Wellington & Tim made such a dysfunctional mess of things in the 70s that Pete Rozelle had to step in to mediate. Will the current Mara regime, especially John & Chris, be remembered any better?
I think their stewardship has been marked by anachronism and nepotism. When faced with a crisis, their instinct was to contact Ernie Accorsi and get his recommendation to hire a neanderthal to be the GM. They then used their prime assets on a devalued position and a QB based not on his talent and college success, but on his perceived similarities to Eli Manning.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
I think their stewardship has been marked by anachronism and nepotism. When faced with a crisis, their instinct was to contact Ernie Accorsi and get his recommendation to hire a neanderthal to be the GM. They then used their prime assets on a devalued position and a QB based not on his talent and college success, but on his perceived similarities to Eli Manning.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
I think their stewardship has been marked by anachronism and nepotism. When faced with a crisis, their instinct was to contact Ernie Accorsi and get his recommendation to hire a neanderthal to be the GM. They then used their prime assets on a devalued position and a QB based not on his talent and college success, but on his perceived similarities to Eli Manning.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
It's a prevailing problem in corporate America. Corporate oligarchs who think they are smarter than everyone else, but who are not, and worse, who are disconnected from their customers. Growing trend.
John Mara faced an inflection point in 2015, and opted for continuity in place of ingenuity.
Instead of completely cleaning house and allowing for a new set of voices to take the baton, he opted for a gradual transition with largely the same voices.
It's remarkable how Mara eroded the stunning amount of good grace the fan base held for the team after 2011.
RE: You could argue Accoris set them up for the SB wins
Current regime, the results speak for themselves, it's been dreadful.
And it's a very strong argument. If not for Rozelle & George Young, the Giants franchise would likely have 0 Super Bowls and bear a very strong resemblance as a franchise to the Detroit Lions.
Young built the backbone of the 80s and early 90s teams that won two Super Bowls. Young was succeeded by his deputy, Accorsi, who adapted the operation for the salary cap era and built the foundation of the 2000 NFC Champs, followed by the Manning draft trade and construction of the team that would win the Super Bowl in 2007.
If you want to give John Mara credit for sticking with Coughlin after 2006, fine, but he also needs to be judged harshly for everything that has happened in the last decade.
Mara et al began to exert more influence after EA retired, imo. The past twelve seasons are more reflective of that than the handful of intervening years between Wellington's passing and the program beginning to fall apart in 2012 and beyond.
I agree with GT that they didn’t get out of their comfort zone when it came to DG.
I hope they had a ‘come to Jesus’ moment with the Schoen hire, someone with no ties to the organization. But who knows? I could be completely wrong, but I’ll forever believe Mara all but made it an edict that Jones be brought back, which is looking like an all time fuck up. And it was depressing to read some poster with supposed inside info saying yesterday that people-& I assume John too-still think highly of Jones as a player, which is UFB lunacy.
If this team gets off to a slow start, I expect more empty seats at MetLife this fall & an even more checked out fan base. Imagine being a Giants fan born in say 2006…you’re 18 now and have no memory of 07 & very limited memories of 11, if any. Depressing.
Mara was hugely influential in getting his father to move off Kerry Collins in favor of Eli Manning.
Also, he kept Coughlin when pretty much no one else would.
Considering the Coughlin and Eli era was one of the high points for this franchise, not sure how you go about fairly separating John Mara from that, but this is what Giants fans do.
Hell, I’ve read on this board many times that Accorsi is a slouch.
I think their stewardship has been marked by anachronism and nepotism. When faced with a crisis, their instinct was to contact Ernie Accorsi and get his recommendation to hire a neanderthal to be the GM. They then used their prime assets on a devalued position and a QB based not on his talent and college success, but on his perceived similarities to Eli Manning.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
I think this is very fair. I definitely give Mara his fair share of credit for the two Super Bowl titles, there were inflection points in that era which he could have took a wrong turn in direction:
1. Moving off Coughlin after 2006 was the preferred scenario amongst the fans. Mara did not do this.
2. Moving off Coughlin after 2010 when there was frustration over how the season ended.
3. Sticking with Eli.
Those aren't throwaway items. Those matter and are a reason NYG won in 2007 and 2011 as opposed to a premature reset. Many owners would have lacked the patience there.
However, I do think he looks back on that to guide his decisions now which is a failure. Daniel Jones is the sixth longest tenured QB in the NFL with the same team. Ridiculous.
The majority of owners are really bad. But, the good ones are so far ahead of what Mara has been doing in the last decade plus. Too often, he takes the easy path.
I don't think there is any great philosophical parallel or endemic reflection in how Mara has operated.
There's virtually no penalty for being bad at operating your team. The lion's share of the revenue is collectively earned and distributed. The incremental day-of revenue (both from football and from non-football events) is predictable and diversified. Sucking at football doesn't lose Mara much if any money.
I think Mara operates out of a very loyal, empathetic, and earnest ethos. When I look back at his failures, the root cause is often sticking with a guy he likes, or guys that have had past success for too long.
I don't think there is any great philosophical parallel or endemic reflection in how Mara has operated.
There's virtually no penalty for being bad at operating your team. The lion's share of the revenue is collectively earned and distributed. The incremental day-of revenue (both from football and from non-football events) is predictable and diversified. Sucking at football doesn't lose Mara much if any money.
I think Mara operates out of a very loyal, empathetic, and earnest ethos. When I look back at his failures, the root cause is often sticking with a guy he likes, or guys that have had past success for too long.
It's still the smartest thing I've ever read on BBI, and I can't remember who posted it: The Maras want to win, but they don't try to win.
I think their stewardship has been marked by anachronism and nepotism. When faced with a crisis, their instinct was to contact Ernie Accorsi and get his recommendation to hire a neanderthal to be the GM. They then used their prime assets on a devalued position and a QB based not on his talent and college success, but on his perceived similarities to Eli Manning.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
Yet, we all still show up for the comments and games. So short of a protest or a plane flying a banner over the stadium, what's going to change?
I don't think there is any great philosophical parallel or endemic reflection in how Mara has operated.
There's virtually no penalty for being bad at operating your team. The lion's share of the revenue is collectively earned and distributed. The incremental day-of revenue (both from football and from non-football events) is predictable and diversified. Sucking at football doesn't lose Mara much if any money.
I think Mara operates out of a very loyal, empathetic, and earnest ethos. When I look back at his failures, the root cause is often sticking with a guy he likes, or guys that have had past success for too long.
It's still the smartest thing I've ever read on BBI, and I can't remember who posted it: The Maras want to win, but they don't try to win.
Yup it's perfect description. In a system where there is no penalty for losing, Mara is the perfect owner.
If this were the EPL, the Giants would have been relegated a decade ago. They are the Wolves circa 2012.
Mara had a half ass GM search after Reese was fired and he brought on old man Acorsi to be a consultant...why? No clue.
Not smart to ask help of a then 75 year old man who MISSED AT EVERY CONSULTANT OPPURTUNITY HE HAD.
"On November 9, 2012, Accorsi was hired by the Carolina Panthers as a consultant after general manager Marty Hurney was fired.
On December 29, 2014, it was announced that Accorsi had been hired by the Chicago Bears as a consultant for their general manager search after Phil Emery was fired. That search resulted in the hiring of Ryan Pace.
On November 25, 2015, Accorsi was named a consultant for the Detroit Lions' search for a new general manager.
Accorsi was named as a special adviser to the team on January 10, 2016, after he assisted the Lions in their search for general manager Bob Quinn."
Great track record and a lazy pivot, Mara is one of the main reasons we are in this fucking dumpster fire.
by buying medium Pepsis and what not. So I say, they are geniuses who are laughing all the way to the bank while selling cardboard and making everyone think it's a Steak.
strong retaining TC when you had a lot of pressure to move on from him. Wellington knew what he was getting when he hired him and John allowed him to follow through.
He sided with Reese and allowed him to run the franchise into the ground over time. Worse, he allowed the franchise to move away from George Young's commitment to being strong at the line of scrimmage.
He has been swimming against the tide for years now.
He still has some time but is now over a decade since this franchise has been to a NFCCG. Over half of that time was with a future HOF QB which makes it much worse imv.
Personally I couldn't care less how the current Mara regime, or any Mara regime for that matter is remembered. But I do feel everyone's pain. as I have joked in the past its been what 18 games since the Giants last won a playoff game.
I think its also fair to point out that the Giants have won 4 Super Bowls and only four other teams have won more (and two of those had the luxury of having GOAT type QBs.) Stated another way, while the Giants have won 4 SBs 12 of the 32 teams in the league have never won any. And its actually been half the league has not won a SB since the Giants won their first. So I'm guessing if you guys were talking to fans of Arizona, Atlanta, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Carolina, Tennessee, Houston and the LA Chargers they might think you were coming off a little whiney. (And they'd be right!!)
I don't know if people have noticed, but there's a certain pattern here. The Giants had a nifty championship run in the late 1950s and early 1960s, then went through a long drought affectionately known as the 70s; won a couple of SBs in the 80s which was followed by another downturn in the 90s; which was followed by a second SB run in the first decade of the century and yet another slump the following decade.
In the now almost 70 years that I have been following the NFL I have grown to be somewhat cynical about the whole business. Its a cyclical game in which so much of whether you win or lose in the NFL ultimately comes down to luck or at least whether you have good players or not.
However, if there are any lessons to be learned I think a couple of things stand out when one looks back at the Giants history, especially their winning phases. In the 50-60s they won with a great defence and a state of the art passing game; they won on the 1980s almost totally on the backs of one of the NFL's great defences; and they won the 7/11 titles with a good QB throwing to a couple of elite receiver corps as well as the NASCAR pass rush hitting on all cylinders.
And if I have any criticism of how the last decade unfolded its that we got away from that formula, especially regarding the defence.
with PSLs, parking passes, and way higher ticket prices. Bringing the team from Wellington's fondness for the ticket holders, to the modern greedy NFL.
Obviously the past 13yrs have been absolutely dreadful. They ruined Eli’s prime years with terrible drafting, FA, not fixing the OL around him… then even worse making the decision to hire DG as GM.
But on the flip side, he took over in 2005, they won 2 Superbowls… both amazing post season runs and most likely a 3rd if not for Burress shooting himself in 2008. Do you take the 2 SB wins with all the bad years? Outside of the Patriots, Steelers and more recently the Chiefs, look at the other teams throughout the league the past 19 years… there’s not many I’d take over the Giants ownership.
And as a whole.. from Wellington to John & Tim the Giants are
One of the most successful franchises in the history of the NFL. If it wasn’t for Wellington Mara making the league equal in profit sharing, the NFL wouldn’t be anywhere near what it is today.
Yes the lean years of the 70’s… Roselle having George Young take over was a low point… but 4 Super Bowl wins and 4 championships pre Super Bowl era.. they are still along with the Rooney’s one of the top ownerships in NFL history.
Wellington must be spinning in his grave watching this shitshow
Really, it was inept when Wellington was alive until Rozelle stepped in and forced them to hire Young. All the credit goes to Young and Parcells. Wellington had nothing to do with it
I think their stewardship has been marked by anachronism and nepotism. When faced with a crisis, their instinct was to contact Ernie Accorsi and get his recommendation to hire a neanderthal to be the GM. They then used their prime assets on a devalued position and a QB based not on his talent and college success, but on his perceived similarities to Eli Manning.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
In negotiation - can't hold his tongue to gush about a player entering a contract discussion even though any idiot could tell you that the way he was talking will cost you real dollars. Jones firing his agent was a clear sign of how much he knew he could milk Mara.
In marketing / customer relations - I've seen few misfires bigger than the Medium Pepsi incident. It is difficult to anger people by giving something away.
In management - he's created such a crappy culture of nepotism that it trickles down. Your star player Kayvon commenting on your terrible asset management vis a vis Saquon and Jones (it was so bad many in the league had things to say) not one but both of your coordinators wanted out. Not too long after Columbo had to be fired for dissent with superiors. That spanned two coaches...
In poise - good leaders don't get into fights with garbage cans. Or really inanimate objects of any kind, other than say a punching bag.
The limits of his incompetence know no bounds. You'd think he'd have the good sense to shrink his responsibilities and influence due to all of this but no! The king that can't lose his crown just loves to throw his incompetence in all of our faces.
He's worse than Dolan at this point. At least Dolan has learned some lessons, maybe John Mara should start a shitty band and leave us all alone.
Hey oh!!
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
Well said. What a disaster the stadium is
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
It's a prevailing problem in corporate America. Corporate oligarchs who think they are smarter than everyone else, but who are not, and worse, who are disconnected from their customers. Growing trend.
John Mara faced an inflection point in 2015, and opted for continuity in place of ingenuity.
Instead of completely cleaning house and allowing for a new set of voices to take the baton, he opted for a gradual transition with largely the same voices.
It's remarkable how Mara eroded the stunning amount of good grace the fan base held for the team after 2011.
And it's a very strong argument. If not for Rozelle & George Young, the Giants franchise would likely have 0 Super Bowls and bear a very strong resemblance as a franchise to the Detroit Lions.
Young built the backbone of the 80s and early 90s teams that won two Super Bowls. Young was succeeded by his deputy, Accorsi, who adapted the operation for the salary cap era and built the foundation of the 2000 NFC Champs, followed by the Manning draft trade and construction of the team that would win the Super Bowl in 2007.
If you want to give John Mara credit for sticking with Coughlin after 2006, fine, but he also needs to be judged harshly for everything that has happened in the last decade.
I hope they had a ‘come to Jesus’ moment with the Schoen hire, someone with no ties to the organization. But who knows? I could be completely wrong, but I’ll forever believe Mara all but made it an edict that Jones be brought back, which is looking like an all time fuck up. And it was depressing to read some poster with supposed inside info saying yesterday that people-& I assume John too-still think highly of Jones as a player, which is UFB lunacy.
If this team gets off to a slow start, I expect more empty seats at MetLife this fall & an even more checked out fan base. Imagine being a Giants fan born in say 2006…you’re 18 now and have no memory of 07 & very limited memories of 11, if any. Depressing.
Also, he kept Coughlin when pretty much no one else would.
Considering the Coughlin and Eli era was one of the high points for this franchise, not sure how you go about fairly separating John Mara from that, but this is what Giants fans do.
Hell, I’ve read on this board many times that Accorsi is a slouch.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
I think this is very fair. I definitely give Mara his fair share of credit for the two Super Bowl titles, there were inflection points in that era which he could have took a wrong turn in direction:
1. Moving off Coughlin after 2006 was the preferred scenario amongst the fans. Mara did not do this.
2. Moving off Coughlin after 2010 when there was frustration over how the season ended.
3. Sticking with Eli.
Those aren't throwaway items. Those matter and are a reason NYG won in 2007 and 2011 as opposed to a premature reset. Many owners would have lacked the patience there.
However, I do think he looks back on that to guide his decisions now which is a failure. Daniel Jones is the sixth longest tenured QB in the NFL with the same team. Ridiculous.
The majority of owners are really bad. But, the good ones are so far ahead of what Mara has been doing in the last decade plus. Too often, he takes the easy path.
Quote:
A Night Mara.
How'd you add the embedded video Eric? Administrator privileges or a new feature?
There's virtually no penalty for being bad at operating your team. The lion's share of the revenue is collectively earned and distributed. The incremental day-of revenue (both from football and from non-football events) is predictable and diversified. Sucking at football doesn't lose Mara much if any money.
I think Mara operates out of a very loyal, empathetic, and earnest ethos. When I look back at his failures, the root cause is often sticking with a guy he likes, or guys that have had past success for too long.
There's virtually no penalty for being bad at operating your team. The lion's share of the revenue is collectively earned and distributed. The incremental day-of revenue (both from football and from non-football events) is predictable and diversified. Sucking at football doesn't lose Mara much if any money.
I think Mara operates out of a very loyal, empathetic, and earnest ethos. When I look back at his failures, the root cause is often sticking with a guy he likes, or guys that have had past success for too long.
It's still the smartest thing I've ever read on BBI, and I can't remember who posted it: The Maras want to win, but they don't try to win.
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
There's virtually no penalty for being bad at operating your team. The lion's share of the revenue is collectively earned and distributed. The incremental day-of revenue (both from football and from non-football events) is predictable and diversified. Sucking at football doesn't lose Mara much if any money.
I think Mara operates out of a very loyal, empathetic, and earnest ethos. When I look back at his failures, the root cause is often sticking with a guy he likes, or guys that have had past success for too long.
It's still the smartest thing I've ever read on BBI, and I can't remember who posted it: The Maras want to win, but they don't try to win.
Yup it's perfect description. In a system where there is no penalty for losing, Mara is the perfect owner.
If this were the EPL, the Giants would have been relegated a decade ago. They are the Wolves circa 2012.
Not smart to ask help of a then 75 year old man who MISSED AT EVERY CONSULTANT OPPURTUNITY HE HAD.
"On November 9, 2012, Accorsi was hired by the Carolina Panthers as a consultant after general manager Marty Hurney was fired.
On December 29, 2014, it was announced that Accorsi had been hired by the Chicago Bears as a consultant for their general manager search after Phil Emery was fired. That search resulted in the hiring of Ryan Pace.
On November 25, 2015, Accorsi was named a consultant for the Detroit Lions' search for a new general manager.
Accorsi was named as a special adviser to the team on January 10, 2016, after he assisted the Lions in their search for general manager Bob Quinn."
Great track record and a lazy pivot, Mara is one of the main reasons we are in this fucking dumpster fire.
He sided with Reese and allowed him to run the franchise into the ground over time. Worse, he allowed the franchise to move away from George Young's commitment to being strong at the line of scrimmage.
He has been swimming against the tide for years now.
He still has some time but is now over a decade since this franchise has been to a NFCCG. Over half of that time was with a future HOF QB which makes it much worse imv.
I would use Mara's own words to describe this regime. They have done everything possible to screw up their relationship with their fan base.
I would use Mara's own words to describe this regime. They have done everything possible to screw up their relationship with their fan base.
Great phrase. It sure beats, "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up. Year 6"
I would use Mara's own words to describe this regime. They have done everything possible to screw up their relationship with their fan base.
Great phrase. It sure beats, "We've done everything possible to screw this kid up. Year 6"
The next play in the book is gathering Schoen and Daboll mid-year, and concocting a plan to see what they have in Lock.
If Jones can summon some alligator tears after the benching, here's looking at year 7 baby!
I think its also fair to point out that the Giants have won 4 Super Bowls and only four other teams have won more (and two of those had the luxury of having GOAT type QBs.) Stated another way, while the Giants have won 4 SBs 12 of the 32 teams in the league have never won any. And its actually been half the league has not won a SB since the Giants won their first. So I'm guessing if you guys were talking to fans of Arizona, Atlanta, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Carolina, Tennessee, Houston and the LA Chargers they might think you were coming off a little whiney. (And they'd be right!!)
I don't know if people have noticed, but there's a certain pattern here. The Giants had a nifty championship run in the late 1950s and early 1960s, then went through a long drought affectionately known as the 70s; won a couple of SBs in the 80s which was followed by another downturn in the 90s; which was followed by a second SB run in the first decade of the century and yet another slump the following decade.
In the now almost 70 years that I have been following the NFL I have grown to be somewhat cynical about the whole business. Its a cyclical game in which so much of whether you win or lose in the NFL ultimately comes down to luck or at least whether you have good players or not.
However, if there are any lessons to be learned I think a couple of things stand out when one looks back at the Giants history, especially their winning phases. In the 50-60s they won with a great defence and a state of the art passing game; they won on the 1980s almost totally on the backs of one of the NFL's great defences; and they won the 7/11 titles with a good QB throwing to a couple of elite receiver corps as well as the NASCAR pass rush hitting on all cylinders.
And if I have any criticism of how the last decade unfolded its that we got away from that formula, especially regarding the defence.
But on the flip side, he took over in 2005, they won 2 Superbowls… both amazing post season runs and most likely a 3rd if not for Burress shooting himself in 2008. Do you take the 2 SB wins with all the bad years? Outside of the Patriots, Steelers and more recently the Chiefs, look at the other teams throughout the league the past 19 years… there’s not many I’d take over the Giants ownership.
Yes the lean years of the 70’s… Roselle having George Young take over was a low point… but 4 Super Bowl wins and 4 championships pre Super Bowl era.. they are still along with the Rooney’s one of the top ownerships in NFL history.
Its just been marred by the past decade…
Really, it was inept when Wellington was alive until Rozelle stepped in and forced them to hire Young. All the credit goes to Young and Parcells. Wellington had nothing to do with it
I view the Maras as arrogant men who look backward into their own past to inform decisions rather than out over the league landscape in search for best practices.
To this point I think their legacy is a terrible stadium, a poor football organization lacking in identity, and a frayed relationship with what was once a fiercely loyal and proud fanbase.
BINGO!!
In negotiation - can't hold his tongue to gush about a player entering a contract discussion even though any idiot could tell you that the way he was talking will cost you real dollars. Jones firing his agent was a clear sign of how much he knew he could milk Mara.
In marketing / customer relations - I've seen few misfires bigger than the Medium Pepsi incident. It is difficult to anger people by giving something away.
In management - he's created such a crappy culture of nepotism that it trickles down. Your star player Kayvon commenting on your terrible asset management vis a vis Saquon and Jones (it was so bad many in the league had things to say) not one but both of your coordinators wanted out. Not too long after Columbo had to be fired for dissent with superiors. That spanned two coaches...
In poise - good leaders don't get into fights with garbage cans. Or really inanimate objects of any kind, other than say a punching bag.
The limits of his incompetence know no bounds. You'd think he'd have the good sense to shrink his responsibilities and influence due to all of this but no! The king that can't lose his crown just loves to throw his incompetence in all of our faces.
He's worse than Dolan at this point. At least Dolan has learned some lessons, maybe John Mara should start a shitty band and leave us all alone.
I would use Mara's own words to describe this regime. They have done everything possible to screw up their relationship with their fan base.
Now that's good (and accurate).