*If* Jones is Cut, Worst Contract in NFL History?

Another Jones thread

D Watson’s contract is trending to better that worst contract mark by a mile.

Russell Wilson?
Golloday?
Aaron Rodgers (Jets) so far?

"$242.6 million
The Broncos signed Wilson to a five-year, $242.6 million deal after his arrival and will take an $85 million hit in dead money over the next two seasons because of the release.
Mar 4, 2024" ESPN

but I'm leaning Wilson because Denver is paying him a gigantic amount of money so he can potentially win big in the AFC with another team basically for free. That dynamic is unbelievable to me.

And the way Pittsburgh operates, you really have to give Tomlin the benefit of the doubt to make it work.

In NY history with Ellsbury

Wilson will have earned 85M from the Broncos, and end with a record of 11-19. 4.25M per start, 7.7M per win. I think Jones is worse.

the only thing that should be cut is your thread.

But for return on the dollar the Jones deal is way up there. 1-5 record and 32nd ranked QB play is just abysmal.

In comment 16440926 fish3321 said:

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the only thing that should be cut is your thread.

Run along little baby.

Russell is a different cap era, but he earned 36.3M, and had a 7-18 record.

In comment 16440924 christian said:

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Wilson will have earned 85M from the Broncos, and end with a record of 11-19. 4.25M per start, 7.7M per win. I think Jones is worse.

God help you, you are just stupid. I never cared for your shitty opinions but this seals it. You're a fucking moron.

In comment 16440932 Joey in VA said:

Quote:

In comment 16440924 christian said: Quote: Wilson will have earned 85M from the Broncos, and end with a record of 11-19. 4.25M per start, 7.7M per win. I think Jones is worse. God help you, you are just stupid. I never cared for your shitty opinions but this seals it. You're a fucking moron.

Do you disagree with the math?

We have enough Jones talk without this adding to it.

So far the deal looks terrible. There are others mentioned above that were worse, yes hard to believe but they were

the 2009 salary cap was 123 million. haynesworth got 41m guaranteed on a 7x100m (14m per year). washington paid him about 35m for 12 starts over 2 years at a practical AAV of 17m, then traded him for a 5th round pick (which went on to be a nothing player who played 5 games).

era adjust that contract to today's cap which is basically 2x, and you get a $82m gtd and making almost $35m per year in those first 2 years for a non-qb bust.

and it would have been more if they hadnt suspended him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team.

Quote:

Citing a litany of acts that essentially add up to season-long insubordination, the Redskins suspended Haynesworth for "conduct detrimental to the club" and told him he's not welcome for the team's final four games -- and making it extremely unlikely he will play for the club again. "Despite the club's numerous attempts to persuade Albert Haynesworth to abide by the terms of his contract, he has repeatedly refused to cooperate with our coaching staff in a variety of ways over an extended period of time," Shanahan said in statement released by the team. "Among other things, he has consistently indicated to our defensive coaches that he refuses to play in our base defense or on first-down or second-down nickel situations. He has also refused to follow the instructions of our coaches both during weekly practices and during actual games as well. "Yesterday, when Albert was at Redskin Park, he told our general manager Bruce Allen that he [Haynesworth] would no longer speak with me. Although suspending any player is not a decision that a head coach enters into lightly, I believe the situation has reached the point where the club clearly has no alternative."

But it's hard to think of another that was so obviously an enormous mistake.

I thought it would be a long time before the Giants did something as blatantly foolish in the moment as drafting Barkley. It turns out I didn't have to wait long.

In comment 16440941 Go Terps said:

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But it's hard to think of another that was so obviously an enormous mistake. I thought it would be a long time before the Giants did something as blatantly foolish in the moment as drafting Barkley. It turns out I didn't have to wait long.

This is what bothers me--paying a QB that has been one of the worst QBs three consecutive years running in terms of throwing yards and touchdowns had a super low likelihood of working out.

The decision making process was idiotic.

In comment 16440929 christian said:

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In comment 16440926 fish3321 said: Quote: the only thing that should be cut is your thread. Run along little baby.

He’s right though. Jones will, at least, be on the roster this year and most likely start several games.

Galloway ? Solder ?

In comment 16440945 BrettNYG10 said:

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In comment 16440941 Go Terps said: Quote: But it's hard to think of another that was so obviously an enormous mistake. I thought it would be a long time before the Giants did something as blatantly foolish in the moment as drafting Barkley. It turns out I didn't have to wait long. This is what bothers me--paying a QB that has been one of the worst QBs three consecutive years running in terms of throwing yards and touchdowns had a super low likelihood of working out. The decision making process was idiotic.

It was indefensibly stupid, which leads me to believe it was ownership. But Schoen has to eat that too, because he failed to manage the fools above him.

Golladay was paid 36M for 18 starts, Solder was paid 42.4M for 38 starts.

I remember the endless complaints about the Cost of getting Williams. We gave up a third at the same time that Baltimore gave up a top ten pick for Forest Bruckner. Still the griping grew in volume. We use him for years and then get a no.2 for him. And the mob quiets, searching no doubt for something they can be wrong on again.'
This remains a unique place, where being wrong empowers instead of shaming.
Prescott has been the beneficiary of the greatest supporting cast (on offense) of modern times. With greater time in the league and inspite of the best offensive line of modern times, he has the same no. of playoff wins as Jones. He doens't have the same arm talent and accuracy that jones has. He makes 60 million per year or 1/2 again as much as Jones.
Jones contract is awful...awful until you put it in contact. But there's still time, if they hustle they can still draft Josh Rosen over Saquon....like so many guru's here wanted.
Awful, I always reference a line from...Walden Pond.... most men lives of quiet desperation" they come here, frustrated and seeking to show how smart they REALLY are. I know more from one hour a week curled up on my couch than these full timers making millions per year know...
I always see sad little men

Though he was paid in 2009, Albert Haynesworth got paid 7 years, over $100M and was gone from the contract midway in his second year. Fought with his coach and quit on his team during plays. Far worse.

Then there's the Russell Wilson compensation AND pay. Same for Deshaun Watson's trade and pay. The Browns are contenders with a bad QB.

The worst QB in FA was Brock Osweiler. We remember the Texans giving away a 2nd just to off load the contract he was given? His contract AAV at the time was nearly on the level of Eli Manning's - one of the highest in the league.

behind one of the most incredibly inept offensive lines in league history. The quarterbacks got sacked 5 times a game!

Based on that, the dollars per game number being thrown out is a flawed argument. It would be diff story if he was benched after 6 games.

In comment 16440955 christian said:

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Golladay was paid 36M for 18 starts, Solder was paid 42.4M for 38 starts.

Do you pay for over the cap or Spotrac premium?

In comment 16440947 Four Aces said:

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In comment 16440929 christian said: Quote: In comment 16440926 fish3321 said: Quote: the only thing that should be cut is your thread. Run along little baby. He’s right though. Jones will, at least, be on the roster this year and most likely start several games.

Ya sure about that!

With the injury guarantee, I still believe that Jones has taken his last snap as Giant. Once he passes his physical, there is 0 reason to keep him on the team.

The post June 1 cut has the exact same cap ramifications as keeping on the team picking splinter from his ass. And god forbid, one of those splinters causes an infection and gets paid even more. Seriously though, even an injury in practice, or lifting weights can trigger that clause. The only way to safeguard the team from that injuy clause is to release him after he passes a physical.

Also, to answer the question, no. Aaron Rodgers is clearly worse since they got four plays out of him and now he's going to be vice president.

But more seriously, contracts should be analyzed along different lenses, but surplus value/deficiency is probably the most critical consideration. Jones, if done as a Giant, fares poorly here. But the other lens is alternatives and opportunity cost. Watson, who probably has an even worse value deficiency number, also is holding back a team otherwise capable of being a contender. Signing Cousins, trading for Rodgers (last season), going after Lamar (again, last season), etc. were off the table because of Watson.

Giants had no set of alternatives that robbed them of a title or even division title. Mayfield or whoever may have gotten them to the playoffs, but who cares. And Jones' deal doesn't hold them back from anything this off-season.

Going back in time look at what Matt Flynn got paid based off of a single game. The Redskins have a history of overpaying when they brought in Haynesworth and other “name” players.

If they keep him

and the Broncos still have $53M in dead cap money counting against the cap this year. Daniel Jones cap number this year is $47M, but the Giants FO still gave themselves a few "outs" to help manage his contract either by converting his base salary to signing bonus to spread the pain across next 3 seasons, designate him as post June 1 cut or suck it up this year and cut him in 2025.

The Rodgers, Watson and Wilson contracts may be larger financial hits, but all three of them were given to perennial pro bowl players and, in the case of Rodgers and Wilson, to two future HoFers. Overpayments for sure, but well EARNED at the time the contracts were awarded based on their collective bodies of work. And all three are still very much works in progress. My guess is that all three, barring injury, will have outstanding years in 2024.

The decision to make DJ the sixth highest paid player in the NFL this year, a guy who has won precisely five games in five years against winning teams, with a fairly chronic injury history, at a time when the franchise has been in the middle of a rebuild, is the most egregious display of managerial ineptitude in the history of the New York Giants.

And most likely, in the history of professional sports. There is really nothing that even comes close to comparing to it. Ellsbury? He was an elite player and two time World Series champion with the Red Sox, with one of the most productive years in recent baseball history in 2011, who fell off after a very good first year with the Yankees. Like Rodgers and Wilson, his body of work EARNED him the contract he got. No doubt a dumb contract in hindsight but a contract commensurate with his body of work at the time it was awarded. Same with Haynesworth. Two time ALL PRO player and Defensive Player of the Year in 2008 who again EARNED the contract he was given.

Inconvenient facts, not opinions.

In comment 16440924 christian said:

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Wilson will have earned 85M from the Broncos, and end with a record of 11-19. 4.25M per start, 7.7M per win. I think Jones is worse.

Don't see all the specifics of Wilson's deal but his guarantee was $120MM up to $160MM . He did not get less than 120 and as much as 160 depending on what the rest of the guarantee was (at least some injury so not all of it).

Plus they gave up a boatload of picks.

But, still really dumb. The Bucs benefitted from seeing how poorly Jones was handled.

Who were the Giants competing against? They could have let him test the market and given him a juiced up one year deal most likely.

Is it the worst contract of all time? I doubt that. I think the injuries help in making it not the worst contract, more just a massive overpay for a player that couldn't stay healthy. NYG was 1-3 when he got hurt during the Miami game. He played barely in LV and was clearly rusty.

Even removing my personal feelings of Jones, I have to admit NYG had a brutal schedule early on and Jones was without his left tackle for a lot of it. But, none of it matters. This year is the logical year to draft his replacement.

In comment 16440933 christian said:

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In comment 16440932 Joey in VA said: Quote: In comment 16440924 christian said: Quote: Wilson will have earned 85M from the Broncos, and end with a record of 11-19. 4.25M per start, 7.7M per win. I think Jones is worse. God help you, you are just stupid. I never cared for your shitty opinions but this seals it. You're a fucking moron. Do you disagree with the math?

Not only is your math wrong, you don't even have all of the numbers to execute the equation.

In comment 16440973 The Mike said:

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The Rodgers, Watson and Wilson contracts may be larger financial hits, but all three of them were given to perennial pro bowl players and, in the case of Rodgers and Wilson, to two future HoFers. Overpayments for sure, but well EARNED at the time the contracts were awarded based on their collective bodies of work. And all three are still very much works in progress. My guess is that all three, barring injury, will have outstanding years in 2024. The decision to make DJ the sixth highest paid player in the NFL this year, a guy who has won precisely five games in five years against winning teams, with a fairly chronic injury history, at a time when the franchise has been in the middle of a rebuild, is the most egregious display of managerial ineptitude in the history of the New York Giants. And most likely, in the history of professional sports. There is really nothing that even comes close to comparing to it. Ellsbury? He was an elite player and two time World Series champion with the Red Sox, with one of the most productive years in recent baseball history in 2011, who fell off after a very good first year with the Yankees. Like Rodgers and Wilson, his body of work EARNED him the contract he got. No doubt a dumb contract in hindsight but a contract commensurate with his body of work at the time it was awarded. Same with Haynesworth. Two time ALL PRO player and Defensive Player of the Year in 2008 who again EARNED the contract he was given. Inconvenient facts, not opinions.

This is correct. Overpaying a former champion or all pro is different than paying someone who wasn't a Pro Bowler in his BEST season and had various seasons that were horrible in their youth. Forget the team, Russel Wilson never looked a fraction as bad as Jones did EVER. College, pros, etc.

Context matters too. The fact that the owner was slobbering over this mediocre player and that player was so confident he could use this leverage that he fired his agent makes it even worse.

I have never seen anything like this in terms of the sheer amount a player who had shown so little got paid. The crazy thing about this is that the Mara's and a lot of people here clearly ignored the Eagles game data point. I could understand it at least a bit more if he played at least a decent game against the Eagles. Instead of him looking overmatched and flustered in the most important game of his career. Franchising him was in the realm understandable. Hell even a deal with MUCH easier out like Geno or Mayfield was in the realm of understandable.

The contract he got was a master class in horrible negotiation. It completely blew up the goodwill that anyone should have for the Mara's for hiring outside. Because this deal was mired in all of the worst management issues that we've seen of the Mara's embarrassing "leadership" the last 10 years. JS isn't making a lick of a difference or he's just as dumb as everyone else there. Honestly the former at least offers some hope...

the criteria for what makes a contract terrible. There are other factors to consider that impacted maximizing the value of Jones contract that had little to do with him. Then he was injured.

Albert Haynesworth is near the top. In his first season he not only was poor but he said he wouldn't play a second season in that system. He had a lot of attitude issues and was lazy on the field. It got so bad, Shanahan suspended him around midseason his second season. Then cut.

a lot of people outside of this community and a small group in it knew that unequivocally.

Again, Haynsworth was a risk but he was a DOMINANT player at times even against great competition. Dating back to college.

Jones was never dominant against good competition. That is the huge difference.

In comment 16440939 Eric on Li said:

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the 2009 salary cap was 123 million. haynesworth got 41m guaranteed on a 7x100m (14m per year). washington paid him about 35m for 12 starts over 2 years at a practical AAV of 17m, then traded him for a 5th round pick (which went on to be a nothing player who played 5 games). era adjust that contract to today's cap which is basically 2x, and you get a $82m gtd and making almost $35m per year in those first 2 years for a non-qb bust. and it would have been more if they hadnt suspended him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team. Quote: Citing a litany of acts that essentially add up to season-long insubordination, the Redskins suspended Haynesworth for "conduct detrimental to the club" and told him he's not welcome for the team's final four games -- and making it extremely unlikely he will play for the club again. "Despite the club's numerous attempts to persuade Albert Haynesworth to abide by the terms of his contract, he has repeatedly refused to cooperate with our coaching staff in a variety of ways over an extended period of time," Shanahan said in statement released by the team. "Among other things, he has consistently indicated to our defensive coaches that he refuses to play in our base defense or on first-down or second-down nickel situations. He has also refused to follow the instructions of our coaches both during weekly practices and during actual games as well. "Yesterday, when Albert was at Redskin Park, he told our general manager Bruce Allen that he [Haynesworth] would no longer speak with me. Although suspending any player is not a decision that a head coach enters into lightly, I believe the situation has reached the point where the club clearly has no alternative."

Yeah, to me Haynesworth was the worst. But DJ can easily be in the top 10....and that is bad.

These DJ threads

Don’t tell me that I don’t need to open them. Just seeing the subject lines of these stupid, repetitive, shit-stirring threads littered all over this forum is draining. The only thing on my BBI wish list is a filter mechanism.

...?

no.

In comment 16440991 exiled said:

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These DJ threads Don’t tell me that I don’t need to open them. Just seeing the subject lines of these stupid, repetitive, shit-stirring threads littered all over this forum is draining. The only thing on my BBI wish list is a filter mechanism.

So you do not have enough self control that you require a filter to stop you from clicking things and whining? That is a pretty sad thing you are outing yourself on...

Not even close…
If you can be out in 2 yrs it isn’t a debilitating contract.
It’s a mistake….

In comment 16440991 exiled said:

Quote:

These DJ threads Don’t tell me that I don’t need to open them. Just seeing the subject lines of these stupid, repetitive, shit-stirring threads littered all over this forum is draining. The only thing on my BBI wish list is a filter mechanism.

It's a tragedy the Lord deprived you of eyes, hands, and free will.

In comment 16440998 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 16440991 exiled said: Quote: These DJ threads Don’t tell me that I don’t need to open them. Just seeing the subject lines of these stupid, repetitive, shit-stirring threads littered all over this forum is draining. The only thing on my BBI wish list is a filter mechanism. It's a tragedy the Lord deprived you of eyes, hands, and free will.

Haha.

it is definitely in the running for worst ever.

superlatives are subjective so people can base worst on a lot of different variables, but the fact it's in the conversation is bad enough.

some of my friends during this past season were debating whose contract was worst all time, Jones or Watson, and none of them are Giants fans or Texans/Browns fans so I feel like the unbiased public considers it at worst "in the conversation"

with Giants fans you will get the usual bias so hard to gauge.

In comment 16440939 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

the 2009 salary cap was 123 million. haynesworth got 41m guaranteed on a 7x100m (14m per year). washington paid him about 35m for 12 starts over 2 years at a practical AAV of 17m, then traded him for a 5th round pick (which went on to be a nothing player who played 5 games). era adjust that contract to today's cap which is basically 2x, and you get a $82m gtd and making almost $35m per year in those first 2 years for a non-qb bust. and it would have been more if they hadnt suspended him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team. Quote: Citing a litany of acts that essentially add up to season-long insubordination, the Redskins suspended Haynesworth for "conduct detrimental to the club" and told him he's not welcome for the team's final four games -- and making it extremely unlikely he will play for the club again. "Despite the club's numerous attempts to persuade Albert Haynesworth to abide by the terms of his contract, he has repeatedly refused to cooperate with our coaching staff in a variety of ways over an extended period of time," Shanahan said in statement released by the team. "Among other things, he has consistently indicated to our defensive coaches that he refuses to play in our base defense or on first-down or second-down nickel situations. He has also refused to follow the instructions of our coaches both during weekly practices and during actual games as well. "Yesterday, when Albert was at Redskin Park, he told our general manager Bruce Allen that he [Haynesworth] would no longer speak with me. Although suspending any player is not a decision that a head coach enters into lightly, I believe the situation has reached the point where the club clearly has no alternative."

+1

But at least Haynesworth was considered a very good player and produced

a drafted player nearly sever his leg before ever playing a down for us? I'd say that was worse, mathematically, since we got zero production for the money.


point being, basing contract value on non availability due to injury is a fool's errand.

clause hanging over the team's head.

Then if the plan is to not play him, why not cut him and see if he can sign on with another team once he is released to play?

I can't see the Giants organization keeping him buried on the bench all season when he might be healthy enough to play.

how Jones lives rent-free in all of your heads. Every day a new post about Jones.

Get over it already. Schoen and Daboll screwed that up and will screw up when drafting another QB in the end. I don't trust those 2 at all.

Welcome to QB Hell.

This will be the first decade that we do not win a Super Bowl.