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Rumors: Doubts Daniel Jones may be able to pass physical.

GoDeep13 : 3/21/2024 11:04 am
There are a lot of things I want to post but I’m obligated to wait til the week of the draft. One thing that is big is there are reportedly a handful of people in the organization that doubt jones will be able to pass a physical. Apparently he hasn’t recovered as expected from the ACL and they here has been a noticeable reduction of motion in his throwing arm.

Giants were willing to run it back with Jones but fear that his injuries in ‘23 have made him too much of a liability going forward as much as they like the man. They cannot, in good faith, rely on him going into the ‘24 season. Drew lock was signed to be the potential starter in the initial weeks when Jones’s recovery seemed to suffer a setback (Thus the explanation that Jones is still the presumptive starter). However further reports from medical doctors are leading the Giants to full pivot off Jones. It’s no longer about whether he is good enough, it’s simply come down to “will he hold up” and the Giants have been told that one more injury to the kneck will lead to retirement from Jones.

Finally. It was explained to me like this.

“Remember John McCain?”
Me: “The Governor?”
“yes. Remember he couldn’t lift his arms above his head?”
Me: “Kinda”
“Daniel Jones is one hit away”
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RE: I would not be surprised in the least  
bw in dc : 3/21/2024 12:57 pm : link
In comment 16441525 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
But the Giants have been doing a great job keeping their plans secret if this is true. Your source is a dick for leaking this news.

Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.


This certainly adds important color to the situation. Would you rather not know this?
RE: RE: RE: And if Jones can’t play this year  
Rjanyg : 3/21/2024 12:58 pm : link
In comment 16441526 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
In comment 16441365 Darwinian said:


Quote:


In comment 16441336 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.

I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..



It's not mortgaging the future to trade up and get a QB. It's betting on the future. The Giants have no future without a viable QB on the roster.

Do you think a rookie qb playing behind this line is viable? What are your expectations from a rookie qb?


Jack, you seem like a nice guy. I appreciate your support for DJ.

1. Lock would start
2. The line has been fortified with 4 FA signings, Runyan and Eluminor look to be starters.
3. The draft could bring more OL and most likley our new QB of the future. You may want to start to accept this.
Of course  
BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit : 3/21/2024 12:59 pm : link
Love the player, like the player or hate the player, he never did anything to personally have a grudge against the man and if there is an issue that could mess with him for his life I hope that he considers the fact that he is still a very young man.

That being said- it IS possible that someone with two major neck injuries suffers a lingering problem that wouldn't necessarily need a third injury to exacerbate. It could just be a worsening situation involving range of motion, strength and pain.
RE: RE: I would not be surprised in the least  
Andy in Halifax : 3/21/2024 12:59 pm : link
In comment 16441572 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16441525 Andy in Halifax said:


Quote:


But the Giants have been doing a great job keeping their plans secret if this is true. Your source is a dick for leaking this news.

Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.



This certainly adds important color to the situation. Would you rather not know this?
I'd rather us be good again. If that means telling the world DJ is our starter and then plucking a QB at 6 then so be it. My desire to know what's up is trumped by my desire for us to win again.
RE: RE: I would not be surprised in the least  
GFAN52 : 3/21/2024 1:00 pm : link
In comment 16441554 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16441525 Andy in Halifax said:


Quote:


But the Giants have been doing a great job keeping their plans secret if this is true. Your source is a dick for leaking this news.

Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.

Cmon, the NFL knows we are highly interested in a QB. This scoop does nothing...


Exactly, nearly every mock draft since January usually mentions that the Giants could potentially take a QB at 6 or trade up for one. Nothing posted here is some sudden earth shattering news that would impair the Giants draft plans as they relate to other teams strategy.
RE: RE: RE: I would not be surprised in the least  
BleedBlue46 : 3/21/2024 1:04 pm : link
In comment 16441580 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
In comment 16441572 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16441525 Andy in Halifax said:


Quote:


But the Giants have been doing a great job keeping their plans secret if this is true. Your source is a dick for leaking this news.

Either way, if true I am glad Jones got paid and hope he retires as healthy as possible and lives a normal life.



This certainly adds important color to the situation. Would you rather not know this?

I'd rather us be good again. If that means telling the world DJ is our starter and then plucking a QB at 6 then so be it. My desire to know what's up is trumped by my desire for us to win again.


I agree, but we aren't surprising anyone with this news. Papa Mara's schill himself wrote an article about this recently even.
Daniel Jones  
Archer : 3/21/2024 1:09 pm : link
My trainer has worked with Daniel Jones. He is not training him now but they do occasionally talk.

This is hearsay but I am told that his arm injury was an impingement that it has resolved itself. Jones had limited range of motion due to the neck injury. He tried to play threw it.

The knee is responding to treatment. If anything Jones had to be restrained because he was pushing himself too hard. There was no timetable discussed, but Jones is preparing for the season.


RE: Daniel Jones  
BleedBlue46 : 3/21/2024 1:12 pm : link
In comment 16441597 Archer said:
Quote:
My trainer has worked with Daniel Jones. He is not training him now but they do occasionally talk.

This is hearsay but I am told that his arm injury was an impingement that it has resolved itself. Jones had limited range of motion due to the neck injury. He tried to play threw it.

The knee is responding to treatment. If anything Jones had to be restrained because he was pushing himself too hard. There was no timetable discussed, but Jones is preparing for the season.



This sounds right, but it seems clear the Giants are done with DJ and the excuse/reason is due to injury concerns. At least that's hoe Schoen sold it to Mara.
RE: Daniel Jones  
Giantsbigblue : 3/21/2024 1:22 pm : link
In comment 16441597 Archer said:
Quote:
My trainer has worked with Daniel Jones. He is not training him now but they do occasionally talk.

This is hearsay but I am told that his arm injury was an impingement that it has resolved itself. Jones had limited range of motion due to the neck injury. He tried to play threw it.

The knee is responding to treatment. If anything Jones had to be restrained because he was pushing himself too hard. There was no timetable discussed, but Jones is preparing for the season.



Makes sense to me. From what I've heard Jones is a gym rat.
This is a big negative  
Dankbeerman : 3/21/2024 1:24 pm : link
to our training staff. If he was hampered by the neck injury messing up his throwing he should never have been playing in LV.

Screams out that he never would have played in LV if Tyrod didn't get hurt.

RE: RE: And if Jones can’t play this year  
Breeze_94 : 3/21/2024 1:29 pm : link
In comment 16441466 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 16441336 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.

I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..


1. Getting the QB is the MOST important part of that future. Without one, the future sucks

2. What gives you the impression that the Giants will be remotely close to being able to get one of those two guys ne t year? Are you assuming the Giants will be the only team looking for a QB in the next draft?


I don’t think you understand my post. Yes, getting a QB is important - hence why I mentioned Williams/Maye.

But the Giants are not getting either guy or Daniels. This fan base needs to come to terms with that. It is my opinion (and through various reports over the last week) that there is nothing they can offer (within reason) to get those top 3 teams to move off their spot.

So now the entire fan base has talked themselves into McCarthy as a guy who they should not only draft, but trade next years 1st to move up for. It would be a colossal mistake.

As for the Beck/Sanders statement - they will certainly have a better chance at either of those guys. Especially considering how awful Jones and Lock are (according to everyone around here)
I don’t know  
Daniel in MI : 3/21/2024 1:32 pm : link
But I do know it’s BS season when teams may very well float BS to cover their intentions in the draft. So I take all reports now through draft day with a healthy pinch of salt.
....  
Micko : 3/21/2024 1:32 pm : link
If this is true - which is devastating for Jones - then they certainly should entertain going all on a QB. I just can't believe it's going to the goal post meditation guru from Michigan.
While I appreciate the insight GD13  
Dinger : 3/21/2024 1:35 pm : link
I cant get past the image of your converstation
“Remember John McCain?”
GD13: “The Governor?”
Me: "Governor"?
Boon: "Forget it, he's rolling"
“yes. Remember he couldn’t lift his arms above his head?”
GD13: “Kinda”
Me: "wasn't that from a plane crash or being tortured in Vietnam?"
“Daniel Jones is one hit away”
.....  
Micko : 3/21/2024 1:35 pm : link
I know I'm a prick but every time I saw this, my first thought was - no way I want this guy. lol.


RE: RE: RE: And if Jones can’t play this year  
BleedBlue46 : 3/21/2024 1:37 pm : link
In comment 16441623 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
In comment 16441466 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 16441336 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.

I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..


1. Getting the QB is the MOST important part of that future. Without one, the future sucks

2. What gives you the impression that the Giants will be remotely close to being able to get one of those two guys ne t year? Are you assuming the Giants will be the only team looking for a QB in the next draft?



I don’t think you understand my post. Yes, getting a QB is important - hence why I mentioned Williams/Maye.

But the Giants are not getting either guy or Daniels. This fan base needs to come to terms with that. It is my opinion (and through various reports over the last week) that there is nothing they can offer (within reason) to get those top 3 teams to move off their spot.

So now the entire fan base has talked themselves into McCarthy as a guy who they should not only draft, but trade next years 1st to move up for. It would be a colossal mistake.

As for the Beck/Sanders statement - they will certainly have a better chance at either of those guys. Especially considering how awful Jones and Lock are (according to everyone around here)


If the Patriots really want to stay within the top 6 while still trading down I don't think the 2025 1st is necessary in a trade up. We won 6 games with Devito and Tyrod Taylor while having a very tough schedule, it easily could have been 9 all while the o line was devastated with myriad injuries. This year with improved line play and pass rush along with an easier schedule I don't see us being within reach of any promising qb prospects.
....  
Micko : 3/21/2024 1:40 pm : link
Well - Mara's comment that they've done everything they could to screw that kid up is certainly true. Granted, 100 million isn't a bad trade off. Now he can join the Eli Manning show. Eli and Daniel can have a contest for who can give the most boring interview.
Jones would do himself a favour...  
Fishmanjim57 : 3/21/2024 1:40 pm : link
as well as the Giants if just retired. The guy has taken a beating, and I wouldn't blame him to cash in and take the early retirement. I'm sure the Giants will pay him off and he'll be set up for the rest of his life in his finances.
Lying season  
mako J : 3/21/2024 1:45 pm : link
The more qbs drafted in the top 5 the better likelihood they get their alpha WR of choice. Hell, they may even end up being able to trade down and get multiple bites of the apple. The strengths of this draft line up well for the team’s needs.
RE: Jones would do himself a favour...  
christian : 3/21/2024 1:46 pm : link
In comment 16441633 Fishmanjim57 said:
Quote:
as well as the Giants if just retired.


Jones would be costing himself a potential 23M if he just retires.
Injury  
kickoff : 3/21/2024 1:54 pm : link
Here we go again..
If the Giants were worried about this  
JohnF : 3/21/2024 2:15 pm : link
Why did they let Russell Wilson get away? Wilson wanted to start, which is why he's with the Steelers now.

Unless something got worst between the time of Wilson's interview and now, the Front Office HAD to know DJ's injury situation...and his injury history.

Jones simply can't stay healthy. That's not a crime, it's not Daniel's fault...but the Front Office had to try and convince Russell to sign. If that meant DJ had to sit, then the team had to make that move.
RE: RE: RE: And if Jones can’t play this year  
Darwinian : 3/21/2024 2:22 pm : link
In comment 16441451 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16441365 Darwinian said:


Quote:


In comment 16441336 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


That’s fine. But I am still not mortgaging my future to move up for any QB besides Williams and Maye.

I’ll take Nabers, play Lock, and pick Sanders or Beck next year. Both guys are better than McCarthy..



It's not mortgaging the future to trade up and get a QB. It's betting on the future. The Giants have no future without a viable QB on the roster.



I wouldn't be surprised if JJM is the player us and the Vikings are trying to trade up for..


Does seem that way. But I hope the Gia ts can land DM or JD instead. I'm not seeing it with JJM yet. Seems like more of a project.
RE: RE: RE: Matt M.  
Matt M. : 3/21/2024 2:23 pm : link
In comment 16441411 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 16441333 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 16441297 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Wasn’t that Dole too?



Dole had a spinal injury from a shellburst which left him with little use of one arm.

I apologize and plead full ignorance. I thought the shoulder was from torture. Even still, is the spine injury from a shell similar to his neck injury?
Scratch that apology. I didn't read carefully and thought Greg was telling me McCain took a shell. Back to my initial view of no similarities between McCain and Jones.
thanks for the info GoDeep  
Roto_Wizard : 3/21/2024 2:27 pm : link
Regarding what this would do to Jones' contract status - if he's unable to pass a physical, would the team be able to move off of him cheaper? Or would that not change the dead cap figures?

Sounds like the team was already going to avoid having him take a snap in 2024, but if this report it true, it is all but a certainty.

I know that many folks on the board were looking forward to moving off of Jones regardless, but it is a shame that he sustained this string of injuries.
And... I will juxtapose my comment on the contract thread to say this:  
hyadoin : 3/21/2024 2:30 pm : link
Given the fact that this team has let DJ get murdered for 5 years... Do you blame him for taking every penny he can get and ride off to greener pastures?

A disappointment. Sadly we may never know what he might have been with more than 1.9 seconds to throw and someone to throw it to.
RE: If the Giants were worried about this  
BleedBlue46 : 3/21/2024 2:31 pm : link
In comment 16441667 JohnF said:
Quote:
Why did they let Russell Wilson get away? Wilson wanted to start, which is why he's with the Steelers now.

Unless something got worst between the time of Wilson's interview and now, the Front Office HAD to know DJ's injury situation...and his injury history.

Jones simply can't stay healthy. That's not a crime, it's not Daniel's fault...but the Front Office had to try and convince Russell to sign. If that meant DJ had to sit, then the team had to make that move.


Simple answer is usually right: Wilson wanted a chance to get in the playoffs and continue his legacy.
This is why you build a solid o line  
kelly : 3/21/2024 2:47 pm : link
Before putting a rookie qb behind it.
RE: I think Jones has the same issue that Peyton Manning did.  
regischarlotte : 3/21/2024 3:07 pm : link
In comment 16441384 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
And if it is, I have the same/similar issue and also had an anterior cervical discectomy and fusion (which Manning did). Like Peyton, I have neuro deficits (mine are in my right hand); I'm typing without my thumb right now (because it's extremely limited).

It's a fairly serious injury/condition. I've been told that I can live my life exactly like I used to, but I'm definitely hesitant to do things like go on roller coasters, etc. If I were an NFL caliber player (lol), I'd definitely risk it for my one shot of glory, but there certainly is a risk for things to get worse.

I hope DJ is ok first and foremost.


This. I also had ACDF, double fusion at C5/C6 and C6/C7. All good now, but that surgery is no joke.
RE: Just watch the hit  
ColHowPepper : 3/21/2024 3:09 pm : link
In comment 16441330 Chris684 said:
Quote:
and the way he comes off the field, and remember this is neck injury number 2. Link - ( New Window )

Thanks, Chris, recall it now that you've put it up here.

Working my way through GoDeep13's thread--thank you for your nearly flawless insider scoops, man!!--and probably debated in depth above, but man his injury guarantee/medical/retirement come even more front and center than ever, and wasn't lying deep in the weeds to begin with. How does Schoen extricate the team from this albatross of a provision?
For those saying well why was he cleared for the LV game  
Blue Dream : 3/21/2024 3:10 pm : link
1st neck injuries have a nasty habit of getting worse over time. 2nd it is entirely possible his injury was misdiagnosed. Happens more than you think.
Archer- responding to what you said  
Dave on the UWS : 3/21/2024 3:11 pm : link
about impingement. That sounds right. I'll add that, when Jones said himself, he lost feeling in the hand and the arm felt "week", he was describing when the cervical nerves are being impinged upon.
They may or may NOT heal completely, but the whole area will be permanently weakened and he is exponentially at risk of re-injury (which could yield FAR more serious issues).

The "smartest" thing for him to do is retire and not risk it. Professional athletes are not wired that way, they ignore risk and act like they are indestructible. They have to be dragged into retirement and that may be the case here.

In any case, the Giants would be massive Fools to move forward with this kind of risk.
Dave on the UWS  
AROCK1000 : 3/21/2024 3:19 pm : link
In comment 16441733 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
about impingement. That sounds right. I'll add that, when Jones said himself, he lost feeling in the hand and the arm felt "week", he was describing when the cervical nerves are being impinged upon.
They may or may NOT heal completely, but the whole area will be permanently weakened and he is exponentially at risk of re-injury (which could yield FAR more serious issues).

The "smartest" thing for him to do is retire and not risk it. Professional athletes are not wired that way, they ignore risk and act like they are indestructible. They have to be dragged into retirement and that may be the case here.

In any case, the Giants would be massive Fools to move forward with this kind of risk.

I gotta give you props...you have been talking about DJs throwing for a while now....
I was told about Jones' neck  
Sy'56 : 3/21/2024 3:25 pm : link
the first time he hurt it

Quite frankly I was surprised that wasn't the end. The "one hit away" comment was thrown at me back then.
RE: If this is true  
Sy'56 : 3/21/2024 3:26 pm : link
In comment 16441312 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.


Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer
RE: Archer- responding to what you said  
bw in dc : 3/21/2024 3:29 pm : link
In comment 16441733 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
about impingement. That sounds right. I'll add that, when Jones said himself, he lost feeling in the hand and the arm felt "week", he was describing when the cervical nerves are being impinged upon.
They may or may NOT heal completely, but the whole area will be permanently weakened and he is exponentially at risk of re-injury (which could yield FAR more serious issues).

The "smartest" thing for him to do is retire and not risk it. Professional athletes are not wired that way, they ignore risk and act like they are indestructible. They have to be dragged into retirement and that may be the case here.

In any case, the Giants would be massive Fools to move forward with this kind of risk.


Good stuff. I agree with AROCK. You've been on this for months.

If the neck is indeed still a major risk, what is your opinion why the staff cleared Jones to play in Vegas?
RE: RE: If this is true  
M.S. : 3/21/2024 3:32 pm : link
In comment 16441751 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16441312 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


the Giants are in a precarious spot. QBs will go 1-2-3 with a possible trade up at 4 or 5.



Punt on QB until next year may be the only answer

On the one hand, passing on QB this draft delays the development of our future rookie QB by one year; on the other hand, a one year delay should ensure more pieces in place for when our rookie QB finally arrives thereby perhaps speeding up his development.

If that makes any sense.
and entrust the Franchise  
BigBlueCane : 3/21/2024 3:32 pm : link
to the Hoodie then.
RE: RE: RE: Matt M.  
3rdWAM : 3/21/2024 3:33 pm : link
In comment 16441411 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 16441333 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 16441297 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Wasn’t that Dole too?



Dole had a spinal injury from a shellburst which left him with little use of one arm.

I apologize and plead full ignorance. I thought the shoulder was from torture. Even still, is the spine injury from a shell similar to his neck injury?

McCain’s injuries were from being tortured by the VC while he was imprisoned in the Hanoi Hilton, his shoulders were wrecked thus he lost range of motion
RE: This is why you build a solid o line  
Blue The Dog : 3/21/2024 3:33 pm : link
In comment 16441697 kelly said:
Quote:
Before putting a rookie qb behind it.


This is also why you don't run head first into a LB when you are a QB
RE: Lying season  
SirLoinOfBeef : 3/21/2024 3:38 pm : link
In comment 16441642 mako J said:
Quote:
The more qbs drafted in the top 5 the better likelihood they get their alpha WR of choice. Hell, they may even end up being able to trade down and get multiple bites of the apple. The strengths of this draft line up well for the team’s needs.


And that's QB.
Is there risk he won’t pass a physical ever again?  
GiantsFan84 : 3/21/2024 3:38 pm : link
Because that would kick in the injury guarantee and screw the giants right?
Thanks Deep  
Thegratefulhead : 3/21/2024 3:42 pm : link
This pretty much confirms everything I felt was happening and why. It seemed obvious from the actions of the front office that everyone wanted Jones resigned. It wasn’t an ownership mandate, they BELIEVED in Jones and forged tight bonds. I have some professional medical experience, from the moment the second neck injury I moved to risk management mode and feel the Giants did too. The return and subsequent ACL seemed to solidify the need for the replacement to be on the team. The second neck I suspect is where it started. I don’t feelthe building held the first five games against Jones. More opponent and circumstance.


I still think my preference in Odunze and Penix. The inherent chemistry would go a long way and Penix arm will play in E Rutherford.
I guess we no longer have to worry about the injury Guarantee  
Rudy5757 : 3/21/2024 3:44 pm : link
sounds like we're paying it. So all the hand wringing about the injury guarantee is out the window. Cant cut him until he passes a physical.

So apparently we have no money even with the Dex restructure, tons of holes and no QB and probably a lot less draft picks if we draft a QB. Schoen is killing it.
This would explain the discrepancy from Schneider  
Blue Dream : 3/21/2024 3:45 pm : link
About what Drew Lock was told. Yes Jones is number 1 on the depth chart at the moment but the Giants think there is a good chance he will be on PUP or IR when the season starts.
Drafting Penix  
Sy'56 : 3/21/2024 3:47 pm : link
because your QB has durability concerns would be very....Giants
RE: Thanks Deep  
BleedBlue46 : 3/21/2024 3:48 pm : link
In comment 16441779 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
This pretty much confirms everything I felt was happening and why. It seemed obvious from the actions of the front office that everyone wanted Jones resigned. It wasn’t an ownership mandate, they BELIEVED in Jones and forged tight bonds. I have some professional medical experience, from the moment the second neck injury I moved to risk management mode and feel the Giants did too. The return and subsequent ACL seemed to solidify the need for the replacement to be on the team. The second neck I suspect is where it started. I don’t feelthe building held the first five games against Jones. More opponent and circumstance.


I still think my preference in Odunze and Penix. The inherent chemistry would go a long way and Penix arm will play in E Rutherford.


I'd love that but I think we would have to trade a future 1st to move up from 47 into rd 1 for Pennix, maybe he slides, but I see him going earlier than most pundits think.
RE: Drafting Penix  
Chris684 : 3/21/2024 3:50 pm : link
In comment 16441787 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
because your QB has durability concerns would be very....Giants


Sy how would you feel about this?

Williams
Daniels
Maye (to Minnesota after trade)
MHjr
Nabers/Odunze
McCarthy

More and more I have been thinking this is the likely outcome.
RE: Drafting Penix  
BleedBlue46 : 3/21/2024 3:51 pm : link
In comment 16441787 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
because your QB has durability concerns would be very....Giants


So true! Where do you foresee Nix and Pennix going in the draft, if you could give a range? I'm thinking 6-12 for Nix and 11-32 for Pennix.
RE: Drafting Penix  
Thegratefulhead : 3/21/2024 3:51 pm : link
In comment 16441787 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
because your QB has durability concerns would be very....Giants
obviously the medical would need to clear. The entire field would need to be defended with Hyatt and Odunze over the top with Wandale underneath. Penix can throw seeds to the outside.
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