminate the deal early....
Same people make the same argument about Burns. Burns is 26 and just entering his prime. it's absolutely worth a 2nd to acquire him and then pay him to keep him.
Will it work out? who knows, but those are gambles I take.
Here are the Giants past 15 years of 3rd round picks. Which ones would you say make the Waller trade and cap hit (as it was when they acquired him) not worth it:
2023: Hyatt
2022: Ezeudu
2022: Flott
2021: Robinson
2020: Peart
2019: Ximines
2018: Carter
2018: Hill
2017: Webb
2016: Darian Thompson (need to use 1st name too people probably forgot who this even was)
2015: Owa Odi
2014: Bromley
2013: Da"montster" Moore
2012: Hosley
2011: Jernigan
2010: Chad Jones
2009: Barden
2009: Beckum
2008: Manningham
you have to go back 15 years to possibly Manningham before you get to a player that makes you even think twice about this trade. 15 years and 19 draft picks (allowing for Hyatt, Flott, and Ezeudu are incompletes at this time)
interviewing people on SNL: “Hey, remember that time Waller caught the TD in that preseason game and people thought they might have a good offense? That was awesome!”
Watching that preseason game, we tore through Carolina’s defense like a hot knife through butter and I was positive we were gonna be an offensive juggernaut. Didn’t quite turn out that way.
100% Agreed
+1 … nothing else left to say.
Schoen can use some of that cap space on D depth perhaps.
Yup.
Damn, I want that 3rd round pick back.
I kind of expect him to anyways. Failed experiment but it wasn't super pricey. Let Bellinger get his original job back and have Manhertz and Stoll fight for the #2 job.
ironically the only thing on twitter when i searched was this wes steinberg post from yesterday, would be funny if the giant beats got scooped by a pretend beat.
Wesley Steinberg
@WesSteinberg
#Giants TE Darren Waller is retiring.
Waller overcame a lot in his career and life, including addiction struggles. However, one season of playing with Daniel Jones was too much.
Quote:
so it remains to be seen.. but with the recent TE signings yesterday.. I could see it.
Yup.
Damn, I want that 3rd round pick back.
Good thing we still have the Saints' pick from the Shockey trade.
They are asleep at the wheel;) Per Usual. LOL
Quote:
In comment 16434925 blueblood said:
Quote:
so it remains to be seen.. but with the recent TE signings yesterday.. I could see it.
Yup.
Damn, I want that 3rd round pick back.
Good thing we still have the Saints' pick from the Shockey trade.
I love seeing references like this. Old school bbi ers unite lol
I still remember “Hall signs” and the origins of the German threads
Quote:
In comment 16434933 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16434925 blueblood said:
Quote:
so it remains to be seen.. but with the recent TE signings yesterday.. I could see it.
Yup.
Damn, I want that 3rd round pick back.
Good thing we still have the Saints' pick from the Shockey trade.
I love seeing references like this. Old school bbi ers unite lol
I still remember “Hall signs” and the origins of the German threads
we got burns for a 2nd and a 5th... isnt that basically a 3rd?
thats major trade capital.
Quote:
away a 3rd round pick should not be minimized. It was a terrible trade if he is in fact retiring.
we got burns for a 2nd and a 5th... isnt that basically a 3rd?
thats major trade capital.
Wut? 😵💫
I less mind the 3rd round pick and more care that he was the highest paid TE last year. That is a ton of resources tied up in basically 0 production. Take that money and put it toward the O line or an actual, real receiver and we might have had a more productive year on offense.
I will say, though, that when Waller was wide open in the 4th quarter when we were attempting yet another doomed desperate comeback (I believe against SF), and Jones stepped up and just completely overthrew him, that's when I finally decided 100% that Jones is/was not salvageable. I thank Waller for getting open and giving me that clarity.
Quote:
In comment 16434973 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
away a 3rd round pick should not be minimized. It was a terrible trade if he is in fact retiring.
we got burns for a 2nd and a 5th... isnt that basically a 3rd?
thats major trade capital.
Wut? 😵💫
im saying we traded 2nd and a 5th for burns.
we gave away a 3rd round pick for an over 30 year old TE who played 12 games for us and is now retiring.
we gave up significant capital, capital thats somewhat equivalent to a player we just got in brian burns.
I'm fine with the risk. They are trying to get better, you need to take risks, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
Don't forget they got a third for Toney (trying to clean up more moves from previous regime), so it kind of cancels.
I'd rather them be proactive, take some risks then sit on their hands and do nothing. No guarantee that the third round pick would have panned out anyway.
The trade didn’t work out but almost all of us here were on board with it when it happens. They took a chance and it failed. It happens
Quote:
away a 3rd round pick should not be minimized. It was a terrible trade if he is in fact retiring.
The trade didn’t work out but almost all of us here were on board with it when it happens. They took a chance and it failed. It happens
The problem is most of Schoen's moves have failed.
middle round of draft it is.
yeah id take that trade. waller retire for a CB starter.
They need to consult the Olympic Beach Volleyball sideline reporter before they can break any Giants news.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
The legend of Wes Steinberg lives on
I try to remain positive, but yeah...the unexpected across-the-board regression last season is troubling.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
Agreed.
They could have just fell for Wes’s post.
"Even a good general manager can make a bad trade"
is born.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
Again, it is more than that. Trading for a vet means more cap space used too. Missing on stuff like this hurts twice. And in an isolated situation, I agree. However, when we look at the majority of moves that Schoen has made, he has missed way more than he has hit. This is why we are where we are. Schoen has no problem blaming Gettleman for the situation he took over. But Gettleman left him two top 7 picks that haven't really hit. The teams sucks today because of the moves Schoen has made. This is a HUGE offseason for him.
a desperate team has to make desperate moves, I guess, but it sucks when the fans can see the mistake before the GM does.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
This is the correct take. Trading for known quantities seems to be a better ROI than the draft capital given up.
It's the same across all sports. I'll never forget the outrage on the Jesus Montero/Pineda trade. Turned out to be a bust on all sides, but there is something about giving up somebody's potential upside that bothers people. I'll take the known quantity over 'upside'.
And at the end of the it, Waller was still the second leading receiver for the Giants last year.
lol, I was mixing up the preseason game with the Tyrod TD to him in October. He did look good on that preseason drive though. Then the mysterious hamstring problem came back with that Q tag right before week 1.
Quote:
that 3rd to draft another Matt Peart or Oshane Ximines or Davis Webb.
the Giants are at best 30/70 hit rate in the 3rd round (and the entire NFL is not much better), I'd gamble on a known quantity like Waller 10 times out of 10 given the chance for a 3rd round. Maybe trading Toney for Waller straight up would have made some of the draft pick huggers happier, but it was basically what they did.
it didn't work out, you move on.
fans need to stop being such draft pick huggers.
Again, it is more than that. Trading for a vet means more cap space used too. Missing on stuff like this hurts twice. And in an isolated situation, I agree. However, when we look at the majority of moves that Schoen has made, he has missed way more than he has hit. This is why we are where we are. Schoen has no problem blaming Gettleman for the situation he took over. But Gettleman left him two top 7 picks that haven't really hit. The teams sucks today because of the moves Schoen has made. This is a HUGE offseason for him.
It's like the Burns trade all over again.
Waller was 30 years old when the Giants acquired him, definitely not past his prime and was by all accounts an elite TE.
Yes, there is a cap implication of that player on your roster.
IMO it's worth a 3rd round pick and the cap hit to bring in that talent.
I wouldn't have made the trade simply because of where I felt the Giants were as a team and I viewed Waller as a luxury the Giants were not quite ready for, but I get the POV from a coach and GM who believe in their scheme, talent and roster plan.
The mistake was the restructure.
Same people make the same argument about Burns. Burns is 26 and just entering his prime. it's absolutely worth a 2nd to acquire him and then pay him to keep him.
Will it work out? who knows, but those are gambles I take.
Here are the Giants past 15 years of 3rd round picks. Which ones would you say make the Waller trade and cap hit (as it was when they acquired him) not worth it:
2023: Hyatt
2022: Ezeudu
2022: Flott
2021: Robinson
2020: Peart
2019: Ximines
2018: Carter
2018: Hill
2017: Webb
2016: Darian Thompson (need to use 1st name too people probably forgot who this even was)
2015: Owa Odi
2014: Bromley
2013: Da"montster" Moore
2012: Hosley
2011: Jernigan
2010: Chad Jones
2009: Barden
2009: Beckum
2008: Manningham
you have to go back 15 years to possibly Manningham before you get to a player that makes you even think twice about this trade. 15 years and 19 draft picks (allowing for Hyatt, Flott, and Ezeudu are incompletes at this time)
Watching that preseason game, we tore through Carolina’s defense like a hot knife through butter and I was positive we were gonna be an offensive juggernaut. Didn’t quite turn out that way.