Why Schoen is in an even

Will have both JS and BD packing up their fancy scouting binoculars and turning in their Meadowlands key cards.

but I give Schoen 2 more years, 2024 and 2025. This day and age, a GM should be able to turn a franchise around in 4 years. Really, many can do it quicker, but Schoen did inherit a debacle.

He's done some good things and some bad things. I don't think any fan has, or should have, great loyalty to him. I know the Maras supposedly prize "stability," but that is belied by all the coaching changes.

2 years, Joe, or it's on to the next one.

and he passes on a QB in 24 who turns out to be a stud, do you really trust Schoen to draft our next QB? He will have f'd up his evaluation of Jones AND decided that the QB available to him in the 2024 draft (assuming one is) wasn't worth trading up for. I certainly wouldn't trust him to then go draft our next QB in 25.

In comment 16438125 LW_Giants said:

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and he passes on a QB in 24 who turns out to be a stud, do you really trust Schoen to draft our next QB? He will have f'd up his evaluation of Jones AND decided that the QB available to him in the 2024 draft (assuming one is) wasn't worth trading up for. I certainly wouldn't trust him to then go draft our next QB in 25.

If this happens and they can him I will not lose a moment of sleep. I just think next year will be moderately ok and therefore he buys himself another year. If the wheels fall off and they want to move on, so be it.

Jones or any of this years QBs, the conjecture is pretty pointless. If he really wants a guy, I assume he will spend what it takes to get him, as he has in previous drafts

a likely significant overpay to trade up or losing out on their QB being part of the calculus.

Looking at the whole thing like a mathematical equation that also has a PR quotient

if someone else makes the trade in front. He his hung out to dry if he choses Jones if JJ is there at 6

It's worse than that because if he does land McCarthy (or any other QB) and that QB busts, he's done too.

But such is life as a GM in 2024.

Even my wife said tonight, "You realize that AT LEAST two of these four QBs are going to stink?"

In comment 16438158 Eric from BBI said:

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It's worse than that because if he does land McCarthy (or any other QB) and that QB busts, he's done too. But such is life as a GM in 2024. Even my wife said tonight, "You realize that AT LEAST two of these four QBs are going to stink?"

Yup. That's why I think Schoen gets 2 years of rope no matter what.

The business of QBs is almost always a high stakes game.

Gettleman got four years and he never made the playoffs. Schoen was GM of the first Giant playoff team in 6 years and the first Giant team to win a playoff game in 11 years.
In light of that Schoen is at least getting 4 years if not more. Daboll the same.

It's not an easy job and there are tough decisions to be made. JS and BD will have a plan and they will execute on it. Either it will work out or it won't, and if it doesn't, then the team will move on. That's just the way it works. It's a results driven business, we always knew that.

a QB buys Schoen and Daboll at least two years. It's one of the points I raised in my QB article.

Fans will accept the team struggling if they have hope. A new QB provides hope for a couple of years.

In comment 16438178 Eric from BBI said:

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a QB buys Schoen and Daboll at least two years. It's one of the points I raised in my QB article. Fans will accept the team struggling if they have hope. A new QB provides hope for a couple of years.

First off,listen to your wife...she's 100% right.
Secondly I have the exact opposite take,Schoen would be taking a huge gamble by drafting a QB.
Heres my logic:
Mara loves DJ-if Schoen replaces him with a dud via a premium draft pick-he's done....
However,he will have Mara's blessing to roll with DJ at least for this year....
Why would Schoen take that gamble???
He can simply take BPA and be completely exonerated from the risk of a bust at QB.

Since 2016, Mara has fired four head coaches and two general managers.

Why?

Empty seats.

Daniel Jones is not going to fill the seats.

If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost.

In comment 16438193 UberAlias said:

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If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost.

That's where they're headed until they get a QB.

In comment 16438193 UberAlias said:

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If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost.

In a sane League, this would make sense. But patience is gone. Teams like the Steelers and Ravens are the outliers.

Again, since 2016, John Mara has fired two general managers and four head coaches.

Before Jerry Reese was fired, I had never experienced a Giants' GM being fired. Now it has happened twice in the last few years.

In comment 16438196 JonC said:

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In comment 16438193 UberAlias said: Quote: If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost. That's where they're headed until they get a QB.

This is where I get frustrated every time I hear this statement. They don't need A QB. They need the right QB.

In comment 16438201 UberAlias said:

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In comment 16438196 JonC said: Quote: In comment 16438193 UberAlias said: Quote: If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost. That's where they're headed until they get a QB. This is where I get frustrated every time I hear this statement. They don't need A QB. They need the right QB.

You don’t know if you have the right QB until they take one and throw him out there.

They have the wrong one right now.

and take a WR #1, and take a QB in round 3/4 like Rattler or Pratt, what's the downside?
You've got an offensive building block, 2 hopefully serviceable QBs, keep DJ on PUP and send Tommy Canoli to his uncle's restaurant.
2024 record probably near as good as getting JJM, who, IMO, is just another DJ.

In comment 16438209 Bill in TN said:

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and take a WR #1, and take a QB in round 3/4 like Rattler or Pratt, what's the downside? You've got an offensive building block, 2 hopefully serviceable QBs, keep DJ on PUP and send Tommy Canoli to his uncle's restaurant. 2024 record probably near as good as getting JJM, who, IMO, is just another DJ.

Taking a QB later is certainly an option. But again, how many QB needy teams will pass on the Giants' next target? We have six picks left.

In comment 16438192 Eric from BBI said:

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Since 2016, Mara has fired four head coaches and two general managers. Why? Empty seats. Daniel Jones is not going to fill the seats.

I don't think Mara is worried about that...
My point is all things being equal,Schoen is INCENTIVISED to keep DJ,at least this year.
If you think drafting a young QB is going to help our record in 2024,you are very mistaken...so even if Schoen took a short term approach to it,he still comes up with the same answer.
BTW,how do I change my user name so its not all caps?
I have tried numerous times

In comment 16438198 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16438193 UberAlias said: Quote: If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost. In a sane League, this would make sense. But patience is gone. Teams like the Steelers and Ravens are the outliers. Again, since 2016, John Mara has fired two general managers and four head coaches. Before Jerry Reese was fired, I had never experienced a Giants' GM being fired. Now it has happened twice in the last few years.

They may be gone anyway. I'm not saying that patience will save their careers. But desperation won't either. I can't guarantee that a sound reasoned planned will translate to longevity. But I can say with certainty that shortsightedness will prevent it. They need answers here, there is no denying that. But if the only answers provided are ones of self preservation, that's going to get exposed.

In comment 16438201 UberAlias said:

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In comment 16438196 JonC said: Quote: In comment 16438193 UberAlias said: Quote: If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost. That's where they're headed until they get a QB. This is where I get frustrated every time I hear this statement. They don't need A QB. They need the right QB.

I think you know I mean the right QB, and not a QB for the sake of one. They already have those.

I think the QB orgasm will be over. Guys like the two I mentioned should still be available in rd. 3 or 4.

In comment 16438208 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 16438201 UberAlias said: Quote: In comment 16438196 JonC said: Quote: In comment 16438193 UberAlias said: Quote: If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost. That's where they're headed until they get a QB. This is where I get frustrated every time I hear this statement. They don't need A QB. They need the right QB. You don’t know if you have the right QB until they take one and throw him out there. They have the wrong one right now.

That's why they get paid the big bucks and have the resources. They know what grades they have on the player. I can tell you that teams reaching for QBs almost never works out.

Victor Cruz was a UDFA. Just do that again.

They managed to make the playoffs and win a game. Instead of following his own plan he said he went after wins.

2 years in and he has failed more than he succeeded. Neal is one nail in his coffin, his dealings with DJ are another, all the star players on the team were drafted by the previous GM.

Now his signature move to date is Burns. Burns is a nice player but is he a $30 mil player and a 2nd rounder??? I don’t think so.

Now he has poured a ton of assets and cash into the OL. Is it finally fixed? Until you see them play it can’t be answered. To my eyes, Neal can’t play OT. For an athletic guy he sure looks slow and plodding.

Our skill positions as of today are the worst in the league. I just can’t see how they can look at the skill positions and feel good. It was bad with Barkley and if Slayton starts the season at #1 it’s misappropriation of resources.

Much like Golladay when Schoen arrived, Jones can’t be cut. It makes no sense to cut him, add $5 mil for Lock and draft a QB. Especially if you have to give up assets.

Schoen made his own bad decisions, the DG safety net is gone. If the Giants don’t compete for a playoff spot this year I don’t see how he recovers.

In comment 16438220 JonC said:

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In comment 16438201 UberAlias said: Quote: In comment 16438196 JonC said: Quote: In comment 16438193 UberAlias said: Quote: If this is the calculus here, then we have the wrong guys. Any GM motivated by trying to skate out a few years isn't going to last long regardless. You have to have vision and conviction. Without that, you've already lost. That's where they're headed until they get a QB. This is where I get frustrated every time I hear this statement. They don't need A QB. They need the right QB. I think you know I mean the right QB, and not a QB for the sake of one. They already have those.

Yes, but that's the key point, IMO. DJ is not the answer, that's the given here, we agree. But the notion is that their hands are forced to act out of desperation because their jobs depend on it. And while I agree it's a slippery slope, if that is the entire calculus then they aren't the right guys for the job. That would be a DG-esque move.

That's why they're in a tough spot --because they don't have the luxury of patience.

In comment 16438223 UberAlias said:

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That's why they get paid the big bucks and have the resources. They know what grades they have on the player. I can tell you that teams reaching for QBs almost never works out.

It’s only a reach if it doesn’t work out.

You can have all the resources you want, but you have no idea if the QB you took is going to be the right one until you see them play against an NFL defense.

It's not looking good. Until the drafting delivers, he's chasing and refilling holes every two years. I like Burns but contract is a sign of desperation imv.

In comment 16438230 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 16438223 UberAlias said: Quote: That's why they get paid the big bucks and have the resources. They know what grades they have on the player. I can tell you that teams reaching for QBs almost never works out. It’s only a reach if it doesn’t work out. You can have all the resources you want, but you have no idea if the QB you took is going to be the right one until you see them play against an NFL defense.

I don't think any GM worth a lick thinks this way.

QB isn't the only thing that'll do him in. Oline could do it just as easily.

I think that's also part of Dave's point. Tough to expect one to put all logic ahead of protecting their job. Every year we see GMs make such decisions and it fails because the process is fundamentally broken.

Schoen has shown to be very green. Now he's got a shot to potentially get a top 3 QB and help his survival prospects. Let's hope he pulls it off for the right QB.

In comment 16438232 UberAlias said:

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In comment 16438230 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 16438223 UberAlias said: Quote: That's why they get paid the big bucks and have the resources. They know what grades they have on the player. I can tell you that teams reaching for QBs almost never works out. It’s only a reach if it doesn’t work out. You can have all the resources you want, but you have no idea if the QB you took is going to be the right one until you see them play against an NFL defense. I don't think any GM worth a lick thinks this way.

That’s the reality of it.

It's been far too long, and quite frankly, exhausting.

in this draft. Not to say a QB he can add can’t be better the ones drafted before us but you know Schoen would like the situation reversed and hold more of the cards.

He’s not an idiot like DG but he fell into the same trap which was misreading where they were on a rebuild and having faith in a flawed QB.

Let’s see if he can rebound in his job.

In comment 16438267 ThomasG said:

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in this draft. Not to say a QB he can add can’t be better the ones drafted before us but you know Schoen would like the situation reversed and hold more of the cards. He’s not an idiot like DG but he fell into the same trap which was misreading where they were on a rebuild and having faith in a flawed QB. Let’s see if he can rebound in his job.

Agreed. Would wager they prefer to sit at #6 and pick JJ or Maye, if one is there. But, the Vikes trade activity obviously is an issue with staying put.

Fourth round. If Schoen is gonna pass on a top qb prospect then have the balls to go full throttle and punt entirely on picking a qb until 2025.

Ironically, picking a qb in the later rounds may be the most desperate attempt to keep his job and placate fans.

has made some personnel mistakes. He signed Jones, traded for Waller and as of now he hasn't improved the OL. We had to sign Runyan, Eluemunor, Stinnie, and Schlottmann because at least so far Neal, Schmitz, Ezeudu, and McKethan haven't produced much. Campbell also didn't produce anything, but we were really short of WRs at that time. But his drafts otherwise have been good, and he signed Okereke.

Schoen should not be fired even if a QB he drafts at six busts. Fifty percent of first round QBs do. We also need to stop constantly firing GMs and coaches. I would only consider firing him if he made a massive move up for a QB that busted.

Schoen is a first time GM. He's going to make some mistakes. Patience.

In comment 16438234 UberAlias said:

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QB isn't the only thing that'll do him in. Oline could do it just as easily.

You seem to be making an assumption that when the Giants select at 6 - any QB chosen is an act of desperation. You haven't come out and said that but your posts are implying that even if you probably don't mean it.

Why would you have assumed JonC meant to take any QB? You said you were frustrated by his post, didn't you?

I believe you have made many posts about the trenches. I fully support if that was you. But - it seems the top 6 QB's are rated pretty well and there is no indication in the future that the Giants will be in this position again? IS that "desperation?" IMO it is not. It's "opportunity.”

Unless you know of something different -- it seems the top 6 QB's are all well regarded. It is not desperation to say "we need to get one" - when we don't have one currently and we will have an opportunity to get one.

When comments are being made this year that we need to get a QB—it should be understood imo that it’s being made because the quality of this class among the 1st 6 is pretty well regarded vs highly unknown beyond this year. It’s time to take advantage of the opportunity.

In comment 16438310 AcidTest said:

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has made some personnel mistakes. He signed Jones, traded for Waller and as of now he hasn't improved the OL. We had to sign Runyan, Eluemunor, Stinnie, and Schlottmann because at least so far Neal, Schmitz, Ezeudu, and McKethan haven't produced much. Campbell also didn't produce anything, but we were really short of WRs at that time. But his drafts otherwise have been good, and he signed Okereke. Schoen should not be fired even if a QB he drafts at six busts. Fifty percent of first round QBs do. We also need to stop constantly firing GMs and coaches. I would only consider firing him if he made a massive move up for a QB that busted. Schoen is a first time GM. He's going to make some mistakes. Patience.

+1

To draft one of these top 4 QB’s next month. If we sit and watch Minnesota get to 3, 4, or 5, they’ve failed. 2025 is gonna be shit draft for QB’s, so then what? Start fucking Jones and hope Arch Manning is the prize in….2026? No way these guys last that long. Jones is a coach killer. Schoen and Daboll, if they don’t draft a guy, are his next victims. They just don’t know it yet.

Was amazing in 2023. This team had no business winning 6 games.

You think about everything that happened to this roster starting in week one and continuing on throughout the season, and how these players clawed and fought, to me it was an impressive coaching performance.

hearing is from fans projecting. There is nothing Schoen can do if Minny wants to give up the store to NE. It was a pipe dream for the Giants to get to #3 before Minnesota showed up and it moreso now.

I wouldn't mind throwing in #1 in 2025 if they believe in Maye or McCarthy. But if Wolf already supposedly turned down the Giants offer, what makes you think he takes Minnesota's when it is not much better(if it is) than what the Giants offered. Basically he'd be missing on the QB he needs also. Is he really taking Nix at 11 instead of Maye at 3? We believe Denver wants Nix. What prevents Denver trading with the Jets or Bears to get ahead of NE?

It is lying season. Every day means a new lie.

In comment 16438436 section125 said:

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hearing is from fans projecting. There is nothing Schoen can do if Minny wants to give up the store to NE. It was a pipe dream for the Giants to get to #3 before Minnesota showed up and it moreso now. I wouldn't mind throwing in #1 in 2025 if they believe in Maye or McCarthy. But if Wolf already supposedly turned down the Giants offer, what makes you think he takes Minnesota's when it is not much better(if it is) than what the Giants offered. Basically he'd be missing on the QB he needs also. Is he really taking Nix at 11 instead of Maye at 3? We believe Denver wants Nix. What prevents Denver trading with the Jets or Bears to get ahead of NE? It is lying season. Every day means a new lie.

If they miss out on he top 4 QB's they still are in the hunt for Penix and Nix. And they could have had Fields.

Vrabel and Belicheck sitting out there unemployed right now is not going to do wonders for job security.

Giant fans that post here daily sound frustrated and exhausted. Your choice and it must be what you like to do. Nothing said here is going to change what happens.