Was a Dan Patrick quote on his show this morning, as they were discussing the Fields situation in Chicago.
I don't think there's one way to go about it, but I won't be disappointed if the Giants don't draft a quarterback at #6.
On SNY this morning some chatter about JS possibly looking at adding more defensive strength, which is great, and which if that occurs, might lead me to believe the Giants are pinpointing offense.
Some have said Penix at #6, but how can anyone here favor the idea of bringing aboard a quarterback whose last four seasons have ended with injuries (ACL tear as a true freshman; following year dislocated SC joint in his non-throwing shoulder; re-tear of the ACL; next season, dislocated joint in throwing shoulder). That was 2018 to 2021. I don't need to remind you what year THIS is.
Another constantly yammered about is JJ McCarthy, who just a couple months ago was the SEVENTH quarterback in some ratings and the 99th-ranked player overall. Guy played in a run-first offense and would require an instant trip to the local TV store.
Caleb Williams, Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels will very likely be off the board by the time the Giants draft at #6 (I have a hard time seeing this team, which has made moves but still needs a bunch) packaging picks in a solid draft year).
I don't have an answer at this moment at quarterback, but still, with the WR talent available in the first round, I can't see the Giants losing if they drafted one of the top 3 talked about non-stop here lately.
If the Giants grab a QB in this draft, I hope it's Spencer Rattler. From the things I read and see, he COULD be available in the third round, but after the Giants take the best available OG/C/DB in the second, I wouldn't hate seeing them try to move back up into the second to get Rattler.
Imagine this first-three picks for NYG:
* At 6 the Giants take 6-3, 215-pound Rome Adunze
* At 47 the Giants draft OG Graham Barton (first guard drafted - maybe? I mean so many OTs up top in this draft).
* Then spit-balling, the Giants move to 58 and they give GB the 70th pick (moves them down 12 spots in the 3rd) and the 183rd pick (in the 6th) and draft Spencer Rattler.
There ya go! :)
They're getting older and the injuries will take their toll on their physical style of offense.
Without the QB, they're running out of time fast.
Some of you are going to be surprised.
Whichever way they go, I think most of us will know Shanahan/Lynch have made an honest assessment of the circumstances. Because that appears to be their biggest strength.
They might get it wrong, but they will quickly cut their losses and move on.
And this is a tribute to Ed York for his willingness to hand over the football operations to football experts.
Great, great story. But, despite his IQ there are limits to his ability to put them over the top.
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We need a new era ASAP.
So, you believe a rookie qb, playing behind the Giants oline, will be better than Jones?
We just saw an UDFA rookie do it last year so yes.
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In comment 16440151 Bold Ruler said:
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We need a new era ASAP.
So, you believe a rookie qb, playing behind the Giants oline, will be better than Jones?
We just saw an UDFA rookie do it last year so yes.
Let’s be realistic. He was not better. He played with a much better line than what jones had. Pugh was a massive upgrade and changed the line dynamic. Plus the defense is the reason we won games outside of GB. Jones played with a guard playing tackle in Euzudu and Neal who was awful. Phillips and Pugh were massive upgrades. Mckethan Was benched as well. The line they put up infront of jones was disgraceful on an nfl field. I’m not a jones defender and I’d like to move on as well but let’s be realistic. It isn’t apples to apples.
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Rattler stinks.
Did you see a lot of SC games this year? Guy completed close to 70 percent of his passes with garbage around him on the O line and skill spots. I suspect most people remember when, after his freshman year, he was one of the top rated QBs in the country and bombed as a sophomore.
There are reasons I'm not a fan, but he doesn't stink. He's better than DeVito and I wouldn't be shocked at all if the Giants take him. They spent time with him at the Senior Bowl and combine.
Great, great story. But, despite his IQ there are limits to his ability to put them over the top.
I agree with every word.
But he's in a growing line of QBs who just can't beat the QB from Planet Savant - Mahomes.
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or you're able to maneuver for it.
Rattler stinks.
Did you see a lot of SC games this year? Guy completed close to 70 percent of his passes with garbage around him on the O line and skill spots. I suspect most people remember when, after his freshman year, he was one of the top rated QBs in the country and bombed as a sophomore.
There are reasons I'm not a fan, but he doesn't stink. He's better than DeVito and I wouldn't be shocked at all if the Giants take him. They spent time with him at the Senior Bowl and combine.
I want Rattler badly. Hes insanely talented. If he was 6-3 he’d be the second QB off the board. I’ve been talking about him for months. Round 3 he’s def worth it and I’d even trade back into round 2 to secure him. He’s built like Baker. He prob has the second best arm in the class. He has a quick release. If we build out this roster grab Rome round 1. A lineman round 2. He can execute any offense. He’s mobile and he has great feet within the pocket and maneuverability. I’ve spoken about his resume. It’s impressive all the adversity he has overcome to be a success in college. He’s being slept on by the media. I think pro scouts love him.
I still believe in bringing them in with a good OL and running game and advancing off of that as they develop.
The further along you are in building that type of team the better but it should not prevent you from drafting a QB if those elements are not already in place imv.
Dallas with Prescott is a great example. TC with Eli when he was drafted. Philly has done a good job with this.
Rattler stinks.
I agree you can build the team first and then get the QB or get the QB and then build the team, but this is correct. You have to get a QB when you have the chance. It isn't like we could take Nabers and fix the OL, then find a Gem of a receiving TE and stud RB in the draft. Next year we win to many games and can't get a top QB. We passed on this opportunity in 2018 and 2020. We can't do it again this year unless 4 QBs go before us.
the whole point of a young QB is to have a cost controlled asset at the most important position.
if you have the premium QB but have no draft capital to put around him, you're dooming yourself.
in an ideal world, you stockpile assets so that you can complement your maturing QB with young assets/premium picks at WR, OL, DL, CB, etc.
TLDR: I hate the idea of trading a kings ransom to move up two spots to take the 3rd or 4th best QB in the draft.
Wow, a sane well thougth out and lucid opinion.... BBI listen up cause this team is not ready yet to put a potential QB4 in this offense.
Build the team, get the qb later
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We need a new era ASAP.
So, you believe a rookie qb, playing behind the Giants oline, will be better than Jones?
Absolutely, a UDRF was better just last season
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In comment 16440151 Bold Ruler said:
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We need a new era ASAP.
So, you believe a rookie qb, playing behind the Giants oline, will be better than Jones?
Absolutely, a UDRF was better just last season
Oooops, UDFA
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is to mortgage your future draft capital for a QB with a team that isn't ready.
the whole point of a young QB is to have a cost controlled asset at the most important position.
if you have the premium QB but have no draft capital to put around him, you're dooming yourself.
in an ideal world, you stockpile assets so that you can complement your maturing QB with young assets/premium picks at WR, OL, DL, CB, etc.
TLDR: I hate the idea of trading a kings ransom to move up two spots to take the 3rd or 4th best QB in the draft.
Wow, a sane well thougth out and lucid opinion.... BBI listen up cause this team is not ready yet to put a potential QB4 in this offense.
Build the team, get the qb later
I like it... if they agree with you they are lucid and sane. I assume this means if you disagree you are not. You get the team and they start to be average because Nabers gets you some TDs and you pick 18-20 every year... how you getting that QB now? You get one when you can get one.
The good news is the Giants look to be making a concerted effort on the OL this offseason. Hopefully they do the same with the receiving group, starting with their 1st round pick in the draft. So far there has been no effort in free agency in this regard. It's quite possibly the worst receiving group in the league. Schoen's hands were very much cap tied from improving the receiving group or OL last offseason. The best he was able to do was get an aging, overrated, oft-injured tight end.
Getting the OL in solid shape and addressing the receiving group will pave the way to start getting a lot of answers and clarity on the QB position and the offense as a whole. If the supporting cast is good, it's on Jones to deliver. If he does, he stays. If he doesn't, he's gone and the team can comfortably go all in on a solution. If the supporting cast is garbage again, they are looking at a full rebuild on that side of the football. One more season to get the answers needed to make a sound decision.
Draft one of the very highly rated WRs at #6. Maybe even draft another later on, along with another OG. Get answers next season. This seems really simple to me.
The good news is the Giants look to be making a concerted effort on the OL this offseason. Hopefully they do the same with the receiving group, starting with their 1st round pick in the draft. So far there has been no effort in free agency in this regard. It's quite possibly the worst receiving group in the league. Schoen's hands were very much cap tied from improving the receiving group or OL last offseason. The best he was able to do was get an aging, overrated, oft-injured tight end.
Getting the OL in solid shape and addressing the receiving group will pave the way to start getting a lot of answers and clarity on the QB position and the offense as a whole. If the supporting cast is good, it's on Jones to deliver. If he does, he stays. If he doesn't, he's gone and the team can comfortably go all in on a solution. If the supporting cast is garbage again, they are looking at a full rebuild on that side of the football. One more season to get the answers needed to make a sound decision.
Draft one of the very highly rated WRs at #6. Maybe even draft another later on, along with another OG. Get answers next season. This seems really simple to me.
Just off the top of my head the Patriots, Panthers, Cardinals, Broncos, Jaguars, and Chargers all have WR corps equal to or worse than ours (most worse). So yeah, it's not a top notch group, but it's bottom 10 not worst in the league.
Second, what if we have middle of the pack picks for the foreseeable future after this year due to a good defense and better o line? How will we ever be within reach of a truly promising QB prospect? This line of thinking is incredibly flawed. Do you want to go from bad to mediocre, or make the best moves possible to go from bad to great? That's the question. Your approach will lead to mediocrity imo, taking a swing at a qb when you're within reach in a very strong QB draft gives us a real swing at greatness. Not taking that chance would be a mistake Schoen n Co can ill-afford to make.
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is to mortgage your future draft capital for a QB with a team that isn't ready.
the whole point of a young QB is to have a cost controlled asset at the most important position.
if you have the premium QB but have no draft capital to put around him, you're dooming yourself.
in an ideal world, you stockpile assets so that you can complement your maturing QB with young assets/premium picks at WR, OL, DL, CB, etc.
TLDR: I hate the idea of trading a kings ransom to move up two spots to take the 3rd or 4th best QB in the draft.
Wow, a sane well thougth out and lucid opinion.... BBI listen up cause this team is not ready yet to put a potential QB4 in this offense.
Build the team, get the qb later
Were the Texans and Bengals ready?
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is to mortgage your future draft capital for a QB with a team that isn't ready.
the whole point of a young QB is to have a cost controlled asset at the most important position.
if you have the premium QB but have no draft capital to put around him, you're dooming yourself.
in an ideal world, you stockpile assets so that you can complement your maturing QB with young assets/premium picks at WR, OL, DL, CB, etc.
TLDR: I hate the idea of trading a kings ransom to move up two spots to take the 3rd or 4th best QB in the draft.
Wow, a sane well thougth out and lucid opinion.... BBI listen up cause this team is not ready yet to put a potential QB4 in this offense.
Build the team, get the qb later
These are two arguments represented as one.
The argument is against trading away picks when the team isn’t ready when reality the issue seems to be trading up for what’s though to not be the best prospect. Both opinions are fine but the are very very different.
Additionally, I’m not sure why this is such an amazing opinion to have. It doesn’t include all the inherent risks, but applies risks to moving up. That’s a common theme with the never trade up crowd.
Those who support SF model and support Jones who is paid 40+ mil while Purdy earns under a mil a year
Those who support a SF model and didn’t support signed Saquon while the 49ers pay McCaffrey 16 mil per year
Those who support a SF model and those who are against QB moves like trading up (Trey Lance) and moving on from QBs who had playoff success ( Jimmy G)
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or you're able to maneuver for it.
Rattler stinks.
+1. Rattler is absolutely awful. If he is the plan, God help us.
Help me understand why Rattler stinks.
I like him and his show? LOL
On a more related topic, either you have a QB or you are ready/willing to flip every resource towards getting one.
I would expect Banks, Dex and Thibs to be on the block towards acquiring one if they can't get one this year.
However, I also think he was not worthy of the #6 pick and still stinks. This may be impacted by the first point, but it is also true on its own. Jones is not a very good QB. I think in the right situation he could be a decent NFL QB. But, that is his ceiling. A #6 pick, even under these circumstances, should have shown a lot more.
This year, I do think they already improved their OL. It isn't great, but it should no longer be in the bottom 1/3 of the league. I am counting on the new OGs providing some stability and enable both JMS and Neal to progress this year.
I expect a new from either round 1 or round 2. I like what they have in Robinson, a budding star, and Hyatt. I also think Burns will have a big impact on the D by creating 2 outside pass rushers to worry about. At least 1 of KT, Lawrence, or Burnes should have a monster year.
So, our QB, regardless of who, would be on a better team with a more functional offense. IT is up to them to take advantage. If it's a rookie, I expect some growing pains. But, I also think all of the top 6 guys are better than Jones right now. If it's Jones (personally I hope not), this HAS TO be his last year to show us something and that something has to be a HELL of a lot more than what we got in 2022. If hat to actually earn the $40+M AAV of his deal.
Have you seen him play? He is mobile. He can scramble enough. He isn’t Lamar Jackson but he can scramble and get yards. He is very quick within the pocket with excellent feet and balance. Keeps a wide base and snaps the ball with a quick release and excellent velocity. He is over 6 feet at 220lbs. Hes not small he’s short. People need to get away from these scores and just watch the film. He can move and it’s all over his game tapes. Watcu him the last 2 years at SC behind a dog shit line. Also, and a huge attribute that he has is he can hang in the pocket and take shots to his chin. He is not afraid of contact. To me that is a huge positive that many qbs in college show because they don’t have to. You find that out or don’t when it’s already too late
Rattler stinks.
I don't get the obsession with Rattler. He was trash at Oklahoma and he went to South Carolina and was trash his first year. Got a bit better in his 2nd year at South Carolina. But he mostly played decent against shit teams and played like shit against decent teams.
However, I also think he was not worthy of the #6 pick and still stinks. This may be impacted by the first point, but it is also true on its own. Jones is not a very good QB. I think in the right situation he could be a decent NFL QB. But, that is his ceiling. A #6 pick, even under these circumstances, should have shown a lot more.
This year, I do think they already improved their OL. It isn't great, but it should no longer be in the bottom 1/3 of the league. I am counting on the new OGs providing some stability and enable both JMS and Neal to progress this year.
I expect a new from either round 1 or round 2. I like what they have in Robinson, a budding star, and Hyatt. I also think Burns will have a big impact on the D by creating 2 outside pass rushers to worry about. At least 1 of KT, Lawrence, or Burnes should have a monster year.
So, our QB, regardless of who, would be on a better team with a more functional offense. IT is up to them to take advantage. If it's a rookie, I expect some growing pains. But, I also think all of the top 6 guys are better than Jones right now. If it's Jones (personally I hope not), this HAS TO be his last year to show us something and that something has to be a HELL of a lot more than what we got in 2022. If hat to actually earn the $40+M AAV of his deal.
Agreed with all your points. I'd also add that a rookie like JJM or Mayr will not start until ready mechanically imo they will hone their game for the first half a season to a season which will give us another offseason to get the roster primed for the rookie to take over fully in 2025 imo.
Those are awful quarterbacks. If that happens, at a minimum Daboll will be looking for a job after they only win 6 games.
Rinse and Repeat. Status quo at Jints Central.
Can't believe this many people still want Jones on the team. DJD (Daniel Jones Disciples).
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He had one of the worst RAS scores ever for a QB. He's as statue as they come at "maybe" 6 ft. No thanks!!
Have you seen him play? He is mobile. He can scramble enough. He isn’t Lamar Jackson but he can scramble and get yards. He is very quick within the pocket with excellent feet and balance. Keeps a wide base and snaps the ball with a quick release and excellent velocity. He is over 6 feet at 220lbs. Hes not small he’s short. People need to get away from these scores and just watch the film. He can move and it’s all over his game tapes. Watcu him the last 2 years at SC behind a dog shit line. Also, and a huge attribute that he has is he can hang in the pocket and take shots to his chin. He is not afraid of contact. To me that is a huge positive that many qbs in college show because they don’t have to. You find that out or don’t when it’s already too late
I think Rattler has an extremely low chance to be a franchise qb. We have other holes to fill in rd3 we could get a wr or rb with extremely high potential for instance.
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or you're able to maneuver for it.
Rattler stinks.
I don't get the obsession with Rattler. He was trash at Oklahoma and he went to South Carolina and was trash his first year. Got a bit better in his 2nd year at South Carolina. But he mostly played decent against shit teams and played like shit against decent teams.
You don’t need to get it. Nobody’s saying he should go top 10. If your asking me JJ at 6 or rattler round 3 it’s a no brainer. Plus based off what you said your somewhat clueless how scouting works.
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In comment 16440146 JonC said:
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or you're able to maneuver for it.
Rattler stinks.
I don't get the obsession with Rattler. He was trash at Oklahoma and he went to South Carolina and was trash his first year. Got a bit better in his 2nd year at South Carolina. But he mostly played decent against shit teams and played like shit against decent teams.
You don’t need to get it. Nobody’s saying he should go top 10. If your asking me JJ at 6 or rattler round 3 it’s a no brainer. Plus based off what you said your somewhat clueless how scouting works.
I don't even think JJM and Rattler are in the same universe in terms of their play, but that's just me. I know you don't like JJM, so there's no point in debating it. Just my 2 cents.
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
How does one get a QB if you've hit this goal of building a team that can just plug in a QB? You will not be drafting high enough.
I'm not suggesting just fill in the position with a Purdy. That is not a franchise QB. That is a system propping up a guy.
I wouldn't touch Rattler. He is a head case and isn't that good. If I am taking a chance on a lower QB I take Joe Milton and see if Dabs can coach him up.
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In comment 16440152 LittleBlue said:
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is to mortgage your future draft capital for a QB with a team that isn't ready.
the whole point of a young QB is to have a cost controlled asset at the most important position.
if you have the premium QB but have no draft capital to put around him, you're dooming yourself.
in an ideal world, you stockpile assets so that you can complement your maturing QB with young assets/premium picks at WR, OL, DL, CB, etc.
TLDR: I hate the idea of trading a kings ransom to move up two spots to take the 3rd or 4th best QB in the draft.
Wow, a sane well thougth out and lucid opinion.... BBI listen up cause this team is not ready yet to put a potential QB4 in this offense.
Build the team, get the qb later
Were the Texans and Bengals ready?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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In comment 16440152 LittleBlue said:
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is to mortgage your future draft capital for a QB with a team that isn't ready.
the whole point of a young QB is to have a cost controlled asset at the most important position.
if you have the premium QB but have no draft capital to put around him, you're dooming yourself.
in an ideal world, you stockpile assets so that you can complement your maturing QB with young assets/premium picks at WR, OL, DL, CB, etc.
TLDR: I hate the idea of trading a kings ransom to move up two spots to take the 3rd or 4th best QB in the draft.
Wow, a sane well thougth out and lucid opinion.... BBI listen up cause this team is not ready yet to put a potential QB4 in this offense.
Build the team, get the qb later
Were the Texans and Bengals ready?
Add the 04 Giants to this. They had a QB 3 years removed from a super bowl appearance on the roster at the time.
Bad OL, why draft a QB?
You do it because 'special' at that position matters a lot more than anything else on the field.
I'd take Ratter at the bottom of the second or at #70. He reminds me of Baker Mayfield.
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In comment 16440150 JonC said:
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they've got everything but the QB.
Now, how do they get the QB?
Yeah, but they did get to the SB with Purdy, and only lost because they got beaten by a future Hall of Famer. They also traded a ton to move up for Trey Lance, which was a total failure.
Only a HoF has beaten that HoFer in the big game. Fight fire with the fire. How many of the 58 championships have been won by a non-great QB ... Purdy isn't a great one either.
Here is a list of all the SB-winning QBs. Plenty of those who won it once were not great.
Link - ( New Window )
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Rattler being brought.
I wouldn't touch Rattler. He is a head case and isn't that good. If I am taking a chance on a lower QB I take Joe Milton and see if Dabs can coach him up.
Lmao this is my exact point regarding Rattler. He was a head case and ful of himself. He’s been in the spotlight since he’s 16. The fame went to his head. He was humbled lost his job to Caleb. Transferred and built up his reputation and was humbled. He has faced a ton of adversity and was named team captain 2 years in a row at SC. He is not the same kid he was. This is my point about overcoming obstacles and seeing the light. He is known as a gym rat and hard worker. If we are lucky enough to grab him this board will see why. He has a ton of college starts. He he has all the tools. You build a decent line grab Rome round 1 and you can have a legit offense with a cost controlled QB.
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In comment 16440424 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Rattler being brought.
I wouldn't touch Rattler. He is a head case and isn't that good. If I am taking a chance on a lower QB I take Joe Milton and see if Dabs can coach him up.
Lmao this is my exact point regarding Rattler. He was a head case and ful of himself. He’s been in the spotlight since he’s 16. The fame went to his head. He was humbled lost his job to Caleb. Transferred and built up his reputation and was humbled. He has faced a ton of adversity and was named team captain 2 years in a row at SC. He is not the same kid he was. This is my point about overcoming obstacles and seeing the light. He is known as a gym rat and hard worker. If we are lucky enough to grab him this board will see why. He has a ton of college starts. He he has all the tools. You build a decent line grab Rome round 1 and you can have a legit offense with a cost controlled QB.
He plays an out of control style of football and doesn't have the mind to be a franchise qb imo.
Talented, but he hasn't been the same since Caleb took his job in Norman. Maybe the pressure of the Heisman wore on him. Could have been immaturity or a warning sign.
He did look better at SC, but he had moments where he couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. He looked good last year against Clemson and played a good half this year against Georgia.
I don't like his size and would not trust him without some serious rewiring...
Let’s be realistic. He was not better. He played with a much better line than what jones had. Pugh was a massive upgrade and changed the line dynamic. Plus the defense is the reason we won games outside of GB. Jones played with a guard playing tackle in Euzudu and Neal who was awful. Phillips and Pugh were massive upgrades. Mckethan Was benched as well. The line they put up infront of jones was disgraceful on an nfl field. I’m not a jones defender and I’d like to move on as well but let’s be realistic. It isn’t apples to apples.
Pugh was a "massive" upgrade? With the exception of his first game at LG he was absolutely dreadful.
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Let’s be realistic. He was not better. He played with a much better line than what jones had. Pugh was a massive upgrade and changed the line dynamic. Plus the defense is the reason we won games outside of GB. Jones played with a guard playing tackle in Euzudu and Neal who was awful. Phillips and Pugh were massive upgrades. Mckethan Was benched as well. The line they put up infront of jones was disgraceful on an nfl field. I’m not a jones defender and I’d like to move on as well but let’s be realistic. It isn’t apples to apples.
Pugh was a "massive" upgrade? With the exception of his first game at LG he was absolutely dreadful.
He was a massive upgrade at left tackle to euzudu. I think you don’t remember correctly and Phillips over neal was also a big upgrade. The line was much improved after Josh went down and Neal went out. That’s a fact. Mckethan lol come on dude it’s not debatable. The line was better.