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| Daniel Jeremiah "I wouldn't be shocked if Nabers ended up being the 1st WR off the board. I love MHJ and Odunze but Nabers brings a different element. It'll come down to preference of style but I guarantee some teams will have Nabers at the top of the list." Dane Brugler "100% true. Nabers has been viewed as WR1 for several teams since the season. And that says more about Nabers than anything else - he's a special talent." Field Yates "Mr. @MelKiperESPN and I discussed this on today’s First Draft. Ultimately, only one team will decide which WR goes first in the draft. But make no mistake: Nabers vs. MHJ is a real debate for a lot of teams. Him being the first WR off the board should not be dismissed." |
6'4 w/ speed, routes, hands.
6'3 w/ sped, routes, elite contested ability
6'0 w/ elite speed and hands (and some swag).
We're in a good place to get someone good.
Trading up would be a hard pill to swallow, given the talent on the table. But if we are sold on Maye or McCarthy, i get it.
Keep in mind this team already lost its best weapon, and its second best weapon is contemplating retirement. Their leading receiver from last year is a FA after the season. They decided not to pay Hodgins as well.
Keep in mind this team already lost its best weapon, and its second best weapon is contemplating retirement. Their leading receiver from last year is a FA after the season. They decided not to pay Hodgins as well.
True.
But the Giants don't have a QB.
Keep in mind this team already lost its best weapon, and its second best weapon is contemplating retirement. Their leading receiver from last year is a FA after the season. They decided not to pay Hodgins as well.
Just because JJ McCarthy is the 4th QB off the board doesn't mean he's the Giants 4th ranked QB. Also we have no idea if the Giants think he's a "worse" prospect.
I am also curious to see what Sy thinks of Brian Thomas and Adonai Mitchel. Guys that big, who are that fast and produce like they did in college are pretty rare.
If we take a QB in the top 10, and one of those guys falls to 25+, I wonder if we could trade up to get one. Especially Thomas.
I don't think anyone would debate that.
But that's not the issue.
Plus, as someone mentioned, it makes trading back to 6 more desirable than trading to 11.
Gut feeling plus experts film McCarthy is a bust. Something that bothers me about this guy. He will be a waste if we go 1st round with him. Just saying.
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That half of the fan base thinks that Giants will trade up for JJM, who most have rated as QB4, instead of getting one of these 2 guys at 6. So 2 first round picks spent on a worse prospect, or one first round pick spent that will clearly improve the team.
Keep in mind this team already lost its best weapon, and its second best weapon is contemplating retirement. Their leading receiver from last year is a FA after the season. They decided not to pay Hodgins as well.
True.
But the Giants don't have a QB.
True but they can't waste a first round just to take a bust.
All draft picks can bust.
If they have a high first-round grade on a QB that is available, that's more important than any other position.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
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In comment 16437447 Breeze_94 said:
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That half of the fan base thinks that Giants will trade up for JJM, who most have rated as QB4, instead of getting one of these 2 guys at 6. So 2 first round picks spent on a worse prospect, or one first round pick spent that will clearly improve the team.
Keep in mind this team already lost its best weapon, and its second best weapon is contemplating retirement. Their leading receiver from last year is a FA after the season. They decided not to pay Hodgins as well.
True.
But the Giants don't have a QB.
True but they can't waste a first round just to take a bust.
Like Sammy Watkins or Peter Warrick?
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
It makes no sense to me. Sure you could draft a bust at QB. Just as likely to draft a bust at WR, OT or Edge Rusher.
Robert Gallery, Solomon Thomas, Jerry Jeudy, Charles Rogers, Justin Blackmon, Trent Richardson, Jason Smith, Vernon Gholston, Kevin White, Derrick Harvey, Justin Gilbert, Dee Milliner are a couple names off the top of my head that were top 5 or top 10 picks that didn't do much or didn't do anything in the NFL.
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
Also, Odunze seems like he is destined for Harbaugh and the Chargers he could be a better version of Keenan Allen with impeccable character. A repeat of history for Harbaugh like how he took Michael Crabtree with pick 10 in his first year with the 49ers back in 2009. Nabers is likely knocked down a few notches on our bigboard due to his unpermitted gun incident at Mardis Gras last year (flashbacks to Toney, Plaxico, Baker. Etc.). So I'm afraid all those wanting WR at 6 are lacking some traction. If we don't go QB or no QB is there and Odunze goes to the Chargers I see us trading down with the Bears to 9 (they take Nabers) and then maybe trading down again if possible or take Bowers at 9.
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In comment 16437484 Big Rick in FL said:
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
It makes no sense to me. Sure you could draft a bust at QB. Just as likely to draft a bust at WR, OT or Edge Rusher.
Robert Gallery, Solomon Thomas, Jerry Jeudy, Charles Rogers, Justin Blackmon, Trent Richardson, Jason Smith, Vernon Gholston, Kevin White, Derrick Harvey, Justin Gilbert, Dee Milliner are a couple names off the top of my head that were top 5 or top 10 picks that didn't do much or didn't do anything in the NFL.
Corey Davis is a good example of another recent WR bust.
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
It's like last year never happened. You want to tell me his injury worries you, I totally get that, but if healthy, is Jones such a terrible option?
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
People generally don’t see the big picture of statistical odds nor ability to influence outcomes. If you could quantify the ability to impact W/L in the NFL, a QBs number would be x1000 over any other position.
And a 50% chance of a negative outcome from a QB prospect a team selects is incredibly better odds than most scenarios. The Giants have to follow the math here…
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In comment 16437484 Big Rick in FL said:
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
It's like last year never happened. You want to tell me his injury worries you, I totally get that, but if healthy, is Jones such a terrible option?
With his cap number compared to a rookie playing just as good or better for 20% or less yes we are 1000% better off. By 2026 we could have a really solid team built around a rookie qb contract. We can't do that with DJ whether he is healthy or not (and it's not like we can ignore his injury plagued career).
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In comment 16437484 Big Rick in FL said:
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
It's like last year never happened. You want to tell me his injury worries you, I totally get that, but if healthy, is Jones such a terrible option?
Ummm yes he is a terrible option. In the last 47 games he's thrown 38 TDs and 28 INTs & 27 fumbles with a 19-27-1 record. Those numbers are all skewed by a decent 2022. If you take that away his numbers are likely some of if not the worst in the entire NFL.
You don't think that's a terrible option?
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That half of the fan base thinks that Giants will trade up for JJM, who most have rated as QB4, instead of getting one of these 2 guys at 6. So 2 first round picks spent on a worse prospect, or one first round pick spent that will clearly improve the team.
Keep in mind this team already lost its best weapon, and its second best weapon is contemplating retirement. Their leading receiver from last year is a FA after the season. They decided not to pay Hodgins as well.
True.
But the Giants don't have a QB.
If Schoen has 55 million in cap space spent on the QB position and no QB he needs to be fired yesterday!
I don’t think these QBs are that great overall. They all have question marks. So let the draft play out and see what happens at 6 or later.
If you go QB in the 1st they absolutely have to get a WR in the 2nd. Slayton as our #1 is pretty pathetic.
If NYG were to draft JJM he will most likely be at the very least QB 2 but more likely QB3. I would expect NYG to bring him along slowly unless every QB ahead of him is injured.
I can also see NYG moving up into the back end of round 1 to draft a WR. Thomas, McConkey, Franklin are all excellent guys that will not last until pick 47.
Giving up pick 39 for Burns hurts a little but Schoen will need to get creative to get both the QB and the WR on days 1/2 in April.
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In comment 16437490 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16437484 Big Rick in FL said:
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
It makes no sense to me. Sure you could draft a bust at QB. Just as likely to draft a bust at WR, OT or Edge Rusher.
Robert Gallery, Solomon Thomas, Jerry Jeudy, Charles Rogers, Justin Blackmon, Trent Richardson, Jason Smith, Vernon Gholston, Kevin White, Derrick Harvey, Justin Gilbert, Dee Milliner are a couple names off the top of my head that were top 5 or top 10 picks that didn't do much or didn't do anything in the NFL.
Corey Davis is a good example of another recent WR bust.
That being your WR ‘bust’ really says everything we need to know about this conversation.
WR’s drafted in the top 6, since 2004
Chase
Waddle
Corey Davis
Amari Cooper
Sammy Watkins
Justin Blackmon
AJ Green
Julio
Calvin Johnson
Braylon Edwards
Fitz
Exclude Blackmon. He was good, but a head case who drank himself out of the league. Jags ignored obvious redflags. Outside of him, it’s telling that the 3 biggest “busts” of that group - Davis, Watkins, Edwards - all played at a replacement-level or better during their peak. All 3, at their respective peaks, would be an upgrade to the Giants WR group.
I also spot more Hall of Fame caliber players on that list than I do ‘busts’. This tells me the NFL is much better at evaluating and projecting WR’s than they are other positions - like QB (and OL)
So, the worst case on drafting a WR at 6 is you only end up with a ‘slightly above average starter’
The worst case on QB is you end up with Zach Wilson or Trey Lance type of pick. Where you burned premium draft capital on a guy that gives you well below replacement-level play for a few years.
So anyone who dismisses the idea that WR is a safer pick is dismissing the cold hard truth
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In comment 16437490 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16437484 Big Rick in FL said:
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
It's like last year never happened. You want to tell me his injury worries you, I totally get that, but if healthy, is Jones such a terrible option?
Ummm yes he is a terrible option. In the last 47 games he's thrown 38 TDs and 28 INTs & 27 fumbles with a 19-27-1 record. Those numbers are all skewed by a decent 2022. If you take that away his numbers are likely some of if not the worst in the entire NFL.
You don't think that's a terrible option?
Well, you aren't including his rushing TD's, or the amount of times he got the Giants inside the 10 yard line, only to have Barkley take it in.
Either way, I think we both can agree he's not an elite QB, but do you think if you put a good team around him, do you think he can be more productive? Would he have been better on Philly or Dallas, or would he have bee terrible their as well?
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In comment 16437509 barens said:
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In comment 16437490 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16437484 Big Rick in FL said:
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No clue why the QBs are the only players talked about being busts.
How many "sure things" or "safer" prospects have we seen over the last 20-25 years that end up being a bust?
It's the new talking point for those who can no longer come up with a valid reason to keep Jones.
It's actually getting pretty funny.
It's like last year never happened. You want to tell me his injury worries you, I totally get that, but if healthy, is Jones such a terrible option?
Ummm yes he is a terrible option. In the last 47 games he's thrown 38 TDs and 28 INTs & 27 fumbles with a 19-27-1 record. Those numbers are all skewed by a decent 2022. If you take that away his numbers are likely some of if not the worst in the entire NFL.
You don't think that's a terrible option?
Well, you aren't including his rushing TD's, or the amount of times he got the Giants inside the 10 yard line, only to have Barkley take it in.
Either way, I think we both can agree he's not an elite QB, but do you think if you put a good team around him, do you think he can be more productive? Would he have been better on Philly or Dallas, or would he have bee terrible their as well?
Sorry ill include rushing TDs. There are 11 of them. So he averages just barely over 1 TD a game over the course of the last 4 seasons.
Who knows how he'd be on Philly or Dallas? I know Tyrod Taylor outplayed Daniel Jones last year. When your QB is making 40 million a year he needs to make the team better not need everything perfect to succeed.
An injury-plagued QB who can't play a 17-game season, won't throw down the field, and can't throw enough TD passes won't get us there.
Again, not to sound like a broken record, but there was no discernible difference between Taylor/DeVito and Jones. In fact, if you look at the stats I posted in the other thread (QBR, yards per attempt, INT percentage, TD percentage), Jones was clearly the worst of the three.
Eventually the Giants will have to stop being passive with addressing this position. It's killing this franchise.
But when Jones is healthy, he's the starter. He's the QB who gives the Giants the best chance to win and I believe it's best for a rookie to sit anyway. I don't think it's a coincidence that the list of QBs who sat at least a year includes Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Pat Mahomes (and the list is longer than that).