Last offseason, the decision was made by "the Giants" to retain both Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley. The team tried to get a deal done with both before the Franchise Tag deadline. No deal could be reached with Barkley. The Giants reached a last-minute deal with Jones that allowed the team to slap the Franchise Tag on Barkley.
When the dust settled, Barkley's non-exclusive Franchise equaled a 1-year, $10.091 commitment. However, the team restructured that deal in July to $11 million, including a $2 million signing bonus.
Which brings us to the point of this thread: Jones' 4-year, $160 million contract including a $36,000,000 signing bonus, $92,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $40,000,000.
2023 could not have gone worse for Jones. He suffered his second career neck injury in Week 5 and missed the next three games. When he returned in Week 9, he tore the ACL in his right knee, finishing his season. On top of all of that, Jones was 1-5 in games that he did start, finishing the year with just 909 passing yards, two touchdowns, and six interceptions. His injuries and performance issues now put into question his long-term tenure with the organization.
NFL owners are rich. Bad contracts are commonplace. But if I'm the owner of the Giants, I am asking some serious questions right now because just a year ago, I was asked to write a $100 million check to a player who may be on his way out in a year. The only way I'm not pissed at someone else is if I am the one pushed for a long-term deal for Jones.
The smarter decision during the 2023 offseason would have been to let Barkley walk in free agency and tag Jones. So my question is this? Who is chiefly responsible for making the decision on the Jones' contract?
Option #1: While Mara will provide his opinion, he completely defers to Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll on personnel issues. The decision to retain Jones with a huge contract is completely on them. And Mara and Tisch have every right to be really upset at this point, especially if the team is truly considering drafting another quarterback.
Option #2: All parties are equally responsible, Schoen and Daboll not only believed in Jones, but so did ownership and family members such as Tim McDonnell and Chris Mara. Schoen and Daboll don't have complete autonomy, but in this case it did not matter.
Option #3: Schoen and Mara had their doubts about Jones, but ownership/family pushed for a long-term commitment based on what ended up being fool's gold (the "legendary" Vikings playoff game).
The public will probably never know the truth, but it is an important question because someone screwed the pooch big time. The contract erased the cap gains the team made in 2022 and set back the rebuild by at least one year, and probably two. It was a colossal mistake. And who is largely responsible may determine how shaky the ground is around Schoen and Daboll.
Total organizational failure.
But it feels like option 3.
JS had a plan the minute he walked into the door. He didn't give Jones his 5th year option (still the right move) but the Giants won a playoff game. Ownership declared "We are back".
Or it's option 2 and the fool's gold, fooled everybody.
Even this website. Even some of the biggest Jones detractors "believed" after the wild card run. Most people were happy that we resigned Jones.
The misfire of the entire organization was operating as if Barkley and Jones were a package deal, and then Schoen going public with everything from "Jones will be the QB" to his intentions of how/when he would use the franchise tag.
Long story short, Schoen and Daboll "liked" not "loved" Jones. I don't think it was based on one game. I think they felt simply that Jones did everything asked him of him and they managed to win a playoff game with not such great talent around him. The Minnesota game shouldn't be overstated, but it also shouldn't be completely discarded the way it is around here. Winning road playoff games is hard in the NFL and you can tell me all about the Vikes defense but I would counter with, aside from Jones himself and Barkley, what did the 2022 NYG offense have to offer? Not much.
Anyway, the whole situation has backfired and that sucks, but as far as the contract itself is concerned, it's bad but it could be much, much worse if Schoen and Daboll had truly fallen for him.
Of course Jones plays a role in this failure, but no one has a crystal ball when they make these decisions.
It turned out horribly. I don't think I'd call it a colossal mistake from bad process.
Mara and Tisch should be mad that they put Ezeudu in at left tackle with no plan.
Owners have influence and sway over huge deals like this one. Rarely if ever will you see a QB sign a huge deal and learn the owner couldn't care less or didn't influence things at all. This is just common sense. But that doesn't mean John Mara was kicking Schoen's door down demanding Jones get paid "too much money." Mara definitely endorsed it. That is obvious because Jones was offered a big deal. Endorsed. NOT ENFORCED. And if was enforced, oh well...Schoen let it happen and has no one to blame but himself. HE should have insisted on stipulations when he was hired as GM in January of 2022.
Believe what you want. BBI loves to mold and nurture villains.
Think about it.
Schoen is so much more intelligent than you folks, I need popcorn for this.
If the Giants knew that they were that far apart from Barkley and his agents they should have traded him.
If Barkley was traded there would have been a domino effect.
The Giants could have used the franchise tag on Jones.
The net result would be that this year we might have an additional 3rd round pick and Jones could have been released without CAP implications.
Think about it.
Schoen is so much more intelligent than you folks, I need popcorn for this.
It certainly was not the correct call. It was a colossal mistake. If the Giants had tagged Jones and let Barkley walk, the team would have been in an infinitely better position than it is today.
But it feels like option 3.
JS had a plan the minute he walked into the door. He didn't give Jones his 5th year option (still the right move) but the Giants won a playoff game. Ownership declared "We are back".
Or it's option 2 and the fool's gold, fooled everybody.
Even this website. Even some of the biggest Jones detractors "believed" after the wild card run. Most people were happy that we resigned Jones.
Agreed. Most likely option 3, possibly 2.
It matters. Especially depending on which option is the correct one.
That playoff game really clouded the FO, and coaches eyes.
The offensive line was horrific, dreadful and historically bad - the worst thing for a slow read QB.
I never though the tag on Jones was an option because it killed their chances at FA.
Barkley stupidly and now sullenly turned down a contract that would have given Schoen more options with Jones
Mara & Co definitely had a helicopter parent mentality with both Jones an Barkley....
It all adds up to a clusterf#*k contract....
There weren't great options if they let Daniel Jones walk.
There were concerns (rightfully so) that the offense lacked weapons and letting Barkley walk would have only compounded the problem.
I think the decision to give Jones this contract was a lot more about about Saquon than it was about Jones.
Whether Mara was involved in the decision or not, there was likely concern by Schoen and Daboll that if they let Saquon walk, Mara would have been upset, especially if the team took a step back. Saquon had been the face of the franchise and been the best player on offense.
If Schoen and Daboll never had to worry about ever getting fired, then letting Saquon walk and franchising Jones would have been the easy answer. But, they do have to worry about getting fired, because it's been happening a lot recently within the Giants organization.
It probably would have made more sense to cave to Saquon and give him the contract he wanted and franchise Jones. It would have been a mistake, but it would have been a smaller one.
Of course Jones plays a role in this failure, but no one has a crystal ball when they make these decisions.
It turned out horribly. I don't think I'd call it a colossal mistake from bad process.
There may not be a so called crystal ball but most of the rest of the planet knew that contract was insane at the time. There were some that convinced themselves that it wasn’t bad because A. They really like Jones and B. They convinced themselves that it was really only a two year deal so it was “easy” to get out of. Players around the league were commenting and expressing their disbelief at the contract from the time it was signed. No crystal ball needed.
I have no idea who to blame the most but I would absolutely love to have a beer with Daboll and slip some truth serum into his drink to get his true feelings. Of all those involved in this decision, I find it hardest to believe Daboll was the driving factor here. Imo, he may have been resigned to the fact that there weren’t better options at the time and he went along with it and hoped he was wrong. But this dude knows what a real QB looks like first hand. And listening to him ramble on about how awesome Allen is in the week leading up to Bills week was very telling. The best thing he’s ever said about Jones is he’s done everything we’ve asked of him. I’ll never believe Jones is Dabolls guy
HE was gushing over Jones by mid December. Daboll liked Jones. A lot. HE liked how Jones played in 2022. A lot. YOU didn't and if you won't acknowledge 2022 as anything more than an overrated below average performance from Jones you will never see shit.
The Giants were quite pleased with DJ following 2022. They acted like it. They looked like. They fucking said it. Just deal with it already. GMS and HCs have been wrong before about the QB. Our own legendary George Young was. So were many others before and after him.
and if they tagged him, and he had a good year, (as many in the organization obviously expected) what would it cost to sign him moving forward? every decision has moving parts, c'mon.
This is why enterprises fail.
Schoen and Daboll wanted him back. It's clear.
Now they gave DJ a big contract with anticipation of 1) he grows into being worth the contract (and possibly more), and 2) the cap was going to go up as were QB dollars so it wouldn't look bad in 2 years even if it didn't work out so good. Judging the contract after 5 games w/o Thomas/Saquon/Wandale on offense is incredibly reactionary, and I think that's just fan frustration from a decade of suckage talking.
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had tagged Daniel Jones, we would all be saying, "thank God they only tagged him last year!"
and if they tagged him, and he had a good year, (as many in the organization obviously expected) what would it cost to sign him moving forward? every decision has moving parts, c'mon.
As far as I can tell, the Giants gave Daniel Jones $160 million dollars because he had an above average season. Don't forget, this contract was widely mocked. Guess who was right?
I think the opposite. They know they screwed up, time to move on. Don't force it, but the sooner DJ is gone the better. Even a trade eating some contract $$ for a bag of donuts is the way to go...
However, saying that the decision wasn't a bad one is a non-starter with me.
This is why enterprises fail.
Yup. Total fuck up, but the key is if this organization learned something in it.
1. Gettldmen fell in love eith him during his private workout.
2. Shurmur clearly wanted to start him as a rookie but made him sit 2 games in deference to Eli.
3. Judge praised him after he was canned.
4. I think Schoen and Daboll saw the same practice MVP in 2022 and when they had some success, they were convinced that the guy they saw in practice was finally showing up on gameday amd gave him the contract.
“To me, it was the poise,” Mara said. “That building is as loud as can be, and you look at him, and he’s in complete control of the offense. It gave me a lot of confidence that I don’t care how many times they score, we’re gonna score more.”
I asked Mara when it became a finality to him that Daniel Jones would be his Quarterback of the Future.
“It was a while ago I think … he just keeps getting better and better every week,” Mara said.
Mara laughed when it was suggested that he got the succession plan for Eli right (yes, with former GM Dave Gettleman’s help) and said: “Hey I can’t screw up everything, I gotta get something right.”
2. Schoen admitting they planned to bring Jones back in the end of season press conference.
NYG showed all their cards and Team Jones took full advantage. Speaking like this regarding a pending FA is malpractice imo.
Lastly, you are fooling yourself if you didn't think Schoen was in an impossible spot here. Just look at those quotes and read the article I've linked.
Link - ( New Window )
However, saying that the decision wasn't a bad one is a non-starter with me.
At the time it was logical. He was the best QB on the team and there wasn't any other QB worth chasing in FA. Hindsight is 20-20. It looks bad now.
What if he bounces back in 24? Not allowed to entertain that one I guess?
I hope the owners did ask a lot of questions and the contract would be a good bit down the list.
Daboll did say, "Nobody is happy in the building."
That's exactly right.
Obviously the smart play was to properly evaluate DJ and cut bait altogether. But realizing that good business sense is a foreign language at 1925 Giants Drive and that emotions run high off of actually participating in the playoffs, the Franchise Tag was such a damn obvious choice.
Shame on Joe Schoen for not bringing logic into an emotional building. And even if he got caught up himself in as a newcomer to the DJFC, how he didn't just pay Saquon a few more contract dollars and put the tag on DJ I will never know. Even as a rookie GM that mistake was a whopper.
They should have pivoted and either traded him or let him go as a free agent.
This was more about Barkley. Barkley had expressed a desire to be a Giant for life and I am certain that was a consideration.
It goes to show that this is a business from both the team's side and the player's side.
Barkley ultimately screwed the Giants and their plans. He knew he was going to take the best contract that he was offered yet he let them believe that he wanted to stay.
Schoen will learn from this and be a better GM in the future.
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They made the correct call. I don’t know shit, but I KNEW Jones was getting resigned after that playoff game. The fact we can get out of it soon shows how Strong Schoen negotiated. He was in a position of weakness. I think the people criticizing the move are doing it based solely on hind sight. giants were in a tough spot. We have options THIS YEAR because of how welll Schoen has done. He fucking signed Burns. Burns and Thibs competing.
Think about it.
Schoen is so much more intelligent than you folks, I need popcorn for this.
It certainly was not the correct call. It was a colossal mistake. If the Giants had tagged Jones and let Barkley walk, the team would have been in an infinitely better position than it is today.
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In comment 16441254 Eric from BBI said:
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had tagged Daniel Jones, we would all be saying, "thank God they only tagged him last year!"
and if they tagged him, and he had a good year, (as many in the organization obviously expected) what would it cost to sign him moving forward? every decision has moving parts, c'mon.
As far as I can tell, the Giants gave Daniel Jones $160 million dollars because he had an above average season. Don't forget, this contract was widely mocked. Guess who was right?
The Giants have been mocked at almost every juncture with Jones, yet some continue to insist everyone else is wrong.
20/20 hindsight given the injuries that no one could predict, no?
Schoen's failure was he didn't properly manage up and protect his bosses from themselves. The "we're not keeping Jones" conversation needed to start the day Schoen was interviewed for the GM job and continue throughout 2022.
We know how much ownership doesn't like to look like a clown show. I expect they're praying that Jones's injuries prevent him from being able to play at all this year. Convenient excuse to move on.
"If he really is the real deal and tears it up under the tag, we are going to have to pay him even more in a year", but this is a good situation to be in.
"We can sign him now and save significant contract size", but what if he regresses and the contract is an albatross - this is a shitty situation.
Sure if they tagged him - it would have been about 13 million less cap a year ago, so no Okereke and maybe a few others not on the team. The team would have been a little worse, but probably a better draft pick now assuming things went similar.
I just do not get why not tagging him? It seemed obvious to me back then, but I think they must have thought he was ready to take the next step.
Thus, this decision on Jones was/is on Schoen. Of course, you have to assume Daboll agreed with marching forward with Jones, but Schoen did the negotiating.
Now, it's a mistake and that happens. But the key is admitting the mistake and changing course. And managing Mara to get on board. Because that's what effect leadership is with any business...
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had tagged Daniel Jones, we would all be saying, "thank God they only tagged him last year!"
20/20 hindsight given the injuries that no one could predict, no?
It's not hindsight.
Jones had a rookie season filled with glimpses of good and bad play. He was terrible for two seasons. He had an above average 2022 campaign.
So the option was to tag him or fold and give him $160 million.
How is this hindsight?
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thread breathe without further input on my part. I've made my point.
However, saying that the decision wasn't a bad one is a non-starter with me.
At the time it was logical. He was the best QB on the team and there wasn't any other QB worth chasing in FA. Hindsight is 20-20. It looks bad now.
What if he bounces back in 24? Not allowed to entertain that one I guess?
You don’t need to show up on every thread thinking you’re a white knight riding in to set everyone else straight with your shouting and incoherent rambling. You’ve admitted to always being the guy that feels like he has to ride in to “balance out the discussion” so we know it’s a fact you do this. You don’t believe most of what you say. You’re simply playing the contrarian character.
I particularly love your statement that they absolutely love Jones because “they said it!”. Haha. We’ve also seen Daboll on multiple occasions rip him to shreds on the sidelines and throw tablets down in disgust. Based on your logic we can all assume that he must hate him then, right? Bottom line is, you don’t know how Daboll and/or Schoen truly feel. You have zero clue, just like the rest of us. You have no idea if it was Mara involved or not. So stop with the bullshit and acting like you do know. You don’t. No matter how many fake rants you throw at us
There's too much hope in the NYG plan, the tough decisions are often punted or wrong.