If you were Schoen, do you think McCarthy is worth trading to 4 or 5 for?
His throwing motion is long, kind of reminds me of Phil Simms coming out. That improved, JJ's can be improved also I would think.
McCarthy's release is a bit long - but he also throws such a tight ball. Very important in northeast . bad weather. That was vital to Simms' success.
I don't love the idea of a trade up - because of cost and the fact they NEED to hit on all these round 1-2-3 picks. Giving them away makes the long term roster build less likely to be successful.
Plus - I ain't gonna cry if they don't get one of the WRs. Special trio.
giving up draft capital either. Sy, I guess what I’m asking is would you have enough conviction to try to move to 5. (Personally, I’m not qualified to even make a guess- that’s why I’m asking)
I don't love the idea of a trade up - because of cost and the fact they NEED to hit on all these round 1-2-3 picks. Giving them away makes the long term roster build less likely to be successful.
Plus - I ain't gonna cry if they don't get one of the WRs. Special trio.
I wouldn't like the idea of trading up to 3 myself. It would cost pick 6, pick 47, 2025 1st and 2nd or 3rd I think. Sure, if they hit a homerun that's great but it's too rich for my blood.
A slight trade up with the Chargers for a future 3rd I would do. I think the Cardinals want just about the same trade package as the Patriots from the Vikings so I get the feeling the Vikings are going up to 3 for Maye imo (might be McCarthy who knows). Either way I think we will end up with Maye or JJM at 5 or 6.
Take a look at the receivers Maye has played with past 2 years. Also has a RB that could be RB1 next year.
Michigan OL was AWFUL pass blocking in 2023
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
If you were Schoen, do you think McCarthy is worth trading to 4 or 5 for?
His throwing motion is long, kind of reminds me of Phil Simms coming out. That improved, JJ's can be improved also I would think.
McCarthy's release is a bit long - but he also throws such a tight ball. Very important in northeast . bad weather. That was vital to Simms' success.
I still am interested in an answer to Dave’s question. Is a long windup a correctable attribute in the modern NFL where you generally have to play immediately? An NFL QB cannot survive with a longer release and the Giants need to be honest about if it’s correctable in the modern league.
Played behind a wall at Michigan with the best run game. He was a game manager at best and failed at that often. Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals. Was bailed out by a great defense. Harbaugh hid him the entire time he was there. The kid also doesn’t have arm talent. He has a strong arm but his hall placement isn’t great and he drives the ball as hard as he can into tight windows. He trust his arm strength too much. Also, does his in game therapist come to New York as well and give him mid game pep talks?
Maye was asked to carry a talentless UNC team and did it. He’s not as mobile as JJ but he’s built like a brick house. He is mobile enough and tough. His accuracy at times is off but that’s lower body mechanics which can be improved. I’d take Maye over JJ for sure and for me it’s not even a debate.
Order of qbs for me. Caleb, Maye, JJ, Daniels, Rattler, Nix, Penix, Milton , Pratt
He had 4 INTs all year - 3 in one game. So where did all these stupid INts come from? And Michigans pass blocking wasn’t that good last year either…
But other than that - spot on observation!!! Lol
Lmao if you don’t think he was a game manager then you didn’t watch a single Michigan game. The die hard fans called him a game manager. Look at his pass attempts per game. Oh and yes Michigan offensive line was tops in the country and the run game was number 1 but carry on
Michigan blocked for the run very well. But their right tackle was a sieve in pass pro all year and he had middling targets to throw to. This is not a case where a QB had superior talent across the board.
And it is insane to say he doesn't have arm talent. He has a big arm. He makes a couple of big time off platform throws every game.
In comment 16437126 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Played behind a wall at Michigan with the best run game. He was a game manager at best and failed at that often. Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals. Was bailed out by a great defense. Harbaugh hid him the entire time he was there. The kid also doesn’t have arm talent. He has a strong arm but his hall placement isn’t great and he drives the ball as hard as he can into tight windows. He trust his arm strength too much. Also, does his in game therapist come to New York as well and give him mid game pep talks?
Maye was asked to carry a talentless UNC team and did it. He’s not as mobile as JJ but he’s built like a brick house. He is mobile enough and tough. His accuracy at times is off but that’s lower body mechanics which can be improved. I’d take Maye over JJ for sure and for me it’s not even a debate.
Order of qbs for me. Caleb, Maye, JJ, Daniels, Rattler, Nix, Penix, Milton , Pratt
Take a look at the receivers Maye has played with past 2 years. Also has a RB that could be RB1 next year.
Michigan OL was AWFUL pass blocking in 2023
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Michigan had the best rushing attack and the best defense. I’m sorry but if we’re just saying who had less talent around them it’s UNC and Maye. It’s not debatable. Having the best run game and being in a pro style offense based off play action is a tremendous advantage not to mention the best defense. We’ll see 4 years from now who’s correct but give me Maye over JJ 100 out of 100 times. UNC team isn’t nearly as talented as Michigan. Please spare me. Next your tell me Caleb played with a stacked team as well.
Take a look at the receivers Maye has played with past 2 years. Also has a RB that could be RB1 next year.
Michigan OL was AWFUL pass blocking in 2023
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Michigan had the best rushing attack and the best defense. I’m sorry but if we’re just saying who had less talent around them it’s UNC and Maye. It’s not debatable. Having the best run game and being in a pro style offense based off play action is a tremendous advantage not to mention the best defense. We’ll see 4 years from now who’s correct but give me Maye over JJ 100 out of 100 times. UNC team isn’t nearly as talented as Michigan. Please spare me. Next your tell me Caleb played with a stacked team as well.
UNC had more rushing yards by their RBs than UNC in 2023. UNC has one of the best RBs in the country in Omarion Hampton. UNC having a subpar defense actually helped Maye's stats greatly by forcing them to pass more whereas JJM barely passed in the 2nd half of most games.
giving up draft capital either. Sy, I guess what I’m asking is would you have enough conviction to try to move to 5. (Personally, I’m not qualified to even make a guess- that’s why I’m asking)
Take a look at the receivers Maye has played with past 2 years. Also has a RB that could be RB1 next year.
Michigan OL was AWFUL pass blocking in 2023
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Do not put words in my mouth
I am stating that anyone using the "McCarthy had better players around him on offense" did not watch enough nor are they paying attention year to year
Played behind a wall at Michigan with the best run game. He was a game manager at best and failed at that often. Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals. Was bailed out by a great defense. Harbaugh hid him the entire time he was there. The kid also doesn’t have arm talent. He has a strong arm but his hall placement isn’t great and he drives the ball as hard as he can into tight windows. He trust his arm strength too much. Also, does his in game therapist come to New York as well and give him mid game pep talks?
Maye was asked to carry a talentless UNC team and did it. He’s not as mobile as JJ but he’s built like a brick house. He is mobile enough and tough. His accuracy at times is off but that’s lower body mechanics which can be improved. I’d take Maye over JJ for sure and for me it’s not even a debate.
Order of qbs for me. Caleb, Maye, JJ, Daniels, Rattler, Nix, Penix, Milton , Pratt
He had 4 INTs all year - 3 in one game. So where did all these stupid INts come from? And Michigans pass blocking wasn’t that good last year either…
But other than that - spot on observation!!! Lol
Lmao if you don’t think he was a game manager then you didn’t watch a single Michigan game. The die hard fans called him a game manager. Look at his pass attempts per game. Oh and yes Michigan offensive line was tops in the country and the run game was number 1 but carry on
LMAO - Sy just buried your post and made it look as foolish as you do on every thread. You have no clue what you’re talking about. But you rarely ever do.
When the whole board including Sy liked him. I said he stiff as shit and Taylor mays light. Who turned out to be correct. Sy watches film like anyone can if they want to. Sometimes your right sometimes your wrong. We’ll find out just like we did with Simmons
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Do not put words in my mouth
I am stating that anyone using the "McCarthy had better players around him on offense" did not watch enough nor are they paying attention year to year
Let's pivot to 2022 and your thoughts.
In 2022, Michigan was ranked 22 in pass blocking efficiency. Carolina? 76th. Yet, Maye's season blew McCarthy's season away. How much credibility to you give that?
Played behind a wall at Michigan with the best run game. He was a game manager at best and failed at that often. Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals. Was bailed out by a great defense. Harbaugh hid him the entire time he was there. The kid also doesn’t have arm talent. He has a strong arm but his hall placement isn’t great and he drives the ball as hard as he can into tight windows. He trust his arm strength too much. Also, does his in game therapist come to New York as well and give him mid game pep talks?
This is way off, not even close to being true.
I think people are acting like Sy has JJM ranked way above Maye
When he makes it clear he will have them ranked extremely closely perhaps even equally and it will be up to individual team's preferences. JJM is better under pressure and better with pre and postsnap processing, Maye is better with making big plays with his strong arm, they both have mechanical issues to work through that is reflected in eratic throws on tape, Maye has prototypical size while McCarthy is more athletic, etc. I don't think it's fair to keep coming at Sy for an argument as to why JJM is better when he makes it clear in the video that he has them rated extremely close maybe even.
You made a garbage post and got called out on by numerous posters.
Own up to it.
So let me get this straight. We pick and choose what is garbage and what is not. Saying JJ had an elite run game and used a lot of play action is stupid and incorrect. Also, saying Maye with a poor defense helped him because he had to throw a lot. Meaning he was down in games and defenses knew he’s passing. Look at his pass attempts per game. Did anyone bother to check that out or we listen to Sy as bible. I get it. He’s a professional and I respect his opinion but to dismiss facts is just being biased. It’s “cool” to hop on board Sys opinion. God forbid we have our own. And the Isiah Simmons stuff is an example of how this thread is going. People shitting on me only to realize years later I was correct and Sy wasn’t. It’s possible right? Again, just like I hyped up rattler and guys say he has no arm. He’s unathletic. All not true. Sy had to say rattler has a plus arm for the heard to follow.
I can be dead wrong but nothing I said in his thread is wrong or absurd thinking. To be in a run heavy offense predicated on PA helps the QB. Plain and simple. At no point was JJ asked to carry this offense. It was manage the games and rely on the D and run the clock out with a great running game.
Actually had better stats in 2022, but we won’t let facts dictate a garbage argument.
Dude you didn’t watch the games. Please just admit you’re staring at stats. Michigan run game was unreal. I don’t care about stats. Did you actually see the games. The answer is clearly no. You’re a parrot, I can also stare at boxscores. Unfortunately football isn’t baseball.
Actually had better stats in 2022, but we won’t let facts dictate a garbage argument.
Dude you didn’t watch the games. Please just admit you’re staring at stats. Michigan run game was unreal. I don’t care about stats. Did you actually see the games. The answer is clearly no. You’re a parrot, I can also stare at boxscores. Unfortunately football isn’t baseball.
For an armchair angle watching from your couch you sure seem to think you got things down, surprised you aren't a scout or something!
UNC I believe had much better passing and receiving weapons then Michigan did.
bw knows this.
I'm not sure that I do. Michigan had Schoonmaker in 2023 and he was drafted in the second round by Dallas. And Ronnie Bell was drafted. Plus, Wilson and Loveland were getting opportunities.
Downs for UNC was excellent and got drafted in the third round.
Which is very important b/c this is a debate about the PASSING game and throwing the ball.
Again, Maye had arguably the best RB in football in 2023 (potentially rb1 in 2025 draft). UNC rbs ran for more yards than Michigan running backs in 2023. UNCs bad defense led to much more passing and bigger stats for Maye. I think they are both very close in rating, but you could argue it both ways and to be zealous on one side or the other is very questionable.
UNC I believe had much better passing and receiving weapons then Michigan did.
bw knows this.
I'm not sure that I do. Michigan had Schoonmaker in 2023 and he was drafted in the second round by Dallas. And Ronnie Bell was drafted. Plus, Wilson and Loveland were getting opportunities.
Downs for UNC was excellent and got drafted in the third round.
We are comparing apples to oranges here with a team based on defense and time of possession vs a team with a good offense both pass and run but a poor defense. It's silly imo. I think they are both very promising prospects, I lean toward JJM due to athleticism, pocket presence and pre and post snap processing which are superior to Maye imo. On the other hand I can totally see the Maye side as he has an outstanding arm and prototypical size and a knack for big plays while still being athletic enough to move around and be a threat to run. I think comparing their stats and college teams is a moot point and rather silly though. Let's discuss traits and analytics, not box scores and their respective college teams.
You guys hyping unc is ridiculous. Talk about narrative
Being down in games doesn’t help a qb. He isn’t padding stats he’s throwing when the D knows it and the defense can pin their ears back and go after the qb. Holy shit. Football 101. This isn’t being down 40 in the 4th playing soft zone. My god. You guys can spin this any way possible. Facts are facts
Michigan number 1 rushing offense using play action opens up the field. My god have you guys seen football before or played the game?
We are comparing apples to oranges here with a team based on defense and time of possession vs a team with a good offense both pass and run but a poor defense. It's silly imo. I think they are both very promising prospects, I lean toward JJM due to athleticism, pocket presence and pre and post snap processing which are superior to Maye imo. On the other hand I can totally see the Maye side as he has an outstanding arm and prototypical size and a knack for big plays while still being athletic enough to move around and be a threat to run. I think comparing their stats and college teams is a moot point and rather silly though. Let's discuss traits and analytics, not box scores and their respective college teams.
I'm underscoring the point that McCarthy had plenty of quality at his disposal at the skill positions the last two years.
But I get the sense that that is being underplayed here. And some are trying to suggest Maye was at LSU, not UNC.
RE: You guys hyping unc is ridiculous. Talk about narrative
Being down in games doesn’t help a qb. He isn’t padding stats he’s throwing when the D knows it and the defense can pin their ears back and go after the qb. Holy shit. Football 101. This isn’t being down 40 in the 4th playing soft zone. My god. You guys can spin this any way possible. Facts are facts
Michigan number 1 rushing offense using play action opens up the field. My god have you guys seen football before or played the game?
Teams don’t throw more when losing in football games?
Actually had better stats in 2022, but we won’t let facts dictate a garbage argument.
Dude you didn’t watch the games. Please just admit you’re staring at stats. Michigan run game was unreal. I don’t care about stats. Did you actually see the games. The answer is clearly no. You’re a parrot, I can also stare at boxscores. Unfortunately football isn’t baseball.
lol I was on every college thread every week. So quit your fucking bullshit.
You made a garbage post and got called out on by numerous posters.
Own up to it.
So let me get this straight. We pick and choose what is garbage and what is not. Saying JJ had an elite run game and used a lot of play action is stupid and incorrect. Also, saying Maye with a poor defense helped him because he had to throw a lot. Meaning he was down in games and defenses knew he’s passing. Look at his pass attempts per game. Did anyone bother to check that out or we listen to Sy as bible. I get it. He’s a professional and I respect his opinion but to dismiss facts is just being biased. It’s “cool” to hop on board Sys opinion. God forbid we have our own. And the Isiah Simmons stuff is an example of how this thread is going. People shitting on me only to realize years later I was correct and Sy wasn’t. It’s possible right? Again, just like I hyped up rattler and guys say he has no arm. He’s unathletic. All not true. Sy had to say rattler has a plus arm for the heard to follow.
I can be dead wrong but nothing I said in his thread is wrong or absurd thinking. To be in a run heavy offense predicated on PA helps the QB. Plain and simple. At no point was JJ asked to carry this offense. It was manage the games and rely on the D and run the clock out with a great running game.
You said plenty that was wrong though.
“Played behind a wall with the best run game”- His pass protection was mediocre, and they certainly didn’t have the best running game. What metric are you using to say that?
“ He was a game manager at best and failed at that often”- How did he fail often when he has 1 loss in his career as a starter?
“Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals.”- Wrong again. No INT’s against Bama.
“The kid also doesn’t have arm talent“- Wrong again. The NFL GM’s beg to differ
But, then again Maye was also #2. Daniels exploded past both of them. I think I still like Maye as my 3rd option, so if McCarthy really has the interest of other teams, I would let them take him and go with Maye at 6. It's really unclear what the Giants think (this is really a good thing. We shouldn't know).
Where I have a problem is how to separate McCarthy from Nix or Penix.
I’ll let you do the research by year. Check it out. You just seem like a prick. I’d love to have this discussion in person and see how you speak. Definitely not this way.
You made a garbage post and got called out on by numerous posters.
Own up to it.
So let me get this straight. We pick and choose what is garbage and what is not. Saying JJ had an elite run game and used a lot of play action is stupid and incorrect. Also, saying Maye with a poor defense helped him because he had to throw a lot. Meaning he was down in games and defenses knew he’s passing. Look at his pass attempts per game. Did anyone bother to check that out or we listen to Sy as bible. I get it. He’s a professional and I respect his opinion but to dismiss facts is just being biased. It’s “cool” to hop on board Sys opinion. God forbid we have our own. And the Isiah Simmons stuff is an example of how this thread is going. People shitting on me only to realize years later I was correct and Sy wasn’t. It’s possible right? Again, just like I hyped up rattler and guys say he has no arm. He’s unathletic. All not true. Sy had to say rattler has a plus arm for the heard to follow.
I can be dead wrong but nothing I said in his thread is wrong or absurd thinking. To be in a run heavy offense predicated on PA helps the QB. Plain and simple. At no point was JJ asked to carry this offense. It was manage the games and rely on the D and run the clock out with a great running game.
You said plenty that was wrong though.
“Played behind a wall with the best run game”- His pass protection was mediocre, and they certainly didn’t have the best running game. What metric are you using to say that?
“ He was a game manager at best and failed at that often”- How did he fail often when he has 1 loss in his career as a starter?
“Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals.”- Wrong again. No INT’s against Bama.
“The kid also doesn’t have arm talent“- Wrong again. The NFL GM’s beg to differ
So was it the finals he threw the stupid int first drive of the game ? Sorry didn’t memorize every game he played in. Holy shit. You guys are ridiculous
I’ll let you do the research by year. Check it out. You just seem like a prick. I’d love to have this discussion in person and see how you speak. Definitely not this way.
lol. Buddy I have been battling cancer for years. You think a schmuck like you is going to intimidate me? Lol
So was it the finals he threw the stupid int first drive of the game ? Sorry didn’t memorize every game he played in. Holy shit. You guys are ridiculous
Here are all of McCarthy throws against Bama. The first throw of the game was picked off but overturned due to lack of possession.
You'll see a mix of some really poor throws/decisions, good throws (the double pass play is nice, especially his catch on the throw back), and a lot of easy completions (esp. the TDS) set-up with good design.
So was it the finals he threw the stupid int first drive of the game ? Sorry didn’t memorize every game he played in. Holy shit. You guys are ridiculous
Here are all of McCarthy throws against Bama. The first throw of the game was picked off but overturned due to lack of possession.
You'll see a mix of some really poor throws/decisions, good throws (the double pass play is nice, especially his catch on the throw back), and a lot of easy completions (esp. the TDS) set-up with good design.
McCarthy vs Bama - ( New Window )
His best throw was on the last possession - it was tipped where the defender made an awesome attempt. Still made it to his target.
The sideline throw where it was overturned to complete to Johnson was a big time throw too.
Apologies to you. End of the day we’re giants fans and that’s our team and we wants what’s best. I get heated over football discussion because if you’re on this board your passionate fan. My bad and gidie thanks for stepping in with a solid one liner. So again, I’m sorry for being arrogant if it comes off that way I don’t mean it.
Apologies to you. End of the day we’re giants fans and that’s our team and we wants what’s best. I get heated over football discussion because if you’re on this board your passionate fan. My bad and gidie thanks for stepping in with a solid one liner. So again, I’m sorry for being arrogant if it comes off that way I don’t mean it.
All good man. I apologize as well. Let’s just hope whoever the giants get - Maye, McCarthy or whoever becomes a franchise guy so we enjoy some winning seasons.
His throwing motion is long, kind of reminds me of Phil Simms coming out. That improved, JJ's can be improved also I would think.
McCarthy's release is a bit long - but he also throws such a tight ball. Very important in northeast . bad weather. That was vital to Simms' success.
Plus - I ain't gonna cry if they don't get one of the WRs. Special trio.
Plus - I ain't gonna cry if they don't get one of the WRs. Special trio.
I wouldn't like the idea of trading up to 3 myself. It would cost pick 6, pick 47, 2025 1st and 2nd or 3rd I think. Sure, if they hit a homerun that's great but it's too rich for my blood.
A slight trade up with the Chargers for a future 3rd I would do. I think the Cardinals want just about the same trade package as the Patriots from the Vikings so I get the feeling the Vikings are going up to 3 for Maye imo (might be McCarthy who knows). Either way I think we will end up with Maye or JJM at 5 or 6.
Take a look at the receivers Maye has played with past 2 years. Also has a RB that could be RB1 next year.
Michigan OL was AWFUL pass blocking in 2023
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Quote:
If you were Schoen, do you think McCarthy is worth trading to 4 or 5 for?
His throwing motion is long, kind of reminds me of Phil Simms coming out. That improved, JJ's can be improved also I would think.
McCarthy's release is a bit long - but he also throws such a tight ball. Very important in northeast . bad weather. That was vital to Simms' success.
I still am interested in an answer to Dave’s question. Is a long windup a correctable attribute in the modern NFL where you generally have to play immediately? An NFL QB cannot survive with a longer release and the Giants need to be honest about if it’s correctable in the modern league.
Quote:
Played behind a wall at Michigan with the best run game. He was a game manager at best and failed at that often. Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals. Was bailed out by a great defense. Harbaugh hid him the entire time he was there. The kid also doesn’t have arm talent. He has a strong arm but his hall placement isn’t great and he drives the ball as hard as he can into tight windows. He trust his arm strength too much. Also, does his in game therapist come to New York as well and give him mid game pep talks?
Maye was asked to carry a talentless UNC team and did it. He’s not as mobile as JJ but he’s built like a brick house. He is mobile enough and tough. His accuracy at times is off but that’s lower body mechanics which can be improved. I’d take Maye over JJ for sure and for me it’s not even a debate.
Order of qbs for me. Caleb, Maye, JJ, Daniels, Rattler, Nix, Penix, Milton , Pratt
He had 4 INTs all year - 3 in one game. So where did all these stupid INts come from? And Michigans pass blocking wasn’t that good last year either…
But other than that - spot on observation!!! Lol
Lmao if you don’t think he was a game manager then you didn’t watch a single Michigan game. The die hard fans called him a game manager. Look at his pass attempts per game. Oh and yes Michigan offensive line was tops in the country and the run game was number 1 but carry on
And it is insane to say he doesn't have arm talent. He has a big arm. He makes a couple of big time off platform throws every game.
In comment 16437126 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Played behind a wall at Michigan with the best run game. He was a game manager at best and failed at that often. Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals. Was bailed out by a great defense. Harbaugh hid him the entire time he was there. The kid also doesn’t have arm talent. He has a strong arm but his hall placement isn’t great and he drives the ball as hard as he can into tight windows. He trust his arm strength too much. Also, does his in game therapist come to New York as well and give him mid game pep talks?
Maye was asked to carry a talentless UNC team and did it. He’s not as mobile as JJ but he’s built like a brick house. He is mobile enough and tough. His accuracy at times is off but that’s lower body mechanics which can be improved. I’d take Maye over JJ for sure and for me it’s not even a debate.
Order of qbs for me. Caleb, Maye, JJ, Daniels, Rattler, Nix, Penix, Milton , Pratt
Arm strength isn’t arm talent.
Quote:
Take a look at the receivers Maye has played with past 2 years. Also has a RB that could be RB1 next year.
Michigan OL was AWFUL pass blocking in 2023
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Michigan had the best rushing attack and the best defense. I’m sorry but if we’re just saying who had less talent around them it’s UNC and Maye. It’s not debatable. Having the best run game and being in a pro style offense based off play action is a tremendous advantage not to mention the best defense. We’ll see 4 years from now who’s correct but give me Maye over JJ 100 out of 100 times. UNC team isn’t nearly as talented as Michigan. Please spare me. Next your tell me Caleb played with a stacked team as well.
Quote:
In comment 16437375 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Take a look at the receivers Maye has played with past 2 years. Also has a RB that could be RB1 next year.
Michigan OL was AWFUL pass blocking in 2023
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Michigan had the best rushing attack and the best defense. I’m sorry but if we’re just saying who had less talent around them it’s UNC and Maye. It’s not debatable. Having the best run game and being in a pro style offense based off play action is a tremendous advantage not to mention the best defense. We’ll see 4 years from now who’s correct but give me Maye over JJ 100 out of 100 times. UNC team isn’t nearly as talented as Michigan. Please spare me. Next your tell me Caleb played with a stacked team as well.
UNC had more rushing yards by their RBs than UNC in 2023. UNC has one of the best RBs in the country in Omarion Hampton. UNC having a subpar defense actually helped Maye's stats greatly by forcing them to pass more whereas JJM barely passed in the 2nd half of most games.
I'll have my answer within the month
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Take a look at the receivers Maye has played with past 2 years. Also has a RB that could be RB1 next year.
Michigan OL was AWFUL pass blocking in 2023
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Do not put words in my mouth
I am stating that anyone using the "McCarthy had better players around him on offense" did not watch enough nor are they paying attention year to year
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In comment 16437126 Tuckrule said:
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Played behind a wall at Michigan with the best run game. He was a game manager at best and failed at that often. Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals. Was bailed out by a great defense. Harbaugh hid him the entire time he was there. The kid also doesn’t have arm talent. He has a strong arm but his hall placement isn’t great and he drives the ball as hard as he can into tight windows. He trust his arm strength too much. Also, does his in game therapist come to New York as well and give him mid game pep talks?
Maye was asked to carry a talentless UNC team and did it. He’s not as mobile as JJ but he’s built like a brick house. He is mobile enough and tough. His accuracy at times is off but that’s lower body mechanics which can be improved. I’d take Maye over JJ for sure and for me it’s not even a debate.
Order of qbs for me. Caleb, Maye, JJ, Daniels, Rattler, Nix, Penix, Milton , Pratt
He had 4 INTs all year - 3 in one game. So where did all these stupid INts come from? And Michigans pass blocking wasn’t that good last year either…
But other than that - spot on observation!!! Lol
Lmao if you don’t think he was a game manager then you didn’t watch a single Michigan game. The die hard fans called him a game manager. Look at his pass attempts per game. Oh and yes Michigan offensive line was tops in the country and the run game was number 1 but carry on
LMAO - Sy just buried your post and made it look as foolish as you do on every thread. You have no clue what you’re talking about. But you rarely ever do.
You made a garbage post and got called out on by numerous posters.
Own up to it.
Michigan doesn't have good players on offense?
Wilson and Corum are likely day two picks. And Loveland is a very good TE.
While Michigan's OL was 50th in pass blocking efficiency, Carolina's was only 39th. In other words, neither QB had the luxury of playing behind Oregon's OL.
Do not put words in my mouth
I am stating that anyone using the "McCarthy had better players around him on offense" did not watch enough nor are they paying attention year to year
Let's pivot to 2022 and your thoughts.
In 2022, Michigan was ranked 22 in pass blocking efficiency. Carolina? 76th. Yet, Maye's season blew McCarthy's season away. How much credibility to you give that?
This is way off, not even close to being true.
You made a garbage post and got called out on by numerous posters.
Own up to it.
So let me get this straight. We pick and choose what is garbage and what is not. Saying JJ had an elite run game and used a lot of play action is stupid and incorrect. Also, saying Maye with a poor defense helped him because he had to throw a lot. Meaning he was down in games and defenses knew he’s passing. Look at his pass attempts per game. Did anyone bother to check that out or we listen to Sy as bible. I get it. He’s a professional and I respect his opinion but to dismiss facts is just being biased. It’s “cool” to hop on board Sys opinion. God forbid we have our own. And the Isiah Simmons stuff is an example of how this thread is going. People shitting on me only to realize years later I was correct and Sy wasn’t. It’s possible right? Again, just like I hyped up rattler and guys say he has no arm. He’s unathletic. All not true. Sy had to say rattler has a plus arm for the heard to follow.
I can be dead wrong but nothing I said in his thread is wrong or absurd thinking. To be in a run heavy offense predicated on PA helps the QB. Plain and simple. At no point was JJ asked to carry this offense. It was manage the games and rely on the D and run the clock out with a great running game.
bw knows this.
He threw so many bad INTs that he only had TWO games with INTs all year
He didn’t throw one against Alabama.
His pass protection was not a wall whatsoever as Sy pointed out.
He was not hidden by Harbaugh - this is a made up narrative with actual no facts supporting it. When they needed to throw - they were high successful.
He has elite arm talent as evidence by the combine.
And even if he was a game manager (which he wasn’t) - when did he fail like you proclaimed? They were undefeated and won the title - haha
Anything else you want me to point out on your garbage post?
Dude you didn’t watch the games. Please just admit you’re staring at stats. Michigan run game was unreal. I don’t care about stats. Did you actually see the games. The answer is clearly no. You’re a parrot, I can also stare at boxscores. Unfortunately football isn’t baseball.
Which is very important b/c this is a debate about the PASSING game and throwing the ball.
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Actually had better stats in 2022, but we won’t let facts dictate a garbage argument.
Dude you didn’t watch the games. Please just admit you’re staring at stats. Michigan run game was unreal. I don’t care about stats. Did you actually see the games. The answer is clearly no. You’re a parrot, I can also stare at boxscores. Unfortunately football isn’t baseball.
For an armchair angle watching from your couch you sure seem to think you got things down, surprised you aren't a scout or something!
bw knows this.
I'm not sure that I do. Michigan had Schoonmaker in 2023 and he was drafted in the second round by Dallas. And Ronnie Bell was drafted. Plus, Wilson and Loveland were getting opportunities.
Downs for UNC was excellent and got drafted in the third round.
Which is very important b/c this is a debate about the PASSING game and throwing the ball.
Again, Maye had arguably the best RB in football in 2023 (potentially rb1 in 2025 draft). UNC rbs ran for more yards than Michigan running backs in 2023. UNCs bad defense led to much more passing and bigger stats for Maye. I think they are both very close in rating, but you could argue it both ways and to be zealous on one side or the other is very questionable.
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UNC I believe had much better passing and receiving weapons then Michigan did.
bw knows this.
I'm not sure that I do. Michigan had Schoonmaker in 2023 and he was drafted in the second round by Dallas. And Ronnie Bell was drafted. Plus, Wilson and Loveland were getting opportunities.
Downs for UNC was excellent and got drafted in the third round.
We are comparing apples to oranges here with a team based on defense and time of possession vs a team with a good offense both pass and run but a poor defense. It's silly imo. I think they are both very promising prospects, I lean toward JJM due to athleticism, pocket presence and pre and post snap processing which are superior to Maye imo. On the other hand I can totally see the Maye side as he has an outstanding arm and prototypical size and a knack for big plays while still being athletic enough to move around and be a threat to run. I think comparing their stats and college teams is a moot point and rather silly though. Let's discuss traits and analytics, not box scores and their respective college teams.
Michigan number 1 rushing offense using play action opens up the field. My god have you guys seen football before or played the game?
We are comparing apples to oranges here with a team based on defense and time of possession vs a team with a good offense both pass and run but a poor defense. It's silly imo. I think they are both very promising prospects, I lean toward JJM due to athleticism, pocket presence and pre and post snap processing which are superior to Maye imo. On the other hand I can totally see the Maye side as he has an outstanding arm and prototypical size and a knack for big plays while still being athletic enough to move around and be a threat to run. I think comparing their stats and college teams is a moot point and rather silly though. Let's discuss traits and analytics, not box scores and their respective college teams.
I'm underscoring the point that McCarthy had plenty of quality at his disposal at the skill positions the last two years.
But I get the sense that that is being underplayed here. And some are trying to suggest Maye was at LSU, not UNC.
Michigan number 1 rushing offense using play action opens up the field. My god have you guys seen football before or played the game?
Teams don’t throw more when losing in football games?
Hmmm - learn something new every day.
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Actually had better stats in 2022, but we won’t let facts dictate a garbage argument.
Dude you didn’t watch the games. Please just admit you’re staring at stats. Michigan run game was unreal. I don’t care about stats. Did you actually see the games. The answer is clearly no. You’re a parrot, I can also stare at boxscores. Unfortunately football isn’t baseball.
lol I was on every college thread every week. So quit your fucking bullshit.
In 2022 - Corum averaged 6 YPC
Edwards averaged 7 YPc
In 2023 - Corum averaged 4.8 and Edwards averaged 4.2
You’re right - those stats are meaningless. Lol.
You’re such a tool that everyone can see but you.
Michigan ranked 52nd in YPC
So please explain how the fuck in the world there the best in the nation?? The two most important categories they were outside the top 50z
Tuckrule really struggles with stats and facts. Hahaha
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About Isaiah Simmons.
You made a garbage post and got called out on by numerous posters.
Own up to it.
So let me get this straight. We pick and choose what is garbage and what is not. Saying JJ had an elite run game and used a lot of play action is stupid and incorrect. Also, saying Maye with a poor defense helped him because he had to throw a lot. Meaning he was down in games and defenses knew he’s passing. Look at his pass attempts per game. Did anyone bother to check that out or we listen to Sy as bible. I get it. He’s a professional and I respect his opinion but to dismiss facts is just being biased. It’s “cool” to hop on board Sys opinion. God forbid we have our own. And the Isiah Simmons stuff is an example of how this thread is going. People shitting on me only to realize years later I was correct and Sy wasn’t. It’s possible right? Again, just like I hyped up rattler and guys say he has no arm. He’s unathletic. All not true. Sy had to say rattler has a plus arm for the heard to follow.
I can be dead wrong but nothing I said in his thread is wrong or absurd thinking. To be in a run heavy offense predicated on PA helps the QB. Plain and simple. At no point was JJ asked to carry this offense. It was manage the games and rely on the D and run the clock out with a great running game.
You said plenty that was wrong though.
“Played behind a wall with the best run game”- His pass protection was mediocre, and they certainly didn’t have the best running game. What metric are you using to say that?
“ He was a game manager at best and failed at that often”- How did he fail often when he has 1 loss in his career as a starter?
“Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals.”- Wrong again. No INT’s against Bama.
“The kid also doesn’t have arm talent“- Wrong again. The NFL GM’s beg to differ
Where I have a problem is how to separate McCarthy from Nix or Penix.
He may be. Still doesn’t mean your posts aren’t full of shit either.
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In comment 16437608 JT039 said:
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About Isaiah Simmons.
You made a garbage post and got called out on by numerous posters.
Own up to it.
So let me get this straight. We pick and choose what is garbage and what is not. Saying JJ had an elite run game and used a lot of play action is stupid and incorrect. Also, saying Maye with a poor defense helped him because he had to throw a lot. Meaning he was down in games and defenses knew he’s passing. Look at his pass attempts per game. Did anyone bother to check that out or we listen to Sy as bible. I get it. He’s a professional and I respect his opinion but to dismiss facts is just being biased. It’s “cool” to hop on board Sys opinion. God forbid we have our own. And the Isiah Simmons stuff is an example of how this thread is going. People shitting on me only to realize years later I was correct and Sy wasn’t. It’s possible right? Again, just like I hyped up rattler and guys say he has no arm. He’s unathletic. All not true. Sy had to say rattler has a plus arm for the heard to follow.
I can be dead wrong but nothing I said in his thread is wrong or absurd thinking. To be in a run heavy offense predicated on PA helps the QB. Plain and simple. At no point was JJ asked to carry this offense. It was manage the games and rely on the D and run the clock out with a great running game.
You said plenty that was wrong though.
“Played behind a wall with the best run game”- His pass protection was mediocre, and they certainly didn’t have the best running game. What metric are you using to say that?
“ He was a game manager at best and failed at that often”- How did he fail often when he has 1 loss in his career as a starter?
“Threw insanely stupid INTs. Did it in the semi finals.”- Wrong again. No INT’s against Bama.
“The kid also doesn’t have arm talent“- Wrong again. The NFL GM’s beg to differ
So was it the finals he threw the stupid int first drive of the game ? Sorry didn’t memorize every game he played in. Holy shit. You guys are ridiculous
More proof you have no clue what you’re talking about… lol
lol. Buddy I have been battling cancer for years. You think a schmuck like you is going to intimidate me? Lol
Apologies.
So was it the finals he threw the stupid int first drive of the game ? Sorry didn’t memorize every game he played in. Holy shit. You guys are ridiculous
Here are all of McCarthy throws against Bama. The first throw of the game was picked off but overturned due to lack of possession.
You'll see a mix of some really poor throws/decisions, good throws (the double pass play is nice, especially his catch on the throw back), and a lot of easy completions (esp. the TDS) set-up with good design.
McCarthy vs Bama - ( New Window )
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So was it the finals he threw the stupid int first drive of the game ? Sorry didn’t memorize every game he played in. Holy shit. You guys are ridiculous
Here are all of McCarthy throws against Bama. The first throw of the game was picked off but overturned due to lack of possession.
You'll see a mix of some really poor throws/decisions, good throws (the double pass play is nice, especially his catch on the throw back), and a lot of easy completions (esp. the TDS) set-up with good design.
McCarthy vs Bama - ( New Window )
His best throw was on the last possession - it was tipped where the defender made an awesome attempt. Still made it to his target.
The sideline throw where it was overturned to complete to Johnson was a big time throw too.
All good man. I apologize as well. Let’s just hope whoever the giants get - Maye, McCarthy or whoever becomes a franchise guy so we enjoy some winning seasons.