Last offseason, the decision was made by "the Giants" to retain both Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley. The team tried to get a deal done with both before the Franchise Tag deadline. No deal could be reached with Barkley. The Giants reached a last-minute deal with Jones that allowed the team to slap the Franchise Tag on Barkley.
When the dust settled, Barkley's non-exclusive Franchise equaled a 1-year, $10.091 commitment. However, the team restructured that deal in July to $11 million, including a $2 million signing bonus.
Which brings us to the point of this thread: Jones' 4-year, $160 million contract including a $36,000,000 signing bonus, $92,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $40,000,000.
2023 could not have gone worse for Jones. He suffered his second career neck injury in Week 5 and missed the next three games. When he returned in Week 9, he tore the ACL in his right knee, finishing his season. On top of all of that, Jones was 1-5 in games that he did start, finishing the year with just 909 passing yards, two touchdowns, and six interceptions. His injuries and performance issues now put into question his long-term tenure with the organization.
NFL owners are rich. Bad contracts are commonplace. But if I'm the owner of the Giants, I am asking some serious questions right now because just a year ago, I was asked to write a $100 million check to a player who may be on his way out in a year. The only way I'm not pissed at someone else is if I am the one pushed for a long-term deal for Jones.
The smarter decision during the 2023 offseason would have been to let Barkley walk in free agency and tag Jones. So my question is this? Who is chiefly responsible for making the decision on the Jones' contract?
Option #1: While Mara will provide his opinion, he completely defers to Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll on personnel issues. The decision to retain Jones with a huge contract is completely on them. And Mara and Tisch have every right to be really upset at this point, especially if the team is truly considering drafting another quarterback.
Option #2: All parties are equally responsible, Schoen and Daboll not only believed in Jones, but so did ownership and family members such as Tim McDonnell and Chris Mara. Schoen and Daboll don't have complete autonomy, but in this case it did not matter.
Option #3: Schoen and Mara had their doubts about Jones, but ownership/family pushed for a long-term commitment based on what ended up being fool's gold (the "legendary" Vikings playoff game).
The public will probably never know the truth, but it is an important question because someone screwed the pooch big time. The contract erased the cap gains the team made in 2022 and set back the rebuild by at least one year, and probably two. It was a colossal mistake. And who is largely responsible may determine how shaky the ground is around Schoen and Daboll.
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you were consistent in wanting to let jones test the market but even before he won a playoff game you expected him to have a market and get 100m.
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If Schoen is smart...
bw in dc : mute : 12/28/2022 12:30 pm : link
he lets Jones hit the open market. And maybe has a gentlemen's agreement with Team Jones for last look to match or counter.
If that happens, I think Miami moves on from Tua and invests in Jones. Probably 3 yrs/$100M.
just did a quick search and couldn't find the actual jones threads from march, but once carr signed jones price tag became very obvious and someone was going to pay it. neither schoen nor CAA are complete morons. every big deal gets done knowing what else is out there when a player is that close to the open market.
Okay, I was spitballing on Miami, but my hypothetical was $33 AAV versus $40. And only $100M v $160M, significantly below the what was actually paid.
you have been a jones hater since before his draft year when you said ryan finley was better and yet before derek carr set the market, and even before he won a playoff game, you priced him beyond the tag amount.
you dont think it's possible on the open market any 1 of the 31 other GMs liked him more than you?
you are an avowed fan of QBR, how do you think it's reasonable that on the open market a younger Jones would have been paid less than older players whom he had better QBRs than (among plenty of other metrics including turnover%, W/L record, playoff performance, etc)?
again i am not knocking your prediction, it was 3 months ahead of the actual market being set. just pointing out that even before that famed minnesota game everyone, including a long standing non-jones believer yourself, was projecting that he had played well enough to have a 9 figure FA market beyond the tag amount.
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In comment 16441657 TyreeHelmet said:
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Name a team that would have even approached the contract the Giants gave out. It wasn’t out there.
Again - pulling sh#t out of your ass. Not interested, nor will I try to speculate.
What I do know are the facts: An NFL re-signed him to a fair market deal. And contrary to your BS, NFL teams understand how to gauge a players value when their putting a deal together.
"Fair market deal" yet you can't name one team that would of realistically matched that contract. His true market value did not match the deal he got.
It's fine to admit they made a mistake on this contract. I will never understand the ardent defenders of Jones and his contract. Makes zero sense.
This is fucking hysterical. Your whole argument is based on the fact that I - as a fan - can’t name the offers he would’ve gotten if the Giants didn’t sign him? That the Giants somehow didn’t do their due diligence in putting an offer together?
You’re a fan talking out of your ass.
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In comment 16441800 mittenedman said:
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In comment 16441657 TyreeHelmet said:
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Name a team that would have even approached the contract the Giants gave out. It wasn’t out there.
Again - pulling sh#t out of your ass. Not interested, nor will I try to speculate.
What I do know are the facts: An NFL re-signed him to a fair market deal. And contrary to your BS, NFL teams understand how to gauge a players value when their putting a deal together.
"Fair market deal" yet you can't name one team that would of realistically matched that contract. His true market value did not match the deal he got.
It's fine to admit they made a mistake on this contract. I will never understand the ardent defenders of Jones and his contract. Makes zero sense.
This is fucking hysterical. Your whole argument is based on the fact that I - as a fan - can’t name the offers he would’ve gotten if the Giants didn’t sign him? That the Giants somehow didn’t do their due diligence in putting an offer together?
You’re a fan talking out of your ass.
You still can't name 1 other team that might have even given him that contract. His contract was not 'fair market"- not sure how thats debatable.
The Giants overpaid their own player and screwed up. Why is that so hard to admit as a fan?
Everyone is really overreacting to a bad month of football and a freak injury.
Yes, I'll say it again, you guys are overreacting. Lots of fans including myself were on board with the contract that basically guaranteed him 2 years to keep improving while they built the team. Tough to see into the future and know that he would be pressured or hit on basically every other snap and then would eventually tear his knee on a freak play.
Wait and see what happens with the draft and then go from there. But I imagine that most of BBI will probably freak out and talk about how bad Jones sucks for the next month, and then do the same thing for the next 6 months after that if we don't draft a QB in the first round. Which by the way we probably won't do.
Everyone is really overreacting to a bad month of football and a freak injury.
Will your opinion be different if it comes to light that his 2023 neck injury was related to his 2021 neck injury?
you have been a jones hater since before his draft year when you said ryan finley was better and yet before derek carr set the market, and even before he won a playoff game, you priced him beyond the tag amount.
you dont think it's possible on the open market any 1 of the 31 other GMs liked him more than you?
you are an avowed fan of QBR, how do you think it's reasonable that on the open market a younger Jones would have been paid less than older players whom he had better QBRs than (among plenty of other metrics including turnover%, W/L record, playoff performance, etc)?
again i am not knocking your prediction, it was 3 months ahead of the actual market being set. just pointing out that even before that famed minnesota game everyone, including a long standing non-jones believer yourself, was projecting that he had played well enough to have a 9 figure FA market beyond the tag amount.
Sure, a GM may have liked Jones more than me, but that doesn't mean that GM would have forked over the same contract Schoen did. I see a much narrower market than you.
Just as much as you think the market would have been ga-ga over Jones because he is younger. I think the market could just as easily have concluded Jones was coming off one decent year, and that didn't entitle him to the next big contract because he was next in line.
For example, Jones certainly didn't have a better resume than Carr, who set the market days prior. Carr was much more productive and predictable in almost every key metric over a longer period of time. Again, Jones had one decent year.
But I want to make sure we're on the same page here before we move on. Your position is Jones would have received a contract by one or more teams of 4/$160M, $82M guaranteed if he was allowed to test the market. Correct?
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In comment 16441844 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 16441800 mittenedman said:
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In comment 16441657 TyreeHelmet said:
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Name a team that would have even approached the contract the Giants gave out. It wasn’t out there.
Again - pulling sh#t out of your ass. Not interested, nor will I try to speculate.
What I do know are the facts: An NFL re-signed him to a fair market deal. And contrary to your BS, NFL teams understand how to gauge a players value when their putting a deal together.
"Fair market deal" yet you can't name one team that would of realistically matched that contract. His true market value did not match the deal he got.
It's fine to admit they made a mistake on this contract. I will never understand the ardent defenders of Jones and his contract. Makes zero sense.
This is fucking hysterical. Your whole argument is based on the fact that I - as a fan - can’t name the offers he would’ve gotten if the Giants didn’t sign him? That the Giants somehow didn’t do their due diligence in putting an offer together?
You’re a fan talking out of your ass.
You still can't name 1 other team that might have even given him that contract. His contract was not 'fair market"- not sure how thats debatable.
The Giants overpaid their own player and screwed up. Why is that so hard to admit as a fan?
The same reason it’s so hard to admit you’re talking out of your ass. And I’m calling out your bullshit. You have no idea what other teams were going to offer, and you have no proof Schoen didn’t do his due diligence constructing a fair market offer.
You’re just whining. The guy above put it best - quiet desperation.
The contract isn’t some unforgivable mistake - Jones got injured. That’s football. Regardless of what your position is we all end up in the same place. It’s time to move on. Put the pitchfork down, grow up & stop whining.
But I want to make sure we're on the same page here before we move on. Your position is Jones would have received a contract by one or more teams of 4/$160M, $82M guaranteed if he was allowed to test the market. Correct?
yes i expect that to be the case no different than i expect that had baker made it to FA this year he would have done as good or better as he did (same with geno last year). i think the market is what it is for all these guys and agents dont generally sign for less than they can get elsewhere, or else they dont sign.
I'd speculate that Daboll was probably the least enthusiastic of the group having specifically limited the decisions Jones had to make in the offense. Combined with Schoen famously not valuing the RB position, the decision was made to focus on a shorter term contract for Jones that would allow them to franchise Barkley.
Unfortunately, those plans were clear to everyone in the entire world, and Jones's reps used it to their advantage in negotiating a contract he couldn't have gotten anywhere else but got from the Giants because they were faced with the tag deadline.
+1
Eric on Li : 3/8/2023 7:09 pm : link
A+ for creativity, flexibility, no drama execution
solid B+/A for the deal itself
i think there was only a little bit of daylight for this contract to have been better but not been so overly favorable that it was worth signing over the tag. i think getting a 5th year would have been a positive, but id imagine the cost of getting was more expensive.
i think this is a really good deal for both sides, but perhaps a slightly better deal for jones than the nyg depending on the incentives because based on the PFT report im thinking the incentives are much more likely to pay out than the giants using the emergency chutes after year 2 or 3.
yes i expect that to be the case no different than i expect that had baker made it to FA this year he would have done as good or better as he did (same with geno last year). i think the market is what it is for all these guys and agents dont generally sign for less than they can get elsewhere, or else they dont sign.
In essence, your position is the "next in line" theory. And Jones did enough to be in that line.
My position is a GM would have been more prudent by wanting to see more. And structured a deal with less years, less AAV, and less guaranteed money.
BTW, I think the Bucs made a mistake with Baker, too, although they got a much better bargain for Baker than we got for Jones. Why do you think Team Baker signed for that team friendly deal?
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yes i expect that to be the case no different than i expect that had baker made it to FA this year he would have done as good or better as he did (same with geno last year). i think the market is what it is for all these guys and agents dont generally sign for less than they can get elsewhere, or else they dont sign.
In essence, your position is the "next in line" theory. And Jones did enough to be in that line.
My position is a GM would have been more prudent by wanting to see more. And structured a deal with less years, less AAV, and less guaranteed money.
BTW, I think the Bucs made a mistake with Baker, too, although they got a much better bargain for Baker than we got for Jones. Why do you think Team Baker signed for that team friendly deal?
i also dont love the baker deal so i would not call it team friendly.
remember baker was on the open market last year 3x within the last 12 months and obviously none of those prior tries were getting him 9 figs. It took Cleveland months to trade him, he got waived in Carolina, and then last year on the open market all he got was the 1 year deal in tampa.
he just got himself $40m fully guaranteed (50m total gtd) and kept himself in a situation with good receivers that he has already been able to succeed in. i think it is a mutually beneficial deal, which is why both sides were willing to agree to it. i didnt love the geno smith deal last year but that worked out fine for SEA, so i could see something similar working out here for tampa.
players who get tagged or threatened with tags almost always end up getting the equivalent of 2 tags guaranteed (or else they just dont extend).
That the Giants only effectively guaranteed two years, was better than I expected.
My overwhelming preference was a one year agreement.
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In comment 16441922 mittenedman said:
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In comment 16441844 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 16441800 mittenedman said:
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In comment 16441657 TyreeHelmet said:
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Name a team that would have even approached the contract the Giants gave out. It wasn’t out there.
Again - pulling sh#t out of your ass. Not interested, nor will I try to speculate.
What I do know are the facts: An NFL re-signed him to a fair market deal. And contrary to your BS, NFL teams understand how to gauge a players value when their putting a deal together.
"Fair market deal" yet you can't name one team that would of realistically matched that contract. His true market value did not match the deal he got.
It's fine to admit they made a mistake on this contract. I will never understand the ardent defenders of Jones and his contract. Makes zero sense.
This is fucking hysterical. Your whole argument is based on the fact that I - as a fan - can’t name the offers he would’ve gotten if the Giants didn’t sign him? That the Giants somehow didn’t do their due diligence in putting an offer together?
You’re a fan talking out of your ass.
You still can't name 1 other team that might have even given him that contract. His contract was not 'fair market"- not sure how thats debatable.
The Giants overpaid their own player and screwed up. Why is that so hard to admit as a fan?
The same reason it’s so hard to admit you’re talking out of your ass. And I’m calling out your bullshit. You have no idea what other teams were going to offer, and you have no proof Schoen didn’t do his due diligence constructing a fair market offer.
You’re just whining. The guy above put it best - quiet desperation.
The contract isn’t some unforgivable mistake - Jones got injured. That’s football. Regardless of what your position is we all end up in the same place. It’s time to move on. Put the pitchfork down, grow up & stop whining.
I am critiquing the teams most impactful and important personnel decision they have made in years. I provided reasons why I believe his market was limited and he wasn't getting that contract from another team.
You have provided zero reasons on how or why a team would have signed him to that contract. Fans are allowed to criticize teams moves- thats part of being a fan. That's not whining or holding up a pitchfork. It's not unforgiveable but its a major mistake that was avoidable and Schoen must correct. Again the full on defense of Jones and this contract is bizarre.
Injuries will play a part but the reason they will move on from Jones is due to his poor play. Don't get that twisted.
That the Giants only effectively guaranteed two years, was better than I expected.
My overwhelming preference was a one year agreement.
i expected the tag through most of the season and you might remember once the deal came out, i was surprised that they deflated jones' year 1 as much as they did while saying the tag was "worst case".
i took those things and the contract they gave him to mean they liked jones more than expected and would have probably caved on whatever else they needed to at the 11th hour to get him extended. he got about as much guaranteed out of the contract as i expected but the giants got less out of it with just the 2 option years.
all in all the deal tracked with the comps, as they usually do. if jones repeated 2022 the deal would look fine. it's tied for qb13 right now and after tua extends it will be qb14.
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In comment 16441566 UberAlias said:
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But let it go. One thread after another shitting on Jones and the contract. It gets old and depressing.
This isn't about Jones per se.
It's about who is calling the shots and how that impact the franchise moving forward.
Here is what I think. I do think Schoen and Daboll made the call. I think Jones did show some things in 2022. That the feeling of the staff was that Jones performed well even with mediocre wide receivers and Oline. The situation prevented them from opening up the offense but based on what they saw, more of that was on rest of offense than Jones himself. They referred back to Jones year as a rookie and convinced themselves that Jones had it in him to add the dimension of a downfield passing game, they just needed to improve in other areas.
Even in camp, it all looked great and optimism was high. But then came the Dallas game. Everything that could go wrong did, and in an instant it blew up in their faces. We all played sports, we know how it is --emotions matter and this team was shell shocked after that game with Dallas. It got even worse after Barkley went down, and the line was in disarray --they literally couldn't pick up a stunt early in the year if their life depended on it. What's more, Jones regressed. Mentally, he reverted back to Check down king.
Eventually the Oline settled, Barkly came back, and Tyrod didn't have the fear throwing down field and we saw how much better that was.
At this point, Jones is an injury waiting to happen. Last year was maybe not the best circumstances to evaluate him, but at this point it doesn't matter. The injuries alone are reason enough to move on, and Jones has never shown to be able to run the sort of offense Daboll has in mind.
So while I was never a Jones fan and never would have given him the contract they did, I can see how the thinking could have led the team to that conclusion.
1) We don't have the information they do in terms of what the play calls for, what gets discussed in the film room. Assuming as I believe the team signed off on the deal, which I believe they did, we have to accept that Jones must have come off much better given the information we don't have than he appears to fans.
2) All the circumstances around the disaster of week 1 and ensuing injuries are part of the story. It's like looking at the Eagles at the end of the year. They were a mess and no one wants to give NYG any credit for beating them. But at the same time --NYG was a similar mess early on in the year. IMO, it is hard to take all of that at face value and say this tells the full story.
So IMO, it is what it is. They fucked up and are ready to move on. They may not be able to recover from this. It looks like a disaster to me, so I try to ask the tough questions. It's easy to say, they suck at what they do and point fingers, or you can take a step back and ask --why is it that a smart football mind who has far more information to go by than us fans would make such a decision. The answers are either --Mara forced them, or, something like what I've outlined. My belief is the later, but that's just my opinion.
Then shit happened.
Schoen did great. We signed players and can draft a replacement high in the first round if we want. It will not cripple us even though the worst has happned I will not be unhappy with any combination of Daniel Jones, Drew, Lock, or any QB they draft in the first round, as long as the offensive line gels, and we add another playmaker at wide receiver.
If we can move up and get our guy, go if you have conviction, I am ok with sacrificing future picks, if I hit a home run at qb in the draft we can play with fake money like Philly to compensate for the lost picks. KEY is to only do that if you hit the home run at QB. If I can’t get my guy, I like Odunze. A high character wide out in the mold Larry Fitzgerald. Penix has. VERY high ceiling. Arm talent is elite. I would up to get him in the first after the wide out.
players who get tagged or threatened with tags almost always end up getting the equivalent of 2 tags guaranteed (or else they just dont extend).
I could have sworn you often say the next QB up for a contract will do better than the prior.
I recall you saying that once Herbert signs, then Burrow will get that plus X, and then the next QB will get Burrow plus X, etc. Thus, "next in line"...
Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.
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Tough to call something a "colossal mistake" after he played 6 games and was pressured at a historic rate for a month straight.
Everyone is really overreacting to a bad month of football and a freak injury.
Will your opinion be different if it comes to light that his 2023 neck injury was related to his 2021 neck injury?
Well, sure. I don’t see that happening. And he injured his neck in 2023 because he was hit on basically every throw he made except the Cardinals game. Look at the replays of the Dallas game. Shocked he made it out injury free in that one.
The OL was an abomination to the sport the first month of the year, again besides one half.
But he wasn't a rookie in '22. That was his fourth season. And let's face it...'22 is sure AF looking like an outlier, and that's in a season where he threw all of 15 TDs in 16 games. In the current NFL, that's nothing.
But he wasn't a rookie in '22. That was his fourth season. And let's face it...'22 is sure AF looking like an outlier, and that's in a season where he threw all of 15 TDs in 16 games. In the current NFL, that's nothing.
Lots of people look at Daniel Jones like he was an immaculate conception in 2022 and we should just collectively pretend the previous 4 years shouldn't count on his report card.
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my theory is free agents have agents who usually get their clients whatever the market value is. if in a negotiation a player's agent is getting threatened with a tag, as jones was last year, that sets them up to do well. they know they already have $32m guaranteed in their pocket when starting the negotiation.
players who get tagged or threatened with tags almost always end up getting the equivalent of 2 tags guaranteed (or else they just dont extend).
I could have sworn you often say the next QB up for a contract will do better than the prior.
I recall you saying that once Herbert signs, then Burrow will get that plus X, and then the next QB will get Burrow plus X, etc. Thus, "next in line"...
Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.
generally that's how the FA market works since the cap goes up every year, i was just confused by the name i guess.
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To some, it's like he was drafted in '22 & then '23 happened. If that was the case, sure...I could see throwing out '23 & being like, 'Well. It was a shitstorm.'
But he wasn't a rookie in '22. That was his fourth season. And let's face it...'22 is sure AF looking like an outlier, and that's in a season where he threw all of 15 TDs in 16 games. In the current NFL, that's nothing.
Lots of people look at Daniel Jones like he was an immaculate conception in 2022 and we should just collectively pretend the previous 4 years shouldn't count on his report card.
that's likely closer to how the current regime views him than any fan.
Everyone is really overreacting to a bad month of football and a freak injury.
Yes, I'll say it again, you guys are overreacting. Lots of fans including myself were on board with the contract that basically guaranteed him 2 years to keep improving while they built the team. Tough to see into the future and know that he would be pressured or hit on basically every other snap and then would eventually tear his knee on a freak play.
Wait and see what happens with the draft and then go from there. But I imagine that most of BBI will probably freak out and talk about how bad Jones sucks for the next month, and then do the same thing for the next 6 months after that if we don't draft a QB in the first round. Which by the way we probably won't do.
For the millionth time it’s not 6 games, is more than 3 years of bad football
Many of us.
I know Schoen and Daboll had tons of information we don’t.
They signed him.
Chew on that.
Imagine exceeding expectations in NY as a new HC and GM. He was worth more to NY than any other team. (of course) We have a reasonable out, the one we need and you are all still acting like it was a mistake. WHILE WE ARE ALL DISCUSSING DRAFTING A QB THIS YEAR. Any self awareness at all? You are asking way too much of them in that spot. They signed him, it sounds like the kid is done. I would tell my kid to quit there. Neck x2. I was done from there. We can be loyal and let him try if the doctors clear him as long as the replacement is here. I don’t think Jones plays again though.
They had an amazing opportunity after 2022 in which many of us knew it was an illusion.
After a very good season we won a playoff game - we could've dumped. If they couldn't see how perfect of an opportunity they had - then they are all to blame. They took on way too much risk.
Many of us.
I know Schoen and Daboll had tons of information we don’t.
They signed him.
Chew on that.
Imagine exceeding expectations in NY as a new HC and GM. He was worth more to NY than any other team. (of course) We have a reasonable out, the one we need and you are all still acting like it was a mistake. WHILE WE ARE ALL DISCUSSING DRAFTING A QB THIS YEAR. Any self awareness at all? You are asking way too much of them in that spot. They signed him, it sounds like the kid is done. I would tell my kid to quit there. Neck x2. I was done from there. We can be loyal and let him try if the doctors clear him as long as the replacement is here. I don’t think Jones plays again though.
If thye had a ton more information then it's obvious they are reading the wrong information. You can say DG had a ton more inormation too.
This is why enterprises fail.
The Giants have been failing the self-analysis test for over a decade now. Very frustrating to watch.
If we either did not make the playoffs of lost that game, I dont think we offer Jones that contract.
Ownership tasted the playoffs and wanted to keep it rolling. They thought all we needed to do was get Jones more weapons.
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When an organization screws up it's most important decision, unless there is some self-reflection not only on the decision, but the decision-making process, then the same type of mistake is likely to happen again.
This is why enterprises fail.
The Giants have been failing the self-analysis test for over a decade now. Very frustrating to watch.
He got injured guys. It happens. That doesn’t qualify as a screwed up decision. Put the pitchforks away.
Jones was sacked 30 times last season in six games. in the 11 games that he did not play, the Giants still allowed an average of five sacks per game. So don’t give me that bit about Jones being responsible for a significant number of the sacks. In 2022, he was sacked 44 times and still managed to lead the team into the playoffs and a playoff victory. In 2020, in 14 games he was sacked 43 times.
The only time that Eli took over 40 sacks was 47 in 2018. That season, despite the brilliant rookie season of Barkley, and despite over 1000 yards of receptions in 12 games by Beckham, the team for the year was 5–11. In the Super Bowl winning years of 2007 and 2008 Eli was sacked 27 and 28 times, and Eli was no mobile quarterback.
The O-Line that gave up the third most sacks in history was also ranked by one of those services 31st in run blocking.
This persecution of Jones is the worst I have seen on this board since a loud and vocal group got on Hakeem Nicks for “dogging it.” It seemed to them that he was not really trying that hard in the preseason. This was ridiculous, as it was his contract year. No way a guy with millions at stake in his next contract wouldn’t be trying his hardest all season. I practiced law in New York and New Jersey, and to me this is a clear case with Nicks and Jones of ignoring the evidence, and making an emotional decision. A lynch mob mentality.
I think my pedigree is a Giants’ fan is as good as anyone here. I was a fan when Frank Gifford at the flanker position was catching passes from Y.A. Tittle. I stuck with the team through every one of its 17 years of not making the postseason. When I was in Massachusetts, and I couldn’t get the game on the radio, I would drive south until I could pick up the signal from Rhode Island.
I agree with Phil Simms that Jones has the talent, but it is his injuries that will do him in. There is a real parallel with Simms here, as he only played three or four games in his fourth and fifth seasons in the league, was replaced by Parcells with Scott Brunner at the beginning of his sixth year. And came very close to losing his whole career as a starter. And Jones, if he gets the chance to start next season, will also miss having Barkley beside him in the backfield.
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In comment 16441266 Eric from BBI said:
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When an organization screws up it's most important decision, unless there is some self-reflection not only on the decision, but the decision-making process, then the same type of mistake is likely to happen again.
This is why enterprises fail.
The Giants have been failing the self-analysis test for over a decade now. Very frustrating to watch.
He got injured guys. It happens. That doesn’t qualify as a screwed up decision. Put the pitchforks away.
It was a screwed up decision, that’s not debatable. Injuries are not the reason they are moving on from Jones. They’ll definitely spin in that way but it’s not the truth.
There are not many Eli Mannings out there and trying to catch lightning in a bottle by drafting the second coming is both foolhardy and risky. We already had a Duke QB bust and now we were staking our future on drafting this kid.
Meanwhile, when other franchises like Arizona and Philly drafted their respective wunderkinds..they pivoted quickly and we doubled down.
We also drafted Saquon extremely high just as the value of a running back was reaching the apex and starting to slide down the value chart of players.
We put everything on these two players and suffered because of it. I think Mara had everything to do with Gettleman drafting these two players where they did. I also think that Mara had a large part in that DJ contract extension.
So, if my opinion is true, then Joe has political capital to remain the Giants GM and maybe have a freer reign to build a winner without the Mara Meddling Machine looking over his shoulder!
Bingo!
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In comment 16442332 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 16441266 Eric from BBI said:
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When an organization screws up it's most important decision, unless there is some self-reflection not only on the decision, but the decision-making process, then the same type of mistake is likely to happen again.
This is why enterprises fail.
The Giants have been failing the self-analysis test for over a decade now. Very frustrating to watch.
He got injured guys. It happens. That doesn’t qualify as a screwed up decision. Put the pitchforks away.
It was a screwed up decision, that’s not debatable. Injuries are not the reason they are moving on from Jones. They’ll definitely spin in that way but it’s not the truth.
Keep pulling those opinions out of your ass.
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When an organization screws up it's most important decision, unless there is some self-reflection not only on the decision, but the decision-making process, then the same type of mistake is likely to happen again.
This is why enterprises fail.
The Giants have been failing the self-analysis test for over a decade now. Very frustrating to watch.
This is correct and really not debatable. Now, predictably, the injuries can be used as part of the justification to pull the escape hatch.
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In comment 16442377 mittenedman said:
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In comment 16442332 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 16441266 Eric from BBI said:
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When an organization screws up it's most important decision, unless there is some self-reflection not only on the decision, but the decision-making process, then the same type of mistake is likely to happen again.
This is why enterprises fail.
The Giants have been failing the self-analysis test for over a decade now. Very frustrating to watch.
He got injured guys. It happens. That doesn’t qualify as a screwed up decision. Put the pitchforks away.
It was a screwed up decision, that’s not debatable. Injuries are not the reason they are moving on from Jones. They’ll definitely spin in that way but it’s not the truth.
Keep pulling those opinions out of your ass.
What “opinion out of my ass”?
Just to be clear, you think signing him to that contract was a good decision? And you think they are looking for a new QB only or mainly because of the injuries? Funny how Cincy or the chargers aren’t looking for new QBs when their guys get injured….
How could you possibly argue either of those positions? Explain that.
Jones was sacked 30 times last season in six games. in the 11 games that he did not play, the Giants still allowed an average of five sacks per game. So don’t give me that bit about Jones being responsible for a significant number of the sacks. In 2022, he was sacked 44 times and still managed to lead the team into the playoffs and a playoff victory. In 2020, in 14 games he was sacked 43 times.
The only time that Eli took over 40 sacks was 47 in 2018. That season, despite the brilliant rookie season of Barkley, and despite over 1000 yards of receptions in 12 games by Beckham, the team for the year was 5–11. In the Super Bowl winning years of 2007 and 2008 Eli was sacked 27 and 28 times, and Eli was no mobile quarterback.
The O-Line that gave up the third most sacks in history was also ranked by one of those services 31st in run blocking.
This persecution of Jones is the worst I have seen on this board since a loud and vocal group got on Hakeem Nicks for “dogging it.” It seemed to them that he was not really trying that hard in the preseason. This was ridiculous, as it was his contract year. No way a guy with millions at stake in his next contract wouldn’t be trying his hardest all season. I practiced law in New York and New Jersey, and to me this is a clear case with Nicks and Jones of ignoring the evidence, and making an emotional decision. A lynch mob mentality.
I think my pedigree is a Giants’ fan is as good as anyone here. I was a fan when Frank Gifford at the flanker position was catching passes from Y.A. Tittle. I stuck with the team through every one of its 17 years of not making the postseason. When I was in Massachusetts, and I couldn’t get the game on the radio, I would drive south until I could pick up the signal from Rhode Island.
I agree with Phil Simms that Jones has the talent, but it is his injuries that will do him in. There is a real parallel with Simms here, as he only played three or four games in his fourth and fifth seasons in the league, was replaced by Parcells with Scott Brunner at the beginning of his sixth year. And came very close to losing his whole career as a starter. And Jones, if he gets the chance to start next season, will also miss having Barkley beside him in the backfield.
How many times are you going to copy and paste this exact comment?
If Jones is a post June 1 cut the giants will carry 22m in 2025, correct?
If he can’t pass a physical next March and they cut him they will carry 45mil in 2025, do I have this right?
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In comment 16441266 Eric from BBI said:
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When an organization screws up it's most important decision, unless there is some self-reflection not only on the decision, but the decision-making process, then the same type of mistake is likely to happen again.
This is why enterprises fail.
The Giants have been failing the self-analysis test for over a decade now. Very frustrating to watch.
He got injured guys. It happens. That doesn’t qualify as a screwed up decision. Put the pitchforks away.
He "got" injured? What about the other years? He has been "often-injured (or so much so there was a concern he may have to retire)," hasn't he?
After 2022 you had all this risk and it wasignored just as you are ignroing. So, please, lets put The Blue Shades away.
I agree with Phil Simms that Jones has the talent, but it is his injuries that will do him in. backfield.
I agree to a certain extent. Too many fans ignore 2022 as if it doesn't exist. The OL was a disaster. Past coaching prior to 2022 was a disaster.
With all that said - why are you still pretending like it's the Frank Gifford era in regard to your current post? Phil Simms wants to or recently wanted keep him this year-- that is/was obviously reckless.
There was no reason to pay Jones after 2022 with what he got. It was reckless just as Simms comments are reckless just as you are defending the decision to have kept Jones for such a large contract reckless if you are siding with Simms.
But if you pull yourself away from the Frank Gifford era - then what are you going to do today - now with the draft? IMO we should avoid continuing to be reckless and out ourselves in a position to get a QB.
" it was only 6 games"
" the Oline has completely destroyed him"
" he was hit on every single throw in 2023"
There's plenty more but I can't keep reading these.
Yeah, but what if DJ called our bluff and actually took an offer elsewhere, leaving us with only Tyrod and Tommy D for the year? We probably would have had a terrible season and been picking at like #6 in the draft! ;-)
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As the Bucs did with Mayfield.
Yeah, but what if DJ called our bluff and actually took an offer elsewhere, leaving us with only Tyrod and Tommy D for the year? We probably would have had a terrible season and been picking at like #6 in the draft! ;-)
1-- But if you knew you were going to negotiate with him and pay the big salary (instead of going all-into sign him), you would have developed timelines and a backup plan.
2-- Also, if you weren;t going to sign him, then why go after Waller? WHy sign Barkley?
3-- with 1 and two above also in play we probably would be picking ahead of 6.